2010.07.27 19:00 - Question Deepening Devices

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

    Initial greetings...

    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pila (we're in the gap with no closing bell :-)

    Pila Mulligan: ah, ok ...

    Pila Mulligan: quiet forever?

    Eos Amaterasu: quiet encompassing everything

    Pila Mulligan: hi Cal

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening :)

    Pila Mulligan: how are you both this evening?

    Eos Amaterasu: Pretty well....

    Eos Amaterasu: saw some very vivid evening sunlight streaming through the forest trees today


     Upcoming RL retreat at Windhorse Farm in Nova Scotia

    Pila Mulligan: is everything prepared for the retreat next week?

    Eos Amaterasu: Heh... lots of details emerging into focus

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: just took care of the food preferences question

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm feeling good tonight too, overall

    Eos Amaterasu: I'm looking forward to the forest being the container for the retreat

    Eos Amaterasu: where we "rez", so to speak

    Pila Mulligan: the devil is in the details they say

    Pila Mulligan: so the gods must be in the larger frame of thinigs

    Calvino Rabeni: Ah but the saying was also "God and the Devil is in the details"

    Eos Amaterasu: there is the god of small things (novel by Arundhati Roy)

    Pila Mulligan: hmmm :)

    Eos Amaterasu: like that better, Calvino

    Eos Amaterasu: seems more true


    Sayings contracting... 

    Calvino Rabeni: There is a linguistic tendency for sayings to contract

    Calvino Rabeni: so one might often wonder what they used to be

    Calvino Rabeni: such as - what came before "the proof is in the pudding" ?

    Eos Amaterasu: every detail can be a lens for the tao

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Eos Amaterasu: the proof is in the eating of the pudding?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or the proof of the pudding is in the eating

    Pila Mulligan: 1615 when Miguel de Cervantes published Don Quixote, in this comic novel, the phrase is stated as, "The proof of the pudding is the eating."

    Pila Mulligan: via Google :)

    Pila Mulligan: everything is in Google

    Eos Amaterasu: the proof is in google

    Pila Mulligan: "Seeing the small is insight" Lao Tse

    Eos Amaterasu: "no poetry but in things" says the same thing


    Eos Amaterasu: Any shapes of slides to glide into the next 90 secs?

    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh


    Get ready for a koan...

    Calvino Rabeni: Sure - get ready for a Koan afterwards :)

    Calvino Rabeni: heh




    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Para

    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise

    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya cal ..eos pila :) good to see you all :)

    Calvino Rabeni: :) Para

    Pila Mulligan: et tu

    Eos Amaterasu listens for the koan...

    Pila Mulligan: Cal predicted a koan after the break

    Calvino Rabeni: mmmm

    Calvino Rabeni: here it comes


    Calvino Rabeni: What would You do - with the question "Does a Dog have a Buddha Nature?" ?

    Paradise Tennant: smiles a huge smile ..knows the answer to this one!

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu listens to Paradise

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Paradise Tennant: yes .. yes would be the answer :)

    Pila Mulligan: Chao-chou said, "Mu"

    Paradise Tennant: ("Zhaozhou" is rendered as "Chao-chou" in Wade-Giles, and pronounced "Joshu" in Japanese. "Wu" appears as "mu" in archaic Japanese, meaning "no", "not", "nonbeing", or "without" in English. This is a fragment of Case #1 of the Wúménguān. However, a similar kōan records that, on another occasion, Zhaozhou said "yes" in response: Case #18 of the Book of Serenity.

    Paradise Tennant: goes with the book of serenity :)

    Pila Mulligan: :)


    Paradise Tennant: can we do another ?

    Calvino Rabeni: If Bruce were here, I would ask him to ask Bear - "Hey boy, do you have a Buddha Nature" - and then to let me know his findings

    Calvino Rabeni: Have we plumbed the depths of what one would do with that question?

    Eos Amaterasu: mu

    Paradise Tennant: no answer from blue :)

    Pila Mulligan: what would you offer Cal?

    Calvino Rabeni: Well it is apparently a trick question

    Eos Amaterasu: does buddha nature have dogs?

    Calvino Rabeni: It doesn't ask "does a dog have a buddha nature"

    Calvino Rabeni: it asks "what would you do with the question" ...

