The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

Breakfast chat with Alf :

Alfred Kelberry: hi! :)
Alfred Kelberry: is it your meeting?
Zen Arado: Hi Boxy ;)
Zen Arado: yep
Alfred Kelberry: ok, i'm the first guest then :)
Alfred Kelberry: how are things with you today?
Zen Arado: sure are :)
Zen Arado: fine thank you

Alfred Kelberry: i'm having a strawberry cream oatmeal
Zen Arado: how you?
Alfred Kelberry: yum
Zen Arado: I had porridge this morning
Zen Arado: is that the same thing?
Alfred Kelberry: um... i think so
Zen Arado: I have it with cream
Alfred Kelberry: oatmeal british style :)
Zen Arado: milk and cream and flax seed and cinnamon and a banana
Alfred Kelberry: oh my, fancy you :)
Zen Arado: I'm on a low carb diet so I cut down on cereals
Zen Arado: I usually have bacon and eggs for breakfast
Alfred Kelberry: ha :)
Zen Arado: I only have porridge two mornings per week
Zen Arado: restart
Alfred Kelberry: i'll go with sausage and eggs :)
Zen Arado: we better head over to Kira
Alfred Kelberry: why?
Zen Arado: the region is going to restart
Alfred Kelberry: ah! missed that
Zen Arado: I just got the message
Alfred Kelberry: ok
djoooo Cioc: hi
Eliza Madrigal: Hello djoooo
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, we are having a retart...
djoooo Cioc: how is your life here?
Eliza Madrigal: do you know where kira cafe is?
Eliza Madrigal: I can teleport you there for the session, one moment
djoooo Cioc: no im sorry
djoooo Cioc: ok

We went to Kira because of a restart and didn't manage to get back to pavilion, chat about internet privacy:

