2010.07.08 13:00 - open questions

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

Poor Bertram had been sick for a while..

Bertram Jacobus: hi lia, hi bruce :-)
Lia Rikugun: hi bertram hi bruc
Lia Rikugun: bruce
Bertram Jacobus: that´s okay - we all know that ... ;-)
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: and you are a peacemaker - how nice ! :-)
Lia Rikugun: bruce hav you been here before are you familiar with Play as Being?
Bertram Jacobus: he was i guess and he seems to be crashed
Lia Rikugun: and gone now..
Lia Rikugun: bertram wie geht es dir?
Bertram Jacobus: yess. sl requires some performance from our computers ...
Lia Rikugun: yes my laptop seems to be old now too
Lia Rikugun: slow slow
Bertram Jacobus: i have a exhausting time again and was three days VERY ill - just a few minutes before first time bit lighter (hurray)
Lia Rikugun: oh i am sorry to hear you were ill
Lia Rikugun: now you are feeling better?
Bertram Jacobus: heavy heavy throat pain and some more stuff ... but ok, normal life, will dissappear again :-)
Lia Rikugun: tea and fruits
Lia Rikugun: but tea is difficult with this weather
Lia Rikugun: welcome back bruce
Bertram Jacobus: yes ! as i said : first time since days that i can gulp again without hughe pain since days ! :-)
Bruce Mowbray: whew --- just experienced emptiness, there.
Bertram Jacobus: great bruce ! :-9
Lia Rikugun: ph poor bertram
Bertram Jacobus: it´s okay ... now ... ty
Lia Rikugun: i hope you can feel better soon
Bertram Jacobus: hy yaku
Lia Rikugun: hello yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Lia Rikugun: hello fox
Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Yaku.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox :)
Fox Monacular: hello everybody!
Bertram Jacobus: i even couldn´t drink orangejuice ! - only hot drinks the doctor said - and orange juice made pain (!) ...
Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Fox.
Bertram Jacobus: hi fox :-9

retired or not retired that is here the question.

Yakuzza Lethecus: btw. are you retired bruce ?
Lia Rikugun: yes it is acid
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: i wonder because you attend so many events :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes -- happily retired.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hit me if i am impolite :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: no problem!
Bertram Jacobus: great, wonderful bruce !
Bertram Jacobus: hey qt :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: qt :)
Qt Core: Hi all
Lia Rikugun: hello Qt
Bruce Mowbray: but you, too, Yaku -- attend those same events.... so . . . You're retired also?
Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Qt.
Lia Rikugun: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: haha :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: that will take another 40 years
Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear. . .
Bertram Jacobus: but you´re much out of work yaku ? sry - don´t checked it how your situation is ... many days off ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no, i just start at 6 am CET in the morning
Qt Core: retirement ? that's so ols fashioned, from the last millennium ! :-) :-(
Bertram Jacobus: ah ok. then i know again thx yaku
Lia Rikugun: i would be asleep already if i had to work that early
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i finish work at 14:45 in the afternoon right now
Yakuzza Lethecus: we don´t do the lunchbreak so it´s earlier when i get home
Bertram Jacobus: i would love retirement
Lia Rikugun: me too :)
Qt Core: great solution for the summer yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s not allowed by law here, but it´s a small company

