2013.03.17 13:00 - Appreciating the appearance of being -

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Breezer
Breezer Tomsen: Hi Aphro
Breezer Tomsen: enjoying the birds :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- my favourite sound what does Advaitin mean? (part of Breezers ID)
Breezer Tomsen: Advaitin is rooted from Advaita Vedanta a nondual philosophy from india
Breezer Tomsen: its a person who walks the advaita path i guess
Aphrodite Macbain: what does that entail? Can you describe it?
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it like Buddhism?
Breezer Tomsen: no it is more uhm how do I say that, a mental process to use thinking in order to go beyond thinking, it a yoga of wisdom
Breezer Tomsen: they also call it jnana yoga
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds really interesting
Breezer Tomsen: bhakti yoga is more with the hearth, and jnana more with words, but in the end both merge (bhakti and jnana)
Aphrodite Macbain: words and hearth
Aphrodite Macbain: hearth is heat and being at home?
Aphrodite Macbain: a feeling?
--BELL--
Breezer Tomsen: more a kind of devotion, a way to surrender to something higher that’s bhakti
Breezer Tomsen: but jnana yoga or advaita is in fact a very simple philosophy but when you follow the path it goes pretty deep, its not that easy

Breezer Tomsen: hi brucy :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Aphy!
Aphrodite Macbain: Breezer is explaining what Advaitin means
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Breezer!
Breezer Tomsen: Hello Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Breezer Tomsen: but there is a problem with the so called neo advaita or western advaita, people take away al the rituals and habits from the east and try to make it more easy

Aphrodite Macbain: So today we are going to explore Appreciating appearance of Being.
Bruce Mowbray: great!
Aphrodite Macbain: I have made a notecard
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Breezer Tomsen: let’s have a look
Aphrodite Macbain: have a read- it is a quote from Pema made in 2008
Bruce Mowbray reads the notecard.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Blue!
Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
Breezer Tomsen: Hello bleu
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu!
Bruce Mowbray thinks it might be a toss-up between the presence of appearance and the appearance of presence. Appreciation is key.
Aphrodite Macbain: Here's the theme for the week
Aphrodite Macbain: can you explain it Bruce? Pema suggested working our way backwards through the expression
Aphrodite Macbain: or can you Bleu?

“Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being”.

Pema Pera: The way to read this is from the end

Pema Pera: There is Being — Being is all there really IS

Pema Pera: Being presents

Pema Pera: What does Being present?

Pema Pera: appearance

Pema Pera: more specifically:

Pema Pera: the presence of appearance

Pema Pera: and what can we do with that?

Pema Pera: Appreciate it

Pia Iger: so easy Pema

Pera: yes!!

Pema Pera: once you learn to subtract, it all becomes very easy.

Pema Pera: easier and easier as you go along

Bruce Mowbray: Well, let me first share my emotional response the first time I truly entered into this insight.
Bruce Mowbray: It was unquestionably the "highest" I have ever been in SL.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bleu Oleander listens to Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: The "highest" I have ever been in PaB.
Aphrodite Macbain: I vaguely remember that time
Bruce Mowbray: It was one of those experiences that you feel you might like to hold on to forever...
Bruce Mowbray: and never leave.
Aphrodite Macbain: an "aha" moment?
Bruce Mowbray: But, of course, that would be contrary to the whole program!!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: One must let it all go.
Bruce Mowbray: Especially the "highs".
Aphrodite Macbain: but appreciate it first
Bruce Mowbray: in order to appreciate each new appearance.
Wol Euler: evening all!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, by all means, appreciate first... then let go.
Bleu Oleander: why do you think it's important to let it all go?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol!!
Breezer Tomsen: hi wol / vorder
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol!
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol, Vorder :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Vorder!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Vorder.
Bruce Mowbray: It's the basic idea of "clinging" -- and then holding onto commentaries, etc...
Bruce Mowbray: That's how religions get made, you know!
Aphrodite Macbain: We are talking about appreciating the appearance of being
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: do you think there should never be a layering of ideas or concepts then?
Bruce Mowbray: Do I?
Bleu Oleander: or anyone
Aphrodite Macbain: why do you ask Bleu? I'm not sure what you mean and how it relates to the quote
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: just posing a question
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray ponders layering.
Bleu Oleander: if you let everything go ... how can one build on ideas or concepts?
Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bleu Oleander: relating to what Bruce was saying
Bruce Mowbray: There is building on of concepts -- and, perhaps, appreciation of the edifice...
Bruce Mowbray: and then there is appreciation of the appearance of presence -- in the moment.
Wol Euler: Bleu is I believe suggesting that if you let go of an idea, you don't have it available to add to other concepts
Aphrodite Macbain: I think it is more about accepting what is, appreciating it

