2008.11.02 13:00 - Of Libraries, artwork and experiments

This guardian session is in the timeslot in which Maxine Walden has been the guardian.  The comments are hers.

When I got to the Pavilion Quilty, Moon, Wol, Fael and Gaya, and Pema were already there and we greet one another and Quilty notes that this is his first guardian meeting.  It should be mentioned that this among other sessions at certain time slots has been selected to be a guardian meeting to give more time availability for guardians to meet and talk about PaB and related issues.
By the end of the session 8 guardians had visited the Pavilion, a number far greater than usual for this timeslot.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Maxine.
Moon Fargis: hi maxine
Wol Euler: hello maxine
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Quilty Bookmite: I've never made it to a guardian meeting before. Quite exciting. :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Maxine Walden: welcome, Quilty to a guardian meeting!!
Quilty Bookmite: Thank you. :-)
Pema Pera: We had a nice guardian meeting yesterday evening -- seven guardians, quite a large number for a Saturday evening, where usually only a few people show up
Pema Pera: We will never get everyone at the same meeting, but at least anyone should get a chance to show up at one slot or other
Wol Euler nods
Fael Illyar: sounds good :)
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. The previous weekly slot just didn't work for me at all.

Moon and Quilty soon begin to talk about the PaB Library which Moon has been working on intensely for some time.  Quilty mentions taking out a book.

Moon Fargis: bwtw you also could bet more guardans coming thwn you send a notice to the guardians in the pab group..ur just a quick reminder
Moon Fargis: becasue i am always mosten sunken in building and forget everything around me
Moon Fargis: inclusive time :)
Moon Fargis: as i might not be the only one :)
Quilty Bookmite: Lucky I dropped in then. :-)
Moon Fargis: yes ;)
Quilty Bookmite: I just took my first look at the library before the meeting. Wonderful work!
Moon Fargis: _/! \_
Maxine Walden: glad everyone did come who could. Guess we are trying to work out how to fully communicate/remind about these guardian meetings in November
Gaya Ethaniel smiles and nods
Wol Euler: oh, right, still haven't seeen that.

Different questions about the library come up, including requests for more artwork from Moon.

Gaya Ethaniel: did you see the winter gardenscape as mural Quilty?
Maxine Walden: how did taking a library book work?
Quilty Bookmite: I only found out it was there because I took the baloon flight.
Quilty Bookmite: Click on a shelf and you get a note.
Moon Fargis: wel the lib is still under construction asm y tile os very short latley
Moon Fargis: but where able to get atleast the wintergarden and a beginning of a summer view ready :) (as reading room views)
Gaya Ethaniel thinks the library is beautiful...
Maxine Walden: wonderful, Moon!!
Fael Illyar likes the library.
Moon Fargis: so 3 reading rooms would be nearly finished.. i still looking for pictures
Faenik loves wells!
Moon Fargis: so if someone got winter,summer autumn,,. spring or other beutifull pictures.. let me know :)
Maxine Walden: will do.
Moon Fargis: it should be pictures that causes people to..relax..drop their mind
Moon Fargis: while looking at them
Maxine Walden: pictures that aid in the practice toward Being?
Moon Fargis: yep
Quilty Bookmite: I was thinking of chinese brush paintings but I wouldn't know where to get some.
Moon Fargis: google:)
Gaya Ethaniel: google?
Fael Illyar: would that one work for anything?
Moon Fargis: ahh great fael, thanks!
Quilty Bookmite: Of course, but wouldn;t we want to make sure they are legitimate?
Wol Euler: flickr then.
Fael Illyar: here's it for everyone to see :)

Fael rezzes a beautiful photo of Northern Finland for all of us to consider as potential art for the library. 
Adams also joins us.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams.
Wol Euler: hello adams
Wol Euler: select by copyright permissions
Moon Fargis: greets adams
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
Quilty Bookmite: Very nice.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles indeed
Adams Rubble: Wow what a criwd! Hello everyone :)
Adams Rubble: crowd
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Moon Fargis: hmmm

There is some consternation as the photo seems to be upside down, water and sky inverted. Several reactions are expressed.

