The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: Ho PAradise
stevenaia Michinaga: hi
Paradise Tennant: hiya stev .. seem to have left my ruffles at the .. tp
Paradise Tennant: smiles how are you
stevenaia Michinaga: I am good, a long busy day, doing laundry now :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles clean clothes always good
stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for you to rezz to see about those ruffles
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Multiverse
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Steve, and Para,
Paradise Tennant: hiya multi
stevenaia Michinaga: good to see you again
Multiverse1 Resident: I finished laundry about 3 mins ago
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, good, come do mine
Multiverse1 Resident: teleport
Multiverse1 Resident: notice something, 1st time in a while here
stevenaia Michinaga: snow?
Multiverse1 Resident: boxy box is invisible
Multiverse1 Resident: is it snowing here?
stevenaia Michinaga: seems boxes come and boxes go
Multiverse1 Resident: as do many shapes
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, we must be just outside of Seattle
Multiverse1 Resident: oh, not the best in climate this day
Multiverse1 Resident: windy also?
stevenaia Michinaga: no idea, I am on the other coast, just saw the news, seems they are not used to snow there
Multiverse1 Resident: I am in NH, 28 was the high it will be 5 degrees when I leave for work
Multiverse1 Resident: yes, people sledding down the streets having a blast, aside from the accidents, etc.
Paradise Tennant: smiles snow can be so locely
Multiverse1 Resident: ir looks so pure when it 1st falls
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, you can always dress for snow
stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Ewan
Multiverse1 Resident: It is the winds which I tend to dislike
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Ewan
Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan :)

--BELL--

Ewan Bonham: Hello..
stevenaia Michinaga: I love invisible things that have such an influence on us, wind, time,temperature
stevenaia Michinaga: thoughts
Paradise Tennant: smiles our invisible :) friends :)
stevenaia Michinaga: things we feel in so many ways but cannot see
Ewan Bonham: And yet the heart sees them..
Multiverse1 Resident: we could not survive without them
Multiverse1 Resident: how many invisible things can't we see even
stevenaia Michinaga: even nothing can affect you in so many ways
Ewan Bonham: If we look without the eyes, quite a bit..
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to observerm
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi observerm, welcome once again.
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya observerm .. so nice to see you would you like to sit with us :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, come sit
stevenaia Michinaga: (if you want)
Multiverse1 Resident: So how do these invisible things, effect us compared to "the visible" things then?
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes hatred feels like being clobbered with a bat, so I would say it depends, and love feels like a feather pillow
Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
Paradise Tennant: our thoughts are invisible they have such a powerful impact
stevenaia Michinaga: I would say invible thing can be quite intense, sometimes better since they can be unquantifiable and infinitly more powerful
Ewan Bonham: Yes..
Multiverse1 Resident: To me sitting here facing northwesterly z axis , spun counter-clockwise could not "see" observerm when ( the enitity observerm ) entered you and Paras view Steve. He was at that momment until sitting, " invisible" to me.
stevenaia Michinaga: you can deflect a bat, but love goes through your soul
Ewan Bonham: Sorry folks...have to go...will join you later
Paradise Tennant: oooooo what a phrase .. love goes through your soul :)
Multiverse1 Resident: Bye Ewan
Paradise Tennant: nite nite ewan :)
stevenaia Michinaga: observerm, there a seat for tinys next to Paradise
Multiverse1 Resident: so love and the soul are invisible, we have that
stevenaia Michinaga: if you are feeling a bit consumed by the pillow
Multiverse1 Resident: is light invisible?
stevenaia Michinaga: it just illuminate what it touches
Multiverse1 Resident: yes, was thinking that
Multiverse1 Resident: so maybe love is visible to the soul, then
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles at observrm
stevenaia Michinaga: looks comfy there
Paradise Tennant: smiles and scratches observerm's ear :)
Multiverse1 Resident: and cuddly too!
stevenaia Michinaga: so much is invisible and so much is here and can be unseen, like touch
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Samud
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya sam :)
stevenaia Michinaga: let's think about those invisible things during the next bell and see where it takes us
Multiverse1 Resident: so what is invisible to part of ourselves, is visible to another part. I'm trying to visualize this now.

