2009.04.09 07:00 - Lounging in the Lair

A rolling restart was an opportunity to meet over at Adelene's ... come on in ... - CH

Adelene Dawner: We could go to my place, I just remodeled it and there's plenty of seating...
Adelene Dawner: I can announce it in group chat :)
Adams Dubrovna: Cal, they are restarting the sim
Adams Dubrovna: sounds good
Caledonia Heron: really?
Adelene Dawner: ok, I'll copy-and-paste a teleport link there in a minute
Adams Dubrovna: could you tp us Adelene?
Caledonia Heron: we can go to my place
Caledonia Heron: oh wait, going to Adelene's?
Second Life: Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
Adams Dubrovna: I think she is tping us. Doesn;t mater to me
Caledonia Heron: sorry, catching up
Caledonia Heron: we'll go to the agreed place
Adams Dubrovna: Sophia, the sim is restarting we are going to Adelene's
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok thank you
Second Life: Your region will restart in 1 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.

   

Teleport completed from
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bieup/62/35/104
Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
Connected
Adelene Dawner: Hi again Adams, hi Sophia, Cal.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for letting me come here
Adams Dubrovna: Thanks Adelene. Is this our first session in a lair?
Adelene Dawner: Pretty sure, yeah :)
Caledonia Heron: hi everyone :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Cal
Adelene Dawner: I just remodeled a few days ago though, so even if we did you may not recognize it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I am still rezzing, but what I see....wow
Adams Dubrovna: Very nice Ade :)
Adelene Dawner: thanks ^.^
SophiaSharon Larnia: I am trying to remodel my place too :)
Adelene Dawner: The cushions all have poses in them; they say 'cuddle' and 'snuggle' but they're really just sits. :)
Adelene Dawner: (well.. for the most part)
Caledonia Heron: hi SophiaSharon :)
Adams Dubrovna: hehe
Caledonia Heron: it's nice to meet you
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI!
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: i am not rezzed yet will just sit here haha
Caledonia Heron: me too
Caledonia Heron: kind of looking around, getting used to being here
Adelene Dawner nods.
Caledonia Heron: you have a nice place Adelene :)
Adelene Dawner: thanks :)

   

SophiaSharon Larnia: i get freaked out building...the prims are slippery haha
Adelene Dawner: hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoopsie
SophiaSharon Larnia: lost.....hahah
Adams Dubrovna: My place looks very home made
Caledonia Heron: mine is home made :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Caledonia
Adams Dubrovna: Mine is and very much looks it
SophiaSharon Larnia: so what does restart mean??
Adams Dubrovna: It means if you stay you crash
Caledonia Heron: home made in that I shopped for evey single thing myself :)
Adams Dubrovna: they reboot the computer
SophiaSharon Larnia: LOL caledonia!!!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh ok
Caledonia Heron: yes, every sim (simulator) runs on a processor and they restart clusters of processors on any given machine in a big server farm
SophiaSharon Larnia: does that mean if my region starts i'll lose what i have built?
Adams Dubrovna: no
SophiaSharon Larnia: re-starts
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Caledonia Heron: no, that's the beauty of a persistent synthetic environment.... it persists after a restart
Caledonia Heron: it persists when you're not here
SophiaSharon Larnia: like memories
Adams Dubrovna points to Cal and says "What she says"
Adams Dubrovna: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Adelene Dawner: hehe

   

Caledonia Heron: sort of like memories... except when we're not here other people are.... sitting in our chairs, talking, meeting .... it's kind of strange, like there's people living in our computers :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thats true
Adams Dubrovna: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Oh!! what is that on the wall to my left? I saw that on pab land and wondered
Adams Dubrovna: For some reason I was bothered that people left the door open on my house
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes adams
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too :)
Caledonia Heron: yeah, and when they don't wash the dishes!! my gosh, how rude!!!
Adams Dubrovna: Storm put in an automatic closer for me
Adams Dubrovna: hehe Cal
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes really Caledonia!
Adelene Dawner: Sophia, the blackboard looking thing? It's a blackboard. :)
Squee: Without love, intelligence is dangerous. Without intelligence, love is not enough.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: the symbols?
Caledonia Heron: coffee refill
SophiaSharon Larnia: cool adelene
SophiaSharon Larnia: the spiral is my favorite shape
Adelene Dawner gave you Blackboard Readme!.
SophiaSharon Larnia: actually the double spiral, which you have drawn
Adelene Dawner: :)
Caledonia Heron: ty Adelene
Adelene Dawner: no problem
Adelene Dawner: (Shameless plug: Yes, I scripted that, and yes, it's for sale. ^.^)
Blackboard: I'm sorry, Caledonia Heron, your client is not compatable with this blackboard. Please use the current Linden Lab client for best results.
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is nice
Adelene Dawner: aww :(
Caledonia Heron: hrmpfff, my client is not compatible
Adams Dubrovna: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what are the symbols to either side of it?
Adelene Dawner: Sorry, Cal. Not much I can do if your client's not telling the board where exactly you're clicking it
Caledonia Heron: gotcha

