2012.06.11 19:00 - Wisdom Flying in Circles

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: how are you?
Pema Pera: I'm fine! Quite morning here. How about you?
Bleu Oleander: quiet evening here :)
Pema Pera: And what a wonderful outfit -- part modern art part native american?
Bleu Oleander: Frank Lloyd Wright
Pema Pera: !
Bleu Oleander: with a little liberties taken :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: I recently started to have a look at the book "Strangers to Ourselves"
Pema Pera: didn't you also mention that book at some point?
Bleu Oleander: oh yes
Bleu Oleander: read it a while ago
Pema Pera: many interesting ideas
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: I just started. What did you think of it?
Bleu Oleander: the adaptive unconscious ... if I remember correctly
Bleu Oleander: I like it a lot when I read it
Bleu Oleander: haven't looked at it in a while though
Pema Pera: the history of the study of the unconscious in Western academic studies is fascinating
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: it started so recently, only a hundred years or so ago
Pema Pera: with almost complete ignorance or disinterest of what other cultures had already found
Bleu Oleander: I think he also talks about constructing many narratives ... so no "true" self
Pema Pera: and then Freud and others went into all kind of speculative directions that were impossible to check
Pema Pera: giving that approach a bad name, for good reasons
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: and as a result behaviorism and such almost denied the unconscious
Pema Pera: but now the pendulum seems to be swinging back
--BELL--
Pema Pera: a new emphasis on embodiment and emotional aspects, besides the more analytical intellectual speculations of Freud et al, have made a large difference, together with neuroscience studies
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Pema Pera: so the challenge is now how to integrate it all . . . and whether there are meaningful ways to include in such an integration findings from other traditions
Pema Pera: difficult that . . . since the vocabulary and mindset and culture are so very different!
Bleu Oleander: I think that is the challenge
Pema Pera: do you see any way?
Bleu Oleander: I think it will take time
Pema Pera nods
Bleu Oleander: as we become a more global culture
Bleu Oleander: it may happen
Bleu Oleander: I can sense things changing now, can't you?
Pema Pera: oh yes, in many ways
Pema Pera: in academia too
Pema Pera: the people now in charge grew up in the sixties
Bleu Oleander: of course we never really know where the winds of change will take us
Pema Pera: ten years ago the most senior people came out of the fifties.
Bleu Oleander: right ... the 60's ... smiles
Pema Pera: a HUGE difference in degree of openness and willingness to experiment
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Pema Pera: I feel it very keenly
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Bleu Oleander: for later :)
Bleu Oleander: interesting theme for this new round of videos
Pema Pera: thanks!
Bleu Oleander: "seek wisdom"
Pema Pera: looking forward to seeing them.
Pema Pera: shall we echo the URLs here in the chatlog?
Bleu Oleander: I think I already mentioned them ... don't want to have too many shameless plugs :)
Pema Pera: oh, I think it's great to have them here, for readers of the log, who may not have access to other places.
Pema Pera: mind if I copy your note card?
Bleu Oleander: sure :)
Pema Pera: notecard from Bleu:

entries for MachinimUWA V: Seek Wisdom

Wisdom Flying in Circles: http://uwainsl.blogspot.com/2012/06/...rs-wisdom.html Something's Buggin' Me: http://uwainsl.blogspot.com/2012/06/...omethings.html  My youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BleuOleander?feature=mhee

