2008.11.26 13:00 - Tax and Software

The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

When I arrived, doug and Becka were already there.

doug Sosa: hello?
doug Sosa: hi quilt.
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Doug, Becki.
Becka Finesmith: Hi Quilty and everyone
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, Becka.
doug Sosa: didn't see you, hi.
Becka Finesmith: Hey Doug :) BRB just got to get a drink
Quilty Bookmite: Neither did I. Just showed up on my radar.
Quilty Bookmite: You need a drink for my chats. :-)
doug Sosa: BRB?

Wol arrives.

Wol Euler: hello quilty, doug, becka
Quilty Bookmite: Means Be Right Back.
doug Sosa: ah, yes.
Quilty Bookmite: hi Wol.
Quilty Bookmite: Text speak is killing the English language. :-)

To be fair, I use acronyms like BRB myself but I draw the line at shortening words like you -> u. As I move further into middle age I need a few things to rage at.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi wester.
Wol Euler: hello wester, glad you came
Becka Finesmith: lol

Wester arrives.

Wester Kiranov: hi everyobody
Wol Euler: brb, time for tea
Becka Finesmith: I haven't had one all day :(
Quilty Bookmite: OK.
Quilty Bookmite: Please have a seat.
Wester Kiranov: thanks
Becka Finesmith: Hi Wol - Looking very glam tonight :) Off out?
Wol Euler: back
Wol Euler smiles at Becka. Thanks! I felt the need for some glam today.
Becka Finesmith: one of those days?
Wol Euler: meh.
Wol Euler: (I do need a little cheering up, yes)
Becka Finesmith: Do you want to talk about it?
Quilty Bookmite: What's up Wol? *tickles Wol*
Wol Euler squirms and laughs.
Wol Euler: Eh, it's fine, just work today and more work tomorrow.
Becka Finesmith nods
Wol Euler: I have a bad feeling that tomorrow's day (2 hours train ride, fixing a problem, 2 hours train back) will be a waste of time
Becka Finesmith: will you get paid?
Wol Euler: well, that is the catch.
Quilty Bookmite: The 2 hour train ride isn;t normal then?
Becka Finesmith: :(
Wol Euler: the customer claims that it is a flaw in my software. If it is, then I won't charge anything.
Becka Finesmith: Ahh. Pain.
Wol Euler: however, I am about 87.3% certain that it is an operating system error.

Such precise certainty can only come from someone with an engineering or scientific background, and it went unnoted. :-)

Becka Finesmith: yay :)
Wol Euler: everything she's said supports this. But the in-house IT department denies it.
Quilty Bookmite: Then you just need to prove it. :-)
Becka Finesmith: Wol. You are in the UK aren't you?
Wol Euler: I am betting that I will prove them wrong within an hour
Wol Euler: no, germany.
Quilty Bookmite: What is the OS?
Wol Euler: and if I do, then I will sure as hell bill them for wasting my time
Becka Finesmith: ahh - ok - I thought it was Europe way ;)
Wol Euler: XP
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
doug Sosa: I thought you, wol, were an Alsatian dog in a research center? were a
Quilty Bookmite: Bugs? In XP? Never!

I jest of course, but XP will at least run on an average PC more than a year or two old, unlike Vista.

Becka Finesmith: Bound to be an OS faultt hen ;)
Wol Euler: but I am not looking forward to it.
Wol Euler: oh, but I am doug.
Wol Euler: dogs have jobs too.
Wol Euler: hello pema
doug Sosa: Wonderful!

Pema graces us with his presence.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pema
Becka Finesmith: It could be worse
Wester Kiranov: hi pema
doug Sosa: hi.
Pema Pera: Hi All !
Quilty Bookmite: No disguise Pema?

A reference to a comment I made in a guardian meeting. I suggested that Pema arrive at a meeting in disguise and see if the mood is really different with and without him being there.

