2010.05.25 01:00 - Jumble

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.

Wester Kiranov: hi cal

Calvino Rabeni: Hello Wester

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: How are you, Wester? What's up lately?

Wester Kiranov: I'm OK. Not much happening really. Well, I made popovers with my daughter (who's 3), that kind of things happen. How are you?.

Calvino Rabeni: I'm well, it is a slow spring this year, and haven't gotten out into the wilderness yet this year.

Calvino Rabeni: Instead, more time web-surfing and reading.

Wester Kiranov: out into the wilderness? what do you mean by that?

Wester Kiranov: And what kind of things are you reading?

Wester Kiranov: I do have a photo of my daughter cooking http://www.flickr.com/photos/wester/4636642846/

Calvino Rabeni: The town I'm in is surrounded by mountains, forests and trails, I like to explore. This year the high elevations aren't clear of snow yet. Last year by now it was all gone.

Wester Kiranov: (RL calling) brb

--BELL--

Wester Kiranov: Sorry, that took a while.

Calvino Rabeni: I got a big smile from the picture of your daughter and the popovers. Thanks for sharing that :)

Wester Kiranov: yw ;-) Lovely, living near the mountains. I like (light) trekking, but I haven't really been able to do much of that for the last few years

Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense, if you have young children.

Wester Kiranov: It's not going to be that long until we can take them on mountain walks. Really short ones, probably this summer.

Calvino Rabeni: A new world for them...

Liza Deischer: hey ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Liza :)

Wester Kiranov: hi liza

Liza Deischer: (can't stay long, just popping in to say hello)

Calvino Rabeni: I'm a housguest of a retired scholar - the hazard here is too much to read - mostly American magazines :)

Calvino Rabeni: Oh ,pop in any time? :)

Calvino Rabeni: (no ? intended in that last statement)

Liza Deischer: :-)

Calvino Rabeni: I was surfing your profile Wester, and it led to a long interview with Stephen Batchelor (sceptical buddhist group)

Calvino Rabeni: It's on the same program that Piet Hut was interviewed - "Brainwaves"

Wester Kiranov: I like Stephen Batchelor a lot, but I don't do much with the skepical buddhists

Calvino Rabeni: They combine science and philosophy - e.g. neuroscience and buddhism

Liza Deischer: I think I read something from him, is that possible?

Wester Kiranov: of course it's possible ;)

Calvino Rabeni: A recent book is out - about the historical Buddha

Calvino Rabeni: Kind of - buddhism without religion, I guess

Wester Kiranov: his best known book is buddhism without beliefs

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: The interview video is at http://blip.tv/file/3347011

Liza Deischer: some persons here a bell and starts to doze of immediatly :-)))))

Liza Deischer: thanks Cal

Calvino Rabeni: lol Liza :)

Calvino Rabeni: Are you sure you're not related to ...

Wester Kiranov: aren't bells supposed to wake you up ;-P but I know what you mean

Calvino Rabeni: .. nevermind :)

Liza Deischer: I seem to have read something about him, long ago, that was really Buddhism, but translated to western understandeble proportions

Liza Deischer: hmm, some bells don't :-)

Calvino Rabeni: Well if it does, just get a bigger bell :)

Liza Deischer: maybe I'm talking about somebody else

Wester Kiranov: it could have been him, still

Calvino Rabeni: A "Secular, Western, Atheistic Buddhist" is a tag-line

Liza Deischer: you know bells can do weird stuff like in the experiment with Pavlov :-)))

Calvino Rabeni: The dogs learned it

Wester Kiranov: so what do meditation bells condition you to do?

Calvino Rabeni: But when their masters chant Om, something different happens

Calvino Rabeni: They condition you to relax and pay attention

Calvino Rabeni: And come back to center

Wester Kiranov: and then fall asleep attentively

Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, but you get credit for that too :)

Liza Deischer: :-))

Liza Deischer: need to go again

Wester Kiranov: and then you're suppose to let go of all that lovely credit

Liza Deischer: but nice refreshing statements for the morning

Calvino Rabeni: Bye, glad you dropped in Liza.

Wester Kiranov: nice you were here liza

Liza Deischer: cu

Calvino Rabeni: But about the bell, it seems there's something in the sound itself, not just a conditioned association?

Wester Kiranov: The sound is lovely, even when you hear it for the first time, I admit. But I don't know if ther is anything intrinsic there that wakes you up, or just the association

Calvino Rabeni: I think there is - that it has an inherent quality that impacts consciousness in a particular way.

Wester Kiranov: There might be - I just don't know for sure

Calvino Rabeni: I've been losing interest in reading and gaining interest in audio presentations

Wester Kiranov: I could use some less interest in reading - I'd have lots more time ;-P

Calvino Rabeni: The way it's related - is that the thing I'm paying attention to isn't the "information" but the kind of quality and style of the people doing the presentation

Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, also audio can be used, while doing other things,

Calvino Rabeni: So the time can do "double duty"

Calvino Rabeni: ... or is multitasking generally not a good idea ? :)

Calvino Rabeni: Listening while driving - lots of people do that

Wester Kiranov: I'm sure multitasking is a double illusion ;)

Calvino Rabeni: Oh, maybe they cancel out :)

--BELL--

Wester Kiranov: *trying to imagine listening cancelling out driving*

Wester Kiranov: (vice versa is not that hard)

Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking - after an earlier session - about the house environment people create around themselves

Calvino Rabeni: Accumulating "stuff" - possessions

Calvino Rabeni: When people start to think about what kind of quality they have created with all that

Calvino Rabeni: That it might be changed by doing something intentional

Calvino Rabeni: Like what?

Calvino Rabeni: LIghtening the load, simplifying

Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe, looking at the quality of those objects

Calvino Rabeni: As in, quality before quantity

Calvino Rabeni: Some people are pretty talented with the design and choices

Wester Kiranov: if there's too much quantity it becomes impossible to even see the quality

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, true

Calvino Rabeni: Lessening the distraction and jumble seems the prerequisite to having the quality have its effect

Wester Kiranov: but then you have to lessen the jumble inside as well :-)

Calvino Rabeni: They seem pretty related to me

Calvino Rabeni: Because the objects all have involvments and attachments

Wester Kiranov: I think they start out related, but they can become quite independent. Some people can be spacious in big rumbles, other people are distracted even without outer distractions

Calvino Rabeni: What would that be a result of, do you suppose?

Wester Kiranov: some of it is probably innate, and a lot of it is certainly practice

--BELL--

Wester Kiranov: Like getting undistracted and unjumbled for 9 or 90 seconds ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: Practice might turn into a habit, perhaps? Or rather, cultivation of a state of how the mind works?

Wester Kiranov: I think so

Calvino Rabeni: Awareness seems like a value-free thing, at least, the basic forms of it

Calvino Rabeni: LIke it doesn't take sides, have preferences

Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm

Wester Kiranov: I think that's true as well

Wester Kiranov: But I have to go soon. it was good to talk to you.

Wester Kiranov: namaste

Calvino Rabeni: :) Yes, Wester - good to meet you here - it's been a while

Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

Calvino Rabeni: Have a good day :)

Wester Kiranov: We'll meet again :-) Bye

Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)