2010.05.02 01:00 - Meditatiegroep

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Liza Deischer. The comments are by Liza Deischer.

    Qt Core: hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - quite "empty" this morning, here ! ?
    Bertram Jacobus: lol - said and changing :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hy liza
    Liza Deischer: hi guys
    Qt Core: hi liza
    Qt Core: yes, first people here beside me
    Liza Deischer: I'll be right back, but I am in pursue for a cup of coffee :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. i had my first cup just right "now" empty already :-/
    Bertram Jacobus: would be nice to have more ...
    Bertram Jacobus: but qt - what means "morporkian", please ?
    Qt Core: is the name of the inhabitants of Ankh Morpork, a fictional city that have its own sim in sl too
    Qt Core: is the main city in the Discworld universe, a humor/fantasy saga written by Terry Pratchett
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. i know that a bit
    Qt Core: very funny, almost crazy, but with a plot
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: very creative
    Bertram Jacobus: many ideas

    --BELL--

    Bertram Jacobus: the session has not yet claimed by a guardian ? i was already wondering, whether this wouldn´t be moons time slot (?) ...
    Qt Core: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: hmmm - strange ...
    Liza Deischer: b
    Bertram Jacobus: w
    Bertram Jacobus: which kind of meditation you do liza ?
    Liza Deischer: it is based on shamata vipashana
    Liza Deischer: but in the group I will also do some other things
    Bertram Jacobus: oh i see. that is more silent meditation ? or also with looking at special aspects of body, mind etc. ?
    Liza Deischer: because I took it out of the path, out of Buddhisme
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. i meant the group thing.
    Bertram Jacobus: sry. wasn´t very precise
    Liza Deischer: silence, but can also be a concentrated meditation
    Liza Deischer: well, in the beginning I won't be silent :-)
    Liza Deischer: I do some body work
    Bertram Jacobus: concentrate on what ? and again : i mean the group / vipassana i know a bit, also from a cloze friend of mine
    Liza Deischer: and also a visualization
    Liza Deischer: wel, becoming aware is the first stage, and we won't get further then that
    Bertram Jacobus: and from various books, also from goenka texts or of his disciples ...
    Liza Deischer: I use the guidelines of the meditation
    Bertram Jacobus: great. and how you reach that there, with which means ?
    Liza Deischer: focussing on dropping
    Bertram Jacobus: ah
    Liza Deischer: which is actually becoming aware
    Bertram Jacobus: cool
    Bertram Jacobus: hm
    Liza Deischer: getting there means that I make clear during the meditation how to approach thoughts, feelings, noises and things like that
    Liza Deischer: that's why I do a lot of talking in the beginning :-)
    Liza Deischer: *talking
    Liza Deischer: after a while you get the hang of it
    Bertram Jacobus: you know the bodhisattva thought ? do you think, an enlightened life with joy and playing would be possible ?
    Liza Deischer: enlightenment yes and also becoming a Buddha, I think we have that in us
    Bertram Jacobus: i know . but my question was another
    Bertram Jacobus: okay : one question
    Liza Deischer: but if enlightenment means joy and playing I don't know
    Bertram Jacobus: if an enlightened life, playful with having joy and fun is thinkable for you
    Liza Deischer: in the end I think you loose both
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay
    Bertram Jacobus: ty vm !
    Liza Deischer: 'loose'
    Liza Deischer: it is a different state of mind
    Bertram Jacobus: i know all the theories
    Bertram Jacobus: but my impression is also that bliss of getting more and more complete and perfect and developed - may be give also the possibilities of complete and unbounded joy. but i´m not sure ;-9
    Bertram Jacobus: bah - the ugly nine again - she may hinder all the bliss ! ;-)
    Liza Deischer: neither am I