Becka Finesmith: I had to visit someone today because they couldn't print their VAT return :(
Becka Finesmith: :0
Wol Euler: O.O
Quilty Bookmite: You're in the UK Becka?
Becka Finesmith: I'll be thinking of you sticking it to them ;)
Becka Finesmith: Yes Quilty
Wol Euler grins
Quilty Bookmite: So new VAT rate is imminent. :-)

For the uninitiated, the UK government have decided to drop the rate of VAT (Value Added Tax - it's on most purchased items) from 17.5% to 15% to try and boost spending and therefore the economy.

Becka Finesmith: Hi Pema
Quilty Bookmite: That'll probably mess up all the software.
Becka Finesmith: Yes - And that was part of the problem
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Becka Finesmith: I don't think there software handled it very well
Becka Finesmith: thier
Quilty Bookmite: It's quite a while since we had a VAT rate change.
Wol Euler chuckles.
Becka Finesmith: yeah. I doubt we will see much change
Wol Euler frowns. did someone just arrive?
Wol Euler: no, I got a second listener. damn and blast.

PaB Listener playing up again.

Quilty Bookmite: I don't think so.
Pema Pera trying to remember the argument about a brain in a vat
Becka Finesmith: We all moved though?
Quilty Bookmite: I like this adaptability. I must congratulate Storm.
Pema Pera: yes!
Becka Finesmith: lol@Pema
Wol Euler nods. It's very nice this way.
Wester Kiranov: there was water here when i arrived
Quilty Bookmite: i turned it off.
Becka Finesmith: Global Warming

Someone (probably Pema) decided to make the pool reappear so that we are all sitting in it.

Pema Pera: hahaha
Quilty Bookmite: Ahh! Wet!
Pema Pera: better to melt the ice than break the ice!
Becka Finesmith: lol
doug Sosa: this is the oops. best, sitting in the water (gone).
Becka Finesmith: Does anyone have the bell as an MP3 file?
Becka Finesmith: I'd like to use it for my 15 minute timer
Pema Pera: I suggest you IM Fael Illyar
Becka Finesmith: I'm trying to train myself
Pema Pera: she is most likely to know
Becka Finesmith: THanks Pema
Pema Pera: (and is online right now)
Quilty Bookmite: One day I must record a real monastery bell.
Becka Finesmith: I don't have her as a contact but I will add
Pema Pera: Wester, did you get a chance to play a bit with the 9-sec explorations?
Quilty Bookmite: You can hear the ring for a couple of minutes after it is struck.
Wester Kiranov: a little bit
Pema Pera: a couple minutes!!!
Pema Pera: how was it?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. If it is quiet enough. :-)
Wester Kiranov: I tend to do much too much
Wester Kiranov: that much i found out
Pema Pera: great!
Pema Pera: was it hard to remind yourself to do it?
Wester Kiranov: i put the mindfulness bell of the link on
Wester Kiranov: on 15 minutes
Pema Pera: ah, that's a nice tool
Wester Kiranov: and then did it in about one third of the cases
Pema Pera: how did it feel, did you get used to it a bit?
Wester Kiranov: still getting the hang of it
Wester Kiranov: i'm thinking instead of seeing too much, still
Pema Pera: the most important thing is to get used to stopping regularly
Pema Pera: everything else follows from stopping, it seems
Pema Pera: just seeing your thinking is already a great step
Pema Pera: become aware of how many thoughts you have, and then watching those
Pema Pera: not suppressing or trying to change
Wester Kiranov: when you see things, they automatically change a bit
Pema Pera: oh yes, and often for the better :-)
Wester Kiranov: like your body posture when you meditate
Pema Pera: yes
Wol Euler raises her teacup to Werner Heisenberg :)
Pema Pera is a bit unsure about that
Pema Pera: (uncertain I should have said)
doug Sosa: lately I've been noticing that when i shift to the 9 sec things are more defined by color and less by geometry (shape).
Quilty Bookmite: One thought. The bell in a monastery is rung every 3 minutes during the first meditation period in the morning and the last meditation period at night. The idea is to bring the mind back into focus at a time when it tends to wander. I wonder if the 9 seconds practice is doing something similar.
Quilty Bookmite isn;t certain whether or not to raise my cup.

And I now realise that I made the same joke as Pema, some time after. Doh! If you don't know what this is about, look up Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principal.