Bruce Mowbray: I'm thinking that Aph is pushing the latter now -- in the discussion.
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Aphrodite Macbain: by moving on I don’t mean forgetting it, but not putting any emotional attachment to it
Bruce Mowbray: If you have REALLY done that -- I mean moment-by-moment -- it's like instant awakening.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: let’s think about it without holding it
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Bleu Oleander: I'm just suggesting that it's not always a given that not hold a concept or idea or thought
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.

Bruce Mowbray: Outside the window behind my computer - at this moment, there are four different species of woodpeckers pecking at the suet feeders I put up today.... I could casually observe...
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm Hmmm Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: or I could "APPRECIATE" the appearance of the presence of these.... entities.
Bruce Mowbray: and HOW AMAZING THAT IS!
Bruce Mowbray: IS!*
Bruce Mowbray: no labeling.
Bruce Mowbray: no commentary

Bleu Oleander: even moving on has emotions attached to it
Bruce Mowbray: no remembrance of past experience.

Aphrodite Macbain: the quote doesn’t talk about holding though; it just talks about appreciating it - like a guest in your house.

Wol Euler: hello storm
Bleu Oleander: hiya Storm :)
Bruce Mowbray: Just appreciate what is happening now.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Storm!
Storm Nordwind: Hi all :)
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at storm
Breezer Tomsen: hi storm
Bleu Oleander: thank you for readying the Dome for Art of Being Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: You're welcome
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Aphrodite Macbain: I had a bit of a eureka moment with that phrase recently
Bruce Mowbray listens for Aph's eureka moment.
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Aphrodite Macbain: I have been fighting depression
Aphrodite Macbain: and i have been reading a bit about being present and mindful
Aphrodite Macbain: and not avoiding bad emotions but accepting them, giving them space and making them welcome
Bruce Mowbray: (yes!)
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: It occurred to me that this is what this expression is all about - appreciating and not avoiding what appears..
Aphrodite Macbain: and dealing with it
Aphrodite Macbain: am I right?
Wol Euler: I think so :)
Wol Euler: hello cat
Wol Euler: hello aggers
Bruce Mowbray: In your Case, Aph. . . it would amount to appreciating the appearance of presence of the reading material....
Aphrodite Macbain: I still don’t know how to do that - appreciating - but it makes sense
Catrinamonblue Resident: hi all :)
Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Cat , Aggers .
Aphrodite Macbain: I appreciate your appearances
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aggers!
Bleu Oleander: hi Cat
Breezer Tomsen: hi cat / aggers
Agatha Macbeth waves
Bruce Mowbray: So, where are we?
Bleu Oleander: here
Agatha Macbeth: Bieup?
Bruce Mowbray: !
Aphrodite Macbain: we are exploring this phrase
Aphrodite Macbain: and seeing what it means to us
Bruce Mowbray: Appreciating the appearance of presence.
Aphrodite Macbain: of Being
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Bruce Mowbray: it is really not that difficult.
Storm Nordwind: as a presentation by being
Aphrodite Macbain: what does it mean to others? How does it apply to your lives, if it does?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, as a presentation by Being.
Bruce Mowbray listens ever more carefully.
Bruce Mowbray ponders..... Is this not what we do every time we "drop" during the 90-second breaks?
Breezer Tomsen: i think it is easier to appreciate a singing bird than a headache, it is a true art to be unattached and to let the headache also be...
Breezer Tomsen: or whatever might be painful
Bruce Mowbray: Pain is difficult to appreciate, yes.
Bruce Mowbray: How about the appearance of pain, though?
Agatha Macbeth: Pain does tend to grab ones attention tho
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes! That’s when it's hard. Not to avoid it or ignore it
Catrinamonblue Resident: acceptance of appreciation of appearance of being acceptance of pain and joy of just being the moment appreciate pain as growth of being stop/pause assess drop open eyes and experience being let the wind blow you where it will and enjoy the ride
Catrinamonblue Resident: just a thought that’s all :)
Agatha Macbeth: A nice thought Cat
Wol Euler smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Bruce Mowbray loves "Let the wind blow you...."
Aphrodite Macbain: our PaB poet extraordinaire
Bruce Mowbray: "Enjoy" might sit very close to "Appreciate."
Catrinamonblue Resident: (blushes)
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Bruce Mowbray: but not exactly in the same space.
