2010.07.08 13:00 - open questions

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.



    Poor Bertram had been sick for a while..

    Bertram Jacobus: hi lia, hi bruce :-)
    Lia Rikugun: hi bertram hi bruc
    Lia Rikugun: bruce
    Bertram Jacobus: that´s okay - we all know that ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and you are a peacemaker - how nice ! :-)
    Lia Rikugun: bruce hav you been here before are you familiar with Play as Being?
    Bertram Jacobus: he was i guess and he seems to be crashed
    Lia Rikugun: and gone now..
    Lia Rikugun: bertram wie geht es dir?
    Bertram Jacobus: yess. sl requires some performance from our computers ...
    Lia Rikugun: yes my laptop seems to be old now too
    Lia Rikugun: slow slow
    Bertram Jacobus: i have a exhausting time again and was three days VERY ill - just a few minutes before first time bit lighter (hurray)
    Lia Rikugun: oh i am sorry to hear you were ill
    Lia Rikugun: now you are feeling better?
    Bertram Jacobus: heavy heavy throat pain and some more stuff ... but ok, normal life, will dissappear again :-)
    Lia Rikugun: tea and fruits
    Lia Rikugun: but tea is difficult with this weather
    Lia Rikugun: welcome back bruce
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ! as i said : first time since days that i can gulp again without hughe pain since days ! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: whew --- just experienced emptiness, there.
    Bertram Jacobus: great bruce ! :-9
    Lia Rikugun: ph poor bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s okay ... now ... ty
    Lia Rikugun: i hope you can feel better soon
    Bertram Jacobus: hy yaku
    Lia Rikugun: hello yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Lia Rikugun: hello fox
    Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Yaku.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox :)
    Fox Monacular: hello everybody!
    Bertram Jacobus: i even couldn´t drink orangejuice ! - only hot drinks the doctor said - and orange juice made pain (!) ...
    Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Fox.
    Bertram Jacobus: hi fox :-9


    retired or not retired that is here the question.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: btw. are you retired bruce ?
    Lia Rikugun: yes it is acid
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i wonder because you attend so many events :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yes -- happily retired.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hit me if i am impolite :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: no problem!
    Bertram Jacobus: great, wonderful bruce !
    Bertram Jacobus: hey qt :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: qt :)
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Lia Rikugun: hello Qt
    Bruce Mowbray: but you, too, Yaku -- attend those same events.... so . . . You're retired also?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Qt.
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: haha :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that will take another 40 years
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear. . .
    Bertram Jacobus: but you´re much out of work yaku ? sry - don´t checked it how your situation is ... many days off ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, i just start at 6 am CET in the morning
    Qt Core: retirement ? that's so ols fashioned, from the last millennium ! :-) :-(
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ok. then i know again thx yaku
    Lia Rikugun: i would be asleep already if i had to work that early
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i finish work at 14:45 in the afternoon right now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we don´t do the lunchbreak so it´s earlier when i get home
    Bertram Jacobus: i would love retirement
    Lia Rikugun: me too :)
    Qt Core: great solution for the summer yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s not allowed by law here, but it´s a small company


    hot hot

    Bertram Jacobus: and it´s really hot here, tomorrow shall be 36 ° (!)
    Lia Rikugun: oh my
    Yakuzza Lethecus: don´t remind me on that :(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still 29°C in the room here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: with open window
    Bertram Jacobus: and i have a cold, can´t use ventilators ...
    Lia Rikugun: this is annoying
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry to hear bert
    Bertram Jacobus: ah 26,4 here now ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: having a cold in the middle of summer
    Bruce Mowbray: so HOT here that I'm spending the day in the public library. letting them pay for A/C and internet connection.
    Bertram Jacobus: yes - i heard it a few times in the last days : summer cold ... hm
    Fox Monacular: it's really terrible here... 35-40 C
    Lia Rikugun: where are you fox?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Ur still in Boston ?
    Fox Monacular: close to Montreal now for summer
    Qt Core: a little over 30 here the bad thing is humidity, 90%
    Bertram Jacobus: the clima changing seems having reached us now ...
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s interesting, what one or to more degrees may mean ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ooops - missed the pause completly (very obviously) - sry
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: would be thankful for a "shhh" sometimes - but i know : some don´t like it ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hi eos ! :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
    Lia Rikugun: hello eos
    Fox Monacular: Hi Eos!
    Qt Core: hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: foxy lady!
    Fox Monacular: long time no see:)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi QT, Yak,Lia, Bert, Bruce


    how did Bruce find PaB?

