2009.04.22 13:00 - (Limitation of words)

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    Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Qt
    Qt Core: hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi genesis
    Qt Core: hi genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Qt and Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tenzin
    Qt Core: hi Tenzin
    Tenzin Xue takes a most humble bow
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Tenzin
    Tenzin Xue: hi
    genesis Zhangsun: anyone have any topics of interest?
    Tenzin Xue: i'm new. i don't really know whats going on.
    Pila Mulligan: genesis, would oyu like to introduce tenzin to PaB?
    genesis Zhangsun: ah sure
    genesis Zhangsun: So PaB is a group exploration of reality
    genesis Zhangsun: we have discussions here four times a day 7am,1pm,7pm,1am
    Tenzin Xue: i see
    Tenzin Xue: what do you discuss?
    genesis Zhangsun: all of our transcripts are recorded and put up on our wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    genesis Zhangsun: would you object to having your name and comments included?
    Tenzin Xue: no
    Tenzin Xue: no objections
    Pila Mulligan: hi aurel
    genesis Zhangsun: our practice as a group centers around a simple nine second practice
    aurel Miles: hi Pila, Gen, Tenzin and QT
    Qt Core: hi aurel
    Tenzin Xue: :D
    genesis Zhangsun: here during the meetings we observe 90 seconds
    genesis Zhangsun: every fifteen minutes
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Aurel I am giving Tenzin a bit of backgroun
    aurel Miles: that's nice
    genesis Zhangsun: the idea is about integration
    aurel Miles: i never had a formal introduction so i am glad to hear it
    genesis Zhangsun: to carry a sense of mindfulness throughout the day
    genesis Zhangsun: not just during a sitting meditation
    genesis Zhangsun: there are various other formulations with regards to integration and mindfulness
    Tenzin Xue: i see
    genesis Zhangsun: which we practice, these other forumulations emphasize appreciation
    genesis Zhangsun: the idea is to "play as being"
    genesis Zhangsun: as the group is called
    Pila Mulligan: hi steve (... genesis is introducing Tenxin to PaB)
    genesis Zhangsun: to appreciate the play of life, the dance of being
    aurel Miles: hi steve
    genesis Zhangsun: HI Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi
    genesis Zhangsun: with the idea that this play if enogh
    genesis Zhangsun: *enough
    genesis Zhangsun: *is enough
    genesis Zhangsun: recently it has been formulated as "the illusion of illusion"
    genesis Zhangsun: we often have the feeling that there is something to break through, an illusion to break to get to reality
    genesis Zhangsun: but the idea with is to see even this thinking as a sort of illusion
    Pila Mulligan: hi Fefonz
    genesis Zhangsun: HI Fefonz
    Pila Mulligan: www.kira.org has even more information and events, Tenzin :)
    Tenzin Xue: hai
    Qt Core: hi Fefonz
    Tenzin Xue: i mean yes
    Fefonz Quan: Hello all :)
    Tenzin Xue: sorry, japanese
    aurel Miles: hello fefonz
    genesis Zhangsun: Tenzin would you like to say something about your orientation?
    Tenzin Xue: I really like the idea of mindfullness every 15 minutes
    Tenzin Xue: its a very nice idea
    Tenzin Xue: It's good for people who are very busy.
    Tenzin Xue: lol
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Tenzin Xue: so quiet.
    Tenzin Xue: ...
    Fefonz Quan: also good for people who are not very busy but very wonder-minded
    Tenzin Xue: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: catch the monkey by the tail every fifteen minutes as I think of it
    Tenzin Xue: very nice metaphor
    genesis Zhangsun: busy and wandering monkey
    Pila Mulligan: sometimes we get so absorbed with mindfulness we just sit around here in quiet :)
    Tenzin Xue: no kidding haha
    Tenzin Xue: what do you talk about most of the time?
    Pila Mulligan: sometimes we say a lot :)
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, dreams have been apopular subject lately
    genesis Zhangsun: sometimes we compare notes about how various explorations are going
    genesis Zhangsun: or themes like Pila mentioned
    Tenzin Xue: someone might wanna claim this session as the guardian lol
    genesis Zhangsun: oops thanks
    genesis Zhangsun: I am interested in discussing the theme of illusion of illusion
    genesis Zhangsun: any thoughts on this topic?
