2010.05.02 13:00 - Theme session: San Francisco retreat thoughts

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden. This meeting was planned to be a theme session focussing primarily on the experiences of those who attended the recent San Francisco retreat.  I have deleted many of the introductory greetings, and other preliminaries which seemed to my mind not fully relevant to the theme session itself.   About 10 minutes into the session I mention the theme session focus and this is where the chatlog begins.  While I might comment on the themes and meanderings of the session, it feels respectful to allow each reader to have his or her experience, for just as in the session there are not absolute realities, but the panoply of individual experiences to glean and accrue.  

Maxine Walden: Probably everyone is aware that this is a theme session, with Pema and others speaking about the SF retreat
Agatha Macbeth nods
Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats/2010-04_California contains pointers to photos and reports
Maxine Walden: or about themes from that retreat, is that right, Pema?
Bleu Oleander: looking forward to it!
Pema Pera: there are four reports now, fun to read!
Pema Pera: different and similar in interesting ways
Maxine Walden: looking forward to reading them
Bleu Oleander: just read them .... very nice to read and think about
Pema Pera: about wiping windows and seeing in fresh ways
Maxine Walden: hmm :)
Pema Pera: Wol and Gaya, let me express once again how much we missed you both !!
Wol Euler: it was very mutual :(
Wol Euler: and thank you
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, missed seeing you for the 1st time, Gaya; and Wol the 2nd time
Fefonz Quan: there was a science fiction retreat and i've missed it...)
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed, we really felt you there... and not there...
Eos Amaterasu: we did see Gaya once in a plate, over lunch :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Eos Amaterasu: (bunny image)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: do Koreans also see a bunny in the moon, Gaya?
Pema Pera: (if so we say you there too)
Pema Pera: *saw
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I won a prize younger writing a poem on the Moon and a bunny that makes rice cake :) Lagging here a bit, not being rude.
Eos Amaterasu: retreat started out with one worldly event after another, unpredictable, with volcano making big waves
Eliza Madrigal: :) Gaya... still have the poem? Would love to read that
Pema Pera: and many music bands unexpectedly showing up when we turned a corner
Eliza Madrigal: 'unexpected' certainly seems the way to describe many aspects of the retreat
Pema Pera: Gaya in the Moon / looking down on volcano / missing Earthbound friends
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... it's probably still hanging in the school somewhere :) I think I regretted growing up and finding out that the bunny doesn't exist on the Moon.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aaw
Maxine Walden: nice Pema haiku
Maxine Walden: maybe a partial expression of some of what went on at the retreat
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth waves to Liza
Liza Deischer is waving back
Fael Illyar waves to Liza and Sharon.
Liza Deischer is waving back
Pema Pera: one thing that was rather poignant in a small group is that we all felt forced to do more soul searching, I think; in a larger group it is easier to focus on the group dynamics, whereas in a smaller group each individual really stands out, warts and all, aspirations and all, inspirations and all . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza and Sharon :)
Pema Pera: hi Sharon, hi Liza!
Liza Deischer: hi everyone
Maxine Walden: yes, the intimacy of the situation when fewer people there
Agatha Macbeth: Hello SSL :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry late!)
Eliza Madrigal nods. Certainly true of my experience... Whatever expectations I'd arrived with were sort of turned over...
Eliza Madrigal: in all kinds ways, and the distinctions between good/bad/happy/sad seemed hm, a little strange at times :) It was wonderfully challenging
Eos Amaterasu: harder to find handholds in urban rertreat setting, small group
Maxine Walden: ? Eos
Maxine Walden: handholds?
Eos Amaterasu: boundaries to hold on to
Eos Amaterasu: such as "is this a retreat or is this ordinary life?"
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Maxine Walden: ah, I see
Fael Illyar: I've been kind of feeling like I'm on a retreat in my home lately again.
Fefonz Quan: so did you hold hands or not? :)
Eliza Madrigal: :).. yes, when we went skipping down the lanes ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, not in the way we did in Malta :-)
Eliza Madrigal: (kidding =P~)
Agatha Macbeth: Pema poofs...
Eos Amaterasu: We did go on adventures together
Maxine Walden: appearance...disappearance...
Eos Amaterasu: bring the band of retreatants into the world
Wol Euler: bad mojo today :(
Agatha Macbeth: Mojo not rising
Eliza Madrigal: yes, interesting and unexpected adventures
Eliza Madrigal: like "Hm, what is 4/20 all about?" "Why are these people gathered?"
Agatha Macbeth: wb Gaya
Wol Euler: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry SL isn't being friendly tonight. Will catch up via log. Good night everyone :)
Agatha Macbeth: wb pema :)
Pema Pera: (back within five minutes :-)
Eliza Madrigal: SL reflecting some of the retreat experience...