    Eos Amaterasu scratches his ear

    Paradise Tennant: lol

    Pila Mulligan: Google, again: "Chao-chou's Enlightenment is known as funi daido, 'the non-duality of the great Tao'--- a near synonym for the buddha-nature empty of self...."

    Eos Amaterasu: I think you let the question sink down into the ground of your be-ing, where you're coming from

    Calvino Rabeni: Along with that consideration - which unfairly, I knew about since I put the question - I would first turn off the part of my mind, that is a data bank or question fetching device :)

    Calvino Rabeni: And I'd then see if I had anything in me that could see buddha nature in a dog

    Eos Amaterasu: it's a question deepening device

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Calvino Rabeni: After that, well - who knows :)

    Paradise Tennant: sees radiant buddha nature in dogs :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe buddha nature sees itself between human and dog

    Pila Mulligan: here's another koan I thought of today:

    Calvino Rabeni: I have a "hunch" feeling the answer is yes, but I'd go into it more

    Pila Mulligan: can a caterpillar learn to fly?

    Eos Amaterasu: mu

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Calvino Rabeni: mu is the opposite of "um" by the way - it indicates expression of already contained knowledge, rather than the catching and condensing of it

    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    Pila Mulligan: hum

    Calvino Rabeni: Pila got a running start there

    Eos Amaterasu: Upcoming 90 secs: who listens to silence?




    Calvino Rabeni: Well, nice to listen

    Eos Amaterasu: there's a kind of suspension of oneself

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Paradise Tennant: yes

    Eos Amaterasu: I discovered a koan once

    Calvino Rabeni: Rilke listens to silence too - this poem called Bell: 

    "Sound, no longer defined by our hearing. 

    As though the tone that encircles us were space itself expanding."

    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Bruce :)

    Paradise Tennant: hiya bruce :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Bruce

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni listens for Eos' koan

    Eos Amaterasu: Here is the koan:

    Eos Amaterasu: what is the original topic off which we are digressing?

    Calvino Rabeni: That's easy :)

    Calvino Rabeni: ... just kidding

    Paradise Tennant: lol

    Paradise Tennant: likes koan humor!

    Pila Mulligan: our beliefs?

    Calvino Rabeni: "Who Am I" is always serviceable

    Calvino Rabeni: Eos?

    Eos Amaterasu: Are you Eos?

    Paradise Tennant: Show me your original face before your mother and father were born?

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: "in another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked from your mother's face"

    Paradise Tennant: nods :)

    Eos Amaterasu is rolling away the dew

    Calvino Rabeni: heheh

    Eos Amaterasu: We've been talking all our lives: what is the original topic off which we're digressing?

    Calvino Rabeni: a lot of wisdom refs are spread through the Dead

    Pila Mulligan: from The Secret of the Golden Flower: “when the one note of individuation enters into the birth, human nature and life are divided in two. From this time on, if the utmost quietness is not achieved, human nature and life never see each other again.”

    Calvino Rabeni: Awwww

    Paradise Tennant: buddha nature :) is the origin .. the beginning the end :)

    Pila Mulligan: yep

    Eos Amaterasu: as the buddhists say, the path is to see the ground as the fruition

    Eos Amaterasu: drunks do it all the time :-)

    Bruce Mowbray does not have a clue what "Buddha Nature" might be.


    Thomas Merton...

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm reading New Seeds of Contemplation, by Merton

    Bruce Mowbray: Read that in 1977 -- probably one of the most pivotal books in my spiritual path.

    Calvino Rabeni: my question is, this koanish business, somewhat similar to contemplation

    Eos Amaterasu: How so, Bruce?

    Bruce Mowbray: Pivoted me - turned me around.

    Bruce Mowbray: Opened up Western contemplation for me -- Up until then it was all Eastern mysticism, for me.

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I relate to that too

    Bruce Mowbray: What are you thinking of the book, Cal?

    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Ewan.




    Ewan Bonham: Hi folks

    Pila Mulligan: hi Ewan

    Eos Amaterasu: Merton on contemplation:

    "life itself, fully awake, fully active, fully aware that it is alive. It is spiritual wonder."

    Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan :)

    Calvino Rabeni: I like the preface about the author wishing he didn't have to use the word "contemplation" because of its temptation to grasp as an instrument or commodity - and the idea that the book is not about adding another "how to" onto the to-do list

    Ewan Bonham: Intresting

    Calvino Rabeni: I also note, this is christian contemplation, while I think contemplation could be bigger than that

    Ewan Bonham: Contemplation is such a personal word

    Bruce Mowbray: You might also enjoy Merton's "Contemplative Prayer." -- but I liked "New Seeds" more.

    Bruce Mowbray: Yes it is, Ewan.

    Pila Mulligan: I've always considered contemplation as one of three elements of meditation (those being breathing, posture and contemplation) such that in the grand scheme it can take almost any form

    Eos Amaterasu is wondering about template and contemplate

    Pila Mulligan: the template may be our natural form

    Calvino Rabeni: A pragmatic or metaphysical assumption underlying this version of contemplation - "There is an irreducible opposition between the deep transcendent self that only awakens in contemplation... and the superficial, external self ..."


    Bruce Mowbray: I sometimes think of 'contemplation' as when I no longer hold the silence - but the Silence holds me.


    Calvino Rabeni: Eos, the word means to mark out a space, in which to take the true measure of something

    Ewan Bonham: Bruce ã‹¡

    Paradise Tennant: smiles at bruce held in silence :)

    Calvino Rabeni: That being the temple (the space) and the template ( measure)

    Eos Amaterasu: Bruce, so the "true measure" holds you

    Bruce Mowbray: I know nothing, except that I am held.

    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps that is connected with the buddhist "taking refuge"

    Bruce Mowbray: I feel like that, yes.

    Eos Amaterasu: implications are... limitless... Merton pretty much burst the bounds of his church and other frameworks toward the end of his life

    Pila Mulligan: and some say he died because of it, but he died happy

    Calvino Rabeni: Where did he go with it?

    Bruce Mowbray: I doubt that he would have returned to Gethsemene.

    Eos Amaterasu: I think he went to "life itself, fully awake, fully active, fully aware that it is alive."

    Pila Mulligan: Wiki: On December 10, 1968, Merton had gone to attend an interfaith conference between Catholic and non-Christian monks. While stepping out of his bath, He reached out to adjust an electric fan and apparently touched an exposed wire, and he was instantly electrocuted. He died 27 years to the day after his entrance into the Abbey of Gethsemani in 1941.

    Bruce Mowbray: I highly recommend his "Eastern Journals" -- the last published work, a memoir of his final trip.

    Bruce Mowbray: He's clearly "gone east" -- and I don't think he could have returned.

    Eos Amaterasu: I think he went back to the roots

    Eos Amaterasu: not especially east

    Bruce Mowbray: yup.

    Eos Amaterasu: (except insofar as the east is where the light comes from)

    Bruce Mowbray: But he was so far from his Catholic establishment (at the monastery) that I don't think he would have been able to return there.

    Eos Amaterasu: Quite possibly

    Bruce Mowbray: He might have moved in with Joan Baez, perhaps. . .

    Pila Mulligan: a freind in Louisville in his youth was being castigated on the street one day by a priest for having long hair when this monk intervened on behalf of the kid -- the monk was Merton

    Eos Amaterasu: His social behavior was also starting to stretch the boundaries, so to speak

    Bruce Mowbray: since she tells about his massaging her toes.

    Bruce Mowbray: Yup.

    Eos Amaterasu: He and Chogyam Trungpa had become very close

    Bruce Mowbray: Also friendly with the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther King, and so many others ahead of their time.

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Eos Amaterasu: also close friend of Ginsberg et al

    Paradise Tennant: chogyam trungpa .. :) also .. stretched boundaries :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Yikes - here's another for the "Not Knowing" shelf

    Calvino Rabeni: You Don't Have to Be Buddhist to Know Nothing

    Paradise Tennant: really they all were .. creating new frontiers of understanding

    Paradise Tennant: What Makes You Not a Buddhist :) Dongsar Rinpoche :) also excellent




    Eos Amaterasu: Contemplation brings you to the origin, the unvarnished-by-you: as Bob D says, "to live outside the law you must be honest"

    Bruce Mowbray: "no direction home. . . acomplete unknown."

    Calvino Rabeni: A self-defined individual

    Bruce Mowbray: a complete. . unknown.

    Eos Amaterasu: universe-defined individual

    Calvino Rabeni: Can a dog contemplate?

