2009.04.27 19:00 - About the Wiki

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.


    After a bit of social interaction, the primary topic of this session is an offer by Peer Infinity to revise the PaB Wiki to match the Wikipedia-style of Wiki. PaB members are invited to comment.

    Peer Infinity: hi Pila :D
    buddha Nirvana: heloo pila:)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Peer and buddha
    Peer Infinity: hi Ade :D
    Pila Mulligan: hi Ade
    Peer Infinity: hi Threedee :D
    Pila Mulligan: hi Threedee
    buddha Nirvana: hi three:)
    buddha Nirvana: hey ade:)
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks
    Peer Infinity: hi steve :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi steve
    buddha Nirvana: hi steve
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for your help last night Pila
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: Sunday night can be a lonely time
    Pila Mulligan: n no problem
    Pila Mulligan: I was sorry to hear about your accident with the deer
    stevenaia Michinaga: yeah, at least it was drivable and deer ran off
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, so the deer may survive also
    Pila Mulligan: were you alone in the car?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no driving back fro Mother-in-laws w/ spouse
    Pila Mulligan: and no injuries inside I hope
    stevenaia Michinaga: only damage was car and deer
    Pila Mulligan: those can be nasty accidents
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, no airbag deployment
    Pila Mulligan: did you have time to brake?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no adreneline rush, jsut a thud
    stevenaia Michinaga: no
    Pila Mulligan: ahh
    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut bounced off and kept running
    Threedee Shepherd: front or side
    stevenaia Michinaga: between headlights, which still work
    Pila Mulligan: wow
    stevenaia Michinaga: they jsut pointed kind of up now
    stevenaia Michinaga: are there deer in Hawaii?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: or other exotic critters
    Pila Mulligan: they were brought here for hunters and they have bceom quite a nuisance for farmers
    Threedee Shepherd: well, I wonder if we can now do a session tonight titled "between the headlights
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Pema
    stevenaia Michinaga: was remembering a conversation here about reality and illusion recently
    stevenaia Michinaga: reality (the impact) lasted but a moment
    Pila Mulligan: konnichi ha Pema-san
    Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
    stevenaia Michinaga: everything else after that was an interpritarion of the moment
    Pila Mulligan: to me, it is surprising a deer hit head on would bounce and run away
    Peer Infinity: hi Pema :D
    Pila Mulligan: that seems a little dream like
    stevenaia Michinaga: I ahd a soft hood it would seem the way it crumbled
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: deer air bag
    buddha Nirvana: hi pema:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I say it run across the road
    Pema Pera: (I don't know how long I can stay; I'm stealing some time at my work place, at 11 am in the morning, and may be called to a meeting any moment)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: was thinking about the moment of impact
    Threedee Shepherd: Pema, if you are caught stealing time, do you have to give it back :D
    stevenaia Michinaga: a second either way and it might not have happened
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos
    Pila Mulligan: I suppose the deer was running toward you at an angle
    Pema Pera: Hi Eos!
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes across the road
    Threedee Shepherd: hi Eos
    Pema Pera: it depends, Three, on whether I will be caught in the act
    Eos Amaterasu: HI all!
    Pila Mulligan: so you were destined to share that spot in space and time
    stevenaia Michinaga: appearently and all that it changes
    stevenaia Michinaga: or in order for the universe to be as it is
    Pila Mulligan: aside from the fronte end of the car ...
    Peer Infinity: so, anyway, um, moderately big announcement: http://acceleratingfuture.com/pabwiki
    Peer Infinity: I am currently in the process of converting the PaB wiki to mediawiki format.
    Pila Mulligan: wow
    Pila Mulligan: your previouse comment was that would be a huge task
    Peer Infinity: yeah, I, um... found a series of shortcuts :)
    Pema Pera: that looks very nice, Peer!
    Pema Pera: are you suggesting to transfer everything to mediawiki?
    Peer Infinity: yes
    Peer Infinity: mediawiki is more betterer
    Pema Pera: :)
    Peer Infinity: than DekiWiki
    stevenaia Michinaga: better in what ways?
    Peer Infinity: better as in... it's an actual wiki
    Pila Mulligan: that would be 'mo betta' in Hawaiian pidgin, Peer
    Peer Infinity: hehe :)
    Pila Mulligan: you said last time it is better with tags, although I'm still not sure whattags are
    Peer Infinity: (rather than a place that you can dump content into, but not find it in, or export it out of...)
    Peer Infinity: if we're going to use MediaWiki, then we would use categories instead of tags.
    Pila Mulligan: can you update content from one to the other?
    Peer Infinity: then you can do fancy stuff like make a category tree...
