2012.01.15 13:00 - Just what came up

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Korel, Wol
Wol Euler: hello aph, korel
Korel Laloix: Bozho
Korel Laloix: Anyone want to join me up here?
Wol Euler is feeling too lazy :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Looks a little precarious.
Wol Euler: but thanks for the offer
Aphrodite Macbain: You are like my cats Korel
Aphrodite Macbain: they like to have a good view of things
Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
Aphrodite Macbain: Aggers. Hellow
Agatha Macbeth: Hellow Aph [grin]
Korel Laloix: The cat that has us likes to have a good view of my lap.
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Wol Euler: heheh
Korel Laloix: Which I don't mind as he is very warm and purrs a lot.
Wol Euler: it's always a tricky question with cats, who own whom
Agatha Macbeth: what's it like up there?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Stevenaia, Hiya Samúð
Korel Laloix: Cool.
Agatha Macbeth: Nice :p
Aphrodite Macbain: yup - I changed. Bruce is now taking my saturday session
Agatha Macbeth: Nothin like being above it all
Aphrodite Macbain: What's new everyone?
Wol Euler: hello sam
Korel Laloix: Wish I could be like this RL.

oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
oO0Oo Resident: /▌
oO0Oo Resident: / \
Agatha Macbeth: Hi 0 [poke]
oO0Oo Resident: :) Aggers
Aphrodite Macbain: brb. Cat’s going crazy
stevenaia Michinaga: Waves to Samúð

Agatha Macbeth: The cat's going crazy?
Aphrodite Macbain: She's discovered she can open the cat treats

Agatha Macbeth: The things a cat will do to get fed eh?

Korel Laloix: The things I will do to get coffee and chocolate... smiles

AAgatha Macbeth: come on in Liz :) Lady in red
Agatha Macbeth: Oh wow
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sam, Stevenaia, Agatha, Wol, Aphrodite, Korel :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
Aphrodite Macbain: superwoman...
Wol Euler smiles.

Eliza Madrigal: there was a word used in the last presentation that I missed due to bad audio... had to do with combining soldier and dandy....
Eliza Madrigal: he said it was his favorite term and then to me it sounded like blurble blurble
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I remember that bit
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Don't remember what he said tho :(
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: I should have asked but got booted off
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Something-warrior?
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose that can be the main problem of having voice chat- it's not recorded
Agatha Macbeth: I'll take a recorder in next time :)
Wol Euler: don't remember that, perhaps it was before I got there
Eliza Madrigal: yes, voice recorder not too useful in a cafe' either :)
Agatha Macbeth: I remember him saying it, but forgot the punch line!
Eliza Madrigal: anyway, thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Ok, sry
Korel Laloix: What was the joke?
Agatha Macbeth: That's the point K, don't remember!
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Agatha Macbeth: Shows what kind of attention span I have...
Wol Euler: :(
Agatha Macbeth: Oh?

Retreat

Aphrodite Macbain: Too bad not many people are going to be able to attend the retreat in June
Wol Euler: yes, I got (and replied to) Eliza's mail
Eliza Madrigal: seems that way Aphrodite just posted the morning session...
Agatha Macbeth looks
Aphrodite Macbain: Only 3 people so far - Zen, Pema and Wol
Wol Euler: seems to be three of us counting Zen (the local organizer)
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: yes can he do it on his own I wonder?

Telling jokes

Korel Laloix: Can you name two subjects and a verb in the joke?
Wol Euler: (not actually a joke, Korel, just a metaphor for Eliza's remembering the setting-up but not the ending)
Korel Laloix: OH OK..
Wol Euler: brb
Aphrodite Macbain: A rabbi and a priest were rowing a boat...
Aphrodite Macbain: that's the beginning of many jokes
Korel Laloix: If I try, I can remember like three jokes.
Korel Laloix: But it takes a while.
Aphrodite Macbain: If I remember I joke, I have a hard time telling it. My
Aphrodite Macbain: timing
Aphrodite Macbain: is
Aphrodite Macbain: off
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: I love to hear jokes told badly
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder if telling a joke or a story is a skill we are born with
Eliza Madrigal: some do seem naturally good at it
Aphrodite Macbain: It may also have to do with tone of voice, speed, and um... good memory
Eliza Madrigal: some ability to pace well

Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Arch
Bertram Jacobus: hi everybody :-)
Wol Euler: hello bert, arch
oO0Oo Resident: Hey!
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to see so many of us. I've been away for a while and have missed you
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch :)
Archmage Atlantis: Blessings to all
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Berti and Arch

Archmage Atlantis: Chester is disturbed
Archmage Atlantis: So we are here seeking peace
Aphrodite Macbain: Disturbed? How?
Archmage Atlantis: If I knew, I could calm him
Bertram Jacobus: who or what is chester, please ?
Korel Laloix: Actually, I come here specifically not look for peace.
Bertram Jacobus: oops - yes aggers lol
Archmage Atlantis: There is something in the atmosphere
Aphrodite Macbain sniffs the air

Korel Laloix: I want to hear new things that make my mind work, not relax.
Archmage Atlantis: That is a good start, Korel
Archmage Atlantis: My mind woks constantly
Agatha Macbeth: Mine too unfortunately
Archmage Atlantis: In the beginning we became
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe turning off your mind lets you see more
Aphrodite Macbain: or see differently
Archmage Atlantis: Listening to music that is from a disturbed time
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Korel Laloix: Not sure about more; seeing, like listening, has to be active to really be effective.
Agatha Macbeth: I know that feeling Arch
Korel Laloix: But maybe seeing differently.

stevenaia Michinaga: off to RL...bye

--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Stevie
Eliza Madrigal: bye Stevenaia, say hello for me
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Stevenaia

Aphrodite Macbain: Bert, are you leading a meditation today at 2?
Bertram Jacobus: yes aph - i´ll do so (the meditation session at 2) ... sry, i was distracted ...
Aphrodite Macbain: np. thanks bertram
Wol Euler: :(
Korel Laloix: Where at for the meditation?
Aphrodite Macbain: in Perfect Paradise
Korel Laloix: OH OK. Probably won't happen today, but might make it some time.
Bertram Jacobus: i´ll write a group note ... with lm attached ...
Archmage Atlantis: Could we speak about Perfect Paradise

Archmage Atlantis: Cause the 2 founders are interesting ppl

Mothers

Archmage Atlantis: My dear mother left me when I was quite young. She said lord have mercy on her wicked son

Aphrodite Macbain: mothers are powerful beings
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Aphrodite Macbain: they have more power than most- especially to their kids
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Archmage Atlantis: There is nothing to be sorry about
Korel Laloix: Still can't figure out if my mother hated me so much, why did she just not give me up for adoption.

Aphrodite Macbain: are you sure your mother hated you korel?
Korel Laloix: Without a doubt.
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler: that
Aphrodite Macbain: :-(
Wol Euler: that's a sad thing to have to say
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eliza Madrigal: does it help to see her as having an illness Korel?
Aphrodite Macbain:    In a course I'm taking, I'm learning how the first years of a child's life leave lasting impressions the rest of their life.
Wol Euler nods.
Archmage Atlantis: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Trauma is something biological as well as psychological.
Archmage Atlantis: there is a template formed in the first 2 or 3 years
Korel Laloix: My mom is clearly nuts.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: that simplifies things...
Korel Laloix: And yes it does, help. My only soft spot for her is that for her to have treated me like she did, she must have had a bad time of it as a little girl as well.
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, we repeat our own experienceof others - a sort of mirroring
Eliza Madrigal: if you go into that deeply it may change everything, not boundaries with her but give you some rest
Wol Euler nods.
Archmage Atlantis: My mom was strong, she raise her sisters and brothers,
Archmage Atlantis: Yet the troubles my dad faced, came down to me
Aphrodite Macbain wonders how these legacies can be undone
Aphrodite Macbain: How can the principles of PaB contribute?
Archmage Atlantis: probably cannot be
Korel Laloix: One of the reasons I can't see myself ever having babies.
Archmage Atlantis: Aph, we find strength
Aphrodite Macbain: Can we drop the effects of trauma?
Korel Laloix: I don’t want to pass this on... or am afraid of it.
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: what specifically would you be passing on Korel?
Archmage Atlantis: I will speak for how I see Korel
Korel Laloix: Just afraid I would... even when people know the risks, they still tend to pass it down.
Archmage Atlantis: She would pass on the strength to look at what has happened
Archmage Atlantis: To sit in a circle
Archmage Atlantis: and just simply be.
Korel Laloix: Could be, but a have a fear.
Korel Laloix: Maybe I will work that out, maybe I won't.
Aphrodite Macbain: Having the strength to look at what has happened must be a gift
Aphrodite Macbain: or something we can develop with practice.
Korel Laloix: Or an act of desperation.
Wol Euler: or all of the above