Zen (zen.arado): I walked over for the exercise :-)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): heh
boxy (alfred.kelberry): i ran a bit :)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): i see eliza at the circle
Almond Andel: ooops,　made a mistake! Hi Zen, Hi Alfred
Zen (zen.arado): she knows where to come :-)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Almond :)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): almond! :)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): what a lovely surprise :)
Almond Andel: got to go to team meeting!
Almond Andel: See you!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi ALmond, Boxy, Zen
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza :)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): oh yes, the kira meeting. i should go too.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
boxy (alfred.kelberry): lovely hear, btw, eliza :)
Zen (zen.arado): is it in here?
boxy's nose: Eliza clicks boxy's nose
boxy's nose: Eliza licks boxy's nose
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks Boxy :)
boxy (alfred.kelberry): zen, no. some other place. will have to find out.
boxy (alfred.kelberry): i'm on the board
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the meeting is taking place in the beach house now....
Zen (zen.arado): we only came here because there is a restart at the PAB rebellion
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Kenny
djoooo Cioc: hi zen
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi again djooo
boxy's nose: Eliza licks boxy's nose
djoooo Cioc: do u know the brand zen ?
Kenny Frequency: hi Eliza :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): welcome to you both
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Djoo
Zen (zen.arado): what brand Djoo?
djoooo Cioc: zen its a clothes brand
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Ken
Zen (zen.arado): now I didn't know that
Zen (zen.arado): the word Zen is used for a a lot of things
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
djoooo Cioc: its chinease
Zen (zen.arado): Japanese
Zen (zen.arado): it actually means meditation in Japanese as far as I know
boxy (alfred.kelberry): chinese originally :)
djoooo Cioc: zen that mean relax
Zen (zen.arado): yes it comes from Chan
Zen (zen.arado): which was the Chinese word
djoooo Cioc: are u from china ?
Zen (zen.arado): which in turn came from Dyana in India
boxy (alfred.kelberry): any news to share this morning, eliza? all good in miami? :)
Zen (zen.arado): no, I live in Ireland
Zen (zen.arado): :)
djoooo Cioc: cool
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) hm.. news...
Zen (zen.arado): have you attended any PAB meetings before Djoo?
djoooo Cioc: no zen
Zen (zen.arado): it's just that we post the conversation on a wiki and we need your permission
djoooo Cioc: i m new
boxy (alfred.kelberry): eliza, i imagine you start a day with coffee and morning news :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
djoooo Cioc: )
Zen (zen.arado): do you have any objection to having your conversation posted Djoo?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I started this day with posting of sessions and coffee ... not much in the way of news yet
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): have any for me?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well, after taking my son to school
boxy (alfred.kelberry): eliza, good start :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I did enjoy a Sam Harris video Zen posted yesterday, but that was at around 4 am
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
djoooo Cioc: zen and eliza do you know each other for a long time ??
boxy (alfred.kelberry): eliza, here's one: gmail has started to warn people if they suspect a state-sponsored attack on their account
Zen (zen.arado): yes we do
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): almost as long as I've been in SL djooo
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what would it mean to have a state-sponsored attack on one's account?
boxy (alfred.kelberry): i think it came from the state backed viruses like stuxnet and flame that made a lot of stir lately
Second Life: James (peacefuljames) is offline.
djoooo Cioc: i mad some freinds in 2009 but now i lost them cause they dont connect any more
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): djooo, you've been in SL for a long time... oh, sorry to hear
Zen (zen.arado): that happens quite often unfortunately
djoooo Cioc: yes before i was addictive to sl $
boxy (alfred.kelberry): eliza, maybe if you're a syrian activist and the govt wants to peek into your correspondence :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I see...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and google is trying to be proactive then?
djoooo Cioc: i cut off for 2 or 3 years
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): or in saying this are they perhaps getting people to look for themselves
boxy (alfred.kelberry): i don't think you'll get a warning if the cia decides to do the same :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): just the phrase "state-sponsored virus" is creepy
boxy (alfred.kelberry): more of a marketing stunt really
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): djooo... now you feel a bit more balanced about SL time ?
Zen (zen.arado): I get more and more uneasy about the amount they know about me
Zen (zen.arado): everything we post on the Internet stays there apparently
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): memory :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): internet karma
djoooo Cioc: can i have a cafee plz
boxy (alfred.kelberry): zen, quit using google/facebook :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think I may stop facebook actually
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): think about that more and more
boxy (alfred.kelberry): yay!
Zen (zen.arado): but what will I do without them?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but I like the layers of communication
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and pictures
boxy (alfred.kelberry): eliza, you're my hero :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): especially with family
Zen (zen.arado): I stopped twitter anyway
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): (lines all out of sync, zen if it is okay I will fix them when lot is posted)
djoooo Cioc: zen do you work in real life ?
boxy (alfred.kelberry): yes, it's used predominantly as a picture sharing platform these days
Zen (zen.arado): I am retired now
djoooo Cioc: ow
boxy (alfred.kelberry): no wonder they bought instagram and released facebook camera
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I am closer to my sister's day to day life now than pre-facebook but I could be more proactive
Zen (zen.arado): though I still paint and sale paintings
boxy (alfred.kelberry): zen :)
djoooo Cioc: nice work zen ;)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maybe I'll focus on twitter more, and share pictures by temporary linking
Zen (zen.arado): you didn't tell me if you are happy with your conversation is being recorded yet Djoo?
Zen (zen.arado): sorry to go on about it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): but if you don't give me permission I have to go through the whole log and remove your name
djoooo Cioc: did i disturbe you
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not at all, it is just part of the regular protocol for visitors
djoooo Cioc: i don't undrestand
Zen (zen.arado): it's just that the conversations are recorded on a wiki
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): we record sessions and place them on a public wiki at playasbeing.org
boxy (alfred.kelberry): folks, i'm off to the kira meeting
boxy (alfred.kelberry): be good
Zen (zen.arado): I sent you a note card telling you about it
boxy (alfred.kelberry): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): bye Alfred, have fun
Zen (zen.arado): bye Alf :)
djoooo Cioc: ah ok
Zen (zen.arado): that's great thanks
Zen (zen.arado): we only come here because the PAB pavilion has gone off-line
Zen (zen.arado): we will go back there shortly hopefully
djoooo Cioc: is it you who build this place
djoooo Cioc: ?
Zen (zen.arado): no, a guy called Storm Nordwind built most of the stuff around here

