The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways, joined by Bruce and Boxy.

After a really quick read through the email material (thank you Eliza, et.al.) something hit about this week's topic of "Memory".

The GoC sat alone quietly for some time.  [Which was a good thing because there was a biz web conference call going on too].

                     --BELL-- 
Riddle Sideways: morning, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Riddle.
Bruce Mowbray: and good morning, Penguin.
Riddle Sideways: how is your memory today?
Bruce Mowbray: Affirmative. . . and always fascinating, thanks.
Bruce Mowbray: How's yours?
Riddle Sideways: and welcome, Penguin

Riddle Sideways: been reading emails about memories
Riddle Sideways: already confused
Bruce Mowbray: I've been pondering the question: "Is memory one mode of knowledge?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Riddle Sideways: or only one
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, one mode among many modes of knowledge.
Bruce Mowbray: Example: We might go back to a favorite place from childhood and say, "Oh! I know this place!"
Riddle Sideways: the confusion might be over trying to condense memory therories to only mode of knowledge
Bruce Mowbray: When in fact, we "remember" having known that place.
Bruce Mowbray: So, are memories one mode of knowledge-connecting?
Bruce Mowbray remembers this penguin from a previous session, for example. . .
                     --BELL-- 
Riddle Sideways: yes, connecting Knowledge
Riddle Sideways: wondering if/how knowledge can be connected without memory
Bruce Mowbray: I was also pondering how "dream memories" differ from "waking memories...." in the manner of their connections.
Bruce Mowbray: I cannot see how knowledge could be "connected" -- how things in differing times of experience could be connected without memory.
Bruce Mowbray: But this seems far more fluid in dreams.
 

     The following is Play.  None of the conversants came in with these prepared speeches. 

Riddle Sideways: and was pondering a dataset software database therory where a 'quality' factor is used
Riddle Sideways: a few bits about the quality of these memories
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Riddle.
Bruce Mowbray: What would the criteria for "quality" be, Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: a value of how much this memory datum can be trusted as fact
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh!
Riddle Sideways: e.g. "this is just a dream memory, so will not trust it"
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the matter of "trust" always comes into play with memory.
Bruce Mowbray: But doesn't it also come into play with first-hand experience (which we might be more prone to call "knowledge")?
Riddle Sideways: might
Riddle Sideways: give it a quality rating
Riddle Sideways: dependant on point of view
Bruce Mowbray: When watching my own memories, I always seem to take "quality" into consideration....
Riddle Sideways: authority of witnessing
Bruce Mowbray: (I should have typed , I SHOULD always take "quality" into consideration.)
Bruce Mowbray: Memories are SO polluted by passion,m with me.
Bruce Mowbray: by aversion and preference.... for example.
Riddle Sideways: a quality value of how factual the source of that knowledge-memory
Bruce Mowbray: So, would it be good to have peer-review to confirm our memories?
Bruce Mowbray: and does the database do that in some manner?
Riddle Sideways: ah, scientific methods... using peer review
Riddle Sideways: e.g. looking over at friend to ask "did you see that ?"
Riddle Sideways: and remembering, Alfred
Bruce Mowbray: In John Steinbeck's novel OF MICE AND MEN, the two main characters continually "use" each other's perspective and memories of things (including their ife's dream) - to judge the validity of their own experiences.
Alfred Kelberry: have no fear, boxy is here
Riddle Sideways: the Boxy pup
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Boxy!
Bruce Mowbray: yum yum.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: so, possibly every memory has a quality value in it's metadata
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, how did the novel end?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, and we probably think we'd need to compare/asses/make some "rating" of the quality of each "memory" in the data.
Riddle Sideways: or several quality values e.g. "Joe thought this was true"
                     --BELL-- 
Bruce Mowbray: (Spoiler coming.... OK?)
Bruce Mowbray: assess* (sry)
Alfred Kelberry: they turned into mice? :)
Bruce Mowbray: The novel ends in the same location that it started . . . a quiet pond away from the ranch where they worked. . . with George shooting his friend Lennie in the back of the head -- in order to same him from the mean boss's son.
Bruce Mowbray: to save him*
Bruce Mowbray: I told you it would be a spoiler....
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Bruce Mowbray: but we were talking about the "validity" of memory -- and the "quality" of items in a database (how much they can be trusted to be accurate).
Alfred Kelberry: i wonder if shooting the boss' son would make a difference
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it wouldn't have worked well in the novel. . .
Riddle Sideways: so, now there is a memory datum with metadata that tags it as "Bruce (a reliable source) gave the novel's spoiler"
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm. . . . Novels are also interesting "memory" pieces....
Riddle Sideways: yes, the constant "just a novel" value
Alfred Kelberry: ah, validity. as i mentioned yesterday, i tend to agree with the theory that says we reconstruct memory each time we access it, hence alter it continuously.
Riddle Sideways: how true is the knowledge derived
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Bruce cannot be trusted to ruin the plot's excitement. . . for those who have not yet read it.
Bruce Mowbray: Or perhaps Bruce CAN be trusted to ruin it!
Riddle Sideways: and messing with it's metadata on each access
Riddle Sideways: or a linked list of accesses history
Riddle Sideways: of metadata tagged accesses
Riddle Sideways: very messy
     No!!! not messy.  Perhaps accurate.  Perhaps the memory stays as datum and the hundreds of metadata built of each access has a differing quality byte that this access was incomplete, fautly, true, validated, full, in conflict, put on the todo re-validate stack, judged by exterior forces, etc. etc. etc.. A header file of ENUM types that you/yourself built up over time.
     I forget PaB, have I told you "I love you', lately.

