2012.01.23 13:00 - Am I really all these stories?

Wol Euler was guardian for this orphaned session. It was a truly lovely conversation, I am so pleased to have been there.

Alfred Kelberry: woly! :)
Wol Euler: boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi, sexy girl :)
Alfred Kelberry: been good? tired?
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: tired, got in from work half an hour or so ago
Wol Euler: just had a sandwich, made tea
Alfred Kelberry: ah, late
Alfred Kelberry: i'm having a pie with tea
Wol Euler: nice
Wol Euler: what kind of pie?
Wol Euler: sweet? savoury?
Alfred Kelberry: read an article on the german economy today - quite nice
Alfred Kelberry: caramel :)
Wol Euler: ah :)
Alfred Kelberry: http://lat.ms/xU7TAF
Alfred Kelberry: latimes
Wol Euler: interesting
Alfred Kelberry: in essence, a good shape of the german economy is due to german practicism :)
Wol Euler: true
Wol Euler: virtue is its own reward :)
Alfred Kelberry: lack of consumerism
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Alfred Kelberry: practicism is something i've always liked in germans
Wol Euler: they are a very practical people
Alfred Kelberry: that make good use of high taxes :)
Wol Euler: "high" is relative.
Wol Euler: the germans are happy to pay, on the whole, because they perceive that they are getting good value for money
Wol Euler: hello bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol and Boxy.

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: sadly, in a sense, the rest of the eu (specifically the southern neighbors) been eating on german's dime all these years
Alfred Kelberry: bruce :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Alfred Kelberry: me likes the bell. gives me time to chew my pie thoughtfully.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray admires thoughtful chewing.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: you have something to chew on, bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: much, alas.
Alfred Kelberry: "let's chew this over dinner" :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Still "floating" with good feelings from Cal's Original Face session today.
Wol Euler: ah :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, can you tell more?
Bruce Mowbray: Really can't say much more -- due to confidentiality issues...
Wol Euler: fair enough
Bruce Mowbray: except to say that it is a good experience for my soul - each week for two hours.
Bruce Mowbray: and that seems to be a shared feeling.
Bruce Mowbray: and has been for many months now.
Alfred Kelberry: in the days of facebook and g+ there is no such thing as confidentiality :)
Bruce Mowbray: But I have other "things to chew on," also.
Alfred Kelberry: i'm glad for you, bruce :) sounds lovely
Bruce Mowbray: I am very hesitant to enter into the dialogue regarding retreats.
Bruce Mowbray: (or whatever we're now calling those).
Wol Euler: why
Wol Euler: ?
Alfred Kelberry: ?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bruce Mowbray: well, mainly because I don't want to be mis-understood.
Alfred Kelberry: you will be if you don't speak up :)
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh.
Wol Euler: I've found speaking carefully and at sufficient length to be a solution to that :)
Alfred Kelberry: in fact, i look forward for your input
Bruce Mowbray: I will give it a try, Wol.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: and Boxy.
Wol Euler listens.
Bruce Mowbray: I do not feel that it is possible for folks who know each other - have shared several previous RL retreats together -- to come together without some sort of "structure."
Bruce Mowbray: even if that structure is unconscious.
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that it is a bit presumptuous to think that a retreat can be "unstructured."
Alfred Kelberry: good point
Bruce Mowbray wait for the shock to wear off.
Wol Euler listens.
Bruce Mowbray: thanks for listening, Wol.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: I was the only person in Halifax who had not met the others -- several times, in fact.
Alfred Kelberry: please do add that to the thread, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray: You might soon see why I have been hesitant until now to join in.
Wol Euler: I remember that you were .. anxious is putting it too strongly. You had a certain hesitation and unease about joining the group
Wol Euler: because of that history
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I did.
Bruce Mowbray: and do, still.
Wol Euler: but you also did join :)
Bruce Mowbray: I tried to join in, yes.
Wol Euler: and were welcomed -- no you did!
Bruce Mowbray: I was most warmly welcomed, indeed.
Wol Euler: I don't wish to deny your lived experience, but my view of it was different
Alfred Kelberry: one would think that after 50 there's no hesitancy left :)
Bruce Mowbray: and I did join in -- (Useless to stop me - although no one wanted to do that....)
Alfred Kelberry: i'll have to wait and see
Wol Euler: nonsense, boxy, wait till you get there :-P
Bruce Mowbray: 50 years?
Bruce Mowbray: How about 70 years?
Alfred Kelberry: woly, my rationale being that experience and years make you value time more and you tend to act rather than hesitate
Wol Euler points to her previous statement :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, ok :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: So, concerning the "structure" stuff.
Wol Euler: right
Alfred Kelberry: i think i agree with you, bruce
Wol Euler: I think you are right, but I don't yet see what difference it makes
Wol Euler: because every meeting is structured
Wol Euler: when I meet friends for a drink in the evening, I know that different things will happen compared to when I meet them for a lunchtime meal
Alfred Kelberry: i haven't been to a retreat, but from what i heard, it does seem to carry a structure which is very supportive for the group