    Pila Mulligan: using both
    Peer Infinity: update content from one to the other? what do you mean?
    Adelene Dawner: If anyone uses wikipedia at all, that's a mediawiki, so (perhaps with a bit of work, wikipedia may be modded) we should be able to do everything wikipedia can do.
    Pema Pera: originally I had thought about mediawiki as the prefered kind of wiki, and we then decided upon the dekiwiki mostly because of the ease to get a web site, if I remember it correctly; it may have had to do also with ease of uploading pictures and general multimedia and/or easier for people with little computer background -- but yes, I do prefer mediawiki, if for no other reason that it is more widespread
    Pila Mulligan: well, have a dynamic thing -- where you keep the present one and also have the new one updated from it
    Peer Infinity: (here's an example of a category tree: http://acceleratingfuture.com/wiki/All_Topics )
    Peer Infinity: good explanation, Ade :)
    Peer Infinity: Pila: what"one"s are you referring to?
    Pila Mulligan: maybe best to drop my diveregence form substance :)
    Pila Mulligan: it was a procedure question
    Peer Infinity: that, um... doesn't make it any clearer...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Peer Infinity: yes, DekiWiki makes it easy to put an image or video or whatever right in the middle of a page. That's the only advantage I know of
    Peer Infinity: unless you happen to enjoy the Microsoft Word-style interface, and don't find yourself constantly wrestling with it to do simple tasks...
    Pema Pera: How much work would it be to transfer the complete content of the current wiki to a mediawiki?
    Peer Infinity: so, um... does anyone here actually LIKE the DekiWiki interface better than MediaWiki?
    Peer Infinity: it would take a few more hours to do a quick job of transferring all of the content
    Threedee Shepherd: I'm lazy. All I want is the easiest ways to post the logs ;>
    Peer Infinity: as you saw, I went ahead and set up a draft of the PaB wiki, at http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/pabwiki
    Peer Infinity: I converted the main page manually, but used my semi-automated method to convert a few other pages.
    Peer Infinity: For a list of all pages currently on the wiki, see http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/pa...ecial:AllPages
    Pema Pera: many of us have been unhappy about the slooooow performance of the Dekiwiki
    Peer Infinity: Since this is just a quick job of the converting, there will be some minor formatting issues. You can see some of these issues on the chat log pages that are already converted.
    Peer Infinity: These issues can be cleaned up manually after the conversion, or maybe even during the conversion, if it's important.
    Peer Infinity: I guess I had better wait for some feedback from the group before I go any further with converting the wiki.
    Peer Infinity: Once all of the pages are all converted, it's relatively straightforward to move the wiki to your server.
    Peer Infinity: though, um... where is the wiki currently hosted?
    Pema Pera: it is a commercial place
    Peer Infinity: as in, the group is paying for it?
    Pema Pera: free for the simple form
    Pema Pera: and we pay a nominal fee for a slight upgrade
    Eos Amaterasu: Most hosting sites have auto-install scripts for MediaWiki
    Pema Pera: I forget exactly what we bought with that, we can trace that
    Pema Pera: we will have to discuss your proposal, to see how everybody feels.
    Peer Infinity: another option is to host it for free on Wikia, but that means you would have ads on the wiki...
    Pema Pera: But it is a very excited idea!
    Pema Pera: Thank you very much indeed
    Peer Infinity: :)
    Peer Infinity: you're welcome :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello gina
    Pila Mulligan: hi gina
    Peer Infinity: anyway, the main disadvantage of switching to MediaWiki is that you can't just copy and paste images and videos etc. straight to the page
    Pema Pera: hi Gina!
    Peer Infinity: and it doesn't have the MS Word-style editor
    Peer Infinity: and the main advantage is that you get to use all of the tools that were developed for MediaWiki
    gina Broono: good evening every one
    Peer Infinity: hi gina :)
    Peer Infinity: (heh... I'm not really any good at selling ideas...)
    Peer Infinity: (or communication in general, actually...)
    Pema Pera: I think it is a great idea, Peer
    Pema Pera: it's a big step, and quite possibly the right step for us to take
    Peer Infinity: :)
    Pema Pera: but we'll have to think about it, and discuss it amongst the members of Play as Being
    Threedee Shepherd: Hello to all who are just arriving
    Pema Pera: to see what everybody thinks about it.
    Pema Pera: Hi Russ and Hadrian!
    Hadrian Rives: good evening
    Peer Infinity: oh, another advantage: that will make it easier to link to content from other wikis, like Wikipedia, or the Less Wrong wiki...
    Hadrian Rives: hope u dont mind my presence
    Russ Copperfield: hey
    gina Broono: all, Hadrian is a friend of mine, please welcome him
    Pema Pera: you're welcome to join us, Hadrian!
