The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

There was a restart but it didn't last long today:

Zen Arado: wb
Zen Arado: it just came back
Zen Arado: they shut it down for maintenance every Wednesday
Zen Arado: so I usually go to Kira until it comes back on
Zen Arado: you have been here before haven't you?
Zen Arado: so you are ok with your conversation being recorded on the Wiki?
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Zen Arado: just got back from restart
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, i was actually wondering if i should go to mieum first
Zen Arado: they were quick today
Zen Arado: 10 minutes only
Zen Arado: not many around today
Zen Arado: maybe this transhumanism topic puts people off
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello fritz
Zen Arado: but it is happening anyway
Zen Arado: unless there is a big war and we all go back to being primitive again
Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t check the guardian meeting log yet
Zen Arado: I bought a book about it and posted an overview of some of the themes
Zen Arado: but I haven't read the whole book yet
Zen Arado: it is a series of essays about transhumanism
Zen Arado: from various perspectives
Yakuzza Lethecus: you don´t have to stand there fritz, you may sit here too
Zen Arado: I thought he was rezzing
Zen Arado: why don't you come and sit on one of the cushions Fritz?
Zen Arado: okay

Mica closing:

Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, mica is closing down
Zen Arado: I was thinking maybe transhumanism is more interesting when you get older
Zen Arado: it is?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, it seems like it :(
Zen Arado: I don't even know if I am in that or not
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.mica-vw.org/wiki/index.ph...l_Astrophysics
Zen Arado: so many groups
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, but mica was particularly good
Zen Arado: did Pema start that?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think so
Yakuzza Lethecus: well when i came to sl the relam was pretty active in the kira cafe or the dome besides it too
Zen Arado: they used to have lectures about black holes and things?
Zen Arado: I think I went to some of them
Zen Arado: do you go to any philosophy meetings?
Yakuzza Lethecus: not anymore

Philosophy of Science:

Zen Arado: I think I am starting to get interested in philosophy of science
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur really ciclling :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: circling
Zen Arado: I know :-)
Zen Arado: I bought a book about consciousness
Zen Arado: 'A Very Short Introduction to Consciousness'
Zen Arado: nobody knows what consciousness is
Zen Arado: if it is anything
Yakuzza Lethecus: we even struggle on the question of free will i guess
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: some of these concepts are dreamt up by philosophers and don't really mean anything
Zen Arado: that's why we never find any solution
Zen Arado: they are just interesting things to think about
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, like that the brain is active a few hundred milliseconds before we can answer
Zen Arado: we don't even know where thoughts come from
Zen Arado: they just seem to come up spontaneously
Zen Arado: maybe they come from outside us
Zen Arado: who knows?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i still like to hear about these things and often wonder what is the right kind of environment to enforce grows to good ways of thinking, since somehow we get influenced by our environment all the time
Zen Arado: yes, sometimes I think too much
Zen Arado: how do you mean Fritz?

Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu (whisper)
Bleu Oleander waves :)

Political philosophies:

Zen Arado: I guess the only way we can over come that is to be critical of the ideas
Zen Arado: yeah, we forget that politicians need to base their policies on some kind of thinking
Zen Arado: some underlying foundation of thought
Zen Arado: I suppose they don't have much time to sit and think about the whole basis of their practical policies
Zen Arado: but most of them have studied some political philosophy before they became politicians
Zen Arado: one of the things that bothers me about politicians is that they don't seem to be capable of are allowed to change their minds
Zen Arado: it makes them look weak if they do
Zen Arado: one of the arguments against transhumanism is based on an idea like that
Zen Arado: that they just focus on self fulfilment
Zen Arado: all that kind of shallow idea of just pleasure
Zen Arado: on a
Zen Arado: a bit like utilitarianism... The greatest happiness for the greatest number
Yakuzza Lethecus: there is a famous quote a german politician once said ,,Was interessiert mich mein Geschwätz von gestern?"
Zen Arado: what does that mean Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: translation "What do i care about my yesterday talk."
Zen Arado: I agree Fritz
Zen Arado: but they were attempts to find a way to live more harmoniously with others
Yakuzza Lethecus: *Konrad Adenauer said that
Zen Arado: what we have to do is improve our ideas
Zen Arado: but I'm not keen on the idea of happiness through chemical means
Zen Arado: maybe we need to suffer negative things
Zen Arado: maybe we wouldn't have any character without that
Bleu Oleander: hard to imagine there wouldn't be negative things
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but we still define negative for ourselves and how close negative must be to take action about it
Bleu Oleander: hi boxy
Alfred Kelberry: storm is slacking off again... not present
Zen Arado: I suppose we have removed a lot of this suffering from our lives though
Zen Arado: Hi Alf :)
Alfred Kelberry: what's the cause?
Zen Arado: I'm sure there are plenty :-)
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all ... gotta run :)
Zen Arado: byeeBleu
Alfred Kelberry: yaku: nope
Zen Arado: what are they protesting about?