    Eos Amaterasu: or as a Christian would say, "not I, but Christ lives in me"

    Bruce Mowbray: If you need to ask, you probably will not accept my answer to your question.

    Eos Amaterasu: Can a human contemplate?

    Calvino Rabeni: Or is it only available to beings with a certain capability?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, same question

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps you should ask the dog.

    Pila Mulligan: I bet Jesus also likes jazz

    Paradise Tennant: lol

    Paradise Tennant: and hip hop

    Bruce Mowbray: one hip dude, for sure.

    Calvino Rabeni: You weren't here earlier Bruce, I was going to ask you to ask Bear and then let us know

    Eos Amaterasu: Does Jesus have buddha-nature?

    Calvino Rabeni: That is to ask Bear if he has a buddha nature

    Eos Amaterasu: Bear?

    Bruce Mowbray: Bear has taught me much in his ten years.

    Bruce Mowbray: (my dog).

    Bruce Mowbray: Neither Bear nor I have a clue about Buddha Nature.

    Pila Mulligan: you may have it then

    Calvino Rabeni: hehe

    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps. . . perhaps not. . .

    Bruce Mowbray: "have it". . . . no thanks.

    Paradise Tennant: The buddha nature is simply the birthright of every sentient being, and I always say, “Our buddha nature is as good as any buddha’s buddha nature.” This is the good news that the Buddha brought us from his enlightenment in Bodhgaya, and which many people find so inspiring. His message—that enlightenment is within the reach of all—holds out tremendous hope

    Paradise Tennant: sogyal rinpoche explaining buddha nature

    Paradise Tennant: sort of the .. birthright of being sentient ... thinking .. so shared by all creatures who think

    Bruce Mowbray: The Buddha Nature that can be explained is not the true Buddha Nature.

    Paradise Tennant: well

    Paradise Tennant: not sure I agree

    Eos Amaterasu: Care, or compassion, is considered the other essential aspect of buddha nature (besides the noetic)

    Pila Mulligan: while walking in the woods a few days ago a large white owl flew close by at head level and peered over with intelligent eyes in a gaze full of humor

    Bruce Mowbray: . . . and I doubt that it has anything to do with one's capacity to think. . . (but I've had a very challenging day - and besides, what do I know anyway?)

    Eos Amaterasu: knowingness plus care seems to characterize sentient beings

    Paradise Tennant: buddha nature as an experience .. of being free of distraction .. is not easily articulated but the basic idea . of it .. is straight forward

    Eos Amaterasu: unfortunately software development has focussed only on knowingness

    Eos Amaterasu: and software runs the world!

    Bruce Mowbray: I agree that "it" can be experienced -- just not explained.

    Pila Mulligan: but that doesn't stop people from trying (to explai:)

    Ewan Bonham: i wonder if they can make a software that can lead to enlightenment

    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡

    Calvino Rabeni: @eos, we're waiting for a relational algebra of not knowing

    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

    Eos Amaterasu: I want to develop intentional software, for symbiotic care

    Calvino Rabeni: I'd like to hear more about that, surely

    Ewan Bonham: Eos, what do you mean?

    Bruce Mowbray changes his shirt to one that better represents what he "knows."

    Eos Amaterasu: Our software has been designed to mimic our reasoning and knowing aspects

    Eos Amaterasu: but care, and intention, has been ignored.




    Eos Amaterasu: When's the last time you saw a piece of software that included, or required, the three (or more) laws of robotics?

    Bruce Mowbray: cyber empathy?

    Calvino Rabeni: Not only that - WHO has been ignored.

    Eos Amaterasu: If our software doesn't participate in our contemplation then that contemplation won't find expression in the world

    Calvino Rabeni: yes!

    Eos Amaterasu: social software is interesting in that regard, because it is more driven by human intentions

    Calvino Rabeni: The "ineffabilists" might not take keenly to this line of work

    Calvino Rabeni: However, it's worth a try

    Calvino Rabeni: Have you thought of how to get around that slight problem?

    Eos Amaterasu: ineffabalists tend not to write code

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but .... they have a point, and do the code-writers understand it sufficiently?

