The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

wonders if the friday session is determined to contain onigokko ?...

It was a bit sad that Sunfire came so late, it was a bit too much as well i guess only zen as our philosophical joker was able to discuss but i really liked sunfire contributing with a subject.

Wol Euler: hello aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Guten abend mein schatz :)
Wol Euler lächelt.
Wol Euler: wie geht's?
Agatha Macbeth: Gut danke :)
Agatha Macbeth: How's things?
Wol Euler: pretty good, I guess
Wol Euler: sort of blue
Agatha Macbeth: Blue is the colour :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Agatha Macbeth: Boss not been yelling today then?
Wol Euler: was hardly there.
Agatha Macbeth: Lucky you eh?
Wol Euler: next meeting with possible client is wednesday afternoon
Agatha Macbeth: Any new projects in the pipeline?
Wol Euler: just that one
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler: and a competition due in mid-march
Agatha Macbeth: Seems laggy tonight
Wol Euler: very
Agatha Macbeth: or is it me?
Agatha Macbeth: ah
Wol Euler: my.secondlife.com is lagging terribly too
Wol Euler: keeps timing out
Agatha Macbeth: Oh what's that?
Agatha Macbeth: Hi K
Korel Laloix: Heya.
Agatha Macbeth: No Yaku?
Wol Euler: hello korel
Wol Euler: apparently not
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
Wol Euler: ty
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: yw
Wol Euler: speak of the devil
Agatha Macbeth: Ha
Wol Euler: nabend yaku
Agatha Macbeth: Yo Yak
Agatha Macbeth: I just claimed your log, sorry
Wol Euler: looks like yaku is only present in body ...
Wol Euler: ah
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
Agatha Macbeth: The body has the log anyways :p
Wol Euler smiles.
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a very small round today
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: A heard a really bad starwars joke the other day about logs....
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler listens.
Korel Laloix: Let me think.
Agatha Macbeth: Fire away K
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Korel Laloix: Have to remember it.
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, that helps :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: I don't do jokes well.
Korel Laloix: Ok... got it.
Agatha Macbeth: You know what they say about women are no good at telling jokes
Korel Laloix: This is tacky... so edit might be needed for the log...
Wol Euler: erm, no?
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: What did Spock find in the toilet?
Wol Euler guesses.
Korel Laloix: The Capatin's log.
Agatha Macbeth: I think I know whats coming
Korel Laloix: lol
Wol Euler: heheheh
Korel Laloix: ick.
Agatha Macbeth: I was right (ick)
Wol Euler: ah yes
Agatha Macbeth: :D
Agatha Macbeth: Illogical captain
Korel Laloix: Who is next?
Agatha Macbeth: Good question
Agatha Macbeth: Wol?
Wol Euler: who is on second
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
--BELL--
Wol Euler: okay, two tigers are walking through the jungle, single file.
Wol Euler: out of the blue, the second tiger leans forward and gives the first tiger a good thorough lick on the arse.
Wol Euler: first tiger looks back, says "wtf? don't do that."
Wol Euler: they walk on
Wol Euler: and eventually the second tiger again leans forward, and gives the first tiger
Wol Euler: 's arse a lick
Wol Euler: first tiger clouts him on the ear and says "stop that!"
Wol Euler: they walk on
Wol Euler: and on
Wol Euler: and finally, you know it has to happen, the second tiger once again leans forward and gives the first tiger's arse a good lick
Wol Euler: first tiger stops in its tracks, spins around, and gives the second tiger a thump that sends it flying into the bushes
Wol Euler: "what the hell is wrong with you today?!?"
Wol Euler: second tiger crawls out of the bushes, all apologetic
Wol Euler: "I'm really sorry. It's just that I ate a lawyer thsi morning and I can't get the taste out of my mouth."
Agatha Macbeth: HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth hugs you
Korel Laloix: I work with a bunch of lawyers... going to have to tell that one soon.
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Agatha Macbeth: Poor you!
Agatha Macbeth: Hold on a mo, I'm gonna see if Phoenix is any less laggy than FS
Wol Euler: http://www.iciclesoftware.com/LawJok...eLawJokes.html <- a long long page of lawyer jokes, including that one
Korel Laloix: And the rest are CPAs... lol
Wol Euler: wb aggers
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb aga
Agatha Macbeth: ty
Korel Laloix: Who is next?
Wol Euler: Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a trampoline? A: You take off your shoes before you jump on a trampoline.
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: Good ones.
Wol Euler: aggers, are you next?
Wol Euler: yaku?