Political uncertainty and economic weakness:

Zen Arado: protesting against Putin
Zen Arado: but wasn't he elected?
Alfred Kelberry: that was yesterday. russia's independence day.
Zen Arado: 'One of the weaknesses of Russia's opposition is its failure to produce a clear popular leader.'
Zen Arado: they don't have anybody to stand up to him
Zen Arado: Europe seems very unsettled these days
Zen Arado: lots of people rebelling against their leadership
Zen Arado: plus the economic situation
Zen Arado: in in Greece the hospitals are only operating one day a week I heard
Zen Arado: they have run out of money
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: troubled times
Zen Arado: it's a bit like when Hitler came to power
Zen Arado: sometimes these kinds of times produce a strong leader
Zen Arado: I hope that doesn't happen
Zen Arado: people want certainty
Zen Arado: yes, we are still well off compared to the underdeveloped countries
Zen Arado: but maybe this uncertainty will spread
Zen Arado: the poorer countries are having to be bailed out financially
Zen Arado: we are all in Europe together
Zen Arado: what's the solution Alf?
Alfred Kelberry: social policies to restrain deregulated free market
Zen Arado: but you need free trade to stimulate growth?
Zen Arado: Reaganomics seem to be based on greed
Zen Arado: our economics that should be
Alfred Kelberry: yes, growth for growth's sake
Zen Arado: this voice typing must be Republican :-)
Alfred Kelberry: free trade yes, but regulated
Alfred Kelberry: zen :)
Zen Arado: it's all based on Keynesian ideas isn't it ?
Zen Arado: growth
Zen Arado: we can't keep on growing forever

Zen Arado: I don't think anybody really understands the world economic situation
Zen Arado: the politicians just blunder along and look confident
Zen Arado: if it turns out right they take the credit
Zen Arado: if it turns out wrong they blame the opposition
Zen Arado: and what the opposition did in their last spell of government
Zen Arado: where markets are beginning to be run by computer programs
Zen Arado: we are in danger I think
Alfred Kelberry: politicians are pawns in this game ran by investment bankers
Zen Arado: yes, and what a disaster the investment bankers created for us
Zen Arado: just thinking of short term gain for themselves
Alfred Kelberry: and they know damn well what they do when they sell toxic, zero worth products on the market
Zen Arado: advertising convinces us we need all of these toys
Zen Arado: and big fancy gas guzzling cars
Zen Arado: no matter that we are running out of oil
Zen Arado: the next generation can worry about that, is the attitude
Alfred Kelberry: sadly, consumerism is now taking over more conservative societies like germany for example
Zen Arado: the Germans are more sensible though
Alfred Kelberry: yes, for now
Zen Arado: I can't talk, I'm consumerist too
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: if we weren't consumerist the market would collapse
Zen Arado: all of the people making the toys would be out of work
Zen Arado: we need a new kind of society
Zen Arado: there should be enough wealth around for all of us
Zen Arado: maybe we need to work at different things
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: so many people travelling about in big jets too
Zen Arado: and building bigger and bigger planes
Zen Arado: anyway, I have ranted enough for today :-)
Zen Arado: I don't think the world is going to change to suit me
Zen Arado: I can't even change myself :-)
Zen Arado: I better go
Zen Arado: byee

Curators of Sweden project:

Alfred Kelberry: yaku, does evy know about @sweden on twitter?
Alfred Kelberry: awesome project

Yakuzza Lethecus: what´s that ?
Alfred Kelberry: http://curatorsofsweden.com/about/
druth Vlodovic: hey guys
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey druth
Alfred Kelberry: druth :)
druth Vlodovic: neat idea, be interesting if it works
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, if
Alfred Kelberry: it already works. been on since december.
Yakuzza Lethecus: it seems it was handed to a troll or something
druth Vlodovic: sometimes it is surprising what works, like wikipedia, for example :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/13...y-jew-comments
Alfred Kelberry: perhaps, but a swedish citizen nonetheless :)
druth Vlodovic: the secrtet is sometimes to forge ahead and ignore the occasional disruption
Alfred Kelberry: too much unjust drama about it
druth Vlodovic: "don't feed the trolls"
Alfred Kelberry: in any case, i applaud the swedish government for having their citizens speak out without censorship
druth Vlodovic: I think I have a twitter account but can't remember the login lol
druth Vlodovic: courage isn't called courage because it is risk free
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t have a twitter account

Yakuzza Lethecus: eve didn´t even know about that before the little scandal there, btw boxy
Alfred Kelberry: yaku: yes, thanks to drama queens everyone knows now :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: from the publicity point of view it was a good advertisement for the project
druth Vlodovic: "say it good, or say it bad, but say it loud."
druth Vlodovic: the problem is often that reasonable people are too reasonable to take the risk of joining a troubled project, and thus drown out the unreasonable people
Yakuzza Lethecus: good point
Yakuzza Lethecus: also a sad one

People leaving SL:

Yakuzza Lethecus: anyone else read that mica is closing down ?
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Alfred Kelberry: sad, but oh well
druth Vlodovic: just did, any news on why?
Alfred Kelberry: no actual reason was stated
Alfred Kelberry: george said that it was the experiment that is now ended (or something like that)
Yakuzza Lethecus: goethe insitut is also soon leaving sl, a lot of great places closing down atm
Alfred Kelberry: yes, reasonable minds are leaving :)
druth Vlodovic: so the rest of us get to take over :)
Yakuzza Lethecus was only thinking that
Alfred Kelberry: i actually lean towards leaving as well
druth Vlodovic: why?
Yakuzza Lethecus: are there still science circle activities ?
druth Vlodovic: sometimes the fun goes out of SL for a while
druth Vlodovic: like anything really
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
druth Vlodovic: I've taken weeks off before, and it is usually a good idea, even if it does cause me to lose track of people
druth Vlodovic: is there anything specific bothering you boxy? or just in general
Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to leave, boxy don´t want to make ur stuck but like to see you being around anyway, hope the right activities emerge in sl soon again
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya both soon
druth Vlodovic: have fun yaku

Alfred Kelberry: well, i'm off now
druth Vlodovic: ok, have fun
Alfred Kelberry: bye druth