    Eos Amaterasu: No, the code-writers are too busy doing CGI

    Calvino Rabeni: Well, there's the rub, I guess

    Eos Amaterasu: (I did not think Inception was contemplative)

    Ewan Bonham: Perhaps we are onto something

    Ewan Bonham: Is it possible if software can instruct us in contemplation and compassion

    Calvino Rabeni: There are some who bridge those cultures

    Calvino Rabeni: maybe for instance Nova Spivak

    Eos Amaterasu: software is good source of metaphor

    Ewan Bonham: that may allow us to contemplate in our own way

    Bruce Mowbray: bio-feedback, brainwave monitoring?

    Calvino Rabeni: (not sure If I spelled correctly) - formerly of Radar Networks

    Eos Amaterasu: Yeah, Nova gets it

    Ewan Bonham: Bio feedback is a step in that direction

    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya steve :)

    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, steve.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi all

    Eos Amaterasu: What would it mean for software to "contemplate"?

    stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy

    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Paradise Tennant: rather than calculate :)

    Eos Amaterasu: exactly! (so to speak)

    Calvino Rabeni: It might serve as an AID, somewhat like mandalas do

    Calvino Rabeni: And as a reminder for the possible dimensions of a topic, including the experiential

    Calvino Rabeni: I gues I don't think it can DO contemplation, any more than a logic engine "thinks"

    Calvino Rabeni: But I think it can SUPPORT humans activities better in that direction

    Eos Amaterasu: does a human being "think"?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes :)

    Eos Amaterasu: software can kind of somewhat to a very limited extent "think"

    Eos Amaterasu: but it's a zillion miles from "caring"

    Pila Mulligan: hi Lucinda

    Ewan Bonham: Can software make a connection of mind and heart?

    Calvino Rabeni: I think you're asking, eos, if we can go from the Global Brain to the Global Heart

    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Luci.

    Eos Amaterasu: I don't know if software can really connect to either mind or heart

    stevenaia Michinaga: nice Komona Lucinda

    Ewan Bonham: Perhaps it is just an offering

    Eos Amaterasu: we need global heart as much as global brain maybe more so

    Lucinda Lavender: HI Cal, Pila, Bruce Para, Steve, EwanEos...

    Ewan Bonham: Like a book offers wisdom

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi luci

    Ewan Bonham: but you have to read it to get it

    Paradise Tennant: smiles Hiya lucinda ..gtsy :)

    Ewan Bonham: And you have to apply what it says in your own way

    Ewan Bonham: hi lucinda

    Bruce Mowbray: "internalize" it.

    Ewan Bonham: yes




    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. well I think I will shut down my soft ware for the night :) thank you all . as always for the wonderful conversation :) namaste

    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

    Calvino Rabeni: Paradise :)

    Pila Mulligan heads off to a late afternoon RL walk -- nice to see each of you -- bye for now

    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pila

    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!

    stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon

    Bruce Mowbray: G'day-night, Pila and Para.

    Paradise Tennant: waves nite all :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni goes back to software systems - bye all :)

    tylor Wroth: does any1 need personal bodyguard a security

    Eos Amaterasu: bye cal

    Bruce Mowbray: G'night, Cal

    Eos Amaterasu: I should also leave - late here

    Bruce Mowbray: welcome, tylor.

    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Para and Pila:)

    stevenaia Michinaga: night all

    tylor Wroth: thx u need security are bodyguard

    Eos Amaterasu: tylor, have you been here , to play as being, before?

    Bruce Mowbray: G'night !

    Bruce Mowbray: Come pitch yer tent in the front row, tylor.

    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Steve

    tylor Wroth: are u guys hiring security

    Eos Amaterasu: No...

    tylor Wroth: i am looking for 1 or bodyguard

    tylor Wroth: for free

    Eos Amaterasu: Sorry to abandon you - thanks everyone!

    Bruce Mowbray: G'night, Eos.

    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Eos:)

    Ewan Bonham: Well, folks. C'ya later.

    Ewan Bonham: ty

    Bruce Mowbray: Me too - to bed.

    Bruce Mowbray: G'night everyone.

    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Ewan:)

    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Bruce:)

    Bruce Mowbray: Good luck with the security issue, tylor.

    Lucinda Lavender: :))

    Bruce Mowbray: poof!

    Lucinda Lavender: Well things dissappear I guess...

    Bruce Mowbray: yup.