Aphrodite Macbain: neither aversion nor clinging - just appreciating its being there
Bruce Mowbray: yes!
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder where I stand as I do this appreciating. Is there another me - outside the one that is feeling and observing - creating this safe space? I find it hard to feel something and be dispassionate at the same time.
Aphrodite Macbain: It is like we have 2 minds
Bruce Mowbray: There are too many "you's" to count, Aph... and the same goes for all of us.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we need Zen for this one :p
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray ponders, Zen to the rescue.
Agatha Macbeth: On a white steed
Aphrodite Macbain: does anyone feel the way I do? That we have “a me observing and a me” feeling?
Wol Euler: wb vorder
Bruce Mowbray: On a monolith . . . . But Zen would be the first to reject that, I think.
Vorder Forder: thank you
Storm Nordwind: What is it, that's in or about you that is not dispassionate?
Agatha Macbeth: Well to me it's the same thing
Wol Euler: yes, aph, and more layers of "me" than just two :) they become very visible in meditation
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: Only watch.
Catrinamonblue Resident: me to infinity? :)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- but there is a me that is a sort of observer
Agatha Macbeth: From her to eternity
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, to infinity... ..... which makes humility of everyone.
Wol Euler: maybe not *that* far :)
Wol Euler: ha!
Bruce Mowbray: We comprise a vast cosmos... No?
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I am only aware of an observer and perhaps a thinker and a feeler
Bruce Mowbray: No separation.
Storm Nordwind: You do have a choice with what you identify with. You can identify with the flighty mind, or the turbulent feelings, or you can identify with the overarching awareness
Aphrodite Macbain: It's the emotions I have a hard time with Stormy
Catrinamonblue Resident: mmm don't we all at some time
Agatha Macbeth: You too?
Bruce Mowbray prefers the over-arching awareness... also known as "Appreciation of the awareness of presence."
Storm Nordwind: Emotions and thoughts are doing their job. They keep this animal going in this world! ;) But what is it that experiences the thoughts. What is it that experiences the emotions?
Wol Euler: hello lila, happy greenday
Aphrodite Macbain: Heya Lila welcome!
Breezer Tomsen: somehow I guess it also has to do with energy, sometimes 'i' also experience unity or oneness but sometimes its stronger than other times, don’t know exactly why that is, think it has to do with energy...
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Lila!
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Lila
Bleu Oleander: hi Lila
Lila Darkmatter: Hello everyone ... big group :)
Agatha Macbeth: G'day Lil
Breezer Tomsen: hi lila
Bruce Mowbray: Aph's groups are always big.
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Agatha Macbeth: We are Aph groupies
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we are!
Aphrodite Macbain: I figure no one has anything else to do on a Sunday!
Bruce Mowbray appreciates the appearance of Aph's groupies.
Aphrodite Macbain appreciates all your appearance too
Bruce Mowbray: as presented by Being.
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes it feels like it is hard to separate out the me that experiences from the experience itself
Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
Storm Nordwind: Yes, It takes practice
Catrinamonblue Resident: going back to what Storm said
Bruce Mowbray: You know, there is also an after-glow.,..... something that comes after the session... an appreciation of the echo.
Breezer Tomsen: “somehow I guess it also has to do with energy, sometimes 'i' also experience unity or oneness but sometimes its stronger than other times, don’t know exactly why that is, think it has to do with energy.” Does anyone know why this sometimes seems to be stronger than other times?
Aphrodite Macbain: experience is taken in by one's senses, made sense of by one's brain and felt y ones emotions
Aphrodite Macbain: energy - yes. do you think there is negative and positive energy?
Catrinamonblue Resident: we create negative and positive energy?
Lila Darkmatter: relaxation maybe... not sure that the energy changes but maybe receptivity?
Storm Nordwind: That depends on what you think positive and negative mean
Aphrodite Macbain: true
Bruce Mowbray ponders "Beware of reductionism" . . . to anything! Emotions, chemistry, molecules..... Whatever!
Aphrodite Macbain: even atoms?
Bruce Mowbray: Simply appreciate the appearance of presence.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Breezer Tomsen: true Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: Try to use other words. I was hoping we could use other words to say the same thing
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: wonders if acceptance is along the lines of compassion