--BELL--

Wol Euler: I don't see that as a problem, I think it is just a fact of being human
Alfred Kelberry: yes, woly
Wol Euler: clearly it has more /different meaning for you, Bruce. could you say something about that?
Bruce Mowbray does not recall saying that it was a problem.
Alfred Kelberry: maybe it's worth to define what do we mean by "structure"
Wol Euler: I inferred from your statement that you felt it was an issue
Wol Euler: [13:23] Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I feel that it is a bit presumptuous to think that a retreat can be "unstructured."
Bruce Mowbray: What is an issue is my feeling that I might be misunderstood....
Wol Euler: ... about pointing to the inevitability of structure?
Alfred Kelberry: i think it's a fundumental issue with all humans :)
Wol Euler struggles to comprehend.
Bruce Mowbray: When we had the theme session on the Halifax retreat, you called on me to speak first....
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: pusher :P
Bruce Mowbray: recalling that I had been the first to arrive at the retreat and also the first to leave it.
Wol Euler: and also that we were IMing about the retreat at that moment :) as I recall
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Bruce Mowbray: good memory!!
Wol Euler: I hope that wasn't unwelcome, but somebody had to start and you seemed to be in mid-flow :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray ponders "mid-flow."
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Wol Euler: our conversation
Wol Euler: in IM
Alfred Kelberry: serendipity
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Bruce Mowbray: I then stated that whatever my statements were about the retreat, they were not to be taken as "history" -- just my own reflections.
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: remember?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Wol Euler: I remember being a little surprised by that
Bruce Mowbray: Then the "flow" passed to Pema,
Bruce Mowbray: who began his account by saying that the retreat had been "totally unstructured."
Wol Euler listens.
Alfred Kelberry: sounds like pema, yes :)
Bruce Mowbray: I truly believe that that was his "experience."
Bruce Mowbray: I respect his account as his experience.
Wol Euler: I presumed that he was comparing it to other retreats he'd been on, the kind where a bell rings at 5:30 am and every minute of the day is programmed for you in advance
Alfred Kelberry: eek
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I thought that he might be generalizing about all the previous PaB RL retreats that he'd been on.
Wol Euler: oh no, the others were very much like the one you attended :)
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Wol Euler: there is a system, we sit and then talk, and then repeat using whatever subject came up in the talking
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, what parts of the "structure" did you like at halifax?
Bruce Mowbray: I liked ALL of it, Boxy.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: I was deeply honored to be included.
Alfred Kelberry: can you specify a few please?
Wol Euler: we were all delighted to have you there, you were a joy and an enrichment
Alfred Kelberry: i'm trying to sense your meaning of the structure here
Wol Euler: and I have no hesitation in using "we" in this context! :-P
Bruce Mowbray: In fact, I can't recall even in my life being among such accomplished people for such a long period of time.
Bruce Mowbray: ever*
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Wol Euler: hmmmmmmmmm
Alfred Kelberry: it's been a pleasure to be around woly and others for me too :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: especially Woly, yes.
Wol Euler: I experienced it as improvised, we followed a system but the actual events arose naturally from what was said first
Wol Euler: awwwwww <3
Wol Euler blushes.
Bruce Mowbray: I will embarrass you again, Wol.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Wol Euler giggles.
Bruce Mowbray: One of the most precious moments of the retreat came the last day. . .
Bruce Mowbray: when you came up to me from behind (while I was sitting at the dinner table)
Bruce Mowbray: and put your hands on my chest...
Wol Euler: I remember that.
Bruce Mowbray: and asked something about my being sad.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bruce Mowbray: I will never forget that.
Alfred Kelberry: aww, thoughtful woly
Wol Euler smiles warmly.
Alfred Kelberry: *recalls a similar moment with woly and yaku*
Bruce Mowbray: and then you said that it would truly be sad if I were not sad -- about the retreat's being over.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: but I was not sad about that.
Wol Euler listens.
Bruce Mowbray: I still have not sorted it all out.
Alfred Kelberry: *pats bruce's back*
Bruce Mowbray: All I "know" is that it had something to do with the mix of personality styles. . . and the history of those together in the group...
Bruce Mowbray: and perhaps my expectations.
Bruce Mowbray: and all of that is my responsibility for "dealing" with.