    --BELL--

    Bertram Jacobus: I simply experience the joy of coming together and the pain of being divorced. so my idea is that when all is joined ( = enlightenment ? ) - joy also could be all including, "simply an attribute" - is that understandable ?
    Liza Deischer: sure
    Bertram Jacobus: great !
    Liza Deischer: well if I look at teachers, I do see happy faces
    Liza Deischer: a twinkling in their eyes
    Liza Deischer: but when they are concentrating, they look pretty serious :-)
    Liza Deischer: so, that is what I notice
    Liza Deischer: and being connected is giving some feeling of fulness I guess
    Liza Deischer: but that is mine little mind looking at it ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i have a problem with the money aspects in the modern spiritual world i must admit ... often, too often (?) that can be a problem . jesus and the buddha seem not to have acted with that ... and also pab doesn´t ! :-)
    Liza Deischer: I understand
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)) ty !
    Liza Deischer: it is actually about virtue, and most buddhist organizations have money to provide for those who can't pay
    Liza Deischer: but money is for me a problem too
    Liza Deischer: it is hard for me to ask money for the things I do
    Liza Deischer: but you know paying a teacher, means that he can teach
    Liza Deischer: and doesn't have to provide for himself in a different way
    Bertram Jacobus: is there / do you practise vipassana only in the goenka tradition and / or are there other orientations, too ?
    Liza Deischer: there are and I am Gelugpa
    Bertram Jacobus: i mean only vipassana with this question
    Liza Deischer: btw :-)
    Liza Deischer: can't find the word at the moment
    Liza Deischer: I can say it every time of the day, except now :-)
    Liza Deischer: there is another approach used in Tibetan meditation
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. i know and don´t find it either *smile* but you mean the vipassana practise at the gelugpas ? :-)
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: i practised tibetan approaches for a bit more then 10 years ...
    Bertram Jacobus: not that long
    Liza Deischer: no it is not Gelugpas it is Nyingma I think
    Bertram Jacobus: but so i know it a bit
    Bertram Jacobus: at least theoretically, also
    Liza Deischer: then you are more familiar with it then I am :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. but always one never knows what the other may know -
    Liza Deischer: due to my ME I can't practise that much
    Liza Deischer: I would like to do more
    Bertram Jacobus: "ha !" - nice explanation
    Bertram Jacobus: and i know that wish very well
    Liza Deischer: thanks
    Liza Deischer: Dzogchen
    Liza Deischer: and of course you have......
    Liza Deischer: brb
    Bertram Jacobus: but i for myself took a kinda pause now, relax or whatever i don´t know, may it be wu wei, playing enlightenment, or pantha rei or simply lazyness - i don´t know ... but it feels quite fine i like to admit or say ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah, dzogchen ! i have ... what ? ;-)

    --BELL--

    Bertram Jacobus: and i practise so to stay free at the moment, mostly silent meditation, sometimes rezitations, seldom visualizations ...
    Liza Deischer: and Lojong and Tonglen
    Liza Deischer: I understand
    Liza Deischer: well I also practice buddhism
    Liza Deischer: so that is full of visualizations
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ! the lojong sentences for me also are very ... nice
    Bertram Jacobus: but tonglen i find very difficult when one tries to do it really deeply
    Liza Deischer: it is
    Liza Deischer: for as far as I have been trying it
    Liza Deischer: it is pretty confronting
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i feel similar
    Bertram Jacobus: and i can give 95 % or so but 100 % - i don´t feel able ...
    Liza Deischer: I find that difficult with most practices, if you get to the edge of really letting go
    Liza Deischer: ego is struggling there
    Liza Deischer: of course this is Moon's session
    Bertram Jacobus: thinking / trying to feel about that ...
    Liza Deischer: I miss the flowers :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hopefully it´s no serious harm with him - he was in hospital only few weeks ago (!) ...
    Liza Deischer: oh, in that case, I hope so too
    Liza Deischer: I've seen his avatar not longer then a week ago
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i saw him still yesterday i guess, but ... (see above) -
    Qt Core: yes, he was here last sunday
    Liza Deischer: okay
    Qt Core: maybe he just overslept ;-)
    Liza Deischer: I hope so
    Bertram Jacobus: so we can do these "good wishes" for him at least (and for all beings, for sure, as always i think) ... what may be that what we in former days may have called "prayers" (?) ...
    Liza Deischer: yes, we can
    Bertram Jacobus: when do you your meditation classes liza ?
    Liza Deischer: i start tomorrow and thursday
    Bertram Jacobus: so mondays and thursdays ? where ? do you have a note about it ? when ? which time ? ;-)
    Liza Deischer: two different groups
    Liza Deischer: I do have a note, but if you're interested I need to know you're coming
    Liza Deischer: Monday's is full
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. no. can´t or don´t like to fix myself in that way at the moment. sry. but thank you VERY much for having given me impressions of what you will do and the note liza !

    --BELL--

    Liza Deischer: yw
    Liza Deischer: and don't be sorry :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: okaiii :-)
    Liza Deischer: I need to go
    Liza Deischer: see you next time
    Qt Core: bye Liza
    Bertram Jacobus: so i´ll leave now - ty again both for the nice meeting, was happy to listen, having felt understood .- all very nice - may all beings be happy please ! *wave*
    Liza Deischer: bye guys
    Liza Deischer: thanks Bertram :-)
    Qt Core: yes, a nice listen session for me too ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i appreciate also when people are not simply away i must admit ( so much to admit !) ... *wave again* ;o)
    Bertram Jacobus: so ty also qt ! - whooos
    Bertram Jacobus: + h

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