Storm Nordwind: Acceptance is certainly an element of compassion to oneself, yes Cat
Bruce Mowbray: This week, the folks at CERN said that the Higgs Boson was REAL!
Bruce Mowbray: So . . . . . ?
Bruce Mowbray ponders and appreciates "elements of compassion toward self."
Aphrodite Macbain: Could we say "be willing to face and accept all experiences"
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that would be a wonderful thing to say and to experience.
Aphrodite Macbain: would that be saying that in different words
Lila Darkmatter: "willingness to stay" or to "show up" is a phrase that helps me
Bruce Mowbray: May I see things as they really are.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes!!
Aphrodite Macbain: things as they are
Storm Nordwind: You see, "acceptance" also has its own baggage as a word! It implies to some people mere rolling over and submitting to whatever happens, when in reality one needs often to take action. So what really is acceptance?
Bruce Mowbray listens, waits, appreciates... accepts.
Aphrodite Macbain waits for the bell
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps "face" rather than "accept"
Breezer Tomsen: words cant explain i guess
Catrinamonblue Resident: acceptance - withhold judgment?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes withhold aversion or clinging
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes it's just as hard to not hold on tightly to something
Bruce Mowbray: withhold mental commentaries.
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps hold things lightly, gently, lovingly
Catrinamonblue Resident: maybe it's more just being open to the moment? Allowing things to fall lightly?
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: snap
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Storm Nordwind: While i agree, I just point out how many others won't, since they feel things will spur them to act, saying perhaps that if you judge that a truck is about to hit you then it may be best to move!
Bruce Mowbray: but avoiding the truck does not involve mental commentary.
Catrinamonblue Resident: well yes different circumstances will require different actions ;)
Agatha Macbeth: Just quick feet
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain:-D
Lila Darkmatter: "it’s a situation and the leap away just emerges"
Aphrodite Macbain: and no attachments
Bruce Mowbray: May thy feet be swift and thy commentaries slow.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: And you're telling me Bruce that everything else you do has mental commentary?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, most of it. unfortunately.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ari, welcome
Arisia Vita: greetings all
Bleu Oleander: hi Ari
Lila Darkmatter: Hello Ari
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Ari!
Breezer Tomsen: hi ari
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Ari :)
Wol Euler: hello ari
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Ari dear
Aphrodite Macbain: we are talking about "“Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being”.
Bruce Mowbray: Another word for commentary is "rumination."
Bruce Mowbray: "Home movies."
Aphrodite Macbain: Rumination is not advised
Storm Nordwind: Unless you're a cow
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: moooo
Agatha Macbeth: Moo
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Aphrodite Macbain: that too
Bruce Mowbray: Moo moo moo.
Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear. things are deteriorating
Bruce Mowbray: reguritation....
Agatha Macbeth: Things do, it seems
Aphrodite Macbain: How does one stop ruminating ?
Agatha Macbeth: Think it's called entropy
Bruce Mowbray: does not tend toward appreciation of the awareness of presence.
Bleu Oleander: appreciating the appearance deteriorating
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Lila Darkmatter: resting in Being
Aphrodite Macbain: ahh nice thought
Bruce Mowbray: Resting is where it's at -- Thank, Lila!
Storm Nordwind: I think some people will always ruminate. Perhaps those are the same people who find it easy to write diaries, journals and blogs. Others, like me, have difficulty doing it and also difficulty in reflecting as we're always in the present moment,
Aphrodite Macbain: Rest but not entropy
Aphrodite Macbain: For me ruminating leads me into a downward spiral of irrelevant thoughts