    Bertram Jacobus: bruce - may i ask : how did you find us ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hey wol ! :-)
    Wol Euler: hello eveyrone
    Fox Monacular: Hi Wol!
    Lia Rikugun: hello wol
    Qt Core: Hi Wol
    Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Wol.
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: (sorry to interrupt, please continue)
    Bertram Jacobus: nothing happend wol ;-)
    Wol Euler: please start, then :)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Bertram Jacobus: with what, for example ? :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Sorry, Bert -- I didn't see your question -- I followed Yaku to this place --That's how i found it.
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. oke. ty bruce - didn´t want to insist ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: was one of my first hints in sl which i got from somebody in english : don´t insist ;-))
    Bruce Mowbray: been attending for about three days so far.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: brb, tea is stewing
    Fox Monacular: :0
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - tea ... i´d like to have icetea ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: I can offer coffee to anyone who wants it --
    Fox Monacular: hot tea actually helps in the heat... paradoxically
    Bertram Jacobus: you can push it trough the internet wires bruce !? :-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: anyone else for coffee/tea?
    Lia Rikugun: thank you bruce
    Bertram Jacobus: lol. okay. ty bruce ;-)


    dreaming as fully sensorial

    Eos Amaterasu: SL is not as fully sensorial a virtual medium as is dreaming
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t find it so paradox fox : when the drink is hot, outside is cool in relation to that
    Fox Monacular: true, but one can pretend:)
    Fox Monacular: you're probably right Bertram:)
    Eos Amaterasu: the taste is in the eye of the beholder
    Lia Rikugun: i often had this feeling
    Bruce Mowbray: ouch!
    Fox Monacular: it's bad news when it's in the eye....
    Eos Amaterasu: hot?
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: hearing sounds which wehere very real but not actually there, like music in the head :)
    Lia Rikugun: after paying the instrument like an echo
    Lia Rikugun: but its quite real
    Lia Rikugun: and i can feel it
    Lia Rikugun: was always wondering about that
    Bruce Mowbray: I remember well the very first time I listened to stereo music through headphones --- amazing to have it moving around inside my cranium.
    Fox Monacular: I'm still amazed, Bruce!:)
    Eos Amaterasu: LIa, what was the context for that experience?
    Lia Rikugun: i think this happens some times after i practice the instrimunt
    Lia Rikugun: i hear the play
    Lia Rikugun: and it is there
    Lia Rikugun: i guess you had similar experiences
    Lia Rikugun: but somehow i think it is interesting


    Sabia a new visitor joins us

    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sabia!
    Lia Rikugun: hello sabia
    Sabia Innovia: Hi! Let me take a seat!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello sabia
    Fox Monacular: yes, I've had similar experiences, you practice your instrument, and then you hear someone else play the same instrumnet, and you can physically feel when the part gets too difficlt for you!
    Wol Euler: hello sabia
    Bertram Jacobus: hi sabea :-)
    Sabia Innovia: Where am I?? lol
    Sabia Innovia: My friend Bruce invited me!
    Lia Rikugun: welcome sabia
    Bruce Mowbray: I've just sent you an IM, Sabia.
    Lia Rikugun: you just arrived before the break
    Sabia Innovia: Ok!
    Bertram Jacobus: at pab pavillion - i think, someone will give you a nc sabia ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: we are recordin the chat -- no voice. We need you permission for your chat to be recorded.
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - bruce already does the professional job ! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: for the wiki website.
    Lia Rikugun: we have a wiki online
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Wol Euler: well, we usually express it as a quesiton, bruce :)
    Lia Rikugun: where all chat logs from every sessions are saved
    Wol Euler: "may we have your permission etc"
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe wol ... okay ... may be, i was not subtile enough ?
    Sabia Innovia: What is the purpose of this place?
    Lia Rikugun: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Lia Rikugun: we try to take a few breaks during the day
    Wol Euler: we are a meditation group, Sabia, we meet here to discuss a particular set of practices
    Bertram Jacobus: to research being ? :-)
    Wol Euler: and that.
    Sabia Innovia: OK! I'm bringing up that URL right now...
    Bertram Jacobus: many people, many answers ...
    Lia Rikugun: it gives a little introduction and you can see the chat logs from older sessions
    Lia Rikugun: we discuss here our experiences during meditation
    Qt Core: sadly i have to go, bye all. Have fun!
    Lia Rikugun: bye Qt
    Wol Euler: bye qt
    Bertram Jacobus: many words for the unexpressible ? :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
    Bertram Jacobus: bye qt - same for you !
    Bruce Mowbray: Walk in beauty, Qt.
    Eos Amaterasu: to research being within the view that it is being playing as us investigating being
    Bertram Jacobus: but not only that eos (?)
    Eos Amaterasu: that's one view of it :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: pheww ...
    Bertram Jacobus: okay ! :-)
    Sabia Innovia: I think this sounds really neat and i want to explore it further but I need to get back to my store and make shoes! ;)
    Lia Rikugun: ok nice to have you here
    Bruce Mowbray: OK --Sabia. Have a good day.
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!
    Lia Rikugun: bye bye sabia
    Wol Euler: bye sabia, build well
    Sabia Innovia: Thank you! I will come back again! Thank you, Bruce!
    Bertram Jacobus: okay sabia - enjoy ! and come back if you like