hot hot

Bertram Jacobus: and it´s really hot here, tomorrow shall be 36 ° (!)
Lia Rikugun: oh my
Yakuzza Lethecus: don´t remind me on that :(
Yakuzza Lethecus: still 29°C in the room here
Yakuzza Lethecus: with open window
Bertram Jacobus: and i have a cold, can´t use ventilators ...
Lia Rikugun: this is annoying
Yakuzza Lethecus: sry to hear bert
Bertram Jacobus: ah 26,4 here now ;-)
Lia Rikugun: having a cold in the middle of summer
Bruce Mowbray: so HOT here that I'm spending the day in the public library. letting them pay for A/C and internet connection.
Bertram Jacobus: yes - i heard it a few times in the last days : summer cold ... hm
Fox Monacular: it's really terrible here... 35-40 C
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: where are you fox?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Ur still in Boston ?
Fox Monacular: close to Montreal now for summer
Qt Core: a little over 30 here the bad thing is humidity, 90%
Bertram Jacobus: the clima changing seems having reached us now ...
Bertram Jacobus: it´s interesting, what one or to more degrees may mean ...
Bertram Jacobus: ooops - missed the pause completly (very obviously) - sry
Lia Rikugun: :)
Bertram Jacobus: would be thankful for a "shhh" sometimes - but i know : some don´t like it ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: hi eos ! :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
Lia Rikugun: hello eos
Fox Monacular: Hi Eos!
Qt Core: hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: foxy lady!
Fox Monacular: long time no see:)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi QT, Yak,Lia, Bert, Bruce

how did Bruce find PaB?

Bertram Jacobus: bruce - may i ask : how did you find us ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: hey wol ! :-)
Wol Euler: hello eveyrone
Fox Monacular: Hi Wol!
Lia Rikugun: hello wol
Qt Core: Hi Wol
Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Wol.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: (sorry to interrupt, please continue)
Bertram Jacobus: nothing happend wol ;-)
Wol Euler: please start, then :)
Bertram Jacobus: lol
Bertram Jacobus: with what, for example ? :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Sorry, Bert -- I didn't see your question -- I followed Yaku to this place --That's how i found it.
Bertram Jacobus: ah. oke. ty bruce - didn´t want to insist ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: was one of my first hints in sl which i got from somebody in english : don´t insist ;-))
Bruce Mowbray: been attending for about three days so far.
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: brb, tea is stewing
Fox Monacular: :0
Fox Monacular: :)
Bertram Jacobus: whaow - tea ... i´d like to have icetea ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: I can offer coffee to anyone who wants it --
Fox Monacular: hot tea actually helps in the heat... paradoxically
Bertram Jacobus: you can push it trough the internet wires bruce !? :-)
Lia Rikugun: :)
Bruce Mowbray: anyone else for coffee/tea?
Lia Rikugun: thank you bruce
Bertram Jacobus: lol. okay. ty bruce ;-)

dreaming as fully sensorial

Eos Amaterasu: SL is not as fully sensorial a virtual medium as is dreaming
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t find it so paradox fox : when the drink is hot, outside is cool in relation to that
Fox Monacular: true, but one can pretend:)
Fox Monacular: you're probably right Bertram:)
Eos Amaterasu: the taste is in the eye of the beholder
Lia Rikugun: i often had this feeling
Bruce Mowbray: ouch!
Fox Monacular: it's bad news when it's in the eye....
Eos Amaterasu: hot?
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Lia Rikugun: hearing sounds which wehere very real but not actually there, like music in the head :)
Lia Rikugun: after paying the instrument like an echo
Lia Rikugun: but its quite real
Lia Rikugun: and i can feel it
Lia Rikugun: was always wondering about that
Bruce Mowbray: I remember well the very first time I listened to stereo music through headphones --- amazing to have it moving around inside my cranium.
Fox Monacular: I'm still amazed, Bruce!:)
Eos Amaterasu: LIa, what was the context for that experience?
Lia Rikugun: i think this happens some times after i practice the instrimunt
Lia Rikugun: i hear the play
Lia Rikugun: and it is there
Lia Rikugun: i guess you had similar experiences
Lia Rikugun: but somehow i think it is interesting

