2012.01.14 07:00 - Dedicated to the Real World

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, filling in for an open session The few comments necessary are by Eliza Madrigal...

Eliza Madrigal: Good morning Arch :)
Archmage Atlantis: Guten Morgen.....fairi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :) How goes the day so far?
Archmage Atlantis: I am on the hunt for truth
Archmage Atlantis: and I have a toothache
Eliza Madrigal: aw
Archmage Atlantis: which those closest to me deny as real
Archmage Atlantis: So, mixed as always

Eliza Madrigal: Would you share with me your sense of what truth is?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes.....what a wonderful question
Eliza Madrigal: ty
Archmage Atlantis: We are each bounded by what we have tools to sense
Archmage Atlantis: So, in the toothache example,
Archmage Atlantis: One who has not ever had the ability to sense one
Archmage Atlantis: Cannot see it as "real"

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: yes I see, they can know 'about' toothaches as an idea only
Archmage Atlantis: yes
Eliza Madrigal: something outside of themselves
Archmage Atlantis: And perhaps because of that, they deny that toothaches exist
Archmage Atlantis: The are good ppl
Archmage Atlantis: but vision can be limited

Eliza Madrigal: Do you think that one must have had a toothache to be able to experience another's sense?
Archmage Atlantis: I do not now....this is where an examination of truth is
Archmage Atlantis: I think we can be receptive of anothers pain
Archmage Atlantis: without living it
Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting
Eliza Madrigal: in that sense we might be a kind of door in another's experience
Archmage Atlantis: agree
Eliza Madrigal: when I am in pain, the presence of someone who merely sensitively relates is the biggest gift...
Eliza Madrigal: someone who might be quiet for instance, but present

Archmage Atlantis: there are many forms of pain
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Older brother
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, son of the same mother.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :))
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Eliza.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for sending out the revised schedule of guardians and PaB sessions, Eliza.
Archmage Atlantis: vI like the singing of Odetta
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, most welcome Bruce... it is good to see the whole map sometimes :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for filling in on Tuesday also
Archmage Atlantis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG48fLC5Eao
Bruce Mowbray: I saw Odetta in person when I was still in high school.
Bruce Mowbray: 1959.
Eliza Madrigal: you didn't need to, of course everyone will step in at various times
Eliza Madrigal: :) but thanks

Eliza Madrigal: What is moving about Odetta for you both?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I will continue to fill in on Tuesdays when I am home and able to do so.
Archmage Atlantis: The times, they are a changin
Bruce Mowbray: Powerful deep voice. . .
Bruce Mowbray: amazing stage presence
Bruce Mowbray: authentic folk.
Eliza Madrigal: authentic, hm
Bruce Mowbray: True like a laser.
Eliza Madrigal: conveying emotion?
Eliza Madrigal: shared?
Bruce Mowbray: powerful feeling, yes.

Bruce Mowbray: shared as if it were only her and yourself on the planet.
Bruce Mowbray: a direct shared connection.

Archmage Atlantis: conveying truth, as you asked for, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: intimate
Bruce Mowbray: One of the highest landmark memories of my youth.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: She was still in her 20's when I saw her.
Archmage Atlantis: There is a house in n'oleans, theyh call the rising sun
Bruce Mowbray: I saw her again when I was an undergraduate at SMU in the early 60's.
Archmage Atlantis: my mother, my dad....they grew up in the old south
Eliza Madrigal: How is it that some from such early ages are able to be vulnerable so fully, express that?
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Arch.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza -- it is truly an amazing thing.
Bruce Mowbray: (both Dylan and Odetta are good example of youth's insight).

Bruce Mowbray: Did you wish to say more, Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Archmage Atlantis: We stand up
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Archmage Atlantis: we are
Archmage Atlantis: My parents allowed me to be a gay person
Archmage Atlantis: In a society that condemmed me
Archmage Atlantis: So I think I should
Archmage Atlantis: stand up for parents
Archmage Atlantis: QED
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: It is nice that you acknowledge how hard it may have been for them
Bruce Mowbray: They honored who you are. . . and encouraged you to do the same.
Bruce Mowbray: You were very fortunate in that, Arch.
Archmage Atlantis: I do realize that.....my problem is finding a way to honor that
Eliza Madrigal: haven't you just?
Bruce Mowbray: indeed, you have just honored them, Arch.
Archmage Atlantis: ty....but there is more todo
Eliza Madrigal: it sounds as though they wanted you to know and be authentic you
Eliza Madrigal: we all work within limitations
Archmage Atlantis: Yes we do

Bruce Mowbray: I honor my parents for breaking through the barriers that were set for them as children - -
Bruce Mowbray: and I honor my siblings for breaking through the barriers set for us as children by our parents.
Archmage Atlantis: still this place Pema and Storm helped to create, it is a next step
Bruce Mowbray: This is a wonderful place, to be sure. . .
Eliza Madrigal: this place lets us see our own time, what limitations are set by ourselves and others that we might question
Bruce Mowbray listens.