Archmage Atlantis: Wol, u a good girl *chuckle*
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: act of desperation worked for me
Aphrodite Macbain: desperation being the final impetus?

Bertram Jacobus: i am so quiet because i find the topic so serious and i fear to say something wrong with my bad english ... but i thought about that as well : that legacies DO find an end, not only seldom. "Such can life be" i would say, and surroundings, circumstances, as well as work we do by our own can help with it ... i wish the very best for it (!) ...
oO0Oo Resident: Nicely said Bertram
Korel Laloix: Yes, thank you Bertram.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Bertram;
 

Bertram Jacobus: and now i have to leave and prepare the meditation session - as said before : a group notice will come in the next minutes - ty everybody ! ...

Eliza Madrigal: :) bye Bert, ty
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Wol Euler: bye for now, bert
Bertram Jacobus: may all beings be happy, please
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! bert
Aphrodite Macbain: CU soon
Archmage Atlantis: Hasta luego, Bertie
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
oO0Oo Resident: Bye bert
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: We do have some control over our behaviour. We do have a choice. Eliza- when you said an act of desperation worked for you, what did you mean and how did it work -may I ask?
Aphrodite Macbain: Did something change?
Eliza Madrigal: just to say transcendence is possible I suppose... that at some point the cost of holding on to resentment outweighed the benefit
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: but simply that realization isn't enough
Aphrodite Macbain: is it?
Eliza Madrigal: think it starts with aspiration
Eliza Madrigal: being willing to drop for a moment
Eliza Madrigal: then maybe longer
Wol Euler listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Eliza Madrigal: suspend history
Eliza Madrigal: identity
Eliza Madrigal: birth :)
Aphrodite Macbain:!
Eliza Madrigal: once I asked myself if this woman had told me her story, and not been my mom, what would I respond? How would I feel toward her?
Wol Euler: wow
Eliza Madrigal: and once I had a glimpse of a small child, and knew that was her before she'd developed such hardness
Eliza Madrigal: which, is gone now as it turns out
Eliza Madrigal: so, nothing fixed
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Wol Euler: did that glimpse change anything for you, in your relation to her?
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a need to forgive
Eliza Madrigal: and, she was there, whereas my father simply left
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: of course... changed so much
Eliza Madrigal: became an object of meditation actually
Eliza Madrigal: and filled with light
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: not an easy road though, not pretending :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have a lot I hope my kids forgive me for
Aphrodite Macbain: your mother became the object of meditation?
Archmage Atlantis: oy vey, Ches just turned the phone on
Eliza Madrigal: well, the image of her as a small child
Aphrodite Macbain: oh yes- vulnerable and open
Archmage Atlantis: so much for meditation
Eliza Madrigal: years later I dreamed that she and I were opening closets and finding only blankets :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: and that is *true*
Aphrodite Macbain: blankets are good; could have been worse!
Aphrodite Macbain: =nurturing?
Eliza Madrigal: yes in private I'm willing to talk about things but some know I didn't have a cushy childhood :) so, I think the things we talk about here matter a lot
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: It amazes me how many different ways that people find to cope
Aphrodite Macbain wonders who among us thinks they have had a cushy childhood
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Belief in good

Archmage Atlantis: i often wonder if I believe in good
Archmage Atlantis: And I think
Archmage Atlantis: that if I do not believe
Archmage Atlantis: it won't exist
Archmage Atlantis: if that make any sense
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, a lot
Wol Euler: yes, it does
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Wol Euler: it will make a huge difference to your perception of the world you live in :)
Aphrodite Macbain: if we think of the world as a projection of ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think I'm over things but somehow saying all that made me start shivering, so... still some things to work out... maybe the balance of sharing... brb getting coffee

oO0Oo Resident: . everything we see, hear, feel, taste, touch, experience.. even think.. is passed on, in passing when there is hope or fear, it doesn't pass through.. we catch it and hold it, for a time where it comes from, and where it goes is a difficult question to fully answer sometimes we think we have choice. If this, then this. when seeing that all our thoughts, words, and actions are constantly passing, when is it that we are not passing things on? Do we fully realize what we pass? What is passing? Isn't each moment what we have.. to orient our mind to what we may pass in the next?

Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Samuo.  Wonderful. Is that a quote or your words?,
Wol Euler: wow. thank you, sam
oO0Oo Resident: just what came up
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Sam
Korel Laloix: Thanks for that.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thinks: Do we fully realize what we pass?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: so nice.... happy to come back and the bell to read :)
Aphrodite Macbain: come back?
Eliza Madrigal: jaunted to the counter in the cafe' Aph, that's all

Wol Euler: starbucks again, eliza

Eliza Madrigal: uh huh, Wol :)

Blending identities

Archmage Atlantis: There is an essential element about myself that constantly confuses me
Korel Laloix: I think we are all like that.
Archmage Atlantis: I am a gay man, but I am very up in your face man?
Archmage Atlantis: the 2 don't mix
Korel Laloix: What do you mean?
Wol Euler: clearly they mix in you, arch, if you are both :)
Aphrodite Macbain: gay men can't be in your face?
Eliza Madrigal: why not Arch? actually the presentation ahead of this session was sort of about blending of so called contrary identities
Archmage Atlantis: I was born to hunt and defend
Aphrodite Macbain: you are the living proof that they do arch
Aphrodite Macbain: what presentation Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: art history, about Whistler the painter who combined identities from west point, bohemian culture, dandies...
Eliza Madrigal: avatarness in the 1800s
Archmage Atlantis: almost 2 time for pp
Aphrodite Macbain: oh right. Sorry I missed it

Korel Laloix: Have to head back to RL...
Korel Laloix: Thanks for the chat all.
Eliza Madrigal: K Korel, hugs
Archmage Atlantis: me too, k
Korel Laloix: ciao all.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Korel, Arch
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for sharing all that.
Agatha Macbeth: Bye K take care
Wol Euler: bye korel, thank you

oO0Oo Resident late waves to Korel and Arch

Wol Euler: and thank you too, eliza!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eliza. You are someone who not only has things to say but can say them well!
Eliza Madrigal: that's kind, am glad if it helps.... timing has a lot to do with things, maybe just wishing to forgive is enough
Wol Euler: it’s a very good start, and probably necessary
Wol Euler: IMHO
Aphrodite Macbain: I still have strong doubts about being able to make changes to my attitudes, so it's reassuring to hear that people have done it.
Eliza Madrigal: amazing thing and very possible
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Wol Euler smiles.

Cats again

Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you. Not only is it sunny but I am hearing positive things, and my cat is curled up beguilingly in front of me
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Aphrodite Macbain grins
Eliza Madrigal: cats make great confidantes
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: indeed. They always forgive you and look beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: remember a neighbor who actually took her cat on walks without a leash...
Eliza Madrigal: that's something thought impossible too, giggles
Aphrodite Macbain tries to imagine doing that with hers, and can't
Wol Euler: when I lived in London, the neighbours had a cat that would climb onto your shoulders if you sat, and ride around on you as you walked
Eliza Madrigal: ohhh :))
Aphrodite Macbain: lol- like a parrot
Wol Euler: yeah
Agatha Macbeth: Like Faenik :p
Wol Euler: exactly :) a RL shoulder pet
Aphrodite Macbain: or Ping
Agatha Macbeth: Mm yes
Aphrodite Macbain: (or was it Pong?)

Berti time

Eliza Madrigal: are we heading to meditation? :)
Wol Euler: oh yes!
oO0Oo Resident: why not?
Wol Euler: bye listener! bye whoever stays, if there is anyone
Agatha Macbeth: Ah Berti time :)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. See you there I hope!
oO0Oo Resident: thanks
Agatha Macbeth waves
oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
oO0Oo Resident: /▌
oO0Oo Resident: / \
Eliza Madrigal: fun to meditate in a public cafe