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: what did you find in there Multiverse
Paradise Tennant: we are talking of the invisible things :)
Multiverse1 Resident: Was feeling how noseeing, or being completely in the dark, of my visual world. I could still see things that yet I cannot descibe
stevenaia Michinaga: invisible thng that have great infuence
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Stevenaia, Paradise, Multi, observerm. Good to see everyone. (ty Paradise ~ topic)
Multiverse1 Resident: nor will I ever be able to create a picture of them, they are formless, yet have shape. But not in the 3 or 4 dimensional sense
Paradise Tennant: kind of likes the formless :)
stevenaia Michinaga: they have a place in noplace
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lawrence
stevenaia Michinaga: or everyplace
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Samuo, Lawrence
Paradise Tennant: hiya lawrence :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: hi.
Multiverse1 Resident: So then they are between places, thus invisible
stevenaia Michinaga: how do you measure the unmeasureable
stevenaia Michinaga: form the formless
Lawrence Vyceratops: whatcha guys talkin' 'bout?
stevenaia Michinaga: invisible things
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Lawrence
Multiverse1 Resident: every thing has it's mearsure only when one sees it has quantity
stevenaia Michinaga: somethings are diminished when measured
Multiverse1 Resident: how many levels of " love"
Lawrence Vyceratops: hi
stevenaia Michinaga: remember trying to discribe how much you love a child.... "This Much"... but we know its more
oO0Oo Resident: :)
oO0Oo Resident: \ o / This much!
Multiverse1 Resident: so it is seen as quanifyable. It has substance and can bee seen with "The minds Eye"
Lawrence Vyceratops: what is seen?
Paradise Tennant: smiles liked stev's pharse earlier .. " love goes through your soul"
Lawrence Vyceratops: i mean, what are you guys talking about?
Multiverse1 Resident: the invisible love
Multiverse1 Resident: something tangible, yet not of substance
Paradise Tennant: lol not sure we really know lawrence but somehow there is usually a feeling of comfort in it :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: oh, the topic is love?
Multiverse1 Resident: if you like
stevenaia Michinaga: no topic is invisible things that influence us
Lawrence Vyceratops: are we trying to see what love is?
Multiverse1 Resident: can it be seen , Lawrence?
Lawrence Vyceratops: i don't know. have we determined that? i just got here. :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: do we know what love is?
stevenaia Michinaga: thinks the things that can't be seens and can't be measured are biger than we can imagine
Multiverse1 Resident: no, we were exploring to see if we could find out
Lawrence Vyceratops: ok
Multiverse1 Resident: ah, Steve, bigger than the things we actually see
stevenaia Michinaga: maybe not see, Multi :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: we use the word "love" a lot. what does it generally mean to us?
Lawrence Vyceratops: we say, "i love this song" or "i love my girlfriend" what do we mean by that?
stevenaia Michinaga: something unmeasurable, and impossible to explain to someone who has none
Lawrence Vyceratops: are we referring to the same love that we are discussing or is that a different love?
Lawrence Vyceratops: before we try to explain, we must recognize
stevenaia Michinaga: nods,a nd feel
stevenaia Michinaga: without words

--BELL--

Lawrence Vyceratops: when we say, "I love this song" what is that love?
Multiverse1 Resident: big things make large impressions on people. I we see a large mountain, or mountain lion, or an elephant, big things "impress" us because of their immensness. So if the love is large, it impresses upon us a greater sense of itself.
Lawrence Vyceratops: is that the love we speak of or another?
stevenaia Michinaga: a great appreciation
oO0Oo Resident: [back in a few minutes ~ excuse me please]
Multiverse1 Resident: so it is seen from within
oO0Oo Resident: afk
stevenaia Michinaga: something so great and invisible can also be so disarming
stevenaia Michinaga: you may not be able to stop a truck, but you can stop a tank with it
Multiverse1 Resident: make "us" seem so small, or almost invisible. The child who has done a misdeed perhaps
Lawrence Vyceratops: i'm not following....
stevenaia Michinaga: which part?
Lawrence Vyceratops: ummmm anything past thebreak. haha ;)
Multiverse1 Resident: As you said Lawrence, the love of a song, or the love of a girl. Thet have their measure as we place there size in our thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: I was speaking of the power of love can have on physical bojects controled by people
Multiverse1 Resident: hmm, more Steve
Lawrence Vyceratops: oh. i didn[t know if we had determined what love was yet....
Lawrence Vyceratops: is the love of a song the kind of love we are speaking of?
Multiverse1 Resident: I have determined it can be seen, and is measurable
stevenaia Michinaga: defining it's affects is more sensible than defining it
Multiverse1 Resident: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: Multi? you mean it;s bigger than an elephant?
Multiverse1 Resident: each of us has our own definitions
stevenaia Michinaga: and each of those definitione enriches those who hear it
Lawrence Vyceratops: if we have our own definitions that are separate, that means love is personal, not universal?
stevenaia Michinaga: or both
Multiverse1 Resident: In a way, I meant that when you see a 50' human being if it were possible in rl, It would leave a larger impression on you, so the greater the love the more powerful the emotion involved in expressing it.
Lawrence Vyceratops: right, you are speaking of love, which we haven't all seen yet
Multiverse1 Resident: It is universal, as language is to us, yet we use different words and measurements is all
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, but I do not necessarilly belove the larger person had a greater capacity for love
Lawrence Vyceratops: i'm not sure if we are all seeing the same thing
Multiverse1 Resident: hmm, you have not seen love then Lawrence
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe belive, bit blove
stevenaia Michinaga: not belove
Lawrence Vyceratops: you are making conclusions about what we are trying to inspect, to look at.
Multiverse1 Resident: yes Steve, The larger heart within you may though
Multiverse1 Resident: it could be in the small observerm , for example
Lawrence Vyceratops: can we look at it without conclusions?
stevenaia Michinaga: when you "lift the hood up" on a car running on love, what do you see?
Multiverse1 Resident: He may have more love than all of us, for all I know.
Multiverse1 Resident: the impression was what I was driving at. The emotion in love becomes the size of it ,and how we see it.
Lawrence Vyceratops: if love is real, if it is universal to us all, we should all be able to see it clearly, as we are all familiar with pain.
Multiverse1 Resident: The Larger Picture, lol
Multiverse1 Resident: yes we see both love and pain, do we not?
stevenaia Michinaga: lot of " ifs" and "shoulds" in that one, but a nice thought
Lawrence Vyceratops: what do we mean by love?