    Fefonz Quan: go on.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: is sounds like it could be the illusion of anything, including illusion
    Pila Mulligan: reminds me or mirrors facing each opther
    Fefonz Quan: we might start by explaning what it means...
    genesis Zhangsun: yes so what I think it means is that we have some notion that we need to break through an illusion to get to reality
    genesis Zhangsun: but the illusions themeselves are an illusion
    Tenzin Xue: but what is reality, and why are we trying to get to it?
    Tenzin Xue: curiousity?
    genesis Zhangsun: there really is no breaking, no progression, no realization, no time, no change
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I think curiosity is in a way playful investigation
    Pila Mulligan: that's where the ice cream is
    Fefonz Quan: do you feel there is no change Gen?
    Tenzin Xue: everything is change
    stevenaia Michinaga: I agree that reality can be as much an illusion as anything else
    Tenzin Xue: impermanence
    Tenzin Xue: nothing ever stays the same
    Fefonz Quan: Steve, would you say that when a stone fall on your leg?
    genesis Zhangsun: no indeed nothing ever stays the same but what I mean by no change is like the way in which there really was no change "per se" after the Copernican revolution
    genesis Zhangsun: people just understood for the first time the relationship between the earth and the sun as it truly was
    stevenaia Michinaga: if I were to say it... it would be an illusion for someone else, perhaps that might be the explanation of my reality however
    stevenaia Michinaga: their illusion
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but going to wnother ersons illusion you are dodging your reality Steve
    Fefonz Quan: (for Gen) So there was a huge change in perception
    Fefonz Quan: another persons*
    Pila Mulligan: ... and, as it was in the time of Copernicus, doctrinal dipsutes are still the bedrock of sectarian life
    stevenaia Michinaga: well..... let we mork with my pain for a moment and I'll get back to you
    stevenaia Michinaga: work
    genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed changes in perception but the fact was everyone was seeing it all the time
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    genesis Zhangsun: they just didn't know what they were seeing
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Eliza
    Fefonz Quan: did they? i think they didn;t.
    genesis Zhangsun: just like things in our life
    aurel Miles: the passage of time seems to turn everything to illusion
    Fefonz Quan: infact they so the opposite thing, the sun is circling us
    Fefonz Quan: saw*
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, everyone :)
    aurel Miles: Hi Eliza
    genesis Zhangsun: indeeed Fefonz but the people who truly investigating the matter probably did see that persecpective could not hold true
    genesis Zhangsun: and when they finally saw the truth they realized that they were always seeing it this way
    genesis Zhangsun: I think this is often how it is with personal insight too
    Tenzin Xue: We percieve things and we give them names and emotions and stories and call them objects. That is the illusion.
    Fefonz Quan: i tend to disagree, but this is surely just a metaphor
    Tenzin Xue: IMO lol
    genesis Zhangsun: did you ever have an realization about something in your life Fefonz? ;) and then saw that you had always known it
    genesis Zhangsun: but it was obscured from view until a certain moment?
    Fefonz Quan: well, that's the thing, mostly when i had realization, i didn't see it before.
    genesis Zhangsun: but after you saw it, did it seem completely familiar and clear to you
    genesis Zhangsun: like aha the answer was always there but you just didn't see it
    Fefonz Quan: sometimes, and sometimes it seemmed new and beautiful
    Qt Core: have to go, bye all
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Qt
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Qt
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Qt.
    aurel Miles: the phenomenon of body memories illustrates that clearly
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Qt
    aurel Miles: bye Qt
    genesis Zhangsun: [13:30] aurel Miles: the passage of time seems to turn everything to illusion
    Fefonz Quan: that's why i have difficulties with teh 'we already new it' notion
    genesis Zhangsun: Aurel could you say a bit more about this?
