2009.04.09 07:00 - Lounging in the Lair

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    A rolling restart was an opportunity to meet over at Adelene's ... come on in ... - CH

    Adelene Dawner: We could go to my place, I just remodeled it and there's plenty of seating...
    Adelene Dawner: I can announce it in group chat :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Cal, they are restarting the sim
    Adams Dubrovna: sounds good
    Caledonia Heron: really?
    Adelene Dawner: ok, I'll copy-and-paste a teleport link there in a minute
    Adams Dubrovna: could you tp us Adelene?
    Caledonia Heron: we can go to my place
    Caledonia Heron: oh wait, going to Adelene's?
    Second Life: Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
    Adams Dubrovna: I think she is tping us. Doesn;t mater to me
    Caledonia Heron: sorry, catching up
    Caledonia Heron: we'll go to the agreed place
    Adams Dubrovna: Sophia, the sim is restarting we are going to Adelene's
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok thank you
    Second Life: Your region will restart in 1 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.



    Teleport completed from
    Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
    Adelene Dawner: Hi again Adams, hi Sophia, Cal.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for letting me come here
    Adams Dubrovna: Thanks Adelene. Is this our first session in a lair?
    Adelene Dawner: Pretty sure, yeah :)
    Caledonia Heron: hi everyone :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Cal
    Adelene Dawner: I just remodeled a few days ago though, so even if we did you may not recognize it :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am still rezzing, but what I see....wow
    Adams Dubrovna: Very nice Ade :)
    Adelene Dawner: thanks ^.^
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am trying to remodel my place too :)
    Adelene Dawner: The cushions all have poses in them; they say 'cuddle' and 'snuggle' but they're really just sits. :)
    Adelene Dawner: (well.. for the most part)
    Caledonia Heron: hi SophiaSharon :)
    Adams Dubrovna: hehe
    Caledonia Heron: it's nice to meet you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i am not rezzed yet will just sit here haha
    Caledonia Heron: me too
    Caledonia Heron: kind of looking around, getting used to being here
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Caledonia Heron: you have a nice place Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: thanks :)



    SophiaSharon Larnia: i get freaked out building...the prims are slippery haha
    Adelene Dawner: hehehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: whoopsie
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lost.....hahah
    Adams Dubrovna: My place looks very home made
    Caledonia Heron: mine is home made :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Caledonia
    Adams Dubrovna: Mine is and very much looks it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so what does restart mean??
    Adams Dubrovna: It means if you stay you crash
    Caledonia Heron: home made in that I shopped for evey single thing myself :)
    Adams Dubrovna: they reboot the computer
    SophiaSharon Larnia: LOL caledonia!!!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh ok
    Caledonia Heron: yes, every sim (simulator) runs on a processor and they restart clusters of processors on any given machine in a big server farm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does that mean if my region starts i'll lose what i have built?
    Adams Dubrovna: no
    SophiaSharon Larnia: re-starts
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    Caledonia Heron: no, that's the beauty of a persistent synthetic environment.... it persists after a restart
    Caledonia Heron: it persists when you're not here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like memories
    Adams Dubrovna points to Cal and says "What she says"
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    Adelene Dawner: hehe



    Caledonia Heron: sort of like memories... except when we're not here other people are.... sitting in our chairs, talking, meeting .... it's kind of strange, like there's people living in our computers :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thats true
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Oh!! what is that on the wall to my left? I saw that on pab land and wondered
    Adams Dubrovna: For some reason I was bothered that people left the door open on my house
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes adams
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too :)
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, and when they don't wash the dishes!! my gosh, how rude!!!
    Adams Dubrovna: Storm put in an automatic closer for me
    Adams Dubrovna: hehe Cal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes really Caledonia!
    Adelene Dawner: Sophia, the blackboard looking thing? It's a blackboard. :)
    Squee: Without love, intelligence is dangerous. Without intelligence, love is not enough.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the symbols?
    Caledonia Heron: coffee refill
    SophiaSharon Larnia: cool adelene
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the spiral is my favorite shape
    Adelene Dawner gave you Blackboard Readme!.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: actually the double spiral, which you have drawn
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Caledonia Heron: ty Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: no problem
    Adelene Dawner: (Shameless plug: Yes, I scripted that, and yes, it's for sale. ^.^)
    Blackboard: I'm sorry, Caledonia Heron, your client is not compatable with this blackboard. Please use the current Linden Lab client for best results.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is nice
    Adelene Dawner: aww :(
    Caledonia Heron: hrmpfff, my client is not compatible
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what are the symbols to either side of it?
    Adelene Dawner: Sorry, Cal. Not much I can do if your client's not telling the board where exactly you're clicking it
    Caledonia Heron: gotcha



