2008.11.12 19:00 - White Noise

stevenaia Michinaga was the guardian on call tonight and the comments are stevenaia's

Magdalena Colclough joined me followed by Threedee Shepherd and Adelene Dawner

 No room to sit here, try another spot.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Magdalena

Magdalena Colclough: Hi Steven

Magdalena Colclough: is there anyone else here I need to be worried about sitting on?

Magdalena Colclough: I only see you

stevenaia Michinaga: have a seat, it;s been a while since I've seen you, no one else here

Magdalena Colclough: yeah

Magdalena Colclough: has been

Magdalena Colclough: call me Maggie, please

stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse, happy to

Magdalena Colclough: so what's been going on in the group since I've been away?

stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Three

Magdalena Colclough: hi Threedee

Threedee Shepherd: Hi

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Ade

Magdalena Colclough: Hi Adelene

Adelene Dawner: ^.^

Adelene Dawner: hi all

stevenaia Michinaga: was waiting for last night log to me posted, Three

stevenaia Michinaga: I have my bad typing to correct

Threedee Shepherd: OK, I will post it right after this session

stevenaia Michinaga: :) and a picture of you three to post

stevenaia Michinaga: you missed Ade's Birthday a few days ago, Maggie

Magdalena Colclough: oh!

Magdalena Colclough: Happy Birthday, Adelene :)

stevenaia Michinaga: she's 26.... is that right?

stevenaia Michinaga: few of us can say that anymore

Adelene Dawner: ^.^ thanks. I'm 27 now.

Magdalena Colclough: oh wow--I remember my 26th birthday

Magdalena Colclough: one of my best birthdays ever

stevenaia Michinaga: wow I was already blissfully married

Magdalena Colclough: I was blissfully separated :)

Threedee Shepherd: Steve, you and I are from a "different" era. I was married when I was 21

Magdalena Colclough: I got married at 22

stevenaia Michinaga: indeed

Magdalena Colclough: oh, I guess I'm from your era too :)

stevenaia Michinaga: haha

Threedee Shepherd: My first daughter was born when I was 25.

Adelene Dawner: 21, here, and boy was *that* a mistake.

Magdalena Colclough: ditto, Adelene

Adelene Dawner: But well, live and learn.

Magdalena Colclough: my friend described me as, "You went to high school for 4 years, you went to college for 4 years, you were married for 4 years, then you graduated"

Adelene Dawner: hehehe

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting collection of diplomas

Threedee Shepherd: ^.^

Magdalena Colclough: yes, but I think the last has been my ost useful

stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Geo

Magdalena Colclough: Hi Geo

Geo Netizen: hi all :)

Threedee Shepherd: hi

stevenaia Michinaga: well Geo, the floor is yours... smile

Geo Netizen laughs

Adelene Dawner chuckles.

stevenaia Michinaga: we've been waiting for you

Geo Netizen nods at the humor

Magdalena Colclough is a little confused

stevenaia Michinaga: ... always

Magdalena Colclough: I'm not ALWAYS confused!

Magdalena Colclough: well, maybe almost always

Geo Netizen: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I was disturbing the silence with humor

Threedee Shepherd: which is subtly difference with humoring the silence with disturbancd :>

Threedee Shepherd: and bad typing

Geo Netizen ch/me chuckles … “very good!”

Magdalena Colclough: humoring the silence with disturbance! oh, I love it!

Magdalena Colclough: and silencing the disturbance with humor

Bell: *ding*

stevenaia Michinaga: hmm, so much for unintended consequenses

Magdalena Colclough grins

Geo Netizen: Ok … how about:

Given: ћ ≡ h/2π and ΔXΔP ≥ ћ/2 then ΔEΔt ≥ ћ

Magdalena Colclough nods

Magdalena Colclough: exactly!

Geo Netizen laughs

Geo Netizen in gasps

Magdalena Colclough pats Geo on the back

Magdalena Colclough: you ok there?

stevenaia Michinaga: Geo, you don;t know what that does to me when I edit these logs with characters that don;t seem to show up when I post the text

Magdalena Colclough: insert it as an image

stevenaia Michinaga: what language is your computer configured with?