--BELL--

Multiverse1 Resident: concern, affection, attractiveness, elation, sharing, caring, being held by another, a smile, a special gift, a hug, all of those things rolled in a blanket, then taken on a picnic and feasted upon
stevenaia Michinaga: ...and so much more
Lawrence Vyceratops: so, love is pleasure?
Multiverse1 Resident: and more
Multiverse1 Resident: part of love is pleasure
Lawrence Vyceratops: a pleasure to oneself is love?
Multiverse1 Resident: concern, caring also
Lawrence Vyceratops: what is love wholly?
Multiverse1 Resident: to share anothers pain ,is love
Lawrence Vyceratops: concern and caring about one's pleasure?
stevenaia Michinaga: or anothers
Multiverse1 Resident: not ones self, though one can have love of oneself
Lawrence Vyceratops: what about our motives for caring about another, because it brings a good feeling to ourselves; that is also love?
Lawrence Vyceratops: by that i mean, someone who makes us feel good
Lawrence Vyceratops: caring about them because they give us a good feeling
Lawrence Vyceratops: that is also love?
Multiverse1 Resident: well motives are a different avenue I think
Lawrence Vyceratops: is it?
Multiverse1 Resident: no I think that would be love of oneself, wouldn't it?
stevenaia Michinaga: what if the person receiving the caring does not know what the intions of the givver is, is it any more meaningful or less to the recipiant?
Lawrence Vyceratops: i'm just asking: is it love? is that what we mean by love?
Multiverse1 Resident: To love is motive free , in my definition. and also has to be
Lawrence Vyceratops: so, how does one love, if all those things are not love?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, dificult to "pretend" and have it have the same "value"
Multiverse1 Resident: I can't answer that one. Anyone else?
Lawrence Vyceratops: we all feel pain, hate, greed, anger, pleasure, right?
Multiverse1 Resident: I do
stevenaia Michinaga: getting late for the tough questions :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: those things are universal to us all. if we do something for someone because we understand what it is to be human, to feel pain and sufferng, is that love, if we receive nothing from itj?
Multiverse1 Resident: to me yes
stevenaia Michinaga: that is a good definition
Lawrence Vyceratops: we are simply aware that the person is human, and becaues we are human, we know, we don't have to theorize or conceptualize- we know!
Lawrence Vyceratops: so if we help that person because we are aware, is that real love?
stevenaia Michinaga: but we usually receive something in return, satisfaction
Multiverse1 Resident: hmm, does a dog or cat have this capability?
stevenaia Michinaga: my cat says yes
Lawrence Vyceratops: if we hope for recognition and such, that is the superficial love we spoke of earlier, don't you think?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: or perhaps something a bit less than true love
Lawrence Vyceratops: it is completely different.
Multiverse1 Resident: and on that note I must go, Be well Para, Steve, Observerm and Lawrence. I can feel if not see some of the love. Be well and may we all be loved!
Lawrence Vyceratops: it is another thing. we just call it love. it's pleasure
stevenaia Michinaga: self love, not selfless love
Lawrence Vyceratops: night multi
stevenaia Michinaga: night muli
Lawrence Vyceratops: oops.
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: night, stevenaia
Paradise Tennant: smiles nite nite stev observerm
stevenaia Michinaga: night paradise, bye observerm
Paradise Tennant: think I will say good nite too thanks as always for company and the conversation ..
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: goodnight :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night