Pema Pera: I think so, Quilty!
Pema Pera: (as to 3 min)
Pema Pera: interesting shift, Doug!
doug Sosa: yes. one thing, it is easier to see the appearance behind the appearance in color than in geometry, which tendds to freeze out the inner vision.
doug Sosa: One can experiment right here by shifting attention from tthe shape of things to the colors.
doug Sosa: back and forth.

I must admit to getting a bit lost here. This may be something to do with Synesthesia.

Wester Kiranov: it does soften the focus
Wester Kiranov: but it brings out too many intellectual questions, for me personally
doug Sosa: how can there be too many questions?
Wester Kiranov: some questions distract
Wester Kiranov: more than others
doug Sosa: got it.
doug Sosa: Focus is interesting, it tends to require muscle tension, which makes freedom difficult.
doug Sosa: the 9 sec for me is an easing off focus.
Quilty Bookmite: Even mental focus?

Doh again! What other kind of focus is there?

doug Sosa: yes, especialy.
doug Sosa: for me.
Quilty Bookmite: I don't find that in meditation unless I have a posture problem.
Wester Kiranov: i think focus is not a bad thing unless you get stuck
Pema Pera: Doug, how would you use the word "focus" when expert dancers dance together, improvising a totall new dance spontaneously -- are they "focusing" on their dancing?
doug Sosa: well, good question. I think the bad dancer focuses, now on this foot, that hand, etc. The good dancer lets go of focus
doug Sosa: and takes in the whole.
Pema Pera: yes, I think so
Pema Pera: but you could also say "using a broader focus"
Pema Pera: it's partly a matter of how to use those words
doug Sosa: focus implies a narrowing no?
Pema Pera: often yes
doug Sosa: Ah, but "bring into focus does not require narrowing.
Pema Pera: (was just thinking about that phrase)
doug Sosa: but it is chosing one distance over another.
Pema Pera: yes
doug Sosa: I like to think about looking at a face. one can "focus" on the plane of the face, or let attention move to the area where a halo would be and let the face blur a bit.
doug Sosa: We actually "see" more of the face this way.
Pema Pera: nice example!
Pema Pera: Sorry, have to take off, good seeing you all, though briefly!
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Pema.
Wester Kiranov: bye pema
Pema Pera: always a pity to take off, but . . . .
Wol Euler smiles. bye pema

Pema leaves and we get silly.