    experiencing things which are not there in real

    Bruce Mowbray: Lia, for how long to you hear the sounds after practicing the instrument?
    Lia Rikugun: well it is not always the case
    Lia Rikugun: i guess only if i am really into it
    Lia Rikugun: and only as long as i want to :)
    Lia Rikugun: sometimes it can be like an orchestra
    Lia Rikugun: but i am always fascinated what the mind can do
    Eos Amaterasu: I have heard extremely beautiful music in my dreams, and wondered who was composing it
    Bertram Jacobus: i only once had a very special experience : wake up in the morning and had a whole orchestra with somewhat in my head - many instruments, very special - but sadly forgot or better : missed to write that down ...
    Lia Rikugun: the input doesnt come from outside
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Lia Rikugun: i am wondering too wher does this come from
    Lia Rikugun: and why does it feel so real?
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, it´s also ok, sometimes not to know ...
    Lia Rikugun: even if its not
    Lia Rikugun: yes but i like to have the question
    Lia Rikugun: i dont need to know
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: and i like the pauses also, from questions and answers ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i experience those pauses as a form of freedom, very nice ...

    "staying in an open question"

    Eos Amaterasu: I suppose staying in an open question is also a form of freedom
    Eos Amaterasu: I think we often walk around with a certain level of anxiety and uncertainty
    Wol Euler nods.
    Lia Rikugun: i think there are questions you cannot answer
    Eos Amaterasu: the energy of that could be "let go", "allowed", into that kind of openness?
    Lia Rikugun: but this doesnt mean there is no point in asking
    Eos Amaterasu: it's important to ask
    Lia Rikugun: frees up the mind
    Eos Amaterasu: otherwise you stay more superficiial than you need to be
    Bertram Jacobus: but only to a certain point, no ? like the buddha recommended : the middle path ?
    Lia Rikugun: what d you mean bertram?
    Bertram Jacobus: that one also can ask too much
    Bertram Jacobus: and too few
    Lia Rikugun: ah
    Bruce Mowbray muses to himself: like a koan - stay open to no-answer.
    Eos Amaterasu: hanging out with not-knowing is good antidote to hanging out with what we know, or think we know, which adds up to "me and my world"
    Lia Rikugun: havent thought about that bertram


    Heidegger: "original questioning"

    Eos Amaterasu: This is probably related to what Heidegger calls "original questioning"
    Lia Rikugun: i am not so familiar with that eos
    Eos Amaterasu: you get to an "origin" point, because to question the question is to ask the question again
    Eos Amaterasu: and then we're sitting in nowness (being-time)
    Eos Amaterasu: you get deeper into the origin of the question
    Eos Amaterasu: rather than out to something which stops the question
    Eos Amaterasu: the origin of a question is not an answer
    Eos Amaterasu wonders if he's starting to sound mystical
    Lia Rikugun: yes definitely!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Lia Rikugun: but i like it
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Bruce Mowbray muses to himself again: I like the idea of 'riding' on a question through time/space/mind.
    Lia Rikugun: so somehow an original questions keeps all possibilities open?
    Bertram Jacobus smiles and says goodbye - have a nice time all. ty for the group ! may all beings be happy plz ! namaste ...
    Wol Euler: bye bert, take care
    Lia Rikugun: bye bertram
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, I think you run into the open nature of your own mind, maybe more than just your own mind
    Eos Amaterasu: bye bert
    Bruce Mowbray: be well, bert!
    Bertram Jacobus: ty again all !
    Bruce Mowbray: a good plance to hang out and experience no-separation.
    Bruce Mowbray: place.
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye all, thanks - must go make supper
    Lia Rikugun: bye eos
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eos
    Wol Euler: bye eos, bon appetit
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Eos!
    Lia Rikugun: nice to see you


    Bruce has a funny fish "Blub" which smims in circles around him :)

    Lia Rikugun: i love your fish bruce
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is there a wok session now ?
    Lia Rikugun: its so funny!
    Wol Euler: thursday? maybe
    Bruce Mowbray: Blub just woke up. He enjoys your attension.
    Lia Rikugun: thank you for the nice session
    Bruce Mowbray: ... attention, but in meditation groups I ask Blub to stop swimming.
    Lia Rikugun: i will hury to go to bed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well lia
    Wol Euler: goodnight lia, schlaf gut
    Lia Rikugun: thank you see you all soon


    I left at this point..

    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Lia. I must also be going.
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: you too, Yaku.
    Wol Euler stretches and yawns.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i also stand up from my chair right before you typed that :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: going somewhere nice?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, only to bring the metabolism back to live
    Wol Euler: hello aggers!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey aga
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Wol, Yaku :)
    Wol Euler: we're in a silent mood
    Wol Euler: channeling Miles Davis
    Agatha Macbeth: What has Miles davis to do with it?
    Agatha Macbeth: Unless he brings his sax od course
    Agatha Macbeth: of
    Wol Euler: spoiled my own joke. should have been "in a silent way"
    Wol Euler: ah well
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Agatha Macbeth: Nevr mind
    Agatha Macbeth: How did things go at work today?
    Wol Euler: nobody died, which was good.
    Wol Euler: but nothing was settled, which is not good
    Wol Euler: boss is pretty pissed
    Agatha Macbeth: Not surprised
    Wol Euler: um, better stop the recorder if I'm going to talk about work

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