    Bruce Mowbray: Are you ion the Time Sessions group, Luci?

    Bruce Mowbray: in.

    Lucinda Lavender: yes...

    Lucinda Lavender: But I am not writing reports

    Bruce Mowbray: I had a lot of trouble posting my report tonight. I hope someone will straighten it out.

    Lucinda Lavender: I have been too busy and I do not feel ready

    Bruce Mowbray: I understand.

    Lucinda Lavender: good to know

    Lucinda Lavender: what was the reporting problem?

    Bruce Mowbray: I could not figure out hoe to get my report into the right folder. . . but someone will find it and put it there, I hope.

    Bruce Mowbray: how.

    Lucinda Lavender: sure...they probably will

    Lucinda Lavender: Do you have a mac?

    Bruce Mowbray: Nope -- just a regular PC that I built myself.

    Lucinda Lavender: ah

    Lucinda Lavender: you know it inside out then

    Bruce Mowbray: several years ago, actually -- but I keep upgrading stuff in it.

    Bruce Mowbray: yeah. . . so far so good.

    Lucinda Lavender: you like trees don't you

    Bruce Mowbray: According to the SL info, I'm not even supposed to be able to get into this world... but it's working.

    Lucinda Lavender: cool

    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I love trees.

    Lucinda Lavender: what trees are in your yard?

    Bruce Mowbray: Oh my -- SOOOO Many!

    Bruce Mowbray: I live in a forest!

    Lucinda Lavender: !!

    Bruce Mowbray: really!

    Lucinda Lavender: In Ohio?

    Bruce Mowbray: Yep.

    Bruce Mowbray: close to the terminal moraine - where the glaciers stopped.

    Lucinda Lavender: north south east or west?

    Bruce Mowbray: south central.

    Bruce Mowbray: about 45 miles south of Cols.

    Bruce Mowbray: VERY rural -- nearest town is 15 miles away.

    Lucinda Lavender: I do not know that part but have been to the north

    Lucinda Lavender: around lake erie

    Bruce Mowbray: Cleveland, Toledo, Akron...?

    Bruce Mowbray: Oh Lake Erie.

    Lucinda Lavender: just travelled thru

    Lucinda Lavender: Indiana to Pa

    Bruce Mowbray: OK.

    Lucinda Lavender: used to live up on the lake in pa

    Bruce Mowbray: Yep - - - one needs to traverse the Buckeye state twixt those two. . .

    Bruce Mowbray: Well, then. . . Titusville, Meadville, Erie?

    Lucinda Lavender: mostly deciduous then?

    Lucinda Lavender: North East

    Bruce Mowbray: OH. Wwell, yes, mostly oaks, maples, some spruce, though.




    Lucinda Lavender: It is in the North west corner

    Bruce Mowbray: Lots of trees I cannot name.

    Lucinda Lavender: hmmm

    Lucinda Lavender: nice

    Lucinda Lavender: curious what owls soundlike...

    Bruce Mowbray: I have a couple of them in my yard -- hear them nightly.

    Lucinda Lavender: oh

    Lucinda Lavender: size?

    Bruce Mowbray: yep. sometimes I can't tell the difference between the counds in SL and the sounds coming in through the window.

    Lucinda Lavender: me too

    Bruce Mowbray: size of trees or owls?

    Lucinda Lavender: owls

    Bruce Mowbray: I have not seen them - only heard them.

    Bruce Mowbray: Trees very dense.

    Lucinda Lavender: wild life?

    Bruce Mowbray: Oh my yes!

    Lucinda Lavender: big cats?

    Bruce Mowbray: you name it. . . deer, scunks, racoons, possum, rabbit, squirrel, chipmunk... beaver, woodchuck... LOTS of wildlife.

    Bruce Mowbray: no big cats that I've heard of. Coyote, though -- LOTS of coyotes.

    Bruce Mowbray: They set up a big howling every night.

    Lucinda Lavender: aah yes!

    Lucinda Lavender: exciting to hear

    Bruce Mowbray: Love that!

    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Luci, it's time for my carriage to turn into a pumpkin.

    Bruce Mowbray: So I shall bid you happy dreams.

    Lucinda Lavender: Good idea!

    Lucinda Lavender: thank you and the same to you...

    Bruce Mowbray: See you again soon.

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