Wol Euler: heh, really.
Maxine Walden: unanticipated events?
Maxine Walden: Could you tell us some of the themes you investigated?
Fefonz Quan: so you didn't pick someplace in the city and sat and talked/meditated?
Maxine Walden: or practices?
Pema Pera: hi there Genesis!
Maxine Walden: hi gen
Wol Euler: hello gen
Pema Pera: in a park, for example, actually in more than one park
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
genesis Zhangsun: just got my daughter to sleep :)
Maxine Walden: ah...
Pema Pera waving to Ella
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Eliza Madrigal: One thing I can say personally is that 'because' Wol and Gaya didn't make it, I was profoundly aware of missing our SL community here during retreat 'away'... added onto by not taking a laptop :)
Bleu Oleander: also SFers, could you explain a little further "starting at the end"?
Wol Euler: awwwww <3
Eliza Madrigal: I was a bit surprised by that... it heightened my awarenss of our connections
Pema Pera: where to start, Bleu, in explaining :-)
Eos Amaterasu: That was one question, how to start at the end in any situation, and in meeting people
Eos Amaterasu: What does that mean?
Bleu Oleander: what is meant by "end"
Eliza Madrigal thinks of Eos's report line 'nothing to drop'
Eliza Madrigal: or rather already dropped..
Eos Amaterasu: Not too far from "what does PaB mean", how do we do Pab (here in SL, in Rl, etc)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: one aspect is that we can't reach what we really are, 'cause we already are what we are -- trying to become a better person or reaching for realization or enlightenment can easily miss the mark, "paint a sun on a closed window" rather than opening the window to the sun that already is out there, shining
Eos Amaterasu: Starting at the end can also come from being open to not knowing, not knowing how to cope
Eos Amaterasu: so that there's a space open
Eliza Madrigal: hm, nods
Eos Amaterasu: it might not seem like anything positive
Fefonz Quan: (So even at the end we won't know how to cope.... oh)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe Fefonz
Pema Pera: and recognizing my own tendencies to always want to close that space, that was a great learning adventure
Pema Pera: and then to drop the not-knowing-how . . .
Pema Pera: trusting that not-knowing
Eos Amaterasu: trusting the end as not-knowing, as not being an "answer", but still a question, open to whatever happens and to response to that
Eos Amaterasu: trusting the other person's not knowing, also
Eos Amaterasu: that can give you confidence when someone else trusts your not knowing
Pema Pera: that's perhaps the greatest gift to give someone
Fael Illyar: to see what you are, first let go of what you must be.
genesis Zhangsun: I like that "trusting the other person's ot knowing
Eliza Madrigal: I think during the week I questioned myself ... motives, time, attention... noticed more of what I wasn't noticing
Liza Deischer: hi Steven
Agatha Macbeth: Hello steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, don;t mean to interrupt
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Steve
Liza Deischer: you're not
Eliza Madrigal: and we dwelled a bit on humility, which was very inspiring
Maxine Walden: not at all, Steve, the SF retreaters are sharing some of their experience...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :))
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: if one thinks they are at the end already, maybe they don't start :)
Maxine Walden: why trust in the unknown if you think you Know everything?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Fefonz Quan: maybe trust is also a way of knowing
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: I think trust could be seen as a highly experiential way of knowing:
Maxine Walden: perhaps we non-retreaters are having a taste of the experience at the retreat: wondering 'what went on', not knowing but trying to be in the unknown...
Eos Amaterasu: you're will to give into and respond into the situation, and trust its response back
Wol Euler nods to Maxine
Pema Pera: trust in the value of leaving open, of appreciating without "buying into"
Eos Amaterasu: you don't trust your'self' or the other person's 'self': you trust their "end" (ahem... :-)
Pema Pera: I can trust you (or myself) even without affirming the interpretation you (or I) offer
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, Maxine, and yes leaving open... how to allow that
genesis Zhangsun: if I were to look at the roots of this kind of deep trust in the situation, in others, I would say it is a sense of complete okayness, that there are really no grave mistakes, nothing is truly lost
SophiaSharon Larnia: so interesting Genesis
genesis Zhangsun: in that "ground" to lay back into, there is more room to let the situation go, out of your control
genesis Zhangsun: or illusion of control
genesis Zhangsun: to meet what is really there
Fefonz Quan nods, this out of control is a tough cookie
Eos Amaterasu: "out of control" usually connotes some "eyes closed" cquality
Eos Amaterasu: here I think it's eyes wide open, so you see what the world is giving back
Eos Amaterasu: that's reality check
Fefonz Quan: for me it's like 'jumping from a plane' if you already asked Eos :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes and 'complete okayness' (what a great phrase) sounds like a given "Oh, of course" but seems to take reminders :)
Eos Amaterasu: the only landing place for the plane is itself a cloud
Eliza Madrigal: you know we talked about very practical aspects of playing as being, too... how we come to the computer, what we try not to be doing, etc.
genesis Zhangsun: well jumping out of plane and finding strangely that you have landed on a cloud
Fefonz Quan: yes, and yet it feels very different (at least according to my experience, tried that )
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: Eliza, trying to come to the computer and PaB with focus and spaciousness?