Sam Harris video at Atheist conference:

Zen (zen.arado): yes that was an interesting video Eliza
Zen (zen.arado): it amazed me the way he made them do a meditation halfway through
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): connected so well... I made a few comments about it on today's 99 days...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Classes_and_Sessions/The_99_Days_project/99.003_-_2012.04.10/2012.06.07___57
Zen (zen.arado): yes, he seems to have a philosophy and neuroscience background
Zen (zen.arado): but he said he had done retreats
Zen (zen.arado): I've never read any of his books
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): right, he's always sort of complimented the aspirations of Jains, for instance
Zen (zen.arado): how do you mean
Zen (zen.arado): ?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and I appreciated his seeing atheism as a kind of space maker because a lot of the time these speakers just seem to be making another sort of belief system in reaction to an old one
Zen (zen.arado): he likes the ideas? D
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well he likes 'do no harm'
Zen (zen.arado): I see
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so sees value in those parts of religious practice I guess, which center around non-violence
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but doesn't think they need to be called religious practice :)
Zen (zen.arado): I'm always a bit uneasy about atheism
Zen (zen.arado): I always wonder what God it is they don't believe in :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I do... I think one needs to give acknowledgement to traditions and people's inspirations over time
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol Zen, yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is like going into an art museum and pulling things out of context and sure... there is some value to that...
Zen (zen.arado): they have to make a definition of something before they can tear it apart
Zen (zen.arado): seems to me they make a kind of strawman God
Zen (zen.arado): Dawkins usually attacks fundamentalist Christians
Zen (zen.arado): an easy target
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and create the same sort of 'club'
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): 'we' the non-fools
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I loved reading and listening to Hitchens though...
Zen (zen.arado): yes, he died recently
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): brilliant and eloquent... and yet much I felt he wasn't quite open to hearing/evaluating
Zen (zen.arado): I have never read him either
Zen (zen.arado): sometimes atheists can be just as narrow as theists
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Oh, because of searching out his articles I found a great article site called arts and letters daily...
Zen (zen.arado): I'd like the link to that
Zen (zen.arado): if you can find some time
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): www.aldaily.com
Zen (zen.arado): thanks
Zen (zen.arado): I notice that Harris has written a book about free will
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I want to look up the talk he referenced
Zen (zen.arado): everything I have read lately seems to point to the fact that we don't have any :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hehe... which he alluded to also in that video
Zen (zen.arado): yes :-)
Zen (zen.arado): it came up in that book I read called "The Ego trick'
Zen (zen.arado): Susan Blackmore thinks we don't have any free will either
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what is tricky for me is that I think from an external view I am a 'religious' person... I really appreciate traditions and ritual, as long as it is not mandatory for anyone :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, not familiar with her
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): she wrote this book?
Zen (zen.arado): she is a psychologist, neuroscientist and also a Zen practitioner
Zen (zen.arado): no the book is by Julian Baggini
Zen (zen.arado): he doesn't believe in free will either
Zen (zen.arado): I find some pieces about memory in his book
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps I should paste some in in case someone finds them interesting or useful
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well, yesterday I looked at my plans for the day at the beginning of the day, and what actually happened... and, the course of the day would suggest little free will, though there were some constants
Zen (zen.arado): it's all in the way you think about it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sure, you come across many interesting references Zen
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how can we have free will in a world of other people anyway?
Zen (zen.arado): actually there was a lot about memory in 'Incognito' as well
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): 'circumstances' 'situations' 'events'
Zen (zen.arado): I think the idea of free will comes along with the idea of a self
Second Life: Xirana (xirana.oximoxi) is online.
Zen (zen.arado): a self which makes choices
Zen (zen.arado): once you give that up it's easy to see that we are just a part of everything else
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): then what? haha...
Zen (zen.arado): we make decisions but they are the outworking of everything that is happening
Zen (zen.arado): of everything that has happened to us
Zen (zen.arado): all of our abilities and conditioning etc
Zen (zen.arado): it doesn't look like we'll get back to the pavilion today
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): outcastes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): *casts
Zen (zen.arado): :)