Bleu Oleander: ty Pema :)
Bleu Oleander: so much to learn with all this technology
Pema Pera: looking forward to watching them!
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Pema Pera: yes, I'm very impressed with the way you have learned so quickly to master so much!
Bleu Oleander: still feel like a novice
Pema Pera smiles
Bleu Oleander: the PaBers are getting pretty good with the Art of Being projects
Pema Pera: yes, I was impressed, once again, when I strolled through the Dome last week
Bleu Oleander: was very impressed with everyone's participation
Bleu Oleander: the topic suggestion for this week is "transhumanism"
Bleu Oleander: some interesting ideas so far in the sessions
Pema Pera: I haven't had a chance to read about it yet.
Bleu Oleander: we've had several salons on it
--BELL--
Pema Pera: can you tell me about some ideas that came up?
Bleu Oleander: we had a few salons with Aubrey de Grey
Bleu Oleander: do you know his work?
Pema Pera: No, I'm afraid not
Bleu Oleander: brb
Bleu Oleander: sorry
Bleu Oleander: his book "ending aging"
Bleu Oleander: he's conducting research all over the world
Bleu Oleander: on ways to prevent dying from aging
Bleu Oleander: living longer healthier
Bleu Oleander: he's in London
Bleu Oleander: hi boxy
Pema Pera: hi Alfred!
Alfred Kelberry: omg!
Alfred Kelberry: wait...
Alfred Kelberry: this is...
Alfred Kelberry: pema!!! :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Pema Pera: and this is my session, yes, welcome! :-)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: yes, not my usual time
Pema Pera: Bleu is telling me about Aubrey de Grey
Alfred Kelberry: um, sounds familiar
Bleu Oleander: his research brings him to Arizona
Bleu Oleander: so we've had some interesting salons!
Alfred Kelberry: ah, a proponent of eternal life
Bleu Oleander: a great new book "Immortality" by S. Cave
Alfred Kelberry: what's important about arizona to him? apart from you living there :)
Bleu Oleander: ideas on living forever and how that drives civilizations
Alfred Kelberry: um, how's arizona special in this regard?
Alfred Kelberry: or he's doing a tour?
Bleu Oleander: not special, just some people he's working with here
Bleu Oleander: working with several universities
Alfred Kelberry: ah, ok
Alfred Kelberry: thought maybe the local laws are somehow more preferable
Bleu Oleander: laws?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, like cloning is not allowed in many states
Bleu Oleander: what do you thing about the quest for immortality?
Alfred Kelberry: given he's doing age research, he may poke at genes, etc, which is a sensitive topic for a lot of people
Alfred Kelberry: i'm all for it :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to see a working ai prototype :)
Pema Pera: aren't many people working on that kind of medical research?
Alfred Kelberry: which, i'm afraid, will not happen in my life time
Bleu Oleander: yes
Alfred Kelberry: i think any genes related research is hindered by various pro-religion groups, which harms the development
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: Cave offers an interesting conclusion in his book
Bleu Oleander: he calls for three virtues
Alfred Kelberry: http://goo.gl/kxc6A - he looks like an orthodox pope with this beard :)
Bleu Oleander: identifying with others
Bleu Oleander: focusing on the present
Alfred Kelberry: cave? not nick, i presume? :)
Bleu Oleander: and developing a grateful attitude
Pema Pera: very sane advice!
Alfred Kelberry: good virtues
Alfred Kelberry: but who is this cave?
Bleu Oleander: too much emphasis on self leads to fear of death
Bleu Oleander: Stephen Cave
Bleu Oleander: his book "Immortality"
Alfred Kelberry: ah, you mentioned it
Bleu Oleander: yes
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i successfully skipped the author's name :)
Alfred Kelberry: pema, would you like to live 200 years or more? :)
Bleu Oleander: as we talked about earlier, perhaps ideas like his are part of this change?
Alfred Kelberry: i think this is the current proposed life span to be achieved
Alfred Kelberry: bleu, this change?
Bleu Oleander: we were speaking about a more global culture
Pema Pera: hmmm, it all depends . . .
Pema Pera: living longer is fine if you stay more or less healthy
Alfred Kelberry: bleu, i don't see how these 3 virtues are being cultivated in the current global society
Pema Pera: and if you stay more or less human :-)
Alfred Kelberry: quite otherwise, if you ask me
Bleu Oleander: more or less human?
Bleu Oleander: that leads us back to transhumanism :)
Alfred Kelberry: pema, yes... the healthy and looks part. it's important :)
Alfred Kelberry: as in quality of life > quantity?
Bleu Oleander: for me, yes
Alfred Kelberry: we want both, but there's life to balance it out :)
Bleu Oleander: would not want to prolong life just to prolong it
Pema Pera: the main question is not whether we like it to happen; it will happen, and the question is how to deal with it
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: and it will come from mainstream medicine, I think, just being pushed further and further
Pema Pera: I'm not sure what the role is of a special movement
Pema Pera: or perhaps I've been missing something?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, societal consequences will be immense. imagine seniority and pension calculation in a 200 years life span.
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Alfred Kelberry: "i have 80 years of experience in this field" :)
Pema Pera: already the changes have been immense, of the doubling of life expectancy in the last century o rso
Bleu Oleander: conceptions of time would change
Bleu Oleander: already people are working well into their 80's
Pema Pera: yes, boxy, with older people telling you "just come back in another century, and I'll consider your idea again" :)
Bleu Oleander: don't hear the word "retirement" too much these days
Pema Pera: In Japan there is a term for "wisdom tooth": "the tooth that your parents won't live to see"
Pema Pera: not true anymore :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: well, time for me for lunch. Good seeing you both!
Bleu Oleander: have to take the pups out ... nice to see you both :)
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: bfn
Alfred Kelberry: lunch well
Bleu Oleander: bfn
Pema Pera: thanks!