Fael Illyar: umm, that's upside down :)
Moon Fargis: is it ?:)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Fael Illyar: yep :)
Moon Fargis: becasue you know :)
Fael Illyar: ... I hope :P
Quilty Bookmite: The sky should be lighter than the water.
Maxine Walden: lovely from any perspective...
Wol Euler: leave lit like that, see qho notices.
Moon Fargis: haha
Wol Euler: *who
Moon Fargis: we can make it roating
Wol Euler: it worked for Baselitz...
Fael Illyar: now it's without glow or lighting from the surroundings
Quilty Bookmite: Where is it of?
Fael Illyar: northern Finland.
Moon Fargis: whops script gone mad

The artwork begins to spin around and around...

Moon Fargis: now i cant edit it..
Moon Fargis: hehe
Adams Rubble thinks this is the way the pavilion looked in her first session...spinning
Maxine Walden: haha, Adams
Maxine Walden: art imitates life?
Quilty Bookmite: Not good for a library I think. :-)
Moon Fargis: hhaha
Gaya Ethaniel giggles
Moon Fargis: ok hmm we can take a quick look there when the meeting is over, (ii got landmark when needed)

Trying to turn to Pab considerations I offer a wondering, followed very quickly by a question from Pema.

Maxine Walden: wonder if Pema's presence invigorated some of us coming today
Wol Euler: yes please mmoon
Pema Pera: Quilty, given that this is your first guardian meeting, has there been anything on your mind that you would have liked to bring up in a guardian meeting, anything re: Play as Being, its content, background, future, etc?
Fael Illyar: (speaking of copyright, I just asked the taker of the picture for permission so that's cleared)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes please if I have time.

Quilty considers the question posed and an interesting review discussion of PaB as experiment begins:
 
Quilty Bookmite: Thinking...
Quilty Bookmite: Future is interesting. If you see PaB as an experiment, what is the purpose of the experiment and how do you measure the results?
Pema Pera: good questions, Quilty!
Pema Pera: Would anyone like to answer Quilty's questions?
Fael Illyar wonders if anyone but Pema actually views PaB as an experiment that way...
Wol Euler agrees that "experiment" is not quite thte right word.
Quilty Bookmite: I think experiment is the word I have heard Pema use on a few occasions.
Pema Pera: I see my whole life as an experiment :-)
Pema Pera: so I'm using the word differently from most people, perhaps
Wol Euler: however, be that as it may :) I measure the success of my involvement here in decreasing discomfort with myself and thte world.
Maxine Walden: life as a lab, you have mentioned Pema
Pema Pera: yes, a laboratory or a labyrinth :-)
Pema Pera: (as I recently heard!)
Maxine Walden: haha!
Maxine Walden: both apply

Quilty then asks Pema more specifically what he means about PaB as an experiment.  And Pema responds.  A hearty discussion about PaB ensues.