    Adelene Dawner: The symbols down the left side are the different drawing tools, the ones down the right are other functions.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i touched on on PaB land and hope I didn't disturb anything
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh! ok :))
    Caledonia Heron: no, you're fine
    Adelene Dawner: nah... though there really shouldn't be one there still... thought I got 'em all.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: there are two, spaced fairly close together
    SophiaSharon Larnia: inbetween the pavilion and the fire tower
    Adelene Dawner: hmm, thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out later. (They may belong to Pema or Storm, actually)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I thought perhaps they were a meditation tool



    Adelene Dawner: hehe, yeah, kinda ^.^
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Adelene Dawner: Hiya, Eliza :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Eliza :)
    Caledonia Heron: hey Eliza :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, wow
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal is looking around
    Adelene Dawner chuckles at Cal
    Caledonia Heron: I'm sitting like a lion :)
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm :)
    Caledonia Heron: rwaaar
    Adelene Dawner: hehehehehe
    No room to sit here, try another spot.
    Cogito Ultsch is Online
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice! Thanks
    Caledonia Heron: this is kind of interesting ... we have changed our setting and our discussion rhythym changes :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Adelene Dawner: I have set my bell hud to chatting mode, so we'll at least have some kind of bell...



    Caledonia Heron: what is new for anyone? as we nestle in Ade's lair?
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Ade :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have not gone in a few days am trying to figure out something and it is hard
    Adelene Dawner is considering taking a break from PaB, actually... just not as into it recently.
    Adelene Dawner: Oh, Sophia?
    Caledonia Heron: two interesting things, shall we go 1 at a time?
    Caledonia Heron: Sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i will try
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you first adelene i will type



    Eliza Madrigal: It is always odd to me to go to PaB, and see Three there, and you not, Ade : )
    Bell: ding
    Adelene Dawner: Well, not much to say... I think I was always in PaB for the neat ethics-ey discussions that came up from time to time, and if that's been happening recently I haven't seen it...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
    Adelene Dawner: They were always tangential to the real purpose of the group, so it's not like I can really request we start doing them more.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure you can, why not?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ethics seems a vital topic :)
    Adelene Dawner shrugs and rolls her eyes a little. "I got yelled at too often when I was younger for 'going off topic' to really be comfortable with that, I guess."
    Adelene Dawner: (Feel free to grab a pillow, Eliza - I suggest not one of the stripey ones.)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I know what you mean Adelene
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Caledonia Heron: there are a couple of levels on ethics; personal ethics as regards how we be with others, represent ourselves, and societal ethics ... I was thinking about that the other day ... how something like pab can impact society
    Adelene Dawner: *chuckles*
    Eliza Madrigal: I need to be a cat for this to seem okay in company
    Adelene Dawner nods at Cal
    Caledonia Heron: I was thinking about how strange the news has been, about people doing violence to one another and how is it that someone arrives at the conclusion that that is a satisfactory action
    Adelene Dawner: o.O
    Adams Dubrovna nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like it is justifiable
    Adelene Dawner: You can take the cushion where I was, Eliza :)
    Caledonia Heron: however "trendy" it may seem to be introspective there is a quality and value to society that is possible to propogate into "unlikely" places
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks, Ade :)