Some memory quotes:

Zen (zen.arado): I'll post something about memory anyway:
Zen (zen.arado): 'Memory is extremely unreliable. In one now famous experiment, the psychologist Elizabeth Loftus was able to make up to a third of experiment subjects believe that they had met Bugs Bunny at Disneyland just by showing them a fake advert of a child hugging the rabbit at the theme park with the headline ˜Remember the magic?™ Such a memory had to be false, because Bugs Bunny is a Warner Brothers, not a Disney, character. Experiments like this show that the brain is not like a tape recorder. ˜Memories don't just fade," as the old saying would have us believe; they also grow, wrote Loftus et al. ˜Every time we recall an event, we must reconstruct the memory, and with every recollection the memory may be changed." Truth and reality, when seen through the filter of our memories, are not objective facts but subjective, interpretive realities.'
 
 Baggini, Julian (2011-01-01). The Ego Trick (p. 48). Granta. Kindle Edition.

Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes... thank you zen, this is part of what I was trying to get at too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Wol had interesting comments in Eos's session last night
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Xiri!
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi Eliza, Zen! :-)...I am very late:)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Xirana :)
Zen (zen.arado): it's a long restart today
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): the Pavilion is there again:)
Zen (zen.arado): I don't see it when I cam over
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is on the map
Zen (zen.arado): that's weird
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): interesting note Zen! I must put myself up to date about the subject...that's why I wanted to come even if just for a short time, it's an interesting one for me! :)
Zen (zen.arado): do you want to go there?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it IS interesting... have seen a few angles crop up that I hope people follow into a bit
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): here is Wol's from last night:
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Wol Euler: experience is usually multivalent, involving many senses
 stevenaia Michinaga: + time
 Eos Amaterasu: and motor tensions
 Wol Euler: I can enjoy the aftertaste of hot chocolage i my mouth as I hear the humming of the laptop fan as I write this
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Wol Euler: but when I remember the taste of Beef Wellington I probably don't remember the feeling of the leather chair under my legs
 Wol Euler: or whether my shoes pinched that day
 Eos Amaterasu: the present tense experience
 Eos Amaterasu: not a memory?
 Wol Euler: not part of htat memory, though they would have been part of the experience (insofar as they existed at that time)
Zen (zen.arado): yes sensations are very memorable
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I like this idea... of memories 'growing'
Zen (zen.arado): but I'm not sure they are very accurate any more
Zen (zen.arado): we are not accurate recorders either
Zen (zen.arado): we only have such a narrow viewpoint
Second Life: Riddle Sideways is online.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): that's also a fact when reading memories of some writers...
Zen (zen.arado): they are totally biased even at the time they happen
Zen (zen.arado): and then we edit them each time we remember :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): well..in this case, probably they also manipulate it to create an image of themselves
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes, to fit with the central story
Zen (zen.arado): we take out the bad bits :-)
Zen (zen.arado): remember the bits that show us in a good light
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): as we are always changing... when we think of the past we value our souvenirs with different eyes too
Second Life: The camera cannot focus user Riddle Sideways because they are outside your draw distance.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): souvenirs...is it a part of our memory?...do you understand it like this?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is sometimes hard to look back on old home movies ... like me I look at all the 'stuff' I thought it was important for my kids to have
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh, yes Xiri... we infuse things with meaning
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sentiment
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I don't keep many things like that of my own life, but I have lots for the kids'... pictures...
Zen (zen.arado): memorabilia
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so they'll make their own choices about that, yes
Second Life: Pip Torok is offline.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi Rid! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Riddle
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): do you keep souvenirs Xiri?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Riddle
Riddle Sideways: Hi All
Second Life: Astrid (aislay) is offline.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): well... I am mot fond of 'material' souvenirs.... but, I guess I have some....for exemple, I like to collect small stones of places I go.... and when I see them I remember the place
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): but after a while I forget where it was collected... :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nice :)... seems a simple kind of ritual
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I don't do it always... now, just if I see some nice 'small' stone that takes my attention