Sabia a new visitor joins us

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sabia!
Lia Rikugun: hello sabia
Sabia Innovia: Hi! Let me take a seat!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello sabia
Fox Monacular: yes, I've had similar experiences, you practice your instrument, and then you hear someone else play the same instrumnet, and you can physically feel when the part gets too difficlt for you!
--BELL--
Wol Euler: hello sabia
Bertram Jacobus: hi sabea :-)
Sabia Innovia: Where am I?? lol
Sabia Innovia: My friend Bruce invited me!
Lia Rikugun: welcome sabia
Bruce Mowbray: I've just sent you an IM, Sabia.
Lia Rikugun: you just arrived before the break
Sabia Innovia: Ok!
Bertram Jacobus: at pab pavillion - i think, someone will give you a nc sabia ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: we are recordin the chat -- no voice. We need you permission for your chat to be recorded.
Bertram Jacobus: whaow - bruce already does the professional job ! :-)
Bruce Mowbray: for the wiki website.
Lia Rikugun: we have a wiki online
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Wol Euler: well, we usually express it as a quesiton, bruce :)
Lia Rikugun: where all chat logs from every sessions are saved
Wol Euler: "may we have your permission etc"
Bertram Jacobus: hehe wol ... okay ... may be, i was not subtile enough ?
Sabia Innovia: What is the purpose of this place?
Lia Rikugun: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Lia Rikugun: we try to take a few breaks during the day
Wol Euler: we are a meditation group, Sabia, we meet here to discuss a particular set of practices
Bertram Jacobus: to research being ? :-)
Wol Euler: and that.
Sabia Innovia: OK! I'm bringing up that URL right now...
Bertram Jacobus: many people, many answers ...
Lia Rikugun: it gives a little introduction and you can see the chat logs from older sessions
Lia Rikugun: we discuss here our experiences during meditation
Qt Core: sadly i have to go, bye all. Have fun!
Lia Rikugun: bye Qt
Wol Euler: bye qt
Bertram Jacobus: many words for the unexpressible ? :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
Bertram Jacobus: bye qt - same for you !
Bruce Mowbray: Walk in beauty, Qt.
Eos Amaterasu: to research being within the view that it is being playing as us investigating being
Bertram Jacobus: but not only that eos (?)
Eos Amaterasu: that's one view of it :-)
Bertram Jacobus: pheww ...
Bertram Jacobus: okay ! :-)
Sabia Innovia: I think this sounds really neat and i want to explore it further but I need to get back to my store and make shoes! ;)
Lia Rikugun: ok nice to have you here
Bruce Mowbray: OK --Sabia. Have a good day.
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!
Lia Rikugun: bye bye sabia
Wol Euler: bye sabia, build well
Sabia Innovia: Thank you! I will come back again! Thank you, Bruce!
Bertram Jacobus: okay sabia - enjoy ! and come back if you like

experiencing things which are not there in real

Bruce Mowbray: Lia, for how long to you hear the sounds after practicing the instrument?
Lia Rikugun: well it is not always the case
Lia Rikugun: i guess only if i am really into it
Lia Rikugun: and only as long as i want to :)
Lia Rikugun: sometimes it can be like an orchestra
Lia Rikugun: but i am always fascinated what the mind can do
Eos Amaterasu: I have heard extremely beautiful music in my dreams, and wondered who was composing it
Bertram Jacobus: i only once had a very special experience : wake up in the morning and had a whole orchestra with somewhat in my head - many instruments, very special - but sadly forgot or better : missed to write that down ...
Lia Rikugun: the input doesnt come from outside
Lia Rikugun: yes
Lia Rikugun: i am wondering too wher does this come from
Lia Rikugun: and why does it feel so real?
Bertram Jacobus: for me, it´s also ok, sometimes not to know ...
Lia Rikugun: even if its not
Lia Rikugun: yes but i like to have the question
Lia Rikugun: i dont need to know
Wol Euler: :)
Bertram Jacobus: and i like the pauses also, from questions and answers ...
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i experience those pauses as a form of freedom, very nice ...
 