Geo Netizen: Ok .... in english ..... just fro grins:

Geo Netizen: It means that energy-time uncertainty is a consequence of the Robertson-Schrödinger relation (see Heisenberg uncertainty principle). Therefore, I suggest, time cannot be divisible into smaller units indefinitely but has a fundamental minimum size. Or to put it even more imprecisely but definitely more poetically, the heart of the universe beats at 5.391 × 10-44 seconds each beat (see Planck time).

Magdalena Colclough: there was a time when I would have also argued that meditation could not be divisible into smaller units indefinitely but had a fundamental minimum size

Geo Netizen: I think maybe it was something I had for supper :)

Magdalena Colclough: but with the whole -sec thing...

stevenaia Michinaga: really? but how can you measure such increaments

Magdalena Colclough: 9-sec

Threedee Shepherd: Yes, but all models are just approximations, which simply be piecewise linear approximations of continuous functions !

Threedee Shepherd: *can be

Geo Netizen: Ahhh but RL is digital …. quantum … not continuous :))))

Threedee Shepherd: I think the minimum time in Buddhism is 1/64th of a finger snap, as I recall

Magdalena Colclough: I think we should post a warning to newcomers on this particular log, lest they run away screaming thinking it's all like this

Threedee Shepherd: sorry, MY RL is definately analog ;)

Magdalena Colclough: since when do you use the term RL?

Geo Netizen: On at low res

Threedee Shepherd: OK FL

Magdalena Colclough: no, not you, Geo

stevenaia Michinaga: well perhaps we should think about what to name this log, always an interesting task for the Guardian

Geo Netizen: Hey I like that Fl == 1L

Threedee Shepherd: The wavefunction is a wave, not digital

Magdalena Colclough starts a football-game-esque wave and then looks around, realizing nobody else is thinking what she's thinking

Geo Netizen: But the wave function SI the approximation

Geo Netizen: -IS-

Threedee Shepherd: I was, just could not do it ^.^

Magdalena Colclough grins

Geo Netizen: though an amazing accurate one

Geo Netizen: but we're talking digital at the 5.391 √ó 10-44 level

Magdalena Colclough: I dare you to speak without numbers for the rest of the night, Geo

Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps it should be called mini-dot theory rather than string theory

stevenaia Michinaga: seems it would be easier to limit digital increments then analogs

Geo Netizen: Twinkle twinkle little stars ….

Magdalena Colclough likes polka dots

Geo Netizen: Yes .... there is a fundamental limit …. that's the point

Magdalena Colclough sings: twinkle twinkle little bat... how I wonder where you're at... up above the world so high... like a tea tray in the sky

Threedee Shepherd: Well, when Adelene is guardina we end up with Ade-logs

Magdalena Colclough: heh

stevenaia Michinaga: laughs

Geo Netizen: Analog appears to be continuous but only at lower resolutions.

Geo Netizen: :)

Magdalena Colclough: but nothing will ever sound as good as virgin vinyl

Geo Netizen: So …. who has the task to try to make this log presentable ?

Threedee Shepherd: You mentioned the Planck constant, that's 3-board-feet, isn't it?

stevenaia Michinaga: raises hand

Magdalena Colclough: 3-bored-feet, I think

Geo Netizen: Ahhh ....

Threedee Shepherd: *I* resisted that one :>

Magdalena Colclough: lol

stevenaia Michinaga: these aren;t puns, are they?

Geo Netizen: No .... of course not ......

Bell: *ding*

Magdalena Colclough: when did we start dinging?

stevenaia Michinaga: it;s wired into Ade

Magdalena Colclough wants to ding

Threedee Shepherd: Actually we could segue into a topic, they are the mind working at warped speed (sorry:) which seems the exact opposite of calm meditative observing.

stevenaia Michinaga: continue, Three

Threedee Shepherd: Yet, doing that *punny reparte* seems one essence of playing,

Magdalena Colclough nods, smiling

Geo Netizen nods

Magdalena Colclough: and the speed of it can almost be a meditation in iteself

Geo Netizen smiles

Threedee Shepherd: yet the 9-sec PLAY asBeing is calm, not mentally frenetic. So are we observing different aspects of Being and/or of Play

Magdalena Colclough: in the way that a constant hum disappears as white noise

stevenaia Michinaga: faster can be as meditative as slower

Magdalena Colclough nods

Threedee Shepherd: I like that white noise analogy, worth thinking about

stevenaia Michinaga: when I used to run, you can loose yourself the same way you can when you are still

Magdalena Colclough smiles at Threedee

Geo Netizen nods

Geo Netizen: more so even

Threedee Shepherd: that's just cheap drugs :>

Magdalena Colclough laughs

Magdalena Colclough: endogenous opiates?

