2013.02.15 01:00 - 4am PaB is like truth serum

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: good morning, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Morning, Wol
Wol Euler: this is very early for you
Eliza Madrigal nods... had something sugary before bed so woke with a bit of anxiety
Wol Euler: :(
Wol Euler: there's no escaping the biochemistry, is there?
Eliza Madrigal: its okay - I just realize that I need to address some habits I've picked up
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: in general food has been tasting great the last several months, which means I've been cooking a lot, but also gaining all sorts of weight and being indulgent :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: how are you?
Wol Euler ponders.
Wol Euler: mostly well, I guess
Wol Euler: still in a great mess with work, meaning nowhere near enough of it
Wol Euler: and the financial consequences of that
Eliza Madrigal: lights in tunnels?
Wol Euler: not yet
Eliza Madrigal: is your work seasonal at all?
Wol Euler: only the candle that we carry with us
Wol Euler: not really, no
Wol Euler: it has its tides, but they are on longer cycles, several years long
Wol Euler: as the general economy waxes and wanes
Wol Euler: even a small house is a long project, eighteen months at the best
Eliza Madrigal: interesting but not easy... feast and famine
Wol Euler: yes
Wol Euler: very much so
Wol Euler: that is the curse of the profession, you find yourself with a huge office and no way to feed them all
Wol Euler: if you work at making widgets, you can assume a certain more or less constant baseline of sales
Wol Euler: to keep the fires burning
Wol Euler: there will be peaks and troughs of course, but it's rare that anything simply stops being bought
Eliza Madrigal: I can see how one might be drawn to the unpredictability actually... the exhilaration of not knowing
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: it's there, yes
Wol Euler: dancing on the rim of the volcano's crater
Wol Euler: from my point of view, it's overrated :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah, indeed
Eliza Madrigal: yet maybe one fears not being creative without that kind of impetus sometimes... or, something
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: in the way that many people in all professions will leave something until the last minute before starting it
Wol Euler: or school kids
Wol Euler: that isn't just "hoping that it will go away"
Eliza Madrigal: no doubt there is a way to lean into that which seems to work for a long time
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but when it doesn't anymore, then I guess time to learn new ways
Wol Euler: exactly
Wol Euler: when it stops working, you have a problem -- if you have associated creativity with pressure in your mind
Wol Euler: if the pressure's still there but the creativity fails, then you have no tool or trigger left to kickstart it with
Eliza Madrigal: relate to that very much
Wol Euler: which is where we get to the Nike motto "just do it" :) among other things
Wol Euler: I worked out a way of doing this for myself, of sneaking around behind the back of my fear of not being able to be creative
Wol Euler: (I hate that word, by the way, I find it incredibly self-indulgent and patronizing)
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose there is a parallel to the sugar, which one can manage the ups and downs of fine for a while then body says Hm...nope :)
Wol Euler: yep
Eliza Madrigal: the word creative?
Wol Euler: yes
Eliza Madrigal: please say more
Wol Euler: it may be a language thing, I don't think I felt this in England, or not so strongly
Wol Euler: Germans who are architects or designers will often call themselves "creatives"
Wol Euler: like when you ask them what they do for a living, that is what they answer
Eliza Madrigal: fascinating
Wol Euler: with a long rolled R usually, crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreative
Wol Euler: I came be so annoyed by whatt I perceived as arrogance in the statement
Eliza Madrigal: do you think the idea of creativity and danger are entangled together a bit?
Wol Euler: oh yes, I am sure that they are
Wol Euler: people talk about risky projects, about dangerous decisions
Wol Euler: i.e. whether to use 17,5 cm or 24 cm thick bricks
Wol Euler: self-dramatizing :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) flair too far