   

Adelene Dawner: The symbols down the left side are the different drawing tools, the ones down the right are other functions.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i touched on on PaB land and hope I didn't disturb anything
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh! ok :))
Caledonia Heron: no, you're fine
Adelene Dawner: nah... though there really shouldn't be one there still... thought I got 'em all.
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are two, spaced fairly close together
SophiaSharon Larnia: inbetween the pavilion and the fire tower
Adelene Dawner: hmm, thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out later. (They may belong to Pema or Storm, actually)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I thought perhaps they were a meditation tool

   

Adelene Dawner: hehe, yeah, kinda ^.^
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Adelene Dawner: Hiya, Eliza :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Eliza :)
Caledonia Heron: hey Eliza :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hello :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, wow
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Eliza Madrigal is looking around
Adelene Dawner chuckles at Cal
Caledonia Heron: I'm sitting like a lion :)
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm :)
Caledonia Heron: rwaaar
Adelene Dawner: hehehehehe
No room to sit here, try another spot.
Cogito Ultsch is Online
Eliza Madrigal: Nice! Thanks
Caledonia Heron: this is kind of interesting ... we have changed our setting and our discussion rhythym changes :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Adelene Dawner: I have set my bell hud to chatting mode, so we'll at least have some kind of bell...

   

Caledonia Heron: what is new for anyone? as we nestle in Ade's lair?
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Ade :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have not gone in a few days am trying to figure out something and it is hard
Adelene Dawner is considering taking a break from PaB, actually... just not as into it recently.
Adelene Dawner: Oh, Sophia?
Caledonia Heron: two interesting things, shall we go 1 at a time?
Caledonia Heron: Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i will try
SophiaSharon Larnia: you first adelene i will type

   

Eliza Madrigal: It is always odd to me to go to PaB, and see Three there, and you not, Ade : )
Bell: ding
Adelene Dawner: Well, not much to say... I think I was always in PaB for the neat ethics-ey discussions that came up from time to time, and if that's been happening recently I haven't seen it...
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
Adelene Dawner: They were always tangential to the real purpose of the group, so it's not like I can really request we start doing them more.
Eliza Madrigal: Sure you can, why not?
Eliza Madrigal: Ethics seems a vital topic :)
Adelene Dawner shrugs and rolls her eyes a little. "I got yelled at too often when I was younger for 'going off topic' to really be comfortable with that, I guess."
Adelene Dawner: (Feel free to grab a pillow, Eliza - I suggest not one of the stripey ones.)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I know what you mean Adelene
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Caledonia Heron: there are a couple of levels on ethics; personal ethics as regards how we be with others, represent ourselves, and societal ethics ... I was thinking about that the other day ... how something like pab can impact society
Adelene Dawner: *chuckles*
Eliza Madrigal: I need to be a cat for this to seem okay in company
Adelene Dawner nods at Cal
Caledonia Heron: I was thinking about how strange the news has been, about people doing violence to one another and how is it that someone arrives at the conclusion that that is a satisfactory action
Adelene Dawner: o.O
Adams Dubrovna nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: like it is justifiable
Adelene Dawner: You can take the cushion where I was, Eliza :)
Caledonia Heron: however "trendy" it may seem to be introspective there is a quality and value to society that is possible to propogate into "unlikely" places
Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks, Ade :)

   