Geo Netizen: Well yes .... free actually

Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm

Geo Netizen: not counting the cost of food

Magdalena Colclough: dunno--running shoes can be pricey

Threedee Shepherd: beat me to it, Geo

Geo Netizen: Ok shoes too

Threedee Shepherd: Ethopians run barefoot and win all the big races

Geo Netizen: Not the Boston and NY I think

Magdalena Colclough: yeah, but aren't they like 8 feet tall? no, wait, that's the Masai

Geo Netizen: asphalt

Magdalena Colclough begins to crave lentils with berbere and injera

Geo Netizen Checking google ......

stevenaia Michinaga: wonders about speed one travels and if the moment changes then

Geo Netizen has to go …. hope I added a little play to being :) …..

stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t the moment the same moving of being still

Geo Netizen bows " "Bye all"

Geo departs

stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Geo

Magdalena Colclough: have a good night, Geo

Threedee Shepherd: bye

Magdalena Colclough: (off the log: did I offend him with the bored thing? I didn't mean to imply that *he* was boring)

stevenaia Michinaga: not likely

stevenaia Michinaga: humor and play co-exist easily here

Magdalena Colclough sighs with relief

Magdalena Colclough: does he usually leave early?

Threedee Shepherd: yes

Magdalena Colclough: k

stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps like doug, who always ahs dinner about now

Magdalena Colclough: ahh

Threedee Shepherd: so where were we with calmness

Magdalena Colclough smiles

stevenaia Michinaga: I was just sleepie tonight

Threedee Shepherd: The white noise analogy suggests that as the noise increases equally it wraps around the other side and meets calmness

Magdalena Colclough smiles and ponders this

Magdalena Colclough: so it's the steady rhythm of it?

Threedee Shepherd: white noise is chaotic and lacks rhythm or any single discernable aspect

Bell: *ding*

Magdalena Colclough: wraps around the other side of what? our mind? our soul? Being?

Threedee Shepherd: being

stevenaia Michinaga: i see the noise as a relative thing, lays there, the lower it is the more open to sence of Being you are

Magdalena Colclough: so when you say it increases equally, what do you mean, Threedee?

stevenaia Michinaga: could be a difference in noises

Threedee Shepherd: I am suggesting that ultimate chaotic frenzy may be indistinguishable from ultimate calm

Magdalena Colclough nods

Threedee Shepherd: White noise is all frequencies represented at the same intensity

Magdalena Colclough: ahh

Magdalena Colclough: interesting

Magdalena Colclough: all frequencies within the range of human hearing?

Magdalena Colclough: is white noise to humans still white to cats?

Magdalena Colclough: or to people with high frequency hearing loss?

Threedee Shepherd: You asked: (Wikipedia) "White noise is a random signal (or process) with a flat power spectral density. In other words, the signal contains equal power within a fixed bandwidth at any center frequency. White noise draws its name from white light in which the power spectral density of the light is distributed over the visible band in such a way that the eye's three color receptors (cones) are rather equally stimulated.
An infinite-bandwidth, white noise signal is purely a theoretical construction. By having power at all frequencies, the total power of such a signal is infinite and therefore impossible to generate. In practice, however, a signal can be "white" with a flat spectrum over a defined frequency band."
Threedee Shepherd: "Grey noise is random noise subjected to a psychoacoustic equal loudness curve (such as an inverted A-weighting curve) over a given range of frequencies, giving the listener the perception that it is equally loud at all frequencies.
This is in contrast to white noise, noise which is in fact equally loud at all frequencies but not perceived as such due to psychoacoustics.

Magdalena Colclough: cool

Threedee Shepherd: And above, you have just been treated to "Threedee Noise"

Magdalena Colclough: was the purring you too?

Magdalena Colclough: was very nice

Threedee Shepherd: No that's Ade

Magdalena Colclough: so if there's white light and white noise, is there white fragrance? white texture?

Magdalena Colclough: white flavor?

Threedee Shepherd: Theoretically, though that is not defined as such

Magdalena Colclough: what would be an example?