--BELL--

Wol Euler: this is related to why so many writers and artists become alcoholics
Wol Euler: thinkiing they need stress to produce their best work, and taking a little helper to deal with the self-imposed stress
Wol Euler: and then mistaking the helper for the muse
Eliza Madrigal: easily done
Wol Euler: stress can be as addictive as any other stimulant
Eliza Madrigal: both stress and its antidote mistaken for muse
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: so the fear/avoidance is in the middle somewhere
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: there is another aspect, I see, which is that by leaving things undone they are taken out of one's hands
Wol Euler: this is a way of becoming the victim of circumstances
Wol Euler: (poking myself with sharply pointed sticks)
Eliza Madrigal: lol... and getting me while you're at it... ouch
Wol Euler: ah, sorry :)
Eliza Madrigal: joking (just a little)
Wol Euler: I feared as I said it that you might see it that way
Eliza Madrigal: well there are fine lines between leaning into the unknown or waiting for openings, and avoidance for sure
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: what I have been not-doing is pure avoidance
Wol Euler: mixed with a little rabbit-in-the-headlights frozenness
Eliza Madrigal: in some session the charnel ground notion came up - why practitioners would go to a place that might provoke repulsion to meditate/comtemplate
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Eliza Madrigal: it comes up with siddha stories, Tibetan and Indian
Wol Euler: huh
Eliza Madrigal: so the idea is it is very difficult to stay in the presence of what one is rightly conditioned to avoid
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: yet that's sort of what comes up with sitting if one stays a while
Eliza Madrigal: along with capacity to not be as daunted I guess
Eliza Madrigal: but of course I'm half asleep so I apologize if not making sense :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: no worries
Wol Euler: it sounds a little ambiguous, actually
Wol Euler: I can imagine that as a tremendously macho thing
Wol Euler: "look at me sitting among the corpses, hah, you can't do this"
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal: women did this too actually
Wol Euler: women can be macho too :)
Eliza Madrigal: true :)
Eliza Madrigal: I guess being a person who has walked wide circles around difficult things for the sake of hm, even down to sheer manners, it inspires me somehow
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I'm looking for my macho, hahah
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: and perhaps my thoughts are coloured by a residue of annoyance at the crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreatives
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: it surprises me this, actually... because normally in the US "I'm a creative" would be seen as "I don't have a legitimate job like architect"
Wol Euler: indeed :)
Wol Euler: funny, that
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: I shall remember that and use it next time I meet one of them
Wol Euler: "oh, you poor thing, how long have you been unemployed?"
Eliza Madrigal giggles - that's awful
Wol Euler giggles.

--BELL--

Wol Euler: yes, you're right, it is just as much of a put-down as I innerly accuse them of handing the rest of us
Eliza Madrigal: it is interesting to consider that a lot of people seem happiest if they have a kind of deeper work that their external work feeds
Wol Euler: say more?
Eliza Madrigal: well so an actor may do commercials so that they can support small indie films, or a contemplative who keeps a day job that is very simple
Wol Euler: oh, I see
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure it has been like that in your work at times, where you do some kinds of work because there is the other that will come?
Wol Euler: yes, true
Wol Euler: (chat lag)
Wol Euler: actually no, off the top of my head I can't think of any case where we took a job thinking it was a bad-but-necessary one
Wol Euler: perhaps we were just lucky
Wol Euler: and also, part of this being not-a-crrrrrrrrrrrrreative is that we don't take ourselves that seriously
Wol Euler: we just do buildings, you know?
Wol Euler: it's not great art
Wol Euler: we do little ones with as much care as the big ones
Eliza Madrigal: wow, and I can't help notice the 'we" in the way you see everything - satisfaction there too
Wol Euler: yes, I'm very lucky in my work situation
Wol Euler ponders
Eliza Madrigal: me too
Wol Euler: how is your work going? are you still writing and interviewing for Kiremimi?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... really enjoyable
Eliza Madrigal: I am just starting to do more interviews again which I love
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: with everyone I talk to there is just so much there... it astounds me
Eliza Madrigal: opens and opens and opens
Eliza Madrigal: yesterday actually I talked with someone I knew very little beforehand and it stretched on, then we made follow up plans
Wol Euler grins.
Eliza Madrigal: felt after more than an hour we'd hardly said hello :)
Wol Euler: awww, nice
Wol Euler: I'm glad you have found this great job
Eliza Madrigal: It has been a tremendous blessing
Eliza Madrigal: I'm also looking at other things too... trying to decide whether to go back to school
Wol Euler beams.
Eliza Madrigal: we're selling the house now
Wol Euler: great!
Wol Euler: well, I hope it's great
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: I've wanted this for a long time but now I'm kind of scared
Wol Euler: I can imagine that it feels like Spring arriving, after so long immobile
Wol Euler: when the ice breaks on the rivers and starts to flow again
Wol Euler: heheheh, which is an image that probably means close to nothing to a Floridan! heheheheh
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: there is a lot I like about what we've done with the house, and now I feel so hyper aware of it all
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler ponders the implications of that act.
Eliza Madrigal: I notice all the little things so strongly... remembering weeks choosing just the right tile for the kitchen, or oldest daughter and I scraping popcorn off the ceilings one summer
Wol Euler laughs.
Wol Euler: I won't ask
Eliza Madrigal: when we bought it, it was horrible.... 80s Miami Vice like structure
Eliza Madrigal: and had been left to seed a long time
Eliza Madrigal: so we worked really hard ... was like a fourth child
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but that's attaching sentimentality
Wol Euler frowns
Eliza Madrigal: still, not so simple to go
Wol Euler: I think there are times and places where a little sentimentality is warranted