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, still not great, but ok
Yakuzza Lethecus: you take off your shoes before you jump the trampoline, but cheated :(
Yakuzza Lethecus: i read it on the page :P
Wol Euler: yep
Yakuzza Lethecus: really got to smile :)
Korel Laloix: Interesting how it is still universially politically correct to tell lawyer jokes.
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth: That's cos people hate lawyers :p
Wol Euler: at least among non-lawyers
Wol Euler: they have a rather unfortunate reputation
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: much like politicians
Korel Laloix: That is the problem with lawyers though... 99 percent give the rest a bad reputation..
Wol Euler: the Ralph Naders and Erin Brockovich's can't outweigh that
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Yakuzza Lethecus: just heard another story before about somene sueing another because of slipping on not properly cleared snow, few ppl try to make money on everything possible
Wol Euler: yep
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, nothing new
Wol Euler: when I was a kid, it was assumed (a) that shit happened, and (b) that you were responsible for what you did
Agatha Macbeth: Ambulance chasers
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should get Gilles' take on that one [grin]
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: People just odn't want to be responsibleand lawyers help.
Wol Euler: yep
Wol Euler: encourage, sometimes, which is worse
Korel Laloix: A lot of the lawyers here can't stand those sorts of lawyers either.
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: that link seems to have stopped the proceedings :)
Wol Euler: so I guess it's time for
Wol Euler: a quick
Wol Euler: onigokko
Korel Laloix: stop
Wol Euler snorts.
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: cardio
Korel Laloix: Someone has to be the mature supervision around here.
Agatha Macbeth: That was quick alright
Korel Laloix grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
Korel Laloix: stop
Korel Laloix: lol
Agatha Macbeth: onigekko
Wol Euler: onigokko
Agatha Macbeth sees lizards running around
Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
Korel Laloix: Thank goodness I at least cant here it.
Agatha Macbeth: Hi ho Silver
Wol Euler: oh, you#re right, I have no sound either. Hadn't noticed
Agatha Macbeth: Whaaaaat?
Agatha Macbeth: Took you til 1.40 to notice that?
Wol Euler: yeah
Agatha Macbeth: OMG
Wol Euler: sorry
Agatha Macbeth sits on your head
Wol Euler: website sound works ...
Agatha Macbeth: Prefs maybe?
Wol Euler: a
Wol Euler: buu
Wol Euler: huh
Korel Laloix: lol
Agatha Macbeth: buu
Agatha Macbeth: Hear that?
Wol Euler: nope
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
Wol Euler: buu
Agatha Macbeth: I used to have this prob with the bells a lot
Wol Euler: ah! got it
Wol Euler: I'd turned off sound effects
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, that *would* account for it :p
Wol Euler: hello zen
Korel Laloix: That is the best choice.
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Zen
Zen Arado: hi all
Korel Laloix: Take care all.. get to leave early today.
Wol Euler: bye korel, take care
Agatha Macbeth: Behave yourself
Agatha Macbeth: (or not)
Korel Laloix: Big date again tonight... I always do... smiles
--BELL--
Zen Arado: bye korel
Korel Laloix: Ciao.
Zen Arado: not many here tonight
Agatha Macbeth: Surprisingly quiet for a friday
Wol Euler: aye
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zen
Zen Arado: I'm al mixedup between two computers
Yakuzza Lethecus: you bought a new one ?
Agatha Macbeth: Ouch
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am all in between falling asleep and staying awake :)
Wol Euler: 7sm
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: takes ages toset thm up
Zen Arado: or takes me ages to set one up!
Zen Arado: Tryingto trasfer files from old computer
Wol Euler: pity they weren't macs :) you just connect them by firewire cable, and say "transfer my stuff"
Wol Euler: makes the new one a faster bigger copy of the old one
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sunfire
Yakuzza Lethecus: haven´t seen yo in a long time
Sunfire Langer bows 'hello'
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Sunfire
Wol Euler: hello sunfire, nice to meet you
Zen Arado: that's too easy for me wol
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: heheh
Zen Arado: I alwas haveto mak thing complcated
Agatha Macbeth: I think I have something similar for PC, but never used it
Yakuzza Lethecus: do you also do digital drawing zen ?
Zen Arado: well Ive finshed up copying and pasting music files from an external hard drive
Zen Arado: no have never done digital art very much except on an iPone
Agatha Macbeth: That's a start then :)
Zen Arado: it was a start and finish though
Sunfire Langer: vuvuzelas at Play as Being, what disassembled days...
Agatha Macbeth: Awww
Wol Euler: buu
Agatha Macbeth: buu
Agatha Macbeth: snap
Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
Wol Euler: heheheh
Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Did korel come back?
Sunfire Langer: did we have a subject for the session today?