doug Sosa: brief can be good!
Quilty Bookmite: PaB Listener is going mad.
Wol Euler: yes, since the newest round of server upgrades.
Wester Kiranov: or being thorough
Wol Euler: working on it now.
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. I see. It's an OS problem. :-)
doug Sosa: oops, yes, past 1:30 i too much vaporize :)
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Doug.
Wester Kiranov: bye
Quilty Bookmite: Language chats?
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe not.
Wol Euler: eh?
Quilty Bookmite: Just wondering if there was a language chat at the Kira cafe.
Wol Euler: oh right.
Wol Euler: probably...
Wester Kiranov: i think in 25 minutes
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. OK.
Wester Kiranov: i think they usually are at 2
Wol Euler: um, no, from 1:30 to 2
Wol Euler: language half-hour
Quilty Bookmite: Onigokko
Wol Euler: P is prodding me to attend the German evening tonight.
Wol Euler: i.e. now
Quilty Bookmite: Ah well.
Wol Euler: onigokko
Wester Kiranov: you're right, it's german right now
Quilty Bookmite: stop
Wol Euler: stop
Becka Finesmith: Why does that happen?
Wol Euler: ah, didn't I give you one?
Wol Euler: an object named "onigokko"?
Wol Euler: let me remedy that at once!
Wester Kiranov: what is it?
Wol Euler: a bit of harmless fun :)
Wol Euler: just wear it, it ataches invisibly
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
Wol Euler: and makes you run about waving your arms
Quilty Bookmite: I must remember not to capitalise it.
Wol Euler: when someone says ...
Wol Euler: onigokko
Wol Euler: hehehe
Becka Finesmith: lol
Wol Euler: stop
Becka Finesmith: lol
Becka Finesmith: Try again
Wol Euler: be my guest :)
Quilty Bookmite: You're making it look like I'm odd or something. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: onigokko
Becka Finesmith: onigokko
Becka Finesmith: lol
Quilty Bookmite: stop
Wol Euler: stop
Becka Finesmith: Funny
Becka Finesmith: stop
Wol Euler: oh daer, you're stuck
Becka Finesmith: lol
Quilty Bookmite: stop
Wol Euler: select "stop all animations" from the help menu
Wester Kiranov: it seems i'm not doing something i should
Wol Euler: sorry, in "world" enu
Wol Euler: did you "wear" it, Wester?
Becka Finesmith: Too funny
Wester Kiranov: it seems not, how do i do that
Wol Euler: ah, ok. open your inventory, it will be in the "objects" folder
Quilty Bookmite: Drag it form your inventory onto yourself.
Wester Kiranov: i'm wearing it now
Wol Euler: so just say the magic word!
Wester Kiranov: onigokko
Wol Euler laughs
Wester Kiranov: :-)
Quilty Bookmite laughs maniacally
Becka Finesmith: I have to give this to my friends :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
Becka Finesmith: I think we are all stuck now!
Wol Euler: stop
Becka Finesmith: Can anyone say stop?
Wol Euler: the problem happens if two people say it at once.
Wol Euler: yep
Quilty Bookmite: Yes
Becka Finesmith: k
Wester Kiranov: what happens then?
Wol Euler: well, as happened earlier. Some people don't stop when you say "stop"
Wol Euler: they have to use the menu command to kill the animation
Wol Euler: wester, pema meint gerade daß Du auch Deutsch plappern kannst :-)
Becka Finesmith: It's very funny though :)
Wol Euler: heisst, er will uns zum Deutsch-Abend einladen.
Quilty Bookmite: Are you going Wol?
Wol Euler: pema is being insistent :)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Becka Finesmith: OK - better let you get off. See you all soon :)
Wol Euler: ok, bye for now; perhaps see you for happy hour?
Quilty Bookmite: Of course, you don't have to go. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Probably not. Bed time.
Wol Euler: ah, it's my Germanic sense of duty calling.
Becka Finesmith: ;)
Quilty Bookmite: Enjoy. Have a beer for me.
Wol Euler: will do!
Wol Euler: good night, quilty; everyone else bfn or goodnight too
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight
Becka Finesmith: Night everyone :)
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Becka.
Wester Kiranov: bye
Becka Finesmith: namaste
Quilty Bookmite: Namaste
Wester Kiranov: nice gesture
Quilty Bookmite: Thanks. Want it?
Wester Kiranov: please
Wester Kiranov accepted your inventory offer.
Becka Finesmith: :)
Quilty Bookmite: You too Becka?
Becka Finesmith: Te namaste?
Becka Finesmith: the Namaste?
Becka Finesmith: Oh
Becka Finesmith: Thank you
Quilty Bookmite: No. The gassho gesture.
Becka Finesmith accepted your inventory offer.
Wester Kiranov: how do i put this into use?
Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
Quilty Bookmite: Rigt click on it and activate it.
Quilty Bookmite: Then just type
Wester Kiranov: thanks
Quilty Bookmite: / gassho
Becka Finesmith: Ok - Thanks Quilty - See you soon.
Quilty Bookmite: Bye
Quilty Bookmite: Well, Wester. As you can see, I take my duties as a guardian seriously. :-)
Wester Kiranov: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Probably because I'm too tired to enter into a serious philosophical discussion.
Wester Kiranov: yeah
Quilty Bookmite: Or not enough alcohol, i.e. none.
Wester Kiranov: maybe you should go to the cafe then
Quilty Bookmite: I would rather go to bed. :-)
Wester Kiranov: sleep well then
Quilty Bookmite: You too. Would you like me to put the fountain back?
Wester Kiranov: that's fine
Quilty Bookmite: OK. It will return after you leave anyway.
Quilty Bookmite: Bye.
Wester Kiranov: bye