Wol Euler: yes, please say more
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, exactly Maxine... really be here when here
Eliza Madrigal: really honor the time and space and those we're in company with
Eos Amaterasu: In SL and in RL, PaB attention in both
Wol Euler closes the e-mail window with a guilty expression.
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: I felt at the time that I'd love to hear from everyone about that... so many of us and I wondered about our habits, etc
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Wol :)
Fael Illyar meeps to Wol happily!
Wol Euler: in my defence, I usually don't do that :)
Eliza Madrigal: No 'rules' you know... but how do we hold the space?
Pema Pera tempted to send an email to Wol, to check :-)
Eliza Madrigal: and each other?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Fael Illyar: Wol, if you do make yourself a rule that you have to concentrate on these meetings when you're here, you'll find yourself coming less in a bit.
Fefonz Quan nods to Eliza. I do think it makes a big difference
Eliza Madrigal: its a way of appreciation, to just 'be' here when here
Maxine Walden: trying not to get too distracted by these various levels of communication, such as IM vs PaB texting
genesis Zhangsun: In way sometimes multi tasking does allow for a step back, and sometimes a step back in necessary to be there
Maxine Walden: less distraction and maybe more space to just be...
genesis Zhangsun: *is
Eos Amaterasu: there's no real rules, which is hardest of all: "to live outside the law you must be honest"
genesis Zhangsun: I think in general multitasking can be distraction, sometimes it can be a breather
Eliza Madrigal nods to Fael and Gen too... sometimes unavoidable or helpful but the intention seems to matter?
Eliza Madrigal: :) Eos
genesis Zhangsun: yes I think so Eliza
Maxine Walden: ah, I see the hour is up; I have to go, will look forward to posting the log
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Max
Liza Deischer: Ara seems to be suffering from (dis)appearance too
genesis Zhangsun: bye maxine
Agatha Macbeth nods
Liza Deischer: hi Cerise
Wol Euler: "Appreciate the Absence of Appearance as a Presentatoin by Being"?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Brittania :) Welcome. I've just given you a note about our group
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Wol
Pema Pera: I'll have to get going too -- thank you all for letting us share our experiences!
Liza Deischer: bye Pema
Bleu Oleander: thanks everyone
Wol Euler: thank you, Pema, take care
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
Eos Amaterasu: likewise taking Wol's maxim to heart :-)
Agatha Macbeth: And eos
Fefonz Quan: bye Pema!
Bleu Oleander: bfn all
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ya, Blue
Agatha Macbeth: And Bleu
Fael Illyar: have fun everyone :)
Bleu Oleander: cu
Yakuzza Lethecus: sry if someone might saw me in appearance mode it wasn´t shown to me in that way
Wol Euler: bye bleu
Liza Deischer: bye bleu
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eos
Liza Deischer: taking the short cut :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Fael Illyar waves happily.
Fefonz Quan: bye Fael :)
genesis Zhangsun: I am off too! Good night everyone.
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Gen :) Good to see you
stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
Scathach Rhiadra: Ciao Gen:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye everyone I'm off too, lots to things to think about from the session :))
Agatha Macbeth: Night Cutie Fael :)
Liza Deischer: bye Gen
Wol Euler: bye gen, take care
genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve, Sharon :)
Fefonz Quan: Night Gen, good to see you
genesis Zhangsun: night Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see you gain gen
Agatha Macbeth: And bye gen and SSL
genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you too Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: bye SSL, Yaku
Agatha Macbeth: Anybody left?
Wol Euler: :)
Liza Deischer: Hey!
Fefonz Quan: most of them :)
Wol Euler remembers an old song and smiles
Agatha Macbeth waves
Liza Deischer: stupid sounds those gestures :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
Wol Euler: heh, I thought that fael had snuck back in :)
Fefonz Quan: it's like the road runner
Wol Euler: -i
Liza Deischer: okay Agatha, you proved it, you can even do ir worse :-)
Liza Deischer: *it
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Liza Deischer: make it*
Agatha Macbeth: And do it worse too :)
Liza Deischer: okay :-)
Agatha Macbeth grins
Fefonz Quan: I'll go to sleep too, good night all!
Agatha Macbeth: C ya fonzie
Wol Euler: bye fef, sleep well
Liza Deischer: good night fonz
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Fefonz:)
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Fef :)
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Eliza Madrigal thinks she talked too much during the session... apologies...