Magdalena Colclough: is lying on a bed of nails an experience of white texture?

Threedee Shepherd: Well, that's hard, given that there are about 5000-10000 fragrences, not even all yet well defined. I doubt there is a texture homolog.

Magdalena Colclough: because it's distributed evenly alll over your body, so you don't really feel it?

Threedee Shepherd: that is a good analogy

Magdalena Colclough: so what might this have to teach us about seeing Being?

Threedee Shepherd: Scale matters

Threedee Shepherd: ?

Magdalena Colclough smiles

Magdalena Colclough: and evenness, consistency

Magdalena Colclough thinks of her own erratic being with a bit of dismay

Threedee Shepherd: Yes, but everything interesting to the senses is at the *edges* where change happens

Magdalena Colclough: ahhh. hmmm

Adelene Dawner chuckles. "One scale's 'erratic' is another scale's 'orderly' or even 'boring'

Magdalena Colclough smiles

Threedee Shepherd: we are back to time again

Magdalena Colclough: oh?

Threedee Shepherd: different temporal scales

Magdalena Colclough nods

Threedee Shepherd: Seriously. I now ponder why silence, calmness, mindfulness is the class of valued things in buddhism?

Magdalena Colclough nods

Bell: *ding*

Threedee Shepherd: they are exactly the things the brain is not designed to do. It would be like playing a CD player with the volume all the way down

Magdalena Colclough: yes!!

stevenaia Michinaga: clears the mind, leaving it more open to thr next thing and the current thing

Magdalena Colclough: but I've NEVER understood how it's possible to clear the mind

Magdalena Colclough: my great failing in Buddhism

Threedee Shepherd: One does NOT clear the air by removing all the gas molecules

Magdalena Colclough grins

Adelene Dawner grins. "The only way to grok that something is futile is to try it and see." ^.^

Threedee Shepherd: Why do we assume the mind NEEDS to be cleared?

Magdalena Colclough: is that from Stranger, Adelene?

Magdalena Colclough: yes--that and the intense focus on suffering are what turned me away from Buddhism

Adelene Dawner: the word, yes, the meme, no.

Magdalena Colclough: ah

Threedee Shepherd: Short-term memory clears itself many times per second.

Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps it is not that the mind needs clearing, but that what is important is what is occupying it?

Magdalena Colclough nods

stevenaia Michinaga: when i clear my mind, thee is always the point when it fills with new thoughts, like the water rushing back in

Magdalena Colclough: I like the notion of receptivity in Taoism better than the notion of emptiness in Buddhism

Threedee Shepherd: Please say more

stevenaia Michinaga: hmm we must be late, the cleaning crew has arrived

Magdalena Colclough: lol

Threedee Shepherd: Who has remove power

     

Several people using voice arrived with cleaning equipment rumaging through out pavilion interrupting and walking over us...

    

Magdalena Colclough is poweless

Magdalena Colclough: can you bite them?

stevenaia Michinaga: on that note, I msut go

Threedee Shepherd: well I was able to catch and eject her

Magdalena Colclough: but we can still hear her

stevenaia Michinaga: vacuum and all?

Threedee Shepherd: no that's him, he's moving too fast to easily catch

Magdalena Colclough: she said something about being banned

Magdalena Colclough: in voice

stevenaia Michinaga: to fast for a lion?

Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I banned her

stevenaia Michinaga: I;m shocked

Adelene Dawner: got'm.

Magdalena Colclough: but I mean, if they're banned, should they still be audible?

Threedee Shepherd: no, I think not

Magdalena Colclough: hmm

Adelene Dawner: Banned just means they can't be on this land - mute does what you want.

Magdalena Colclough: this land being just the pavilion?

Threedee Shepherd: yes, but one needs to select to mute

Adelene Dawner: It may be for just here, or all PaB land... not sure.

stevenaia Michinaga: night all

Threedee Shepherd: night

Magdalena Colclough: goodnight, all

Adelene Dawner: The selecting's the hard part, yes... though banning can be dons by script, with the right perms, I think.

Magdalena Colclough: was a pleasure

Threedee Shepherd: have fun making a sensible log ;D

Magdalena Colclough: lol

stevenaia Michinaga's PaB Listener: No longer recording. Have a nice day. :)

stevenaia Michinaga shouts: THANKS