Zen (zen.arado): 'Consider memory. Nature seems to have invented mechanisms for storing memory more than once. For instance, under normal circumstances, your memories of daily events are consolidated (that is, 'cemented in') by an area of the brain called the hippocampus. But during frightening situations such as a car accident or a robbery, another area, the amygdala, also lays down memories along an independent, secondary memory track. Amygdala memories have a different quality to them: they are difficult to erase and they can pop back up in 'flashbulb fashion' as commonly described by rape victims and war veterans. In other words, there is more than one way to lay down memory. We are not talking about a memory of different events, but multiple memories of the same event as though two journalists with different personalities were jotting down notes about a single unfolding story. So we see that different factions in the brain can get involved in the same task. In the end, it is likely that there are even more than two factions involved, all writing down information and later competing to tell the story. The conviction that memory is one thing is an illusion.'
 
 Eagleman, David (2011-04-07). Incognito: The Secret Lives of The Brain (p. 126). Canongate Books. Kindle Edition.

Eliza (eliza.madrigal): fascinating Zen
Zen (zen.arado): I found that interesting that there are different ways of laying down memories
Zen (zen.arado): that's like the kind of events you see in films where everything suddenly goes into slow motion :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): our brains are working at a higher workrate or something
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): i guess ritual is a community or culture's way of memory channel... of keeping open the insight received by one time, for another
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): continuity
Zen (zen.arado): yes we saw a lot of that this weekend with the Queen
Zen (zen.arado): it's like people have a lot of fond memories associated with her and the traditions of royalty
Zen (zen.arado): it makes me realise how little reality there is in what we think
Zen (zen.arado): how little logical reason
Riddle Sideways: Zen, there was an article on how those Amygdala memories can be eased or erased
Zen (zen.arado): was there Riddle?
Zen (zen.arado): interesting
Riddle Sideways: hmmmm, need to find
Zen (zen.arado): they give war veterans a lot of trouble don't they?
Riddle Sideways: think it started with a Wired mag. article on a forget pill
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and it is somehow associated with area 25, isn't it... so perhaps having something to do with serious depression...
Riddle Sideways: that led to many online articles
Zen (zen.arado): it sounds dangerous deleting memories
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): eternal sunshine...?
Zen (zen.arado): mind manipulation
Zen (zen.arado): I never even liked the idea of SRI's
Zen (zen.arado): Prozac etc
Riddle Sideways: should only be done by governments :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): neurofeedback is kind of interesting... not intense...
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... how can be known if you deleter also some important memories...not only the painfull ones..
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): maybe scientist know...I had no idea
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and then I guess the brain would have to 'walk around' the deleted part.. then that creates disturbance too?
Zen (zen.arado): but then again we are constantly manipulating our own memories
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Inception...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): ha yes
Second Life: Jadyn Firehawk is online.
Zen (zen.arado): forgot about that :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): also, can you delete the pain and keep the 'lesson'?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :::head spins:::
Zen (zen.arado): last quote:

Zen (zen.arado): 'Here's another aspect to consider about memory and the ceaseless reinvention hypothesis: neuroscientists do not think of memory as one phenomenon but, instead, as a collection of many different subtypes. On the broadest scale, there is short-term and long-term memory. Short-term involves remembering a phone number long enough to dial it. Within the long-term category there is declarative memory (for example, what you ate for breakfast and what year you got married) and non-declarative memory (how to ride a bicycle); for an overview, see Eagleman and Montague, 'Models of learning.' These divisions have been introduced because patients can sometimes damage one subtype without damaging others, an observation that has led neuroscientists into a hope of categorizing memory into several silos. But it is likely that the final picture of memory won't divide so neatly into natural categories; instead, as per the theme of this chapter, different memory mechanisms will overlap in their domains. ..Any circuit that contributes to memory, even a bit, will be strengthened and can make its contribution. If true, this will go some distance toward explaining an enduring mystery to young residents entering the neurology clinic: why do real patient cases only rarely match the textbook case descriptions? Textbooks assume neat categorization, while real brains ceaselessly reinvent overlapping strategies. As a result, real brains are robust, and they are also resistant to humancentric labeling.'
 