    aurel Miles: people carry body memories for years - they learn to live around the,
    aurel Miles: sure
    aurel Miles: i was thinking about the illusory quality of memory
    aurel Miles: and how swiftly experiences passes into that realm
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think I was speaking of the difference between experience or perception, and the interpretation of that experience
    aurel Miles: we've been talking about life as a movie we live
    aurel Miles: from time to time
    aurel Miles: and i've been refreshinbg my film studies well
    Fefonz Quan: yes Steve, that is ineresting
    aurel Miles: sorry
    aurel Miles: go on, steve
    Fefonz Quan: (no i am sorry if interupting)
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is a moment where it is reality, after that it desolves into illusion, the rock becomes in contact and manipulates nerves shooting electricity to the brain, the brain interperates this and the illusion begins, is it pain, is it funny, is it a memory worth learing from
    stevenaia Michinaga: *learning
    Fefonz Quan: so you say the illusion is not the pmpact, but the interpretation
    Fefonz Quan: impact*
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: how often is pain (even our own) funny
    genesis Zhangsun: seems like the two are difficult to separate
    Fefonz Quan: other tend to be funnier somehow ;-)
    genesis Zhangsun: the impact and interpretation
    Fefonz Quan: others*
    genesis Zhangsun: can we truly separate them?
    genesis Zhangsun: would we want to try?
    Fefonz Quan agree with genesis, thoguh on some level we can seperate them
    stevenaia Michinaga: tough to fabricate illusion w/o reality
    genesis Zhangsun: or by accepting the illusive nature of our existence fall back into reality
    Fefonz Quan: on the level of the angry/calm reaction it is more easy to seperate
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is the "angry/calm reaction"
    Fefonz Quan: like the reaction ' why does it happen to me', etc.
    Pila Mulligan: I agree with my understanding of Tenzin's comment, that the moment we begin to divide Being into parts and attributes, we set ourselves onto a path that inexorably leads to confusion ([13:32] Tenzin Xue: We percieve things and we give them names and emotions and stories and call them objects. That is the illusion) -- but that is how the mind likes to work/play, by making distinctions of things
    Tenzin Xue: :D
    genesis Zhangsun: yes me too Pila
    genesis Zhangsun: and Tenzin :)
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Arabella
    Tenzin Xue: :D
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    Pila Mulligan: but there's still the ice cream, and minds will be minds
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arabella
    Eliza Madrigal: Why reactiveness varies so greatly from one person to another, because it happens before the rock hits...that division, in some sense?
    Fefonz Quan: though in a way, if i understood Pema's email, 'the illusion of illusion' says that we can't also say that reality is merely an illusion
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Ara
    Pila Mulligan: reality is reality but how can we describe it?
    arabella Ella: Hiya Fefonz!
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am not one who would ask why I deserve to be hit
    stevenaia Michinaga: rocks being rocks
    Fefonz Quan: (and sometimes 30 rocks :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Fefonz Quan: if i can go back to Pila's point, naming names is elusive, but then wihtout them how can one eat the ice cream>?
    Pila Mulligan: precisely, Fefonz
    Pila Mulligan: I'd like to order some __________
    Fefonz Quan: and then yuo get a banana, yikes
    Pila Mulligan: what flavor -- oh, how about _________
    Tenzin Xue: no habla espanol lol
    Tenzin Xue: or french
    Pila Mulligan: do you like _____? no, I prefer ______ :)
    Pila Mulligan: lol
    Tenzin Xue: i like the blanks
    Pila Mulligan: so we have to use words
    Pila Mulligan: ok, we have to use ________
    Fefonz Quan: no, ____ prefer _____
    Tenzin Xue: words are only needed for communication lol
    Tenzin Xue: if we were hermits we could be silent lol
    Pila Mulligan: so how do we describe ________?
    Tenzin Xue: ___________.