Bleu Oleander: aren't we all always in the present moment?
Bruce Mowbray: We are.
Aphrodite Macbain: physically yes, but mentally,no
Storm Nordwind: No Bleu, I don't think everyone is all the time
Bruce Mowbray: but can we appreciate the present moment?
Bleu Oleander: time travel not available yet?
Wol Euler: no bleu, I am very often not, sorry to say
Aphrodite Macbain: I look backwards and think about the future
Bleu Oleander: but you look back in the present
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Arisia Vita: If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
Catrinamonblue Resident: can you be both in the present and ruminate?
Aphrodite Macbain: without being consciously in the present. I can be miles away
Aphrodite Macbain: no cat, I doubt it
Bleu Oleander: we think about the past and future in the present
Bruce Mowbray: Depends on how may "selves" you have in operation.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: If you identify with your awareness, Cat, and not the thoughts, feelings or memories, then yes. But I've met few so far that separate that out
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes I forget where I am
Lila Darkmatter: I do think it is possible... from that restful place, that past present future are all appearances able to be inclusively appreciated
Wol Euler: but we don't think about the present when we are thinking about past or future
Bruce Mowbray: Part of me can ruminate, while other parts of me watch.
Lila Darkmatter: "present" can be a thing to strive for too
Aphrodite Macbain: nods at Wol
Lila Darkmatter: it is the striving at issue perhaps

Wol Euler: the commonest example I have of that in my life is "autopilot" while walking around town
Bruce Mowbray also nods at Wol.
Bleu Oleander: can't really get out of the present
Wol Euler: my thoughts are often miles, and years, away from where my feet are
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think sometimes I can do that Storm,
Aphrodite Macbain: being in the moment, being fully aware of what is requires us to be in the present only
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Wol Euler: I arrive at my destination and "wake up" and don't truly know how I got there
Bruce Mowbray: But, doesn't appreciation of the appearance bring us back?
Agatha Macbeth: Folks it is Berti time
Storm Nordwind: Most people, I suggest, focus what they're looking at, rather than focus on what's looking and where they're looking from. It's immersivity :)
Wol Euler: it would if we did it :)
Bruce Mowbray: Berti time!
Agatha Macbeth: I fear I must leave you
Wol Euler: right, berti calls!
Aphrodite Macbain: nods - I do that a lot. "What am I doing standing in the kitchen?"
Arisia Vita: off to paradise
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS, everyone!
Agatha Macbeth: Take care, be well
Wol Euler: goodnight to all those who are remaining
Aphrodite Macbain: Did berti call?
Arisia Vita: yes he did
Arisia Vita: meditation at 2
Aphrodite Macbain: Then I am off too. I appreciate you all for being here. Thank you.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Breezer Tomsen: thank you Aphrodite
Bleu Oleander: bye all
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye to all leaving :)
Lila Darkmatter: thanks everyone... going to see Bertram too
Lila Darkmatter: be well
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Goodbye for now :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Storm :)
Breezer Tomsen: by bye storm
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Breezer :)
Breezer Tomsen: by bye