    Adelene Dawner: I think I come at 'society' from a very different angle than that... I tend to be much more interested in individuals, and how individuals and groups interact with each other.
    Eliza Madrigal: The value to introspection, is that when you bring attention and appreciation into daily life, it matters a great deal to the big picture whether we know that or not.
    Caledonia Heron: I see that SophiaSharon ... I take a kind of interconnected view
    Caledonia Heron: yes, Eliza I agree
    Eliza Madrigal: We can't see the ripples always, and that can be discouraging
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I agree with what you said
    Caledonia Heron: it can change the fabric of how things are conceived and acted upon
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, Hm.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "That explains it, I don't really even care about the ripples. That's not my reason for doing right."
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: The problem with ethics discussions is that by the time I begin to complete a sentence, the topic has changed :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes tis true Adams
    Caledonia Heron: LOL Admas
    Caledonia Heron: *Adams
    Adelene Dawner: ("because it makes sense" is the best reason I've been able to come up with)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Caledonia Heron: note to self, stop typing Admas
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Adams Dubrovna: It's OK we're all used to it :)



    Adelene Dawner: So what were you going to say, Adams?
    Adams Dubrovna: I hadn;t completed any of the thoughts yet but I feel the pain of some of the pople who get to the point of where they will do violence. I guess that is a form of compassion emerging
    Adelene Dawner nods
    Caledonia Heron: yes,
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that's interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: certainly
    Adams Dubrovna: and like Cal said, we wonder how it got that far
    Adams Dubrovna: their reasoning is very faulty
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i fear an experiment gone amok
    Eliza Madrigal: My mind often flashes to children who feel unheard and so break things
    Adams Dubrovna: I have lots of those Sophia :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but that is negative thinking maybe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: they feel like they don't exist
    Caledonia Heron: like one of the great tragedies where a character thinks there is a small set of finite options
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Cal
    Adelene Dawner: That's very close to something I've been working with, Cal...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: and there are many options there for them
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely...but it can be so difficult to see out of some moments and places
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that is it isnt it Eliza hmm
    Adelene Dawner: I use the word 'broken' to describe people, or peoples' reactions, sometimes, and I recently got asked to define it... it took some work, but what I came up with is 'impaired ability to make good decisions because of interference from previously learned (and now dysfunctional) reactions'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good description
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Adelene
    Eliza Madrigal: stuck in a groove, Adelene? like a chipped record?



    Adams Dubrovna: Without introspection we are all victims of some of the things we have been taught
    Adelene Dawner: The nasty thing is, the previously learned reactions were almost always the best reaction at the point where they were learned...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Bell: ding
    Adelene Dawner: Being in situations where there really *are* not very many options, or no good ones that work, can have far reaching effects.
    Adams Dubrovna: And Adelene you expand that to things we taught ourselves
    Eliza Madrigal: this is true...
    Adams Dubrovna: That is interesting I hadn;t thought much about that
    Vic Michalak is Online
    Adelene Dawner: I don't think it's useful to try to distinguish between 'things we taught ourselves' and 'things others taught us'... it's not black and white, for one, and there also seems to be little use in dinstinguishing the two.
    Adams Dubrovna: Oh, I disagree
    Adams Dubrovna: It helps to sort them out



    Eliza Madrigal: Years ago I thought I had to kill off parts of myself to move on in life...had to sort of shut doors permanently. It has been refreshing to begin to open the doors and find the people I was alive. Is that getting too abstract? lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think we confuse them ourselves
    Caledonia Heron: no, it's very personal :)
    Adelene Dawner chuckles "I've always been an independent cuss, you can't teach me anything (but you can show me stuff and let me learn it myself) so I may be a bit of a special case."
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, it becomes very personal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no Eliza I know what you mean, i am there now myself
    Adelene Dawner: Eliza: Exactly.
    Caledonia Heron: it's interesting to meet yourself again :)
    Adelene Dawner: Or for the first time!