    Pila Mulligan: aha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fefonz Quan: i can seethe title of this session coming: '____________'
    Tenzin Xue: ah g2g
    Pila Mulligan: bye Tenzin
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Tenzin
    Tenzin Xue takes a most humble bow
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Tenzin
    Tenzin Xue: bye~!
    aurel Miles: Bye Tenzin
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Tenzin
    genesis Zhangsun: _____ Tenzin
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: __ _____
    Pila Mulligan: _________, ____ _____ :)
    Fefonz Quan ____
    stevenaia Michinaga: ___!!!!
    arabella Ella: this conversation is so easy to follow I can choose to fill in the blanks as i wish :)
    Pila Mulligan: illusions of illusions
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Fefonz Quan: hehe
    Pila Mulligan: the model of heliocentrism credited to Copernicus presists in history, but it more ancient philsophers in various cultures also embraced heliocentrism -- part of the importance of Copernicus was the doctrine that he confronted
    Pila Mulligan: if we get stopped for speeding and asked something by a cop, we need to say more than ___________
    Pila Mulligan: so we need words
    Fefonz Quan: we can explain to him that time, hence speed, are illusiory
    Fefonz Quan: ;-)
    arabella Ella: is it not part of human nature to communicate, with words gestures or non verbally
    Pila Mulligan: and Fefonz, if he is nice, he will, say 'aye lad, and this ticket is a mirage' :)
    Pila Mulligan: and hwere would scinece be without symbols
    arabella Ella: what about thoughts
    Fefonz Quan: But Pila, this is the illusion of illusion in a way. In one sense the world is 'kind of' illusiory, but within it there is still realness to it, so calling it 'toatl illusary' is also a wrong view
    Fefonz Quan: total*
    genesis Zhangsun: well I must run!
    Pila Mulligan: bye genesis
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye gen.
    genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone!
    arabella Ella: bye gen
    Pila Mulligan: I agree, Fefonz, there are degrees of realness, but in the sense that aurel mentioned about thoughts, there are degrees of words
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Pila Mulligan: some thoughts are wordy, some are more imagery
    Pila Mulligan: reality seems more susceptible to images than words
    Pila Mulligan: in terms of description
    Pila Mulligan: but images lead to wrods
    Pila Mulligan: and words lead to debate
    Fefonz Quan: in a way words lead to images too
    Pila Mulligan: and that supports all kinds of insitutions
    Pila Mulligan: yes, words are most helpful when the lead to real images
    Pila Mulligan: they*
    Fefonz Quan: need to go, buy folks :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Fefonz
    arabella Ella: bye Fef
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes same here, see you tonight
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
    arabella Ella: bye steve
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steven
    Eliza Madrigal: We may not need quite so many words as we think we do...lke using the same tool because just it is closest
    aurel Miles: bye
    Pila Mulligan: the 90 second break helps us keep words in balance
    arabella Ella: but a rich language helps us to communicate both ideas and concepts to others
    arabella Ella: and after all it is words we use here to communicate
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, absolutely. I'm all for rich and textured language
    arabella Ella: yes those of us who enjoy reading prefer to read stuff that is rich textually
    Eliza Madrigal: And yet sometimes the rests between the words aren't given equal importance
    Pila Mulligan: I was reading about a British university philopshy class using SL, and they early on developed emotion scripts to help them express throughts
    Pila Mulligan: in their class
    arabella Ella: do you have more info Pila about this as it sounds intruiging
    Eliza Madrigal: certainly
    Pila Mulligan: SL deprives us of some of the emotional content of our words that would be seen or felt in personal meetings
    Pila Mulligan: let me see if I can find it
    arabella Ella nods
    aurel Miles: i think that's one of sl's strengths
    aurel Miles: you must choose your words carefully
    aurel Miles: and unintentioned stressors are less likely to manifest
    arabella Ella: the sole use of words for chat implies getting to know the real 'essence' of others on SL when we make the effort
    aurel Miles: i think you mean "impedes"
    aurel Miles: but i disagree
    aurel Miles: i think sl has distinct strengths
    arabella Ella: no aurel I do not mean impedes ... I feel I have got to know the real person behind the avi and what I mean is that pure chat does not involve any distracting image
    aurel Miles: that allow it to provide a door to different ways of knmowing
    aurel Miles: well Arabella
    aurel Miles: in that case
    aurel Miles: i don't know what you mean by
    aurel Miles: one sec - i'll clip it
    aurel Miles: he sole use of words for chat implies getting to know the real 'essence' of others on SL when we make the effort
    Pila Mulligan: http://magazine.openhabitat.org/tal/...rs-perspective
    aurel Miles: how does the use of words for chat imply anything?
