The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Conversation was recorded from Kira Cafe due to region restart.

Employment:

Zen (zen.arado): Hi Bert
Bertram Jacobus: hey dear zen again ! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): aren't you wroking today Bert?
Zen (zen.arado): working
Zen (zen.arado): it is a holiday in France
Bertram Jacobus: oh no - i´m off of duties like that already since the end of january
Zen (zen.arado): oh?
Bertram Jacobus: yes - here it´s a day off work as well
Bertram Jacobus: yes - the last job i did was so horrible that i became ill from it
Zen (zen.arado): oh dear
Zen (zen.arado): sorry to hear that
Bertram Jacobus: economy is partly cruel these days in germany ...
Bertram Jacobus: it´s okay zen - the only way to get saved from such is becoming ill - so it is okay
Zen (zen.arado): better than other places though
Zen (zen.arado): yes maybe
Bertram Jacobus: you have that diagnosis in ireland as well, called "burn out syndrome" ?
Zen (zen.arado): I had to retire at 48
Zen (zen.arado): because of disability
Bertram Jacobus: i see ...
Zen (zen.arado): I didn't like job much though
Zen (zen.arado): very stressful too
Bertram Jacobus: i my case, it won´t be a complete retirement yet, only this "state looking for work", but may be, i won´t find anything anymore , in my age, without qualification ...
Zen (zen.arado): it's ok as long as you have enough money
Zen (zen.arado): yes it gets harder as you get older
Zen (zen.arado): I was lucky i had a pension
Bertram Jacobus: money is okay, so far. but the feeling, that everytime ths state authorities can send a letter and order me to go for really bad jobs is not so nice ...
Zen (zen.arado): I don't need so much money now anyway
Zen (zen.arado): ah yes
Bertram Jacobus: we´ll see. at the moment it is okay so far ...
Zen (zen.arado): I am writing a story of when I lived in Brisbane in 1962 and it was difficult to get work

Viewers:

