2013.05.06 19:00 – A chocolate universe, or not?

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

I came in early and found a conversation already happening

Malinson Resident: What have you seen in this wider view?
Malinson Resident: hi Aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello
DR42 Resident thinking
Aphrodite Macbain: Have you both been here before?
DR42 Resident: First time.
Malinson Resident: I drop in from time to time....on my way some where.
Aphrodite Macbain: welcome
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you know that the conversations here are recorded and posted in a wiki?
DR42 Resident: I think it has helped me the most is understanding the ideas of others, even if I do not agree with them. And, in some part, that feeding into compassion.
Aphrodite Macbain: and is that OK with you?
DR42 Resident: Yes, I know.
Aphrodite Macbain: Malinson?
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you ok with being recorded?
--BELL--
Malinson Resident: have there been any ideas that you have come to agree on because of this wider view than you would have otherwise not have?
DR42 Resident: I think possible not, that I would have changed my mind eventually, but it certainly helped speed up the process.
Malinson Resident: i see...

Aphrodite Macbain: Excuse me

DR42 Resident: It has mostly helped in seeing issues or problems from multiple sides at once, even if I do not agree with them.
DR42 Resident: And that, has fed into compassion.

Aphrodite Macbain: I don’t want to interrupt but it is my responsibility to determine whether you want to be recorded or not
DR42 Resident: I have no problem with being recorded.
Malinson Resident: I have no problem with being recorded.

Aphrodite Macbain: OK great, thanks
Malinson Resident: What particular problem have you been able to see better than before?
Malinson Resident: Goffaq Yussef.??
DR42 Resident: That is a very broad question. It has helped me in life, every day. With many things each day.
Malinson Resident: Okay, is there an example you can provide where it has helped where you would have had issues without this education?

Aphrodite Macbain: I'm interested in what you're discussing - can you explain a bit?

DR42 Resident: It has helped me have more compassion for others.
DR42 Resident: I think this all started with my liking philosophy and taking it as a minor at University.
Malinson Resident: Interesting word this compassion....I have often wondered if compassion is freely given just as much from an ignorant than an sophisticate.
Malinson Resident: I would say that some of the most loving people I have ever met were quite uneducated.
DR42 Resident: Some times it is most difficult to have compassion for yourself.
Aphrodite Macbain: why would it not be?
Malinson Resident: compassion for myself? What does that mean exactly?
DR42 Resident: There is a difference between being loving and compassion.
DR42 Resident: Would you have compassion for the Marathon bombers?
Malinson Resident: I know not what they are.
Malinson Resident: Is that a football team?
Aphrodite Macbain: Boston Marathon
Malinson Resident: I am not sports fan

Malinson Resident: hi san
Santoshima Resident: Malinson, greetings
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey San
Malinson Resident: Why would you show compassion?
DR42 Resident: ηαмαѕтє
Santoshima Resident: you are looking round today
Santoshima Resident: greetings maude
Santoshima Resident: you, malinson, are looking round today ... sorry i can't type
Malinson Resident: This thing is not me...I am behind the keybord.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: round not around
Santoshima Resident: go it
Santoshima Resident: your representative
Malinson Resident: no, it represents me not.
Santoshima Resident: whatever
Santoshima Resident: {shhh}
Malinson Resident: zzzzzzzz

Aphrodite Macbain (to San): I think they have been talking about compassion - I'm not sure
Malinson Resident: possibly
Santoshima Resident: who?
Santoshima Resident: you?
Malinson Resident: me?
Aphrodite Macbain: the ball and the yellow T shirt
Santoshima Resident: ah
Malinson Resident: sounds almost---storybook
Aphrodite Macbain: bounces Malinson
DR42 Resident: The Yellow shirt is from StandingOnTheSideOfLove.org
Malinson Resident: I see, I was about to say that all we need is a pair of red shorts to complete the ensemble.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah love and compassion.
Aphrodite Macbain: to be practiced as well as preached
Malinson Resident: I see....for whose sake?
Aphrodite Macbain: for whomever comes into contact with us
Malinson Resident: m'kay
Malinson Resident: you agree yellow shirt?
Aphrodite Macbain: sort of what we try and do around this fountain
Aphrodite Macbain: consider other's feelings, bring people into the conversation, listen to their ideas
Malinson Resident: I never once tried to care abut someone...either I did or didn't
Aphrodite Macbain: how sad
Santoshima Resident: did or didn't what?
DR42 Resident: That sounds so isolating.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, sad
Santoshima Resident: did or didn't ... what?? care?
Aphrodite Macbain: to care I guess
Malinson Resident: care of course....love even on a compassionate level cannot be forced....I don't believe that one who tries to care about someone truly does inside.
Santoshima Resident: sentence didn't make sense
Santoshima Resident: ah, ok ty
Aphrodite Macbain: compassion is more doable than love
Santoshima Resident: doable?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: having compassion is easier than loving
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Santoshima Resident: want to see a video?
Aphrodite Macbain: I can have compassion with a disenchanted bomber
Aphrodite Macbain: but not agree with their course of action
Santoshima Resident: will post link and you can watch at your leisure
DR42 Resident: Same, and that is how I feel.
Santoshima Resident: http://vimeo.com/62831314