    arabella Ella: thanks Pila ... gimmi a mom to copy link
    aurel Miles: i can't grasp your context
    Pila Mulligan: also interesting: http://secondphilosophy.wordpress.co...short-courses/
    aurel Miles: so i may have misunderstood
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm a wordy girl...prefer letters to phone calls and such, however I find pure chat lacking. SL has other cues along with...and rests. At least in this context and the ones I tend to be drawn to. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...there is the bat signal for me...must go :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone!
    aurel Miles: and me as well
    aurel Miles: bye
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    arabella Ella: bye Eliza
    arabella Ella: Pity aurel did not give me the opportunity to respond to her question as I was busy copying your links on a notecard Pila
    Pila Mulligan: in some settings SL chats seem to provide the careful discussion you referred to
    Pila Mulligan: in some they don't :)
    arabella Ella: but what I meant was that we do not have the same images to distract us in SL as we do in RL
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I understand
    Pila Mulligan: we are on a kind of more mental level
    arabella Ella: and we don't bring our RL baggage into SL ... in the sense of status, age, appearance, family etc
    Pila Mulligan: less visual, more thought
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    arabella Ella: exactly
    Pila Mulligan: but then we do have the visual image of the avi
    Pila Mulligan: for what it is worth
    arabella Ella: where I come from I am always assessed as the daughter of so and so or the person who did _____ (whatever) etc
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    arabella Ella: yes but I for one do not give much importance to avi image in SL at all altho i may be an exception
    Pila Mulligan: well, one aspect of the avi is that the person behind it gets to present their chosen self-image -- even if the gender, age, appearance, etc. is not consistent with their real life body
    arabella Ella: Pila may I ask you something please
    Pila Mulligan: please
    arabella Ella: the other day you spoke about the importance of breathing
    arabella Ella: for contemplation
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    arabella Ella: how can one best practice that in an attempt to build up the skill?
    arabella Ella: mainly cos i was impressed with the importance you placed on breathing
    Pila Mulligan: do you have any existing or fromer practices?
    Pila Mulligan: yoga, meditaiotn, etc?
    arabella Ella: unfortunately not
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    arabella Ella: just a short spell of tai chi
    arabella Ella: so nothing much
    Pila Mulligan: well, this is actually better donein person
    Pila Mulligan: but we can try
    arabella Ella: yes pls if you dont mind
    Pila Mulligan: breath energy is cleansing
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: inhalation is one part -- it feeds us energy
    Pila Mulligan: exhalation is important also -- it hepls with the cleansing
    Pila Mulligan: so we do both well and we get the best of it
    Pila Mulligan: now the first thing is to think about how a baby breathes
    arabella Ella: yes ... and it all leads to a calmer and more harmonious self
    Pila Mulligan: yep :)
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: when you watch a baby breathinig, what do you see, physically?
    arabella Ella thinking
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: it's their tummy
    arabella Ella: generally speaking tranquility
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: their tummy is going in and out regularly
    arabella Ella: sorry i have some lag at times
    Pila Mulligan: they are quite at peace, but their tummy is quite active
    Pila Mulligan: ok :)
    Pila Mulligan: so here's this peaceful being enjoying the benefit of belly breathing
    Pila Mulligan: as we get older we tend to change from belly breathing to lung breathing
    arabella Ella: interesting
    Pila Mulligan: our lung muscles are ntohing compared toour belly muscles
    arabella Ella: true
    Pila Mulligan: but for some reaons we make the change
    Pila Mulligan: so first, it helps to use belly breahting
    Pila Mulligan: and the 'secret' here is the role of the diaphragm
    arabella Ella: ok am trying it now and it does really make a big difference ... amazing
    Pila Mulligan: whem your belly extends out ward the doaphragm pulls air into the lungs
    Pila Mulligan: when your belly contracts the daphragm ushes air out
    Pila Mulligan: like a bellows
    Pila Mulligan: pushes*
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: if you can rekindle the habit of belly breating it feels better :)
    Pila Mulligan: easier
    Pila Mulligan: but you have to let the habit return
    Pila Mulligan: ,eantime you can think about it
    arabella Ella: yes and it is very true that it is something we tend to forget as adults
    Pila Mulligan: two more tinhgs, if there is itme ...
