The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: what stops?
Eos Amaterasu: that could mean, 'what is it that is stopped?'
Eos Amaterasu: or it could mean, 'what or who is doing the stopping?'
Eos Amaterasu: the larger context is that of 'stop and drop'

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Korel
Korel Laloix: Hyea
Korel Laloix: What is everyone else doing?
Aphrodite Macbain: they are observing the Working Group!
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, yes, I notice that some usual suspects are here but not here
Eos Amaterasu: "the only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts"
Aphrodite Macbain: curiosity
Korel Laloix: Jack of Hearts?
Eos Amaterasu: (Bob Dylan quote)
Korel Laloix: I do not understand the reference, sorry.
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Aph, Eliza
Korel Laloix: Oh OK. I know who that is at least... smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: whow was the WG meeting?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Kori, Aph, Bleu :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Cat
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie... see you flew
Eos Amaterasu: meow
Catrinamonblue Resident: waiting for things to rezz :)
Eliza Madrigal: (was a WG meeting tonight)
Eos Amaterasu: & stevenaia
Eos Amaterasu: & druth
druth Vlodovic: hi
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :)
Aphrodite Macbain: hi druth
Eos Amaterasu: quite a circle here!
Eos Amaterasu: & aph's by the water cooler
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph, everybody :)
Eliza Madrigal: s: all okay Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: I am being rude. I'm sorry. I am poised to fly elsewhere
Eos Amaterasu looks over at poise
druth Vlodovic: ah, catch you later aph
Aphrodite Macbain: :--)
Eliza Madrigal: :) okay Aph, see you soon
Korel Laloix: Poised to fly... a good band name.
Bleu Oleander waves to Aph
Catrinamonblue Resident: have fun Aph
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Aphrodite Macbain: please ignore me
Eos Amaterasu: hah hah
Korel Laloix: Impossible.
Aphrodite Macbain: waves back to all her good buddies
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
druth Vlodovic: \me ignores aph
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: you stuck?
Eos Amaterasu ignores aph
Eliza Madrigal ignores everyone ignoring Aph
Bleu Oleander: Aph? don't see her
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eos Amaterasu: don't think of a blonde aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm just ignorant
druth Vlodovic: ignores eliza ignoring me
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve been know to move immoblized avatars

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: The sim I planned to go to has disappeared. :-(
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :(
Eos Amaterasu: it has dropped
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eos Amaterasu: whups
Aphrodite Macbain: out of existence
stevenaia Michinaga: Wasn't that last week?
Catrinamonblue Resident: all the better for us to enjoy your company
Eos Amaterasu: aph was going nowhere
Aphrodite Macbain: nohow
Eos Amaterasu: noway
Bleu Oleander: poised for nowhere

Catrinamonblue Resident: well pull up a cushion and see what stops drops :)
Eos Amaterasu: so...
Eos Amaterasu: [19:06] Eos Amaterasu: what stops?
[19:07] Eos Amaterasu: that could mean, 'what is it that is stopped?'
[19:07] Eos Amaterasu: or it could mean, 'what or who is doing the stopping?'
[19:07] Eos Amaterasu: the larger context is that of 'stop and drop'

stevenaia Michinaga: monkey mind stops
Eos Amaterasu: ah
stevenaia Michinaga: always a good thing
druth Vlodovic: why is monkey mind bad?
stevenaia Michinaga: the clouds in the mind
Bleu Oleander: who knows a monkey's mind anyway?
Eos Amaterasu: "I'm not really bad - I'm just drawn that way" - Jessica Rabbit
stevenaia Michinaga: like white noise, hard to see details in there
Eliza Madrigal: I like this question because when I hear it/ask it of myself, I look to see what is going
druth Vlodovic: so monkey mind means reacting to clutter?
Eos Amaterasu: going from banana to peel
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it's easier to see in others than youreself
Eliza Madrigal: there is a story actually.. has to do with how to trap a monkey, which is to put something in a jar
Eliza Madrigal: and when the monkey reaches in and grabs it, it cannot get its hand out
Eos Amaterasu visualizes
stevenaia Michinaga: monkey mind is the clutter you create
Eliza Madrigal: because it won't let go, which would be necessary
Bleu Oleander: that's a terrible story Eliza hehe
Eliza Madrigal: but a true way monkeys were trapped... the jar was sort of glued to the ground
Eos Amaterasu: gad, poor little monkey!
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: so monkey mind is sort of like that
Bleu Oleander: at least make it a rat
druth Vlodovic: rats are probably smarter
Catrinamonblue Resident: your mind gets trapped in a jar?
Eliza Madrigal: quite applicable to clutter!
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eos Amaterasu: it's not the goodie that trapped the rat I(or monkey)
Eliza Madrigal: there is a stuckness because the monkey wants the treat
Eliza Madrigal: and may also want to be free
Eliza Madrigal: but not as much
Catrinamonblue Resident: running circles around the rim
Bleu Oleander: no monkeys were harmed in this experiment :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal is very fond of monkeys and wants them to be free and happy
Eos Amaterasu: maybe the monkey notices that she is hanging on
Eos Amaterasu: and relaxes
druth Vlodovic: then they must let go of their attachment to a source of happiness in order to be free
Catrinamonblue Resident: ouch
Catrinamonblue Resident: hard to do
Catrinamonblue Resident: let go of me
Eos Amaterasu: maybe the monkey just gets distracted
Bleu Oleander: like we do
Eos Amaterasu: :-)