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Alfred, I agree with your points . . . thus, need for "memory assessment" as to quality. . . and Riddle has been talking about how this might happen in a computer database.
Riddle Sideways: but seems to fit
Bruce Mowbray: Is this a sort of "fuzzy logic," Riddle?
     That may have been an attempt at humour, but might be more right in a grand way.
Riddle Sideways: were databases made in the memory's image
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh. . . (Were dream's made in the realtime experience's image?)
Riddle Sideways: yes, fuzzy
Bruce Mowbray: Althogh both fuzzy and potentially altered, I see memories as a sort of affirmation of the original experience itseolf.
Bruce Mowbray: itself*

Alfred Kelberry: validity is too broad of a concept. we need a specific context. e.g. in law enforcement, memory of a witness better be consistent and valid :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, excellent example....
Bruce Mowbray: So the "memory" of the surveillance camera might be trusted over the "memory" of the human witnesses.
Riddle Sideways: yes, if a witness is inconsistent
Riddle Sideways: thinking of the 23 minutes missing from the tape
Bruce Mowbray: Whole societies used to rely of stories -- narrative legends -- for their consistency of identity and values.
Bruce Mowbray: rely on*
Bruce Mowbray: narrative-centric tribes, for example.
Bruce Mowbray: so the re-telling of the legend was extremely important.
Riddle Sideways: passed from memory to memory
Bruce Mowbray ponders books as freezing memory. . .
Bruce Mowbray: yes, from memory to memory...
Riddle Sideways: until (almort) frozen into a book
Bruce Mowbray: Such passing along through generations is essential to the tribe's continuity ...
Alfred Kelberry: gladly, we don't have to do it anymore :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Bruce Mowbray: And here in PaB we have logs -- and the wiki -- to help us remember.
Bruce Mowbray: Alas, I need to go now.
Alfred Kelberry: is there a specific question of memory for this meeting?
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you Riddle, Boxy, and penguin.
Riddle Sideways: yet, remember telling the children all those stories
Alfred Kelberry: be well, bruce :)
Riddle Sideways: bye and thanks
                     --BELL-- 
Alfred Kelberry: 8 am already
Riddle Sideways: time flys :)
Riddle Sideways: what is the red ribbon channel, again?
Alfred Kelberry: storm didn't come again
Riddle Sideways: Storm is Thursday
Alfred Kelberry: non operational during the pause :)
Riddle Sideways: oh
Alfred Kelberry: he's usually here every morning
Alfred Kelberry: 12
Alfred Kelberry: eek
Riddle Sideways: lol
Alfred Kelberry: there
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: cold
Riddle Sideways: well, sorry need to go remember some things
Alfred Kelberry: think well :)
Riddle Sideways: and maybe make some new memories
Riddle Sideways: bye
Riddle Sideways: thank you
Riddle Sideways: btw, is the ground purple spring or fall
Alfred Kelberry: it's sandy marble :)
Riddle Sideways: did a Storm come and change the ground cover
Alfred Kelberry: no, same old
Alfred Kelberry: at least i think so
Riddle Sideways: memory... thought it was greener last time
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: which is the illusion
Alfred Kelberry: easy to restore: ask him :)
Riddle Sideways: no, better to ponder
Riddle Sideways: bye
Alfred Kelberry: ponder well :)