Agatha Macbeth: Never!
Liza Deischer: not to me :-)
Wol Euler: no.
Eliza Madrigal: i'm just beginning to process the discussions :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: barely enough.
Liza Deischer: I think there was a pretty good balance of experiences from different people
Scathach Rhiadra: it sounded nice just having a small group
Eliza Madrigal: well thanks, glad to hear that
Agatha Macbeth: What's the average attendance then?
Eliza Madrigal: Malta was far more, as was the first California retreat
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Wol Euler: malta was ... eight? nine?
Eliza Madrigal: twice the size of this one even if we'd all made it actually...
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thought Malta was more
Eliza Madrigal: One funny thing was that though we didn't do a silent day, I felt very quiet much of the time
Agatha Macbeth: *You* felt quiet?
Scathach Rhiadra: not so much chit-chat?
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Wol Euler: you're right, we were ten.
Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Liza Deischer: need to get some work done
Liza Deischer: thank you for sharing Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Liza :)
Wol Euler: before midnight ;:)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
Wol Euler: bye liza, work well
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Liza:)
Agatha Macbeth: BFN Liza
Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
Wol Euler: there :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
Wol Euler: oh?
Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
Eliza Madrigal: I know one thing I did want to mention too....
Scathach Rhiadra: ?
Wol Euler: ah
Eliza Madrigal: that when I was finally home, though with the flu and very tired, I had a bit of a dip...
Agatha Macbeth: What?
Eliza Madrigal: like a discouragement
Wol Euler nods
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Eliza Madrigal: and I thought about you Wol, and asked myself if this was retreat related
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: reintegration
Eliza Madrigal: It helped! Just asking that helped
Wol Euler: the opposite of post-traumatic stress disorder :)
Wol Euler: post-euphoric delight disorder :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehheh yes!
Agatha Macbeth: Post retreat Disorder
Wol Euler: or that
Agatha Macbeth: PRD
Eliza Madrigal: it was an appearance, in a way
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: and because you'd talked about your experience, I had the question/distance to see it without being caught by it :)
Wol Euler: I decided that mine was a pretty big clue about what was important, and what was missing, in my RL
Eliza Madrigal: or at least it seems that way
Agatha Macbeth: After the problems you had getting back, I'm not surprised you felt low
Wol Euler: well, I'm very glad that it helped Eliza. That is exactly why I spoke about it.
Eliza Madrigal: I felt overwhelmed by all that I needed to catch up on, at a time when I wanted to be writing actually... and here too :)
Agatha Macbeth: CBE
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: cbe?
Agatha Macbeth: Can't Be everywhere
Wol Euler: heh
Eliza Madrigal: !
Wol Euler: nice
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: ;-)
Agatha Macbeth grins like a Cheshire cat (but remains visible)
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Eliza Madrigal: matches your hair
Agatha Macbeth: What does?
Eliza Madrigal: cheshire cat :) well... cheshire cat on fire
Agatha Macbeth: Didn't know they were red!
Agatha Macbeth: You learn something every day...
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha.... okay... getting silly
Agatha Macbeth: Me? Never!
Wol Euler: onigokko
Agatha Macbeth: DAAAAAAAAAAMN!
Eliza Madrigal: uh oh
Wol Euler: huh, none of us, apparently.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
Wol Euler: stop
Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off, great seeing you all, take care:)
Wol Euler: onigokko
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Scath. You too :))
Agatha Macbeth: C ya Scath
Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
Agatha Macbeth: Shalom
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste Scath :)
Eliza Madrigal: ohhhh dizzy
Wol Euler: stop
Eliza Madrigal: think my rl av needs to lay down :)
Agatha Macbeth: That looks really good from above
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: alt-click on the ground to detach your camera from yourself, that helps the dizziness
Wol Euler: oh, I just noticed your bindi. Nice!
Agatha Macbeth: What's a bindi?
Wol Euler: the Indian caste mark on the forehead
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
Agatha Macbeth: Caste adrift
Eliza Madrigal: evokes another kind of sight perhaps... av seeing as being
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: The eyes are cute too
Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks... I do like the eyes. I don't look 'normal' to myself without them
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: I know what you mean
Wol Euler: the details of apperance do come to feel like a part of us
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Eliza Madrigal: yup yup :)... like they help us get settled here
Eliza Madrigal: or settled in somehow... embedded enough to flow
Wol Euler nods.
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, really better go though. Thanks for playing :))
Wol Euler: thank you for coming, eliza. Get better soon
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Liz, take care :)
Eliza Madrigal: :::waves:::: Thanks Much :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yeah, get well
Wol Euler: I think our work here is done.
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Wol Euler: theme session? check. Onigokko? check.
Agatha Macbeth nods