Bruce Mowbray: PaB is the only place in my entire life (with the possible exception of the Quaker group) where open-ended explorations can happen without prejudice and/or judgment.
Eliza Madrigal: that in itself ...
Bruce Mowbray: To put that more simply:
Bruce Mowbray: equanimity prevails.
Archmage Atlantis: Bruce...you judged me
Archmage Atlantis: We all do it
Bruce Mowbray: If I did so, I hope that it was kindly, Arch.
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: there are indeed moments when we are uncomfortable mirrors for one another
Bruce Mowbray feels it has always been difficult for him to explain "personal boundaries" without others thinking this means they have been judged. My "boundaries" say nothing about anyone else -- only about myself.
Eliza Madrigal: not easy to do at all sometimes
Archmage Atlantis: As a ppl, we are joined
Archmage Atlantis: I act
Archmage Atlantis: others are affected
Archmage Atlantis: just is

Bruce Mowbray: yes, Eliza. Especially difficult to know one's boundaries and to let others know them when we have been raised by people without boundaries -- or by folks who didn't let us know we had rights to personal boundaries.
Bruce Mowbray: One's "power" to "Just say no" needs to be learned.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that's why we have to be gentle with one another in learning to express ourselves vulnerably... be kind when we stumble a bit...
Archmage Atlantis: omg, you were not allowed to be yourself
Eliza Madrigal: it is a new skill for most of us, relatively
Eliza Madrigal: and certainly collectively
Bruce Mowbray: and yes, Arch, whatever we do, say, or think, or evenb feel has effects -- perhaps on the whole cosmos.

Archmage Atlantis: my parents allowed me to be me
Archmage Atlantis: society did not
Bruce Mowbray: Mine specifically told me it was NOT OK to be me.
Archmage Atlantis: Ouch
Bruce Mowbray: So most of my energies were spent trying to figure out what they and others expected of me -- and producing that.
Eliza Madrigal: many parents who said it was not, thought they were being protective, seeing the world outside as being so harsh

Bruce Mowbray: It became a reflex.

Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bruce Mowbray: had to be unlearned through many decades.
Eliza Madrigal: still shows up at times?
Bruce Mowbray: but at first it was something required for survival -- in my family of origin.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, still shows up a lot.
Eliza Madrigal: yes I relate
Bruce Mowbray: but I can usually detect it now.
Bruce Mowbray: and alter my course.
Bruce Mowbray: honoring myself, finally.
Eliza Madrigal: step out of the loop more and more
Bruce Mowbray: yep.
Eliza Madrigal: let life unfold
Eliza Madrigal: *thank you*

Eliza Madrigal: that's the best we can do for anyone else, too
Bruce Mowbray: To thine own self be true.
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to recommend Tree of Life, btw
Archmage Atlantis: If my care minder comes today, I would like her to dance with m3
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful, Arch!
Bruce Mowbray: Can you say more about 'Tree of Life,' Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: The film is about a boy growing up with parents who each had hugely different views on life...
Eliza Madrigal: both 'good people'
Eliza Madrigal: but one very open and the other very fearful in some ways
Bruce Mowbray looks up Tree of Life on IMDB.com
Eliza Madrigal: and the way it is filmed takes one on a journey
Eliza Madrigal: that is about oneself, but also about everything
Eliza Madrigal: I got to see YES, btw Bruce, and thank you for that
Bruce Mowbray: Glad to hear you liked it, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: very much so
Bruce Mowbray: I am finding three different movies titled "Tree of Life"
Bruce Mowbray: Is yours the French one?
Archmage Atlantis: let it shine :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, no.... let me find a link...
Archmage Atlantis: afro american spiriitual
Bruce Mowbray: Here's the one I'm looking at:
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478304/
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478304/
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers! It;s the same one.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Will order that from Netflix this morning.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: think you'll appreciate it very much
Bruce Mowbray: Just added it and moved it to the top of my queue
Eliza Madrigal: each moment is the whole shebang :) Like when film makers attempt the feat of showing that

Archmage Atlantis: my moma was a teach, my daddy was a cop
Eliza Madrigal: safe boundary makers, Arch :)
Archmage Atlantis: Both dedicated to a real world
Archmage Atlantis: was born late
Bruce Mowbray: "To see the world in a grain of sand and eternity in an hour."
Archmage Atlantis: dad was in the d day invasion, a sargeant
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, "dedicated to the real world"
Bruce Mowbray: Sounds like your parents had already matured when you came along, Arch - - That helps a lot.
Archmage Atlantis: saw his men die around him

Eliza Madrigal: thank you Arch
Eliza Madrigal: And thank you Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you both.
Archmage Atlantis: I need to stand in their truth
Eliza Madrigal: I must go now... but I deeply appreciate this session
Bruce Mowbray: I do too, Eliza.
Bruce Mowbray: See both of you later, then.
Eliza Madrigal: _/ \_
Archmage Atlantis: Blesssings and namaste
Eliza Madrigal: Blessings and Namaste'