Quilty Bookmite: Perhaps if you could give an idea of what you mean by experiment then, Pema.
Wol Euler: or a big black dog.
Pema Pera: I use experiment, exploration and adventure almost interchangeably
Quilty Bookmite: I like labs. :-)
Pema Pera: hehe
Moon Fargis thinks of a new frankenstein cration..called. PABenstein
Pema Pera: Sure Quilty
Pema Pera: I see experiment as something where you have an idea about the nature of reality and you want to try it out
Pema Pera: you start with some kind of working hypothesis
Faenik: indeed?
Pema Pera: that hypothesis suggests *what* to try out, how to do the experiment and how to interpret it
Pema Pera: then you do it, you learn something from it, and you adjust and refine the working hypothesis
Gaya Ethaniel excuses herself and leave quietly. good day/night dear friends
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Gaya Ethaniel" from list.
Quilty Bookmite: Sounds pretty much how I understand experiment. :-)
Wol Euler: bye gaya
Maxine Walden: bye Gaya
Pema Pera: so in physics at least there is this cycle: hypothesis -> experiment -> refined hypothesis -> refined experiment -> etc
Quilty Bookmite: The PaB variations are therefore refined experiments?
Pema Pera: and I think that basic idea applies to any situation where you are willing to investigate something with an open mind, without believing or disbelieving
Pema Pera: The variations are different aspects of the experiment yes
Pema Pera: but there is not one "the experiment" -- PaB can be as wide and open as anyone likes it to be
Quilty Bookmite: OK, so to go back to my original question, in order to come up with a refined hypothesis you need to extract results from the experiment. How is this done?
Adams Rubble: Maybe we each have out own individual experiemnets within PaB
Pema Pera: exactly, Adams!
Pema Pera: and yet we inspire and stimulate and help each other in doing so
Pema Pera: As the results, Quilty, ultimately I see the results as finding ways to let Being be a true resource . . . .
Pema Pera: . . . . but that is quite a tall order, and not easily done overnight
Quilty Bookmite: Of course. :-)
Pema Pera: or you could say, seeing into Being, which automatically makes Being available as resource
Pema Pera: Perhaps I could sum it up in two different ways:
Pema Pera: 1) for myself: I love to investigate Being, and it is even more fun to do it together with others
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: 2) for others: as long as others are happy to play with me, I'm happy to share, and curious also how *they* want to play
Adams Rubble: And what a great time I have had playing :)
Quilty Bookmite: So there isn't really what you might call an end goal as such?
Pema Pera: yes and no
Wol Euler tickles mmoon
Pema Pera: no in the sense that we can't formulate one within our normal frame of reference
Pema Pera: yes in the sense that you could say: it is something like freedom from identification -- or a zillion other ways to phrase it
Pema Pera: but any of those "yesses" are only pointers to Being . . . . ununderstandable within our system, and without some kind of "seeing"
Quilty Bookmite: Actually, I like the idea of there not being a goal, but that's just me. :-)
Pema Pera: PaB like paths in the past have been called sometimes "taking the goal as the path"
Pema Pera: or "starting with the goal"
Pema Pera: the challenge is to integrate what is already here
Pema Pera: and to really see it for what it is
Pema Pera: celebrating the goal as already having been reached, rather than trying to reach it . . . .
Pema Pera: . . . and yet staying engaged and galvanized
Quilty Bookmite: Again, I like that.
Pema Pera: Very Dogen like in fact
Quilty Bookmite: but then I suspect it draws a little from Zen.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Pema Pera: Zen is similar, and so is dzog chen and so are various other paths
Pema Pera: But PaB tries to be even more minimal, you could say, by having no ritual or assumptions
Quilty Bookmite: Good point.
Quilty Bookmite: On the other hand, isn;t the basic PaB practice a ritual?
Pema Pera: whether that gives enough sustainance? We don't know. Many of us do PaB together with other approaches. We'll see to what extent PaB by itself can be enough for some of us!
Pema Pera: Yes, Quilty, good point!
Pema Pera: But without Boddhisatvas, Goddesses, etc
Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
Pema Pera: For many (most?) people personifications of the Truth are very important and helpful, personal manifestations I mean
Quilty Bookmite: This makes it more accessible. I came to Buddhism as an atheist and the Boddhisatvas etc. made me uncomfortable to start with.
Moon Fargis: well buddhism is whide ranged
Moon Fargis: there are buddhist ways wihout those beings
Moon Fargis: soldom but there are
Quilty Bookmite: Buddhism has also absorbed the ideas from other religions which can be a little confusing sometimes.
Moon Fargis: hah yes
Moon Fargis: that happens when a religion is spreaded in peace
Quilty Bookmite: I see that you are trying to get at the heart of things, which is a very worthy cause.
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed Moon.
Wol Euler: phone, afk
Pema Pera: My personal way of striking a balance is to remind myself time and again that the only reality is Being, and to then also find inspiration in that which Being lets appear here: other humans as well as other inspiring figures from the past as well as Boddhisattvas, etc -- so rather than seeing those figures as stand-alone, they are for me so many ways of helping us to become real friends with Being

Aware that I had to leave in a few minutes, and wishing to do the housekeeping duties such as take the chatlog, I mention my need to leave soon, and Pema suggests that the group go to the Library

Maxine Walden: (will have to leave in 5 minutes or so)
Pema Pera: We can have our trip to Moon's library, by the time Maxine leaves?
Fael Illyar wonders what it is to be friends with Being ... sounds a bit intriguing.
Moon Fargis: sure
Quilty Bookmite: Sure.
Maxine Walden: I would like to come as well and take a landmark before I have to leave if possible
Pema Pera: Being is offering all of us friendship, continuously . . . .
Moon Fargis: who didnt got a lm ?
Maxine Walden: me, Maxine
Moon Fargis gave you PaB Libray.
Maxine Walden: thanks, Moon, got it
Moon Fargis: ok lets go :)
Pema Pera: we can pick up the friendship theme at another session, Fael!
Fael Illyar: sure :)
Pema Pera: one of my favorite topics :)

Moon leaves to host the visitors to the PaB library. The rest of the group follow.

Quilty Bookmite: Sounds good.
Pema Pera: become friends with appearance is almost the same idea
Pema Pera: shall we follow moon?
Adams Rubble: bye Pavilion