Zen (zen.arado): I had to take really bad jobs
Bertram Jacobus: another topic is that i use the new firestorm viewer for the very first time just now
Zen (zen.arado): oh?
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. yes. before is till ran the phoenix - nostagic me ... ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): I had problems with Firestorm
Bertram Jacobus: but then i couldn´t see a mesh as it seemed to me sand so i changed
Bertram Jacobus: . s
Bertram Jacobus: -s
Bertram Jacobus: and*
Bertram Jacobus: *giggle*
Bertram Jacobus: sry pls ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): it's fine
Bertram Jacobus: ty dear zen ! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): I have to record this from my chat log for the Wiki and Firestorm was leaving out what I said
Zen (zen.arado): I was talikg to Xirana and it recorded only what she said
Bertram Jacobus: they write : most of the firestorm problems come from having it not properly installed - they rate this cause with 90 % of all problems caused from that (!)
Zen (zen.arado): yeh maybe
Zen (zen.arado): you are suposed to do a clean install
Zen (zen.arado): delete all previous files
Zen (zen.arado): but not many do that
Zen (zen.arado): I like the LL viewer
Zen (zen.arado): they keep changing it is the only problem
Bertram Jacobus: thats "strange", "odd" - i would like to know pls : are these words too much negative ? and if so : is or are there one or some which are less negative ?
Zen (zen.arado): but us Buddhists should be used to change :)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. yes ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: but liking to be a comfortable i hope is okay as well for buddhists ?
Bertram Jacobus: and not having to upgrade where it´s not necessairy ? ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): I went to a total brain health session last weekend
Zen (zen.arado): they say you should be prepared to take on new challenges
Zen (zen.arado): keep ding different things
Zen (zen.arado): doing
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Sunji :)
Bertram Jacobus: yay - sun ! hi ! :-)
Sunshine (szavanna): afternoon Ji-s °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): I was telling bert we need to keep ding new things to keep our brains healthy
Sunshine (szavanna): happy Mayday °͜°
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe very true
Zen (zen.arado): even change to new viewers :)
Sunshine (szavanna): ah yes
Sunshine (szavanna): I am on singularity
Sunshine (szavanna): how are you both?
Zen (zen.arado): fine thanks
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Bertram Jacobus: when you turn off your ao sun, may be i would see you sitting not half inside the chair (?) ... ;-)
Sunshine (szavanna): ok °͜°
Sunshine (szavanna): now?
Zen (zen.arado): we had a discussion about sex and disabilty in VAI last night ;)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe- works - ty ! :o)
Sunshine (szavanna): great °͜°
Bertram Jacobus: yes :-)
Sunshine (szavanna): oh you did?
Bertram Jacobus: very much so !
Sunshine (szavanna): I was practising sleeping °͜°
Sunshine (szavanna): and how was it ?
Bertram Jacobus: and now i can see your apparently mesh clothing sun !
Sunshine (szavanna): yes meshy today :)
Zen (zen.arado): how dfo you know it is mesh?
Bertram Jacobus: that showed me that my old firestorm viewer wasn´t able anymore to show such meshes correctly
Sunshine (szavanna): hmm one can tell
Sunshine (szavanna): it follows the body's lines
Sunshine (szavanna): I just got african PJs - mesh too
Bertram Jacobus: and led me th the new firestorm viewer, just before - so first new firestorm session today for me ! ... ;-)
Sunshine (szavanna): ;o)
Sunshine (szavanna): ahh good for brain health hehe
Sunshine (szavanna): Zenji so your time didn't change?
Zen (zen.arado): Wol advised me not to get mesh clothes
Sunshine (szavanna): still wed 7am?
Zen (zen.arado): yes so far
Sunshine (szavanna): kk :)
Zen (zen.arado): I don't want to change :)
Sunshine (szavanna): Mesh can be nice sometimes
Sunshine (szavanna): what about brain health?
Sunshine (szavanna): ;p
Zen (zen.arado): I can use Ultra for my graphics
Sunshine (szavanna): 7am is better for me actually so good if you don't change
Zen (zen.arado): fast computer
Sunshine (szavanna): lucky you
Zen (zen.arado): it is difficult having restarts is all
Zen (zen.arado): but I am used to it
Zen (zen.arado): I can't buy a car or go on holidays so I might as well have a good computer :)
Bertram Jacobus: zen - i just had to read what you both wrote - and may contribute still to it : i don´t call myself a buddhist anymore, but a kind of sympathysant - is that an english and / or understandable word ?
Zen (zen.arado): region is back again now
Zen (zen.arado): yeh me too Bert
Bertram Jacobus: nice :-))
Zen (zen.arado): sympathiser
Sunshine (szavanna): sorry back °͜°

Teachings:

Bertram Jacobus: i still love so many of the buddhist teachings and elements, knowing and all such
Zen (zen.arado): wb Sunji
Sunshine (szavanna): ty °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): I like non duality perspective
Bertram Jacobus: but i see the same truth in other systems as well ...
Zen (zen.arado): there is only our own perspective finally
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Sunshine (szavanna): hm its the same world
Sunshine (szavanna): for all of us
Zen (zen.arado): and I keep changing
Sunshine (szavanna): same sun, same moon
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Zen (zen.arado): you sure Sunji?
Bertram Jacobus: i lke especially "being" at the moment and take it as the so to say "absolute" (!) ... :-)
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe
Sunshine (szavanna): Zenji always gets me
Sunshine (szavanna): ;D
Sunshine (szavanna): not sure lol
Zen (zen.arado): brb phone
Sunshine (szavanna): "they say its the same"
Sunshine (szavanna): hb °͜°
Bertram Jacobus: i take it as the same, knowing that we always must calculate that we may err in our understanding of reality ...
Sunshine (szavanna): hmm its been making sense to me that we all live the same world
Sunshine (szavanna): *in the same world
Zen (zen.arado): back
Sunshine (szavanna): wb °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): but we all see it differently
Zen (zen.arado): ?
Bertram Jacobus: only partly
Sunshine (szavanna): hmm from my own perspective
Zen (zen.arado): my eyes aren't the same as anybody elses
Bertram Jacobus: otherwise we couldnt communicate
Sunshine (szavanna): it makes sense to think that wheverever you are in the world ....its just the same system
Zen (zen.arado): if I look at the marina I see something different from a sailor
Sunshine (szavanna): of course
Sunshine (szavanna): I mean something different
Zen (zen.arado): he sees details of boats that I don't
Zen (zen.arado): see what I mean?
Sunshine (szavanna): we like to separate the planet into systems, countries etc
Sunshine (szavanna): yes
Zen (zen.arado): yes we make labels and categories
Bertram Jacobus: sure, but only partly - the other part are the similar elements which count for all of us or at least for the majority
Sunshine (szavanna): I don't see reason for separation
Zen (zen.arado): then we don't really look any more
Sunshine (szavanna): it seems fake
Sunshine (szavanna): yes what I mean is the labels and categories
Zen (zen.arado): all forms change anyway
Sunshine (szavanna): yes
Zen (zen.arado): we see changing temporary things
Bertram Jacobus: and it is good to join, to melt i´m convinced
Zen (zen.arado): so nothing stays the same anyway
Bertram Jacobus: to come together , to find unity
Zen (zen.arado): we are all part of a whole
Sunshine (szavanna): yes hmm
Sunshine (szavanna): better walk a pathless path
Zen (zen.arado): we just need to stop trying to separate ourselves so much
Sunshine (szavanna): no categories and concepts
Zen (zen.arado): we need them for usefulness
Sunshine (szavanna): it feels comfortable for me
Zen (zen.arado): but have to realise thay are only temporary
Bertram Jacobus: i find it´s helpful to stress that common base. then one can play with the elements and categories and whatever
Bertram Jacobus: but more important is to be sure, that the absolute base is or can be realized
Bertram Jacobus: what means available
Zen (zen.arado): it's like the ocean and we are waves
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Sunshine (szavanna): I think its nice to chat about this
Zen (zen.arado): but I don't think we can ever understand the absolute
Zen (zen.arado): it is a mystery
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I bought stupid boots
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe
Sunshine (szavanna): whats wrong with them
Bertram Jacobus: understanding is dual, unity is unique - but my impression is, we can experience unity
Sunshine (szavanna): u have 4 feet
Sunshine (szavanna): ok now 2
Bertram Jacobus: 4 feet ?? *giggle*
Zen (zen.arado): yes that's what's wrong with them :)
Sunshine (szavanna): ;D
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Rato
Sunshine (szavanna): may be you need to wear your alpha layer?
Zen (zen.arado): I did
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Rato
Sunshine (szavanna): ah ok then you are right
Sunshine (szavanna): stupid boots ;P
Zen (zen.arado): I'll put sneakers on again
Sunshine (szavanna): :)

Building class:

Sunshine (szavanna): tonight we will do music and sounds at Building class
Zen (zen.arado): how are you Sunji?
Sunshine (szavanna): come if you can
Zen (zen.arado): is there a class tonight?
Sunshine (szavanna): oh I am good
Sunshine (szavanna): yes there is
Bertram Jacobus: when will it be ? what time ?
Sunshine (szavanna): I am back to normal
Sunshine (szavanna): noonslt
Bertram Jacobus: wow - what was before ?
Zen (zen.arado): good
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Rato how are you :)
Sunshine (szavanna): before?
Sunshine (szavanna): what do you mean Bert
Sunshine (szavanna): I was taking a break
Bertram Jacobus: when you said back to normal, what was before normal pls sun ?
Sunshine (szavanna): oh what I meant was - we didn't have the class for 2 weeks
Sunshine (szavanna): I was taking a break
Sunshine (szavanna): but now we are back to normal
Bertram Jacobus: ahh - okay :-)
Sunshine (szavanna): ah zenji I found something
Bertram Jacobus: now i see
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I made a flamenco dress last week
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe
Sunshine (szavanna): yes
Zen (zen.arado): very useful :)
Sunshine (szavanna): lol
Sunshine (szavanna): yes very
Sunshine (szavanna): test it if works for you
Zen (zen.arado): but could use principles to make a robe
Sunshine (szavanna): yes
Sunshine (szavanna): you can use it for anything that needs rezzed in a circle
Sunshine (szavanna): like a necklace
Paco De Lucia - Entre Dos Aguas: whispers: Playing...
Sunshine (szavanna): can u hear?
Sunshine (szavanna): *you
Bertram Jacobus: yayy ! :-)
Sunshine (szavanna): yay good
Sunshine (szavanna): Zenji you can too?
Bertram Jacobus: i loove that song ! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): need headset
Sunshine (szavanna): ah
Sunshine (szavanna): kk
Sunshine (szavanna): Paco De Lucia
Zen (zen.arado): hear now
Zen (zen.arado): nice
Sunshine (szavanna): yay
Sunshine (szavanna): I found it in other Sunji's inventory
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜° I was looking for my wisdom gate
Sunshine (szavanna): to show Liz
Sunshine (szavanna): a japanese gate thing
Sunshine (szavanna): and found this
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜°
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Asifa
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Asifa
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Asifa (aislay): Hi folks
Bertram Jacobus: hi there asifa :-)
Sunshine (szavanna): playing some latin guitar
Sunshine (szavanna): how are you?
Asifa (aislay): oh nice
Zen (zen.arado): Sunji is playing Paco de Lucia for us
Asifa (aislay): I'm fine
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe well not me
Asifa (aislay): just dropped in to say hi
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I think you guessed who it is Sunji :)
Asifa (aislay): but i fear i will have to go in a few
Sunshine (szavanna): yes :)
Asifa (aislay): brb
Sunshine (szavanna): I must go also - promised to build art space at the commune
Zen (zen.arado): kk
Zen (zen.arado): ty for coming
Zen (zen.arado): I need to go too and get dinner
Sunshine (szavanna): take care all great to see everyone
Sunshine (szavanna): so you are still Wed 7am - good to know

Sunshine (szavanna): see u all soon :)) Happy Mayday
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Bertram Jacobus: bye to all leaving avatars ! ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): byee Sunji
Asifa (aislay): back
Zen (zen.arado): wb Asifa
Zen (zen.arado): nice name
Zen (zen.arado): sounds muslim

Islam:

Asifa (aislay): yes I am Muslim now
Asifa (aislay): (in SL)
Zen (zen.arado): ah I see
Bertram Jacobus: interesting ...
Asifa (aislay): Might get some insights into it all
Zen (zen.arado): you better read the Koran
Bertram Jacobus: so you can even try out how it feels to be a muslim in sl ! - how DOES it feel asifa ? :-)
Asifa (aislay): but really i'm not online much these dyas
Asifa (aislay): days
Asifa (aislay): well initially guys respect me more
Zen (zen.arado): I have a muslim friend in SL
Zen (zen.arado): I help him with an English class
Asifa (aislay): /me listens
Zen (zen.arado): he is from Morocco
Zen (zen.arado): but lives in Paris
Asifa (aislay): i see
Zen (zen.arado): nice guy
Asifa (aislay): I think you mentioned him
Zen (zen.arado): he showed me a mosque in SL
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Bertram Jacobus: how long do you know him already zen ?
Asifa (aislay): I am influenced by the lady you gave the laptop too
Zen (zen.arado): maybe two years
Bertram Jacobus: cool
Zen (zen.arado): he taught me French at the start
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. great ! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): he speaks very good English
Zen (zen.arado): I just help a bit with idioms and pronunciation
Asifa (aislay): I am helping a Somalian lady with her english
Zen (zen.arado): plenty of English classes in SL
Bertram Jacobus: where do you come from asifa ?
Zen (zen.arado): Virtlantis
Asifa (aislay): lol

Fictitious persons:

Asifa (aislay): I'm not a real person in the usual sense
Bertram Jacobus: sry ? ;-)
Asifa (aislay): I'm a ficticious character
Bertram Jacobus: hmmm ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): so am I
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Asifa (aislay): so is he
Asifa (aislay): lol
Asifa (aislay): Some are more ficticious than others, no
Zen (zen.arado): hmm
Zen (zen.arado): all just stories
Asifa (aislay): well with second life there can be two layers of 'self'
Bertram Jacobus: yes : i use to combine more my offline and my online lifes so to say
Bertram Jacobus: bring them together in a way
Zen (zen.arado): longer I am in here I see less and less difference
Bertram Jacobus: have many links between them, yes
Zen (zen.arado): it's just an extension of RL
Asifa (aislay): I am less like my rl self in second life - in this incarnation anyway
Bertram Jacobus: met not only few people from the net in the last 12, 13 years ...
Zen (zen.arado): maybe your RL sef is less like you ?
Asifa (aislay): I think it depends on the time you spend in second life
Bertram Jacobus: yes : we can play with all that - how ever we like - what a luxory situation !
Asifa (aislay): when i was in here the lot...
Asifa (aislay): the 'I' in here
Asifa (aislay): had experiences and a life
Bertram Jacobus: i nearly never was in here a lot ...
Asifa (aislay): and was really quite real
Asifa (aislay): My body here was on the the 5 agregates
Asifa (aislay): maybe more than one
Zen (zen.arado): it's largely the way you think about it
Asifa (aislay): maybe 4 of them
Asifa (aislay): lol
Bertram Jacobus: the buddhistic view ? five aggregates ?
Asifa (aislay): Well I am buddhist in RL
Bertram Jacobus: i see ... :-)
Asifa (aislay): If you live in here and have experiences and relationships
Bertram Jacobus: so that was what you meant : the buddhistic explanations like five aggregates ... (?)
Asifa (aislay): then you become real here
Asifa (aislay): and you have a history and memories exclusive to here
Bertram Jacobus: i am real everywhere - as far as we like to call that real ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): does that apply to 'RL' too I wonder?
Zen (zen.arado): sometimes I have more interaction with pepl in here than in RL
Asifa (aislay): nods
Asifa (aislay): It might be an interesting thing to count the number of friends here
Bertram Jacobus: so my fisr words in my profile say exactly that : sl and fl are both rl (second life and first life are both real lifes)
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Asifa (aislay): and count the number of friends in RL and in relation to the time you spend seeing them
Zen (zen.arado): I spend far more time with SL than RL friends
Asifa (aislay): /me smiles
Bertram Jacobus: everybody should know meanwhile : it´s very important to hold or find the balance between net life and offline life !
Asifa (aislay): Amen!
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Bertram Jacobus: but for sure, that differs between and / or for the various people ...
Zen (zen.arado): you find RL gets too addictive :)
Asifa (aislay): lol
Asifa (aislay): I have that post retreat feeling at the minute
Asifa (aislay): so its pretty cool for a few days
Asifa (aislay): lol
Bertram Jacobus: yes : being able to die calm and clear is not given to everybody as it seems ... ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): that strenghtens your Zen practice
Zen (zen.arado): and liking for Zen
Asifa (aislay): nods
Zen (zen.arado): the old story about the coals
Bertram Jacobus: i´m playing here mostly - play as being ... ! :-)
Asifa (aislay): me to
Asifa (aislay): too
Zen (zen.arado): if a piece of coal falls out of the fire it goes out
Bertram Jacobus: oh
Bertram Jacobus: ah
Asifa (aislay): phone...
Bertram Jacobus: what shall that metapher say zen pls ?
Zen (zen.arado): that you need a sangha Bert
Bertram Jacobus: ah ! okay ... ty :-)
Zen (zen.arado): to strengthen your practice
Zen (zen.arado): with others
Bertram Jacobus: yes. that can help very much ! *agree so far* :-)
Zen (zen.arado): same reason peoople go to church
Bertram Jacobus: but dears - enough chat so far for me - i´ll leave this friendly place now ...
Zen (zen.arado): kk ty for coming Bert
Asifa (aislay): ok
Asifa (aislay): back
Zen (zen.arado): wb
Asifa (aislay): have a good evening
Zen (zen.arado): I better go too
Asifa (aislay): ok
Bertram Jacobus: ty very much for the conversation and - may all beings be happy pls ! :-)
Asifa (aislay): see you later maybe