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks san/ what is it?
DR42 Resident: I can hate the action but still care about the person.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- that's what I meant
Malinson Resident: Why do you care?
Aphrodite Macbain: they are another sentient being in the world in which I live
Santoshima Resident: amazing woman, my favorite water dakini
Aphrodite Macbain: I am connected to them
Malinson Resident: So, you care because you are connected to them?
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll have a quick look
Santoshima Resident: as you like
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. They are part of my world
Malinson Resident: Would you care for beings that are not connected to you?
DR42 Resident: We are all part of an interconnected universe.
Malinson Resident: I am not the universe.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes I might Malinson - even plants
Aphrodite Macbain: you are part of it though
Malinson Resident: I see, so this compassion is given not just because of this connection.
Malinson Resident: I cannot be a 'part' of something I am not
Aphrodite Macbain: you are not part of the universe?
Aphrodite Macbain: you are not among other sentient beings?
Malinson Resident: I know I am not.
Aphrodite Macbain: how?
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps you aren't sentient
--BELL--
Malinson Resident: I know I am not because I do not act in accord to the universe's fair nor does the universe's fair define mine. We are two incongruent things.
Aphrodite Macbain: please keep 90 sec of silence
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks
Aphrodite Macbain: fair?
Santoshima Resident: shrugs
Aphrodite Macbain: universe's fair? as in a trade fair?
Malinson Resident: It means that neither defines the other.
Santoshima Resident: shrugs
Malinson Resident: not quite, the word has other applications
Aphrodite Macbain: you are part of a larger defined whole whether you consider you are or not
Malinson Resident: No, that would be factually incorrect.
Aphrodite Macbain: how so?
Malinson Resident: Because I am not a bolt or a tire so designed in function for the purpose of a car. I am a free agent in that my purpose is of my own choice...I therefore cannot be a 'part' of that which I do not identify. As of late, I do not identify myself as being 'universe'
Aphrodite Macbain: we speak a different language but I recognize you as part of my universe
Malinson Resident: What you recognise me to be in no way defines who I am.
Santoshima Resident: what difference do either positions make?
Aphrodite Macbain: I define you that way and therefore you are part of my universe
Malinson Resident: One walks the objective realm of reality and the other does not.
Aphrodite Macbain: The difference is our responsibility to others
Malinson Resident: I do not presume to tell you who you are so kindly reframe from telling me who I am.
Aphrodite Macbain: you are not unique, alone or isolated. You are in relation to others
Santoshima Resident: a blue ball floating in a wide ocean
DR42 Resident: I can make you part of my universe without telling you who or what you are.
Aphrodite Macbain: that is fine with me
Aphrodite Macbain: I am happy to be part of your universe
Malinson Resident: Being a part of something you define is telling me who I am through a provisional identity. I do not identify myself as being a part of the universe so kindly reframe from telling me that I am.
Aphrodite Macbain: the universe of SL among others
Malinson Resident: That 'universe' has nothing to do with us nor does it define us in any way.