--BELL--

Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: history and expectations. it's as if you talk about the past and the future, bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Boxy. A mix.
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: where did the present go? :)
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that the retreat was also such a mix.
Wol Euler: that is true, we talked a lot about our pasts, there was much emotion in the air
Bruce Mowbray: indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: That was good, I felt.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bruce Mowbray: AHHH!
Bruce Mowbray: I just had an Ah HA!
Bruce Mowbray: experience.
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: do tell
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bruce Mowbray: The emotion inthe air!
Bruce Mowbray: That explains everything. . . (perhaps)!
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
Bruce Mowbray ponders.... and remembers.
Alfred Kelberry: it sure is a good image if you ask me :)
Wol Euler: what are you thinking of now?
Bruce Mowbray: I am thinking of special moments.
Bruce Mowbray: A dog discovering the forest.
Bruce Mowbray: A child discovering the mist for the first time.
Wol Euler smiles and nods.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bruce Mowbray: A person crying... and the three children in the bathtub..
Bruce Mowbray: and vulnerability to love.
Bruce Mowbray: Wow.
Bruce Mowbray: remember, Wol?
Wol Euler takes your hand for a moment.
Wol Euler: I do.
Bruce Mowbray: thank you.
Wol Euler: to me those moments are every bit as important as whatever formal exercises we did
Wol Euler: if not more so
Bruce Mowbray: Powerful stuff happening in me right now.
Bruce Mowbray: those are my precious memories.
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: when I think of the Halifax retreat, those talks on the verandah are what come to mind first
Bruce Mowbray: I remember say a quote from Rumi...
Bruce Mowbray: about how I felt miuch of the imte:
Bruce Mowbray: "Sit down and be quiet. You are drunk and nearing the edge of the cliff."
Bruce Mowbray: It is nearly impossible for me to be quiet.
Wol Euler chuckles.
Bruce Mowbray: so over the cliff I went.
Bruce Mowbray: in spite of myself.
Wol Euler: what did you find there?
Wol Euler: or what happened?
Bruce Mowbray: My soul.
Bruce Mowbray: Wounds are precious windows, of course.
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: I am feeling a sort of transformation.
Bruce Mowbray: A coming together of sense and nonsense..
Bruce Mowbray: a paradox...
Bruce Mowbray: a synchronicity.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: Need to sit quietly with this.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: Too many narratives going on inside me for seven months.
Bruce Mowbray: Am I really all these stories?
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm.
Wol Euler: of course, and many more :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: of course!
Wol Euler: :)
Bruce Mowbray: no resistance.
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: soul food.
Bruce Mowbray: THANK you both.
Wol Euler: thank you, bruce, I'm very glad you told us this
Bruce Mowbray: This has been better for me than you could know -- (or could you?)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Wol Euler: take care
Wol Euler: sit gently with yourself, and with these parts of you
Bruce Mowbray: You too, Wol. You too, Boxy.
Alfred Kelberry: *clicks bruce's nose*
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Wol Euler: wow
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that's sweet
Wol Euler: I'm so pleased.
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: you came here for a reason :)
Wol Euler: and to think that I nearly pressured him to continue with the definition of "structure"
Wol Euler: lucky us
Wol Euler: that I managed to shut my mouth
Alfred Kelberry: yes :)
Alfred Kelberry: have you played with the webaudio spec?
Wol Euler: nope
Wol Euler: well, not sure what you mean

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-fil...ification.html
Wol Euler: ah, a HTML5 tool
Wol Euler: no, I've done nothing at all with HTML5
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Alfred Kelberry: it's really neat
Wol Euler: so I heard
Wol Euler: btw Zen just pinged me to say there's a disco at Perfect Paradise. Want to go dance?
Alfred Kelberry: i have a fun app idea for webaudio
Alfred Kelberry: sure
Wol Euler: off we go! I'll ask him for TPs
Alfred Kelberry: ok :)