Adelene Dawner: I think I come at 'society' from a very different angle than that... I tend to be much more interested in individuals, and how individuals and groups interact with each other.
Eliza Madrigal: The value to introspection, is that when you bring attention and appreciation into daily life, it matters a great deal to the big picture whether we know that or not.
Caledonia Heron: I see that SophiaSharon ... I take a kind of interconnected view
Caledonia Heron: yes, Eliza I agree
Eliza Madrigal: We can't see the ripples always, and that can be discouraging
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I agree with what you said
Caledonia Heron: it can change the fabric of how things are conceived and acted upon
Eliza Madrigal: yes, Hm.
Adelene Dawner chuckles. "That explains it, I don't really even care about the ripples. That's not my reason for doing right."
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Adams Dubrovna: The problem with ethics discussions is that by the time I begin to complete a sentence, the topic has changed :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes tis true Adams
Caledonia Heron: LOL Admas
Caledonia Heron: *Adams
Adelene Dawner: ("because it makes sense" is the best reason I've been able to come up with)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Caledonia Heron: note to self, stop typing Admas
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Adams Dubrovna: It's OK we're all used to it :)

   

Adelene Dawner: So what were you going to say, Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: I hadn;t completed any of the thoughts yet but I feel the pain of some of the pople who get to the point of where they will do violence. I guess that is a form of compassion emerging
Adelene Dawner nods
Caledonia Heron: yes,
SophiaSharon Larnia: that's interesting
Eliza Madrigal: certainly
Adams Dubrovna: and like Cal said, we wonder how it got that far
Adams Dubrovna: their reasoning is very faulty
SophiaSharon Larnia: i fear an experiment gone amok
Eliza Madrigal: My mind often flashes to children who feel unheard and so break things
Adams Dubrovna: I have lots of those Sophia :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: but that is negative thinking maybe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: they feel like they don't exist
Caledonia Heron: like one of the great tragedies where a character thinks there is a small set of finite options
Adams Dubrovna: yes Cal
Adelene Dawner: That's very close to something I've been working with, Cal...
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Adams Dubrovna: and there are many options there for them
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely...but it can be so difficult to see out of some moments and places
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that is it isnt it Eliza hmm
Adelene Dawner: I use the word 'broken' to describe people, or peoples' reactions, sometimes, and I recently got asked to define it... it took some work, but what I came up with is 'impaired ability to make good decisions because of interference from previously learned (and now dysfunctional) reactions'
SophiaSharon Larnia: good description
Adams Dubrovna: yes Adelene
Eliza Madrigal: stuck in a groove, Adelene? like a chipped record?

   

Adams Dubrovna: Without introspection we are all victims of some of the things we have been taught
Adelene Dawner: The nasty thing is, the previously learned reactions were almost always the best reaction at the point where they were learned...
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Bell: ding
Adelene Dawner: Being in situations where there really *are* not very many options, or no good ones that work, can have far reaching effects.
Adams Dubrovna: And Adelene you expand that to things we taught ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: this is true...
Adams Dubrovna: That is interesting I hadn;t thought much about that
Vic Michalak is Online
Adelene Dawner: I don't think it's useful to try to distinguish between 'things we taught ourselves' and 'things others taught us'... it's not black and white, for one, and there also seems to be little use in dinstinguishing the two.
Adams Dubrovna: Oh, I disagree
Adams Dubrovna: It helps to sort them out

   

Eliza Madrigal: Years ago I thought I had to kill off parts of myself to move on in life...had to sort of shut doors permanently. It has been refreshing to begin to open the doors and find the people I was alive. Is that getting too abstract? lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think we confuse them ourselves
Caledonia Heron: no, it's very personal :)
Adelene Dawner chuckles "I've always been an independent cuss, you can't teach me anything (but you can show me stuff and let me learn it myself) so I may be a bit of a special case."
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, it becomes very personal
SophiaSharon Larnia: no Eliza I know what you mean, i am there now myself
Adelene Dawner: Eliza: Exactly.
Caledonia Heron: it's interesting to meet yourself again :)
Adelene Dawner: Or for the first time!