druth Vlodovic: find greater unhappiness by clinging to a forgotten source of desire
Catrinamonblue Resident: desire is not happiness
Eliza Madrigal: forgotten source of desire... intriguing phrase
Eos Amaterasu: clinging to a forgotten source of desire sounds very painful
Eos Amaterasu: the clinging is there, banana forgotten
Eos Amaterasu: monkeys r us
Bleu Oleander: banana mind
druth Vlodovic: ifit were painful maybe we would do it less
Bleu Oleander: doubt that hehe
druth Vlodovic: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: maybe we don't realize the pain the the desire for the treat

Bleu Oleander: what about desire for happiness?
Bleu Oleander: we cling to that?
Eos Amaterasu: that's the virtue of boredom, that maybe subtler and harder to see ignoreds get more visible
Catrinamonblue Resident: happiness comes from within not by clinging or desire it just is
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps feel we are owed that and if we don't feel it we panic (in US promised life liberty etc)
Eliza Madrigal: although I guess we're really only promised the pursuit of it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: in canada we got security of person, happiness is your own look out
Eos Amaterasu: Madison, eh
Bleu Oleander: so desiring happiness for one's self .... hmmm seems self centered?
druth Vlodovic: thinking that leads to desire to be unhappy
stevenaia Michinaga: usually desiring isn't having, and having isn't desiring

--BELL--

druth Vlodovic: desire for virtue
Catrinamonblue Resident: doesn't like the word desire :( for me has connentations of unhappiness due to unrealistic expectations of desire
druth Vlodovic: "I surrendered all desire and got everything i wanted" lol
Bleu Oleander: some desires are ok I think
Catrinamonblue Resident: what ones Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: I desired icecream tonight and it tasted really really yummy hehe
Eos Amaterasu: desire at rest is like honey
druth Vlodovic: stick and attracts ants?
Eos Amaterasu: enjoyment and appreciation are
Eos Amaterasu: in those you are lost (as is oft said)
druth Vlodovic: I know I'm lost
Catrinamonblue Resident: as usual ;)
Eliza Madrigal: "the problem is not desire but that your desires are too small" - Nisargadatta
druth Vlodovic: lol
Eliza Madrigal: I hear that as a sort of Maslow's hierarchy
Bleu Oleander: so we need bigger desires?
druth Vlodovic: better targets?
Eos Amaterasu: ah, not just biggify
Eliza Madrigal: yes maybe we start with baby desires, our own needs and wants etc
Bleu Oleander: knew I should have had a double scoop hehe
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: so focused on wider desires?
druth Vlodovic: to an infant hunger seems a tragedy (or at least they say it is)
Eos Amaterasu: elemental
druth Vlodovic: t an adult it can add flavour to a later meal
Eliza Madrigal: hmm.. hunger like boredom
druth Vlodovic: replace boredom with serenity maybe
Eos Amaterasu: basic ground or earth level
Eos Amaterasu: keen, even
Eos Amaterasu: I think such boredom includes pain, too (so the serenity gets quite inclusive)
druth Vlodovic: boredom suggests unhappiness
Bleu Oleander: don't really understand how anyone can be bored
Eos Amaterasu: that might be initial phase
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bleu I should get you to talk to my kids about boredom :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Eos Amaterasu: a simple way to get someone (or most people) bored is to have them do nothing for 5 or 9 minutes
Bleu Oleander: I'd have them doing art projects hehe
druth Vlodovic: perhaps boredom is what is left if all desire is removed
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eos Amaterasu: let's see!
Eliza Madrigal: there is something about 'our needs and wants' level too, that the wider desires are in there
Eos Amaterasu: is the goal to remove all desire?
druth Vlodovic: if you had the motivation of desire you would do something about it
Eliza Madrigal: I think of boredom as a pre-creative state
Eos Amaterasu: is that part of "what stops"?
Bleu Oleander: why remove all desire?
druth Vlodovic: to me it is, we're talking about what we have before we stop
stevenaia Michinaga: might end all war:)
Bleu Oleander: doubt that
Eliza Madrigal: how to enjoy desire rather than being ruled by it?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eos Amaterasu: how to appreciate without fixation?
Bleu Oleander: desire management
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: equanimity in desire?
Eos Amaterasu: non-managed desire
druth Vlodovic: or perhaps stopping learned helplessness
Eos Amaterasu: desire let loose, like the lilies of the field
druth Vlodovic: which prevents us from seeking to fulfill desire
Bleu Oleander: seems unnatural to try to tamp down all desire ... we are human after all ... uh, at least avatars
stevenaia Michinaga: you can desire that someone have what you have (or what they want)
Catrinamonblue Resident: desire compassion?
druth Vlodovic: can you drop the desire to remove desire?
Eos Amaterasu: let's try
Eliza Madrigal: somehow the food analogy works for me atm... the enjoyment present in appreciating food, the appreciation is greater when the desire is more subtle... or hm, something
Catrinamonblue Resident: leaving only compassion ( or whatever the desire is)
Eos Amaterasu: only the food