    arabella Ella: when we had practised some breathing here
    arabella Ella: i had forgotten the importance of the diaphram
    Pila Mulligan: go ahead please
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    arabella Ella smiles ... dont ty
    arabella Ella: two more things ... yes?
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    arabella Ella: (I meant done)
    aurel Miles: oops
    Pila Mulligan: first, belly breathiing leads us to the relationship between movement and breahting -- like yoga and tai chi
    aurel Miles: meant to tp
    aurel Miles: bye again
    Pila Mulligan: bye :)
    arabella Ella: bye
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: lets think about the relationship of benidng forward to pick something up form the floor
    Pila Mulligan: with belly breathing
    arabella Ella: ok
    Pila Mulligan: it wouldbe easier to bend forward when your stomach is contracting
    arabella Ella: yes just tried it ;)
    Pila Mulligan: similarly, it is easeir to straighten back up whenyou inhale, when your belly expands
    Pila Mulligan: this is first due to the space occupied by your belly
    Pila Mulligan: if it is expanding it hepls push you up
    arabella Ella: yes athletes tend to do this too i think
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: now some old practiioners also observed that the iternal movement of breath energy -- chi -- also correpsonsds to the same principles
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Pila Mulligan: exhaling supports beding forward
    Pila Mulligan: inhaling supports straigenting up
    arabella Ella: mmmm
    Pila Mulligan: bending
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: so physically, externally, and internally, breathing relates also to movement
    arabella Ella: sounds like it certainly does
    Pila Mulligan: the seocond thing is a caveat ...
    arabella Ella: amazing ... so simple ... yet so ... neglected
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Pila Mulligan: after long years of lung breathing we get used to running on a lower level of energy
    Pila Mulligan: our bodies and minds and emotions are accustomed to that by habit
    Pila Mulligan: we may have bad breathing habits that we are used to as well
    arabella Ella: yes so we tend to get tired more easily
    Pila Mulligan: so when we start to change to the belly bretahing habit. the change can sometimes habe disturbing results
    Pila Mulligan: fromt he added energy
    arabella Ella: why disturbing?
    Pila Mulligan: because the rush of energy seems unusual
    arabella Ella: even though ... in my opinion ...
    Pila Mulligan: it seems in my expereince that about 20% of the people doing this have some upsetting expereince
    arabella Ella: altho i feel i have lots of energy i could always do with more
    Pila Mulligan: it is just a cautionary note .. not to rush forward if things weem uncomfortable
    Pila Mulligan: let things proceed gradually
    arabella Ella: ok thanks for the warning ... as you say one never knows
    Pila Mulligan: usually the discomfort is the result of insuffieinct exhalation
    Pila Mulligan: plenty of air coming in, not enough going out :)
    arabella Ella: and ... how often should I start off trying to do this on a daily basis?
    Pila Mulligan: overcharging
    Pila Mulligan: whatever feels good, but I'd say 15 inutes a day is plenty to start
    arabella Ella: sounds good to me
    arabella Ella: thank you so much Pila this is certainly very helpful
    Pila Mulligan: it is easy to do when sitting at first
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pila Mulligan: thenyou can start doing it also while moving around
    arabella Ella: ok
    Pila Mulligan: if you like
    Pila Mulligan: I'm happy to help arabella
    arabella Ella: i will definitely give it a go
    arabella Ella: thanks!
    Pila Mulligan: keep an eye on you feelings :)
    Pila Mulligan: tour*
    Pila Mulligan: your**
    arabella Ella: i certainly will
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    arabella Ella: must go now but thanks once again really appreciate this support :)
    arabella Ella: bye for now
    Pila Mulligan: okay, see yu next time -- aloha
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