   

Eliza Madrigal: :) And think "I rejected her like everyone else"
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, thats the hardest part, you do that long enough and you dont know who that is
Caledonia Heron: maybe didn't understand her :)
Eliza Madrigal: And if you can do it with yourself, can extend that to others
Eliza Madrigal: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: So...that's where the rubber and road meet Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: I've just in the last few months noticed that I have a bit of a dominant personality... I had no *clue* of that. 100% new information. :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Caledonia Heron: a kind of compassion, extended to yourself ... maybe harder to be compassionate to yourself sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: Ade :)
Adelene Dawner: What you described is the fundamental bit of the process of fixing 'brokenness', Eliza.
Adams Dubrovna: Wow, much stuff there...yes
Eliza Madrigal: Caledonia, true
Adams Dubrovna: but we can drop all those things and look past them
Caledonia Heron: yes, see them, drop them...
Eliza Madrigal: And realize we weren't broken but saw ourselves that way?
Adelene Dawner: Hard to drop something if you don't know you're carrying it :)
Adams Dubrovna: they are there but we see they are just a story
Eliza Madrigal: ahh
Adams Dubrovna: yes Adelene, we need to see them fitrst
Caledonia Heron: a good argument to drop everything Ade :)

   

Adelene Dawner sticks her toungue out at Adams, don't change scale on me here ;)
Caledonia Heron: gack, bad typing today
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes when I'm overloaded with the "thoughts and energy" here my typing is horrible!!
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adams Dubrovna has found plenty of things lurking to try and drop :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: has just started and tired already
Eliza Madrigal: lurking...love that image...something around the corner in the dark
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, hah
Adams Dubrovna: yes Eliza :)
Adams Dubrovna: It gets easier as we go along
Adams Dubrovna: we spend less time worrying about them
Adams Dubrovna: Oh. here's another one
Eliza Madrigal: We have a wider view see around corners
Adelene Dawner: [7:50] Eliza Madrigal: And realize we weren't broken but saw ourselves that way? <-- yes and no... 'broken' by the definition I used is an observable thing that does exist (at least within the story)... but it's not the same as, to extend the metaphor, 'shattered', unable to move forward and grow and function.
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm Ade. So broken and moving forward?
Adelene Dawner: Yep :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Dubrovna: the broken is the story
Adams Dubrovna: we are not broken
Adams Dubrovna: we just feel broken
Adelene Dawner: 'broken' doesn't make sense outside the story; the things it's built on are story things.
Adams Dubrovna: sometimes hard to see that
Caledonia Heron: nothing is broken - I thought broken might be the right descriptor once - nothing is broken .... it's more mismatched expectations, misconceptions, stories we tell ourselves
Adelene Dawner: But it's still interesting in the context of the story. To me, at least.
Caledonia Heron: everything is just how it is

   

Adams Dubrovna: I love my stories most of the time :)
Adelene Dawner: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think so too, yes...seeing at both places at once...working from within and without
Eliza Madrigal: :) Adams
Squee: You are what you love - not what loves you.
Caledonia Heron: and you get what you get .... which can totally suck or be over the moon fanfreakin'tastic
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Caledonia Heron: or somewhere in the middle :)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: yes

Adelene Dawner: Have you found some words yet, Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema said "It is so easy to fall into the trap of intellectual analysis".... the purpose of Kira Institute is scientific... so its hard to align that with the way I think of PaB...loosely tagging on to what Adelene said earlier
Eliza Madrigal: Yes...think many of us go in circles there
Caledonia Heron: no need to align
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: a bit of a dichotomy
Eliza Madrigal: The scientific approach is the "experience" in this context
Adams Dubrovna: Pema stresses the explorations I think
Caledonia Heron: each one is the thing they are and there is a point of intersect
Adams Dubrovna: What do I know, I have never been close to being a scientist?
SophiaSharon Larnia: me either
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, what *can* you see at the point of intersections?
Eliza Madrigal: Or should you?
Eliza Madrigal: Or in the gaps?
Caledonia Heron: maybe think more about the science process ... where you can have a hypothesis, a model and you can walk around it, look at it's facets, see if it's valid
Bell: ding
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes so very hard to do and demands that i write it down, and it is different for me
Caledonia Heron: a process to perhaps investigate being ... the nature of reality

   