    Pema Pera: and Russ!
    Hadrian Rives: thank u
    Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Peer Infinity: anyway, I was hoping that the PaB wiki would eventually grow into an actual wiki, like a mini-wikipedia, rather than just a place to dump chatlogs...
    Hadrian Rives: i would listen and learn more than anything
    Pema Pera: Yes, I can see many advantages. Thanks, Peer!
    Peer Infinity: you're welcome :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: so the big diference is structure and ability to search?
    stevenaia Michinaga: (for us slow people here)
    stevenaia Michinaga: or is there more?
    buddha Nirvana: thanks everyone
    Eos Amaterasu: It's more well-known, ("standard"), skills to/from Wikipedia transfer
    Threedee Shepherd: Ok, for the last part of the session, anyone have a topic they want to explore. Sounds like we know how to proceed to think about the Wiki.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do, whichever is prettier
    Pema Pera: well, I think I've stolen enough time by now -- glad that I could be here, Peere, to hear about the interesting news! -- we will follow up.
    Peer Infinity: ok, thanks :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: Good seeing you all!
    Pema Pera: bfn
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
    Threedee Shepherd: remember folks, the dialog meeting tomorrow at this time
    Pila Mulligan: "How can the experiential be formally communicated to another using the experience of peace and happiness as examples"
    Threedee Shepherd: Thank you Pila
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t that tomarow's topic?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, it is
    Peer Infinity: (once the content is converted to mediawiki fomrat, it will be in one big xml file, of about 100 mb. You can then import that xml file into any mediawiki)
    Eos Amaterasu: That's expansion of the "dialog" topic?
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    Pila Mulligan: it is a theme that followed a previous theme session, Eos
    Pila Mulligan: or arose in
    stevenaia Michinaga: can you clear up the "experiential" Three, and what makes peace and happynees formal
    Threedee Shepherd: Or perhaps another title for it could be: "Is it ironic that PaB sessions use lots of words to observe how useless words are to express actual experience?"
    Pila Mulligan: the question 'what is happiness' made me think of the question you posed to your grandchild, Threedee -- as I recall, she kind of questioned the question
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes Pila. But others thing it a concept, as in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
    Threedee Shepherd: *think
    gina Broono: happiness is the joy of being in the present with yoursef and accepting who you realy are, as you are
    Eos Amaterasu: Re "formal communication", perhaps it's 1) sharing, 2) saying "we've just shared, notice!"
    Pila Mulligan: ... and a note: in that case, it was originally 'ownership of property' -- the founding fathers balked there, however, and made it happiness :)
    Threedee Shepherd: gina, I wonder if that is "happiness" or a condition hecessary for happiness to arise?
    Hadrian Rives: excuse me..is there a"true" happiness and a "perceived" or "ephemeral" one?
    Hadrian Rives: a distinction worth considering?
    Threedee Shepherd: Hadrian, is there anything other than what is perceived?
    Hadrian Rives: yes...that which is sought after
    Hadrian Rives: defined only in the abstract expounded ad infinitum argued and fought over..but still..something beyond the pale of perception
    Threedee Shepherd: that which is sought after is perceived in the imagining of it
    Hadrian Rives: or in the longing for it...the unknown subconscious
    stevenaia Michinaga: Three does happiness have a special "spot" in the brain or is one of those all over feelings?
    Threedee Shepherd: somewhat a network of "spots"
    stevenaia Michinaga: and where does the perception of happiness reside?
    Hadrian Rives: i must beg leave...rl beckons..but i urge consideration of the proposed distinction
    Threedee Shepherd: I will spend a bit looking at that later, offline of PaB.
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, try to come and participate tomorrow night Hardian
    Hadrian Rives: the amygdala...place to start...
    Hadrian Rives: i will
    Hadrian Rives: thanks for ur hospitality
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes limbic areas, but then more
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders what the geography of happiness in the brain is shared with
    Threedee Shepherd: emotions
    gina Broono: dear friends I have to go and I will see you all soon. great topics and very enlightening as always.
    stevenaia Michinaga: poth real and preceived happyness
    stevenaia Michinaga: both
    Eos Amaterasu: Thank you ,must go as well, perchance to dream... :-)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye all, see you tomorrow
    Threedee Shepherd: OK, bye
    stevenaia Michinaga: never enough time to discuss happiness
    Threedee Shepherd: Or, all the time in the world.
    stevenaia Michinaga: does peace dwell in the places happiness resides?
    Threedee Shepherd: I need to stop "on time" tonite, so I will close the log and say goodnight :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night three, see you tomarrow
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    Threedee Shepherd: or the other way around, Steve?
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