Agatha Macbeth: Don't recall one
Yakuzza Lethecus: lawyers jokes
Wol Euler: we had some good jokes :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes
Agatha Macbeth: Well, some jokes anyway
Sunfire Langer: What do you call someeone's reason for acting when it's really crazy?
Agatha Macbeth: I give up
Sunfire Langer: A loco-motive
Wol Euler chuckles.
Agatha Macbeth: Awwwwww
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i think somewhere of wanting a good serendipity subject out of the blue and just falling asleep :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: sorry 'm working with two computers
Wol Euler: it seems everyone is a bit slow / distracted today
Sunfire Langer: I have something about the 'will' if its of interest
Zen Arado: and multitasking doesn't suit me
Agatha Macbeth: And one is bad enough :p
Zen Arado: sure is
Agatha Macbeth: Please do Sun
Yakuzza Lethecus: multitasking actually stops me thinking and i sometimes step out of my rut better
Zen Arado: go ahead Sun
Zen Arado: if you will
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure sun
Zen Arado: :)
Sunfire Langer: We have struggled philosophically with the idea of will, either free will, lack of it, determinism, 'absolute free will'. Each model has had to deal with the framing of the debate about a single entity making a self-caused direction on its own action.
Zen Arado: it would be okay f I knew what was doing Yaku
Sunfire Langer: This has led the discussion to challenging the single entity's ability to do that, but I think that misleads us too, because it is built on a faulty concept.
Zen Arado: I thin it's ll buit on a faulty way of thinking
Zen Arado: I usedto be a compatibist determinist
Zen Arado: I thin free will is just a human concept that doesn't mean much
Zen Arado: in fact I dont thin there is any entity to choose
Zen Arado: choices are mde based on one's genetics, upbringing, culture, experiences etc
Sunfire Langer: The idea of a single entity, that like an atom, (a soul) cannot be split into constituent parts damns the debate to what a single entity can do in terms of willing (atm the opinion is not a great deal). But in one person there is a community of influences and impulses (a community of souls) in the cause of one's action there is not just self-direction, but a miasma of sensations and influences and states that come from interfacing with one's environment. I think because of this to talk of will and volition in terms of one human will always be inadequate. We must talk about will and volition more solubly
Zen Arado: and there is no one to choose
Zen Arado: yes that is putting it in another way I thik
Zen Arado: do you agree with DavidHume's "bundle theor? D
Sunfire Langer: as transmitted between people, in movements and tides and evolutions of it. We must talk more subtley and more articulately than 'one chooses one's action' - there is no 'I', so to say 'I will' is defunct
Wol Euler: so you're saying that our minds don't exist in a vacuum? I'd agree with that
Zen Arado: Yes
Wol Euler: (sorry for putting it so simply :)
Zen Arado: if there is no "I" there is no one there to choose
Zen Arado: simpleis bes I thik
Sunfire Langer: I'm not familiar with Hume's bundle theory. I heavily distrust his thinking, though, Zen
Sunfire Langer: We can thank him for the is/ought gap playing havoc with ethics
Zen Arado: why Sun?
Zen Arado: the no self idea is in Buddhsm or non-dual teachings or in personal identity in philosophy
Zen Arado: if you are into philosophy examine the topic of personal identity
Wol Euler: sorry, I am too tired to follow this properly
Zen Arado: there are many arguments against the idea of some essence or something that stays the same and throughout our lives
Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care. enjoy the weekend!
Zen Arado: yeah it's a bit heavy:)
Zen Arado: night Wol
Agatha Macbeth: I need to move on too
Sunfire Langer: Harris, a staunch empiricist, confirms there is no 'I', there is no locus for it in the brain, it is a social institution - a trend of our human psychology, something developmental, Zen
Agatha Macbeth: have fun everybody
Zen Arado: I thin I'll go to a dance or something:)
Sunfire Langer: Well, not as simple as 'there is noone to choose; therefore there is no choice' - there are choices made. I'm saying these choices are made at a more fluid level than a single individual - this is a bit like the 'continuum of being' that Jung put about
Sunfire Langer: I effectively emptied the room :/
Zen Arado: I thin nature just moves through us because we are a part of nature
--BELL--
Zen Arado: but we like to think we are discreet individuals
Sunfire Langer: 'Nature' isn't an entity, its not even an ecosystem. Please lets not anthropomorphosise it
Zen Arado: exactly is just everything I was't splitting it or dividing it are categorising it in any way
Zen Arado: anyway I realy haveto go
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night zen
Zen Arado: talk sme othr time
Zen Arado: bye
Sunfire Langer: see ya
Yakuzza Lethecus: free will is a good subject but the arguments are really hard to digest
Sunfire Langer: they invited what I had to say then were overwhelmed. Humph
Yakuzza Lethecus: it was also the end of the regular session time