Adams Dubrovna: We can do little experiements and shake up our way of looking at things
Adams Dubrovna: at looking at ourselves
Caledonia Heron: yes Adams, experiment with perspective to see what we can know about being, about reality
Adelene Dawner: I've been reading about rationalism recently, and there are strong parallels to all of this... rationalism is 'going about it the best way'; the scientific method is one useful method of that, fixing brokenness so you can react better is another. But notice that I didn't define 'it'....
Caledonia Heron: yes, a methodology
Adelene Dawner: Yep
Eliza Madrigal: experiments/explorations together is a very dynamic and fun way of checking ourselves
Adams Dubrovna: The pain often represents a struggle, and the struggle helps us to see more so often the pain is a good thing
Adelene Dawner: And the 'it'... which varies widely from person to person... is a fundamental part of the story.
Caledonia Heron: hard to know when you're in the pain part Adams :)
Eliza Madrigal: wow...yes, "pain is a good thing" can be a leap!
Caledonia Heron: for me anyway :)
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, we can learn to "appreciate" the pain Eliza as a presence of Being
Eliza Madrigal: This has implications for mind/body medicine also
Caledonia Heron: I was telling Zorn that,... I see it, the pain, ... and it sucks
Caledonia Heron: that's what you get ... the seeing, the pain, and then... whatever is next, that's what you get
Adams Dubrovna: yes Cal. But each time around it seems we spend less time focusing on the pain
Eliza Madrigal: Or the pain is just one part, where as it had been the whole thing
Eliza Madrigal: perspective
Caledonia Heron: for me the pain is just as real, as intense but the seeing is better, faster .... maybe that's where I can apply your "we spend less time" part Adams
Adams Dubrovna: the pain is always real
Caledonia Heron: yes
Adams Dubrovna: until we decide to drop it and see
Eliza Madrigal: it sounds so odd ...being friendly toward the pain
Adams Dubrovna: Sort of like taking a vacation from the pain
SophiaSharon Larnia: accepting it
SophiaSharon Larnia: no
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking more like taking a vacation WITH the pain-hah
Caledonia Heron: yes, I think we drop it, drop being inside the pain to see it, the pain can still be there, we do not have to be at the affect of pain yet we can feel it
Adams Dubrovna: we can see the pain is part of the story. It is in the present, past and future
Caledonia Heron: yes

   

Adams Dubrovna: there is no pain in the timelessness, eternal time
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm..just a string in the story
Caledonia Heron: no pain in no-time
SophiaSharon Larnia: and the story is...this life in $D
SophiaSharon Larnia: 4D
SophiaSharon Larnia: is that it
Adams Dubrovna: not 4D
Caledonia Heron: there is nothing in no-time
Adams Dubrovna: that is something else
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Adams Dubrovna: eternal time
SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant 3D influenced by time, i am not using that correctly
Adams Dubrovna: For me timelessness is what connects me to very other human being who ever lived or will live
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Adams Dubrovna: it is what I have in common with humanity
Eliza Madrigal: back to that tapestry :)
Caledonia Heron: yes, we all be in that ... when I can access that space I intrinsically have that experience
Adams Dubrovna: and part of humanity is that our stories often give us pain
Adams Dubrovna: so I connect to your pain
Eliza Madrigal: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: but i see that our consciousness in these bodies are beyond this, one, finite story
Eliza Madrigal: Which is ethics, Ade?
Adams Dubrovna: Then of course there is Love :)
Adelene Dawner: Hmm, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Connecting, not turning away from others in pain...ethics
Adams Dubrovna: yes Sophia
Caledonia Heron: which overwhelms me at this moment and I want to apologize for contributing that:)
Caledonia Heron: read out of order my statement makes no sense :)
Adams Dubrovna: please don;t apologize...it is beautiful Cal :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Cal it is
Adelene Dawner: Yep, that's part of that. That's the bit I'm already decent at, though.. mostly I like to figure out how I can get *better*.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, lovely
Caledonia Heron: I think you may understand

   

Eliza Madrigal: I've been noticing that I laugh louder lately...just throwing that out there
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it makes me a "better" parent
Adams Dubrovna: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha...really is those little shifts that have huge reverberations
Adams Dubrovna: I am told I am a bit calmer
Adelene Dawner nods at Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: More settled, Adams?
Bell: ding
Caledonia Heron: gosh, I have to go y'all :)
Adelene Dawner: Cya, Cal :)
Adams Dubrovna: bye Cal, nice discussion :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Caledonia. Nice talking this morning
SophiaSharon Larnia: Take Care Caledonia
Adams Dubrovna: I am not sure settled is the word Eliza :)
Caledonia Heron: yes, thank you all ... thanks for the hospitality Adelene :)