"staying in an open question"

Eos Amaterasu: I suppose staying in an open question is also a form of freedom
Eos Amaterasu: I think we often walk around with a certain level of anxiety and uncertainty
Wol Euler nods.
Lia Rikugun: i think there are questions you cannot answer
Eos Amaterasu: the energy of that could be "let go", "allowed", into that kind of openness?
Lia Rikugun: but this doesnt mean there is no point in asking
Eos Amaterasu: it's important to ask
Lia Rikugun: frees up the mind
Eos Amaterasu: otherwise you stay more superficiial than you need to be
Bertram Jacobus: but only to a certain point, no ? like the buddha recommended : the middle path ?
Lia Rikugun: what d you mean bertram?
Bertram Jacobus: that one also can ask too much
Bertram Jacobus: and too few
Lia Rikugun: ah
Bruce Mowbray muses to himself: like a koan - stay open to no-answer.
Eos Amaterasu: hanging out with not-knowing is good antidote to hanging out with what we know, or think we know, which adds up to "me and my world"
Lia Rikugun: havent thought about that bertram

Heidegger: "original questioning"

Eos Amaterasu: This is probably related to what Heidegger calls "original questioning"
Lia Rikugun: i am not so familiar with that eos
Eos Amaterasu: you get to an "origin" point, because to question the question is to ask the question again
Eos Amaterasu: and then we're sitting in nowness (being-time)
Eos Amaterasu: you get deeper into the origin of the question
Eos Amaterasu: rather than out to something which stops the question
Eos Amaterasu: the origin of a question is not an answer
Eos Amaterasu wonders if he's starting to sound mystical
Lia Rikugun: yes definitely!
Wol Euler: :)
Lia Rikugun: but i like it
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Lia Rikugun: :)
Bruce Mowbray muses to himself again: I like the idea of 'riding' on a question through time/space/mind.
Lia Rikugun: so somehow an original questions keeps all possibilities open?
Bertram Jacobus smiles and says goodbye - have a nice time all. ty for the group ! may all beings be happy plz ! namaste ...
Wol Euler: bye bert, take care
Lia Rikugun: bye bertram
Eos Amaterasu: yes, I think you run into the open nature of your own mind, maybe more than just your own mind
Eos Amaterasu: bye bert
Bruce Mowbray: be well, bert!
Bertram Jacobus: ty again all !
Bruce Mowbray: a good plance to hang out and experience no-separation.
Bruce Mowbray: place.
Eos Amaterasu: Bye all, thanks - must go make supper
Lia Rikugun: bye eos
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eos
Wol Euler: bye eos, bon appetit
Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Eos!
Lia Rikugun: nice to see you

Bruce has a funny fish "Blub" which smims in circles around him :)

Lia Rikugun: i love your fish bruce
Yakuzza Lethecus: is there a wok session now ?
Lia Rikugun: its so funny!
Wol Euler: thursday? maybe
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Blub just woke up. He enjoys your attension.
Lia Rikugun: thank you for the nice session
Bruce Mowbray: ... attention, but in meditation groups I ask Blub to stop swimming.
Lia Rikugun: i will hury to go to bed
Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well lia
Wol Euler: goodnight lia, schlaf gut
Lia Rikugun: thank you see you all soon

I left at this point..

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Lia. I must also be going.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care bruce
Bruce Mowbray: you too, Yaku.
Wol Euler stretches and yawns.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i also stand up from my chair right before you typed that :)
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: going somewhere nice?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no, only to bring the metabolism back to live
Wol Euler: hello aggers!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey aga
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Wol, Yaku :)
Wol Euler: we're in a silent mood
Wol Euler: channeling Miles Davis
Agatha Macbeth: What has Miles davis to do with it?
Agatha Macbeth: Unless he brings his sax od course
Agatha Macbeth: of
Wol Euler: spoiled my own joke. should have been "in a silent way"
Wol Euler: ah well
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Agatha Macbeth: Nevr mind
Agatha Macbeth: How did things go at work today?
Wol Euler: nobody died, which was good.
Wol Euler: but nothing was settled, which is not good
Wol Euler: boss is pretty pissed
Agatha Macbeth: Not surprised
Wol Euler: um, better stop the recorder if I'm going to talk about work