 Eagleman, David (2011-04-07). Incognito: The Secret Lives of The Brain (p. 243). Canongate Books. Kindle Edition.

Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Textbooks assume neat categorization, while real brains ceaselessly reinvent overlapping strategies. As a result, real brains are robust, and they are also resistant to humancentric labeling.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nice
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): the brain is very plastic
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so maybe 'free will' in the way we tend to think of it is a bit like this forceful categorizing
Zen (zen.arado): everything in life is very changing and plastic
Zen (zen.arado): comes back to my nondualist teachings
Zen (zen.arado): yes Eliza
Zen (zen.arado): 'free will' is just a category dreamed up by philosophers
Riddle Sideways: is this chat going to be in the wiki?
Zen (zen.arado): yes Riddle
Zen (zen.arado): it better be in my chat log :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Riddle Sideways: ok, because it is so interesting, but missed much of it
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I can not proecess all the information quickly:)
Zen (zen.arado): I kept camming over but the pavilion wasn't there
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I find it also interesting and must read again
Riddle Sideways: need to go, thanks
Zen (zen.arado): in fact I still don't see it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nor I Xiri... I feel like it 'seems' I do quickly sometimes but I go over things billions of times
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye Ridf! have a nice day!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and integration doesn't come deliberately
Zen (zen.arado): byeeRiddle
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Bye Riddle :) nice to see you
Second Life: Riddle Sideways is offline.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): everything changes faster than we can "aha" :)
Zen (zen.arado): I seem to be getting interested in consciousness
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes! :))
Zen (zen.arado): everything seems to be pointing me in that direction lately
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nice to be an artist I guess :)
Zen (zen.arado): it's funny how books seem to steer me to other books
Zen (zen.arado): does that happen to you guys?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maybe a natural trajectory Zen... harris touched on phenomenology in that talk for instance
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): without saying so
Zen (zen.arado): Yes
Zen (zen.arado): I'm trying to read up about transhumanism also
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): overlappings.. I feel like there is a basic something many people have intuition of and are trying to articulate
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes Zen...usually when I read a book if they refer to other authors I am also curious about...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): endless :)
Zen (zen.arado): it's almost as if someone is steering me :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :_)
Zen (zen.arado): but it is just my interests and inclinations
Zen (zen.arado): better that than trying to dig myself into one way of thinking and keeping justifying it
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... it only happens if you are interested in the subject
Zen (zen.arado): and one subject lead you into another
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes! :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): categories defying themselves
Zen (zen.arado): denying themselves
Zen (zen.arado): undefining themselves
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): prying themselves... open...
Zen (zen.arado): unfolding themselves
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): beholding themselves
Zen (zen.arado): spreading themselves out
Zen (zen.arado): merging with others
Zen (zen.arado): and disappearing :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ...I am looking for a ....'themselves' too:))
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) tada
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): aha! ..desapearing:)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me giggles
Zen (zen.arado): losing their 'them self '
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): speaking of which... time to go...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lose myself into the day...
Zen (zen.arado): yes, better go and try to edit this
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) good luck with that
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks Zen
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sorry wed seems more work for you
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... I also will go now, thanks for this interesting quotes...I have a 'strong' way to start to think about 'memories' :))
Zen (zen.arado): I seem to have had a a lot of pressure today with IM's as well
Zen (zen.arado): ah well
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I should give up 'the idea of' going to yoga on wed and switch again, but I'm not yet ready
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Bye Xiri, always great to see you
Zen (zen.arado): yes thanks to both of you for coming
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye... nice day to both! :)
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me wave warmly
Zen (zen.arado): byee
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)