Korel Laloix: Heya
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
Aphrodite Macbain: welcome
Korel Laloix smiles
DR42 Resident: Telling me that I cannot have you as part of my universe makes me part of your universe.
Santoshima Resident: korel, in the nick of time
Korel Laloix: Everyone leaving?... smiles
Malinson Resident: Your 'universe' is not something I represent nor represents me.
Aphrodite Macbain: Korel - what universe do you live in?
Santoshima Resident: not yet dear
Santoshima Resident: glad you are here
Korel Laloix: Universe is an English term that I have not really been able to pin down.
Aphrodite Macbain: Malison is shunning us from his universe
Korel Laloix: That might be a good thing.. smiles
Malinson Resident: I don't have a 'universe'
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Kori, perhaps!
DR42 Resident: But he cannot shun us unless we are part of it.
Korel Laloix: I like the one I am in as it has Chocolate.
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: If we in different universes though, as we are here together, the Vin diagram of both must have some overlap in it.
Malinson Resident: There is no 'universe here it's just us.
Korel Laloix: Ten second chat lag for me, maybe my universe is just ten seconds later than SLs.
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of a chocolate universe
Santoshima Resident: mmm
Aphrodite Macbain: that bounces in every 10 seconds
Korel Laloix: What does the word mean to you Malinson?
Aphrodite Macbain: and bounces out again
Korel Laloix: There are lots of words in English that mean so much they can mean so little.
Korel Laloix: universe is one.
Korel Laloix: Love is another... so many uses.
Aphrodite Macbain: by definition
Malinson Resident: One of what?
Aphrodite Macbain: Uni - verse
Korel Laloix: A word that has so many uses that is it nearly useless.
Aphrodite Macbain:

“u·ni·verse /ˈyo͞onəˌvərs/ Noun All existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in... A particular sphere of activity, interest, or experience.”

Google

Korel Laloix: So it means a collection of anything of any size of any duration.
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: So I can pretty much use the words anyway i want to really.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: except not with Malinson
Malinson Resident: looking at a collection of objects and inventing a word that describes that collection in no way means that the collection itself is a unified thing.
Korel Laloix: I am not sure you can opt out of something that is all inclusive though.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods, exactly my point
Aphrodite Macbain: It is illogical, no?
Korel Laloix smiles
Korel Laloix: Agreed, making a label does not make the label true.
Aphrodite Macbain: we were supposed to be talking about imaginative play - I think we've been doing that in a way
Aphrodite Macbain: batting the ball around
Korel Laloix: I can imagine quite a few things with a chocolate universe and Reeba... smiles
Malinson Resident: I'll leave that to you
Aphrodite Macbain: Reeba smiles :-)
Santoshima Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: aph smiles back
Korel Laloix: But then again, we groups things as an adaptation mechanism.
Aphrodite Macbain: anyway - I feel connected to sentient beings in my universe and try to have compassion with them which is how this started
Korel Laloix: But the groups we make are not always accurate.
Korel Laloix: Compassion is good.
Aphrodite Macbain: The fact that someone feels differently does not change my attitude
Korel Laloix: But it is difficult to have compassion for some people.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. It certainly is. But it's a goal, an end
DR42 Resident: Ah, but can you understand the "opposing" viewpoint?
Aphrodite Macbain: I try to
Korel Laloix: opposing viewpoint to what?
Malinson Resident: Believing you are a citizen of a state does not make it so.
Malinson Resident: just fantasy
Aphrodite Macbain: and not believing doesn’t make it not so
Aphrodite Macbain: you could be in denial
Korel Laloix: Unfortunately we all have that tendency though... being in a state of denial.
Malinson Resident: It is a two sided deal, one an agent the other the principle. When you have an established connection of due representation, then you have your union.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: I didn’t ask you to be part of my universe
Korel Laloix: Don't feel bad though, I did not get an invite either... smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Malinson Resident: Neither did this universe. I cannot be a 'part' of that which does not represent me nor me it.

Aphrodite Macbain: time to eat dinner
Aphrodite Macbain: whispers "bye"
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Aphrodite Macbain: great conversation
Korel Laloix: Ah, but it does represent you and you cannot opt out, even with linguistics.
DR42 Resident: Time for me to get some sleep. It has been quite interesting.
Korel Laloix: Thanks for the chat... off to bed.. that final today fried my brain.
Malinson Resident: what facts do you rely on that it represents me?
Korel Laloix: You are here.
Korel Laloix: Simple.
Malinson Resident: That means nothing
Korel Laloix: It means everything... there is a subtle difference I think.
Malinson Resident: What are you saying?
Korel Laloix: Not sure how to explain that in English.. especially when I am this tired.
Korel Laloix: But the fact that you are here does mean something.
Malinson Resident: I means that I am here.
Malinson Resident: so, I have no idea what you are implying
Korel Laloix: OK... something to think about then.
Korel Laloix: Take care..
Malinson Resident: whatever
Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i