    Eliza Madrigal: :) And think "I rejected her like everyone else"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, thats the hardest part, you do that long enough and you dont know who that is
    Caledonia Heron: maybe didn't understand her :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And if you can do it with yourself, can extend that to others
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: So...that's where the rubber and road meet Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: I've just in the last few months noticed that I have a bit of a dominant personality... I had no *clue* of that. 100% new information. :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Caledonia Heron: a kind of compassion, extended to yourself ... maybe harder to be compassionate to yourself sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: Ade :)
    Adelene Dawner: What you described is the fundamental bit of the process of fixing 'brokenness', Eliza.
    Adams Dubrovna: Wow, much stuff there...yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Caledonia, true
    Adams Dubrovna: but we can drop all those things and look past them
    Caledonia Heron: yes, see them, drop them...
    Eliza Madrigal: And realize we weren't broken but saw ourselves that way?
    Adelene Dawner: Hard to drop something if you don't know you're carrying it :)
    Adams Dubrovna: they are there but we see they are just a story
    Eliza Madrigal: ahh
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Adelene, we need to see them fitrst
    Caledonia Heron: a good argument to drop everything Ade :)



    Adelene Dawner sticks her toungue out at Adams, don't change scale on me here ;)
    Caledonia Heron: gack, bad typing today
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes when I'm overloaded with the "thoughts and energy" here my typing is horrible!!
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Adams Dubrovna has found plenty of things lurking to try and drop :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: has just started and tired already
    Eliza Madrigal: lurking...love that image...something around the corner in the dark
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, hah
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Eliza :)
    Adams Dubrovna: It gets easier as we go along
    Adams Dubrovna: we spend less time worrying about them
    Adams Dubrovna: Oh. here's another one
    Eliza Madrigal: We have a wider view see around corners
    Adelene Dawner: [7:50] Eliza Madrigal: And realize we weren't broken but saw ourselves that way? <-- yes and no... 'broken' by the definition I used is an observable thing that does exist (at least within the story)... but it's not the same as, to extend the metaphor, 'shattered', unable to move forward and grow and function.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm Ade. So broken and moving forward?
    Adelene Dawner: Yep :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: the broken is the story
    Adams Dubrovna: we are not broken
    Adams Dubrovna: we just feel broken
    Adelene Dawner: 'broken' doesn't make sense outside the story; the things it's built on are story things.
    Adams Dubrovna: sometimes hard to see that
    Caledonia Heron: nothing is broken - I thought broken might be the right descriptor once - nothing is broken .... it's more mismatched expectations, misconceptions, stories we tell ourselves
    Adelene Dawner: But it's still interesting in the context of the story. To me, at least.
    Caledonia Heron: everything is just how it is



    Adams Dubrovna: I love my stories most of the time :)
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so too, yes...seeing at both places at once...working from within and without
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Adams
    Squee: You are what you love - not what loves you.
    Caledonia Heron: and you get what you get .... which can totally suck or be over the moon fanfreakin'tastic
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Caledonia Heron: or somewhere in the middle :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: yes

    Adelene Dawner: Have you found some words yet, Sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema said "It is so easy to fall into the trap of intellectual analysis".... the purpose of Kira Institute is scientific... so its hard to align that with the way I think of PaB...loosely tagging on to what Adelene said earlier
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes...think many of us go in circles there
    Caledonia Heron: no need to align
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a bit of a dichotomy
    Eliza Madrigal: The scientific approach is the "experience" in this context
    Adams Dubrovna: Pema stresses the explorations I think
    Caledonia Heron: each one is the thing they are and there is a point of intersect
    Adams Dubrovna: What do I know, I have never been close to being a scientist?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me either
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, what *can* you see at the point of intersections?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or should you?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or in the gaps?
    Caledonia Heron: maybe think more about the science process ... where you can have a hypothesis, a model and you can walk around it, look at it's facets, see if it's valid
    Bell: ding
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes so very hard to do and demands that i write it down, and it is different for me
    Caledonia Heron: a process to perhaps investigate being ... the nature of reality