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: my mind reached toward checking 99 days, then I pictured the monkey with the jar and didn't go, then took three deep breaths, then went anyway :)
Eos Amaterasu looks at the jar around her wrist
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: jar jewelry
Bleu Oleander: more out of habit than desire perhaps?
Catrinamonblue Resident: is still stuck on desire and not liking the word but not able to articulte why
Eos Amaterasu: "it's all about me"?
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's about expectations
Eliza Madrigal: yes Bleu, but both.. if curiosity is a kind of desire
Eliza Madrigal listens
Catrinamonblue Resident: and that they can be false
Catrinamonblue Resident: leading to unhappiness when the experince doesn't meet up
Catrinamonblue Resident: to what we desired
Eos Amaterasu: the energy of desire has a kind of purity to it
Eos Amaterasu: the wind aspect of it
Catrinamonblue Resident: does it?
Catrinamonblue Resident: for me it doesn't
Bleu Oleander: curiosity ... desire to know perhaps?
Eos Amaterasu: desire pushes up flowers :-)
Eos Amaterasu: tropism
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: is that desire or joy of being?
Eos Amaterasu: both
Eliza Madrigal: reaching
Eliza Madrigal: connecting
druth Vlodovic: enjoying what is and thus fulfilling potential
Catrinamonblue Resident: desire as grasping?
Eos Amaterasu: not just about oneself in current state
Eliza Madrigal: nourishment?
druth Vlodovic: filling each fibre of being
druth Vlodovic: and just doing
Catrinamonblue Resident: what you say Druth to me is not desire but just being
Catrinamonblue Resident: me in the moment
Catrinamonblue Resident: no past no future just existence
druth Vlodovic: desire often suggests that you create an image to compare your eventual experience to
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens
druth Vlodovic: which is fine if the experience exceeds the image
Eos Amaterasu: I think that's right, druth, yes
Bleu Oleander: or at least meets it
druth Vlodovic: but the image can cause dissatisfaction with a good experience
Eos Amaterasu: hope and fear move us away from here
druth Vlodovic: which is either less, or just different
Eliza Madrigal: isn't that quite a fixed idea of desire?
druth Vlodovic: yes
Eliza Madrigal: desire that leaves room may surprise
Bleu Oleander: want, lust, hope, crave, wish ... many colors of desire
Eos Amaterasu: "all these emotions of mine..."
druth Vlodovic: seek, strive
Eos Amaterasu: desire that leaves room.... self has left that room
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: accepting then opening desire
Catrinamonblue Resident: expectations create a narrow vision of what may be, to me desire is expectations :) can expectations really leave room?
Eos Amaterasu: but desire is not expectations (just) to all
Eos Amaterasu: expectations fill room
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes I am seeing that :) trying to understand it
Catrinamonblue Resident: in the context of my own experience
Bleu Oleander: desires vary with the strength of the feeling
Eos Amaterasu: can be dangerous stuff
Eos Amaterasu: like all elemental forces
Catrinamonblue Resident: can burn you
Catrinamonblue Resident: and those around
druth Vlodovic: can also free you from strictures and rules
stevenaia Michinaga: expectation are just an arbitrary bar t measure something, set them too low and you succeed, set them to high and you appear to fail
Eos Amaterasu: that's also true, yes, druth
Catrinamonblue Resident: like a forest fire that frees the the seeds

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: tried to drop expectations of desire but thinks that will take more thinking about before dropping
Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks Eos, everyone for a comforting and disturbing session :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Night Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: night Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: ((((((((( friends ))))))))) Night
Bleu Oleander: nite Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: will also depart, thank you all and good night!
druth Vlodovic: we seek to please and horrify
Bleu Oleander: take care
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
druth Vlodovic: 'night those leaving
Eliza Madrigal: eyelids dropping :)
Bleu Oleander: me too
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a good session title, druth
Eliza Madrigal: night
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Korel Laloix: Cioa
Bleu Oleander: bye all ... sweet dreams
Catrinamonblue Resident: night Steve, Bleu
Catrinamonblue Resident: NIght everyone