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: and there is an unfinished feeling to leaving, which I have to work with... not avoid and just allow
Wol Euler: perhaps this is the finish, though?
Wol Euler: or: can you say what you feel remains undone?
Eliza Madrigal: that's complex - on the surface level there are "improvements" that were always envisioned and never gotten to...
Eliza Madrigal: deeper down there is the idea of two people working together on something, materializing
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler takes your hand.
Eliza Madrigal: and deeper down there is all the childhood stuff of "when I grow up I'll do everything differently"
Wol Euler: architects know of a phenomenon where a couple starts working on their house when their relationship begins to need working on
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: quite common
Wol Euler: as a distraction, or as a way to come back together in a common project
Eliza Madrigal: I think in some ways I need to be able to talk about this process while going through it, and the house is quite a useful symbol for that
Wol Euler nods.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: thanks Wol, off to work?
Wol Euler: not for an hour or two, after lunch
Wol Euler: but this afternoon, yes
Eliza Madrigal: so how was the festival?
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Wol Euler: fun!
Wol Euler: it was really cold but bright sunshine, so that was okay
Wol Euler: the parade was great fun, the kids loved it
Wol Euler: everyone sang
Wol Euler: everyone got pretzels and sausages and incredible amounts of candy
Wol Euler: I'm going to put up some photos on facebook
Eliza Madrigal: fun to go with kids, because you can play at their high level :)
Wol Euler: absolutely
Wol Euler: they give adults an excuse for having some silly fun
Eliza Madrigal: I will restart FB beginning March, at least temporarily
Eliza Madrigal: so will look forward to seeing
Wol Euler: suggestion: if you want to write about the process, you can make lists of FB people and set your posts to be visible only to them
Wol Euler: I have a list of "not-family" for stuff I don't want them to read
Eliza Madrigal: I've made a few filters like that but never quite trust them
Wol Euler: yeah, I hear you
Eliza Madrigal: that's the general issue I'm having with FB, along with not wanting to perpetuate my ocd patterns :)
Eliza Madrigal: checking the pab wiki 1000 times a day is enough
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: awwwww
Eliza Madrigal: 4am pab is like truth serum
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: well, I don'T wish to encourage insomnia, but it's always lovely to see you here
Eliza Madrigal: thank you for your kindness Wol
Wol Euler smiles and shakes her head. Thank YOU dear Eliza, for yours.
Wol Euler: will you sleep now? it's what, 5 am?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe
Eliza Madrigal: I may put on an audio teaching and half sleep
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: then have a nap during the day, when you can
Eliza Madrigal: was just noticing San's valentine - perhaps missed it earlier in the day
Eliza Madrigal: cosmic :)
Wol Euler: oh, wow, I hadn't seen that at all
Wol Euler: I always cam to look at whoever's here
Eliza Madrigal: strangely, this morning I have kept a back view, which I almost never do
Eliza Madrigal: so the photo was so blatant yet I noticed but didn't
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: too big to be seen
Eliza Madrigal: and I'll try to nap, thanks - and will let you know about the log :) thanks for asking
Wol Euler: of course
Eliza Madrigal: have an enjoyable day and I wish you good things
Wol Euler: thank you, and the same to you, dear Eliza
Wol Euler: take care
Eliza Madrigal: take care Wol