    Adams Dubrovna: We can do little experiements and shake up our way of looking at things
    Adams Dubrovna: at looking at ourselves
    Caledonia Heron: yes Adams, experiment with perspective to see what we can know about being, about reality
    Adelene Dawner: I've been reading about rationalism recently, and there are strong parallels to all of this... rationalism is 'going about it the best way'; the scientific method is one useful method of that, fixing brokenness so you can react better is another. But notice that I didn't define 'it'....
    Caledonia Heron: yes, a methodology
    Adelene Dawner: Yep
    Eliza Madrigal: experiments/explorations together is a very dynamic and fun way of checking ourselves
    Adams Dubrovna: The pain often represents a struggle, and the struggle helps us to see more so often the pain is a good thing
    Adelene Dawner: And the 'it'... which varies widely from person to person... is a fundamental part of the story.
    Caledonia Heron: hard to know when you're in the pain part Adams :)
    Eliza Madrigal: wow...yes, "pain is a good thing" can be a leap!
    Caledonia Heron: for me anyway :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, we can learn to "appreciate" the pain Eliza as a presence of Being
    Eliza Madrigal: This has implications for mind/body medicine also
    Caledonia Heron: I was telling Zorn that,... I see it, the pain, ... and it sucks
    Caledonia Heron: that's what you get ... the seeing, the pain, and then... whatever is next, that's what you get
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Cal. But each time around it seems we spend less time focusing on the pain
    Eliza Madrigal: Or the pain is just one part, where as it had been the whole thing
    Eliza Madrigal: perspective
    Caledonia Heron: for me the pain is just as real, as intense but the seeing is better, faster .... maybe that's where I can apply your "we spend less time" part Adams
    Adams Dubrovna: the pain is always real
    Caledonia Heron: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: until we decide to drop it and see
    Eliza Madrigal: it sounds so odd ...being friendly toward the pain
    Adams Dubrovna: Sort of like taking a vacation from the pain
    SophiaSharon Larnia: accepting it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking more like taking a vacation WITH the pain-hah
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I think we drop it, drop being inside the pain to see it, the pain can still be there, we do not have to be at the affect of pain yet we can feel it
    Adams Dubrovna: we can see the pain is part of the story. It is in the present, past and future
    Caledonia Heron: yes



    Adams Dubrovna: there is no pain in the timelessness, eternal time
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm..just a string in the story
    Caledonia Heron: no pain in no-time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and the story is...this life in $D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: 4D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is that it
    Adams Dubrovna: not 4D
    Caledonia Heron: there is nothing in no-time
    Adams Dubrovna: that is something else
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    Adams Dubrovna: eternal time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant 3D influenced by time, i am not using that correctly
    Adams Dubrovna: For me timelessness is what connects me to very other human being who ever lived or will live
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: it is what I have in common with humanity
    Eliza Madrigal: back to that tapestry :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes, we all be in that ... when I can access that space I intrinsically have that experience
    Adams Dubrovna: and part of humanity is that our stories often give us pain
    Adams Dubrovna: so I connect to your pain
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but i see that our consciousness in these bodies are beyond this, one, finite story
    Eliza Madrigal: Which is ethics, Ade?
    Adams Dubrovna: Then of course there is Love :)
    Adelene Dawner: Hmm, Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Connecting, not turning away from others in pain...ethics
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Sophia
    Caledonia Heron: which overwhelms me at this moment and I want to apologize for contributing that:)
    Caledonia Heron: read out of order my statement makes no sense :)
    Adams Dubrovna: please don;t apologize...it is beautiful Cal :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Cal it is
    Adelene Dawner: Yep, that's part of that. That's the bit I'm already decent at, though.. mostly I like to figure out how I can get *better*.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, lovely
    Caledonia Heron: I think you may understand



    Eliza Madrigal: I've been noticing that I laugh louder lately...just throwing that out there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it makes me a "better" parent
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...really is those little shifts that have huge reverberations
    Adams Dubrovna: I am told I am a bit calmer
    Adelene Dawner nods at Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: More settled, Adams?
    Bell: ding
    Caledonia Heron: gosh, I have to go y'all :)
    Adelene Dawner: Cya, Cal :)
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Cal, nice discussion :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Caledonia. Nice talking this morning
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Take Care Caledonia
    Adams Dubrovna: I am not sure settled is the word Eliza :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes, thank you all ... thanks for the hospitality Adelene :)

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