2008.11.20 19:00 - Finding home

The guardian for this meeting was Sylectra Darwin.
The comments are Sylectra's.

Adelene Dawner: Hullo :)
Sylectra Darwin: hullo!
Sylectra Darwin: this seat taken?
Adelene Dawner: It is now :)
Sylectra Darwin: Geo, hi, Threedee, hi
Geo Netizen: Hi Sylectra
Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks
Geo Netizen: Hi Ade, Threedee
Adelene Dawner twitches ear and tail in Geo's general direction in a typically feline "and where have you been?"
Sylectra Darwin: I call that "tipping the ear"
Geo Netizen smiles at the warm welcome
Sylectra Darwin: I lived with three cats not too long ago.
Sylectra Darwin: Cat's are so zen.
Adelene Dawner: :)
Geo Netizen: Good evening Sundhi
sundhi Joubert: hello
sundhi Joubert: rezzing,,,,dont want to sit on someone
Sylectra Darwin: The more the merrier Sundhi! haha
Threedee Shepherd: hello
sundhi Joubert: hahah
sundhi Joubert: u 2 look comfy
Adelene Dawner: ooops, wrong button
Geo Netizen: Hmmm roar not purr tonight !!
Threedee Shepherd purrs, too
Sylectra Darwin: Our lion friends are always sprawled out over everything, but they are loveable.
Adelene Dawner *is* still a little growly, but claws-in as always.
sundhi Joubert: look friendly to me
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Sylectra Darwin: Ade, did you sleep well?
Adelene Dawner: Yes :)
sundhi Joubert: im new,,,,this is my 2nd visit,,,,
sundhi Joubert: what happens her tonight
sundhi Joubert: here
Sylectra Darwin: I am glad to see you here, Sundhi.
sundhi Joubert: ty..i think i will this group a lot
Sylectra Darwin: Have you heard that we record our conversations here for the wiki?
Sylectra Darwin: Is this okay with you?
sundhi Joubert: yes
Sylectra Darwin: ok, thanks
sundhi Joubert: fine wth me
Geo Netizen: We don’t always have a topic for discussion ….
Sylectra Darwin: so what's new, is there anything people would like to discuss?
sundhi Joubert: ok
Geo Netizen: Was there a topic at the first meeting you attended?
Adelene Dawner: So Geo, what've you been up to?
Bell: *ding*
sundhi Joubert: brb
Sylectra Darwin: kk
Geo Netizen: Conf new laptops, desktops .. printers …
Geo Netizen: work on the financial 5-yr plan
stevenaia Michinaga: ok, who turned on the fountain?
Geo Netizen: deal with staff issues
Geo Netizen: the usually stuff
Geo Netizen: We could play with the (not so) secret controls
Sylectra Darwin: Hi Steven :)
Geo Netizen: Ahhh, Hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, that was me under water

I had accidentally stopped the PaB listener device and a long series of status reports scrolled by as I  corrected it.

Sylectra Darwin: okay so I am totally messing up these controls, sorry guys!
Sylectra Darwin: haha
stevenaia Michinaga: is our listener out of control?
stevenaia Michinaga: or it;s our guardian
Sylectra Darwin: I did it.
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Sylectra Darwin: I was tryingt o learn the fountain controls.
stevenaia Michinaga: you can do that without touching anything Sylectra
Geo Netizen: /em Looking through his email
Sylectra Darwin: oh, chat controls?

Sylectra Darwin: aha, thank you Adelene.
Nostrum Forder: GOD, SYL IS SO DRUNK.
stevenaia Michinaga: and she still types better than I
sundhi Joubert: back
stevenaia Michinaga: wb sundhi
Geo Netizen: Didn’t miss too much
stevenaia Michinaga: why don;t I see Nos?
Geo Netizen: Hi Nostrum
stevenaia Michinaga: oh, there she is
Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum! Behave.
Nostrum Forder: Hi
Geo Netizen feel out of the loop somehow
sundhi Joubert: so,,,,,,,,,
Nostrum Forder: I'm trying. can i have my pants back?
Nostrum Forder: or are you still using them?
Sylectra Darwin: bad, bad....lol
Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum, have a seat. We were just discussing procrastination.
stevenaia Michinaga: I think this only works if we have all been drinking
Geo Netizen laughs
Nostrum Forder: can we talk about it later?
Sylectra Darwin snickers
Nostrum Forder: I think I need a drink
sundhi Joubert: whats the hurry
Threedee Shepherd: No, we are discussing LAST year's procrastination.
sundhi Joubert: even less of a hurry
Nostrum Forder: I think we should put off the discussion until we find some more beer.
Sylectra Darwin: So I had the travel dream again.
sundhi Joubert: dont want to make a hasty decision
Threedee Shepherd: In my travel dream, I never get there
Sylectra Darwin: I think I am processing the question, "What is home?"
Geo Netizen: Ahhh … good…. tell us about it
Sylectra Darwin: You have one too Three?
Geo Netizen: First let’s hear about Sylectra’s dream
Threedee Shepherd: In various guises. But I forget the ticket, or my passport, or there is plane malfunction, or whatever
Sylectra Darwin: yeah, Three, I can relate.
Sylectra Darwin: In my dream, I am usually staying with a family member, and in a guest room that just doesn't quite

do the job for what I need.
Nostrum Forder: I had a dream that someone was chasing me.
Nostrum Forder: and then she caught me.
Sylectra Darwin: I can't find my stuff and I am late for the plane, and my relative is slowing down my efforts to meet it.
Sylectra Darwin: That was me.
Nostrum Forder: But I'm not supposed to talk about it.
Nostrum Forder: Then I had a different dream.
Geo Netizen: Hi Melodie
Sylectra Darwin: Hi Melodie, will you join us?
Bell: *ding*
Geo Netizen thinks he like to hear about Nostrum's dream next
Geo Netizen: From fields studies
Geo Netizen: your observation is from field studies I take it Nostrum
Nostrum Forder: I have to say I'm enjoying having Syl around tremendously.
Sylectra Darwin: grins
Sylectra Darwin: But I am not "home" yet, which is why I had the dream again.
Sylectra Darwin: I have had this dream on and off for the last 20 years though.
Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum thinks if I find my true home I will stop having it.
Sylectra Darwin: Maybe it is a mental discipline opportunity.
Nostrum Forder: I actually think
Nostrum Forder: you'll stop having it when you internalize "home"
Sylectra Darwin: How does one feel at home anywhere they are?
Sylectra Darwin: you just answered what I asked, and yet I wonder about the specifics.
Nostrum Forder: I don't feel at home here, even now. For me, home is a definite place, and no matter how far away from it I get, I always feel "home" when I'm there.
Geo Netizen: What is 'home'?
Threedee Shepherd: Robert Frost: Home is where they have to take you in.
Nostrum Forder: home is the place they can't kick you out of if you fart.
Sylectra Darwin: haha
sundhi Joubert: not always
sundhi Joubert: depends on who else is there
Threedee Shepherd: Is home a place and/or a state of mind?
Geo Netizen: but single people would also define a place as home
Sylectra Darwin: That's the crux of my dilemma, Geo.
Geo Netizen: Hi Corvi
sundhi Joubert: state of mind
Geo Netizen: Good to see you

Corvuscova looks for a place to settle.

Threedee Shepherd: pick me, pick me, Corvi!
Geo Netizen: State of mind induced by a place?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, All.
Sylectra Darwin: Good to see you Corvi.
Threedee Shepherd: Or place induced by state of mind?
sundhi Joubert: hello corvi
Threedee Shepherd purrs contentedly
Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches random ears, and gets confused by Sylectra's.
Sylectra Darwin: hehe
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ooops...that didn't work.
Sylectra Darwin: I could put my cheetah ears on if you want.
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi, sorry I was drinking
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Threedee Shepherd: Scratching ears is like love, you can give and give and never run out ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs at Steve.
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins...yeah.
sundhi Joubert: well folks,,,,got to go....thanks:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Sundhi.
Geo Netizen: Bye Sundhi hope to see you agina
Sylectra Darwin: ok Sundhi, thanks for coming.
Sylectra Darwin: going back to the conversation...
Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches her cheeta ears. "bye, Nos!"
Nostrum Forder: I am being dragged off.
Nostrum Forder: Have fun. Try not to use big words, cause I'll read the wiki and be confused.
Geo Netizen wonders if Nostrum intentionally turned her back on him
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Nostrum Forder" from list.
Geo Netizen Hmmm .... interesting
Sylectra Darwin: Nos got paged, sorry.
Geo Netizen: Are we going to get a beverage dispense here …. maybe a wine cask?
Threedee Shepherd: Back to the idea of home. non-human primates move around within a "territory" usually. Many humans are nomadic and home is wherever they set up their stuff.
Sylectra Darwin: Well Geo that's an excellent idea
Threedee Shepherd: A wine cask requires a real spigot on my computer, or it is just window dressing :>
Geo Netizen: Perhaps Home and territory are the same thing …
Geo Netizen: I vote for real spigot
Geo Netizen: home is just a little smaller territory
Sylectra Darwin: To me home means somewhere I can always feel welcome.
Geo Netizen: i think a sense of safety has something to do with it
Sylectra Darwin: yes
Threedee Shepherd: familiarity
Geo Netizen: safety and security
Geo Netizen nods
Sylectra Darwin: belonging to a group
Adelene Dawner: allowedness.
Sylectra Darwin: I like that, Ade.
Geo Netizen nods at Ade
Adelene Dawner: :)
Sylectra Darwin: Someplace where we can answer many of our needs, like creativity and nutrition and acceptance and rest.
Threedee Shepherd: potential for privacy when necessary
Geo Netizen: In a way that's a type of safety
Bell: *ding*
Geo Netizen: I feel safe to do ... feel allowed to be and do
Threedee Shepherd: I wonder how home relates, if at all to Buddhist ideas about grasping and desire?
Threedee Shepherd: As in "MINE" becomes a burden and a trap and ego.
Geo Netizen: I suspect that if I shed desires .... I would have (need) no sense of home

Threedee's question is interesting and, although not much discussion followed, I resolved to learn more about this for
possible future discussion.

Adelene Dawner ponders, and thinks that part of 'allowedness' may be 'allowed to walk away'...
Sylectra Darwin: allowed to create, like you Ade with your projects.
Geo Netizen: Yes ... in its fullest sense ...
Geo Netizen: Hi Kirkra
Geo Netizen: Come have a perch
Kirkra Caerndow: Ahoy there
Geo Netizen: Nice av :)
Kirkra Caerndow: Ah, thank you
Geo Netizen: Is this your first time here Krikra?
Kirkra Caerndow: Yes it is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhhh!
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins!!!!
Sylectra Darwin: welcome Kirkra.
Sylectra Darwin: We save a record of our chats here for the wiki, which is posted to the Internet. Do you mind, Kirkra?
Corvuscorva Nightfire chitters at Kirkra...then shuts her mouth...realizing she looks like a girl not a crow.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: You're a raven!?