2012.06.03 07:00 - Infinite Number of Perspectives

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

Perspectives were not so infinite this morning but there were lots of mutuals misunderstandings across the board. Korel's words in which she told of not feeling well are missing from the first few lines and Boxy and Stevenai's chat, who stayed for a good while after Korel left, are missing from the end. Possibly they switched to IM.

We tried to talk about the "Sally" theme but could the theme kept getting redefined as we went along. Frankly I thought about not posting this log but it wwould not be fair to the other attendees for me to make that decision.

Adams Rubble: Good morning Korel :)
Adams Rubble: Hope you are well this morning
Adams Rubble: ohhhh
Adams Rubble: sorry to hear that
Adams Rubble: no
Adams Rubble: :(
Adams Rubble: not too much in SL
Adams Rubble: still busy in RL
Adams Rubble: yes, good to do that
Adams Rubble: I thought things were done but many unresolved matters this year
Adams Rubble: Heve you been to other sessions this week with the sally theme?
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: It was an interesting theme but I have not had much time to think about it
Adams Rubble: I am sort of sallying as Grandma Rubble with my dress this mirning :)
Adams Rubble: but she lived before SL and so did not have much of a life
Korel Laloix: I never actually read the subject announcement. Do you have it?
Adams Rubble: Hello Alfred :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Korel Laloix: Heya
Alfred Kelberry: quiet morning?
Korel Laloix: Mostly.... tummy not doing well though.
Korel Laloix: How about you?
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Adams Rubble: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chronicles/The_Chapter_27%3a_Spring_2012/B._May_2012/B1%3a_Sallies
Alfred Kelberry: *rubs kori's tummy*
Korel Laloix: wado
Korel Laloix: Thanks.. but I am not sure you want broken fingers... smiles
Alfred Kelberry: heh :) did you have dairy products?
Korel Laloix: None.
Korel Laloix: We just had a couple of drinks and some nibbles.
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that date of yours? she did call after all?
Alfred Kelberry: adams, how's the blog doing? all good?
Korel Laloix: Yes... late... pretty sure I won't see her again.. like that at least.
Adams Rubble: Blogs are good, thank you boxy
Adams Rubble: we had started to talk about this week's theme
Adams Rubble: Were you at any "sally" sessions this week boxy?
Alfred Kelberry: yes... shamanic visions or something, as storm described it
Alfred Kelberry: not particularly interested :)
Adams Rubble: that would be a bit limiting I would think
Adams Rubble: and dismissive
Korel Laloix: Reading this... will take time.. at an edge of my English.
Adams Rubble: I think Lia saw it as an exercise not a vision
Adams Rubble: to move ourselves out of our ruts
Korel Laloix: I like my ruts.... smiles
Korel Laloix: Deliberatly put msyelf in them... makes life more predicatable in ways.
Adams Rubble: routine is good most of the time
Adams Rubble: but it can stagnate
Korel Laloix: True... you just have to chose.
Adams Rubble: or see it
Alfred Kelberry: kori, maybe "putting yourself into ruts" is a way of getting out of a current one :)
Korel Laloix: I think ruts are tools.
Korel Laloix: Could be.
Korel Laloix: And any tool can be missused.
Korel Laloix: Or over relied on.
Alfred Kelberry: i think lia meant mind traveling to various places, correct?
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: sometimes fun to think about what Grandma Rubble might have done :)
Adams Rubble: whoops
Alfred Kelberry: like going to bali, perhaps, while sitting on your porch in midwest
Adams Rubble apologizes for talking past the pause
Korel Laloix: I miss it as well sometimes.
Adams Rubble: Even that is more an exerccise than a shamanic vision Boxy
Korel Laloix: But really... when I spend the time to really do an indepth daydream... there is sex involved... lol
Adams Rubble: culture is a mightly powerful influence
Korel Laloix: And I htink a lot of people are that way... smiles
Alfred Kelberry: adams, that was storm's description. not quite sure what it meant :)
Korel Laloix: Interesting thought.. different daydreams for differet cultures.
Alfred Kelberry: kori, sex on a shore of bali... nice
Adams Rubble: yes Boxy, but put that way it is limiting and dismissive
Korel Laloix: dissmissive?
Adams Rubble: That it is purely shamanistic vision
Adams Rubble: the sallying, not the sex
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Korel Laloix: There are induced dreams as well.
Korel Laloix: Like is peyote culture.
Adams Rubble: Last night I dreamed I was sleeping through successive dreams
Adams Rubble: very peaceful night
Korel Laloix: Sweat lodges, other natural pharmasuticals that cultures use.
Korel Laloix: WOnder about the differences.
Adams Rubble wants to be clear that she is not dismissing shamanic visions
Adams Rubble: but thinking of PaB as an exploratory group
Adams Rubble: Lia's "sallying" can be seen more broadly
Adams Rubble: as an exercise
Adams Rubble: even scientific exercise
Adams Rubble: for tose scientists among us :)
Adams Rubble: those
Korel Laloix: I am not dismisive of visions at all.
Adams Rubble: Spirit guides are another phenomena
Korel Laloix: I just wonder how different they are from regular daydreams.
Adams Rubble: daydreams are not disciplined
Korel Laloix: Very common practice in parts of my community.
Adams Rubble: but like dreams they can tell us things about ourselves
Korel Laloix: I virtually never remember my dreams.
Adams Rubble: dreams are tricky, they fly away if we do not grab them :)
Korel Laloix: Mine are never pleasant, so I think my mind sheilds me from them...not sure though.
Adams Rubble: our minds are working away on things all night :)
Adams Rubble: last night mine decided to sleep :)
Korel Laloix: I know I dream... I just can't remember them.
Alfred Kelberry: kori, what do you mean by visions?
Korel Laloix: Well... for my culture.... visions are very important.
Korel Laloix: Ways of finding ways through the future.
Alfred Kelberry: can you give an example?
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: To be cliche' about it... ever hear the term Vision Quest?
Alfred Kelberry: is it like seeing an eagle flying low and interpret it a certain way projected into the future?
Alfred Kelberry: no, not familiar with this term
Korel Laloix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_quest
Alfred Kelberry: ah, off into the wilderness. yes, i get it.
Korel Laloix: And there are other rituals.
Alfred Kelberry: that's more like stages in life. not sure how it's related to daydreaming and visions.
Korel Laloix: It is a vision that helps you in the stage of life.
Korel Laloix: But these are important moments.
Korel Laloix: brb
Korel Laloix: back
Adams Rubble: wb
Korel Laloix: I do think things of a spiritual nature are very much dismissed in our culture.
Korel Laloix: We pay attention to dreams somewhat, but not waking ones.
Alfred Kelberry: ah, you mean vision in a sense of a goal or mission
Korel Laloix: No.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Korel Laloix: As in an impression on our minds from something beyond science.
Adams Rubble: In a vision all ones senses are involved
Alfred Kelberry: ok, how does it work for a young chap who is sent out into the forest to "find himself"?
Korel Laloix: It's personal.
Korel Laloix: Different things speak to you differently.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: This brings us back around to the broader sense that we can experience things for ourselves
Adams Rubble: find our own forest
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Steve :)
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Heya.

The hour was up at this point and I needed to go back to RL

Adams Rubble: I am afraid I must go. I do have the log and will post it when you all are finished
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Adams Rubble: I hope you all have good days or evenings :)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Adams
Adams Rubble: thank you for th conversation
Alfred Kelberry: kori, you mean, as he is walking in the forest alone, various "visions" come to him, that reveal him of his nature and the future?
stevenaia Michinaga: nice dress, very 30's ?
Korel Laloix: Taek care.
Alfred Kelberry: stev :)
Adams Rubble: bye
Korel Laloix: COuld be... depends on the questions in his heart.. .
Adams Rubble: yes, Grandma Rubble's Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: smile
Korel Laloix: And by the way... it is not just for hes.
Korel Laloix: We where chatting about visions.
Alfred Kelberry: ok. yes, it's a rather common image of "finding oneself" portrayed in books and movies.
Korel Laloix: Sort of like that...
stevenaia Michinaga: snice
Korel Laloix: An interesting topic in some ways.
Alfred Kelberry: face the origins, the nature, alone, and see what you're made of :)
Korel Laloix: Might need to read back a bit.
Korel Laloix: Facing nature is a small part....
Korel Laloix: Ffacing yourself is the difficult bit.
stevenaia Michinaga: always tough to avoid personal bas
stevenaia Michinaga: bias
stevenaia Michinaga: I usually rely on the view of others
Korel Laloix: But sometimes, the clarity from being alone ireally really waht you need.
stevenaia Michinaga: then use my bias to pick through the truth
Alfred Kelberry: kori, right
stevenaia Michinaga: there is something to be gain by that as well, no simple path
Alfred Kelberry: it is similar to how personality is often revealed in a time of distress
stevenaia Michinaga: like the best and worst
Korel Laloix: I think though the ritual of it in my context really does add to it.
Korel Laloix: The significance is not lost.
stevenaia Michinaga: ponders what is significant?
Korel Laloix: When you are set up for your vision.. with a mentor or mentors.. at a critical time in your life...
Korel Laloix: It adds a weight to it.
Korel Laloix: If it is something you do every day.... there is not the same importance.
Alfred Kelberry: to me those are random junctures in life that happen to play a significant role
Korel Laloix: No really... in a given culture, certain points in your life are structured to be important.
Alfred Kelberry: like taking a wrong turn on a road and meeting your wife as a consequence :)
Korel Laloix: Maybe it was meant to be?
Alfred Kelberry: ah, yes. those are social constraints, that affect a lot of people. my junctions are pertained to an individual.
stevenaia Michinaga: everything is meant to be, mostly for the eventual better
Alfred Kelberry: kori, it's a rhetorical question :)
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: I just discound the idea that evertying is random.
Alfred Kelberry: you can't prove either
Korel Laloix: brb
stevenaia Michinaga: I agree, fate is always with us
Alfred Kelberry: hence it's a matter of perspective
stevenaia Michinaga: perspective only changes the view, not the thing
stevenaia Michinaga: appearances
Alfred Kelberry: yes, meaning what? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: meaning every thing has an infinite number of perspectives (a picture is worth 1000 words)
Korel Laloix: Well... according to some theories.... just the act of observation changes things.
Alfred Kelberry: true
Korel Laloix: Both in psych and in physics.
Korel Laloix: Heizenberg?
stevenaia Michinaga: brb...laundry
stevenaia Michinaga: (RL)
Korel Laloix: Not SL laundry?... smiles
Korel Laloix: So I do think perspective does change things..
Alfred Kelberry: i lost the thread of the sally/daydream/vision connection :)
Korel Laloix: Steve said that perspecitve only changes the view.. not the thing.
Korel Laloix: I am not sure I agree on that.
Alfred Kelberry: er, ok
Korel Laloix: YOu should work on your own vision Boxy.
Alfred Kelberry: hmm... i just got a note
Alfred Kelberry: "AAUW Talk Please join us on Minerva to hear Sarah Stewart, a midwife for 30 years, and a specialist in e-learning. She'll explain why an installation in a virtual world makes sense for midwifery, and will lead us on a tour of the SLENZ midwifery build"
stevenaia Michinaga: back
Alfred Kelberry: kori, ah! you reminded me, i forgot my eye drops :)
Alfred Kelberry: "vision" :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, if the "thing" is not an object, perspective can change what is seen, like a thought, emothon , event
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Thanks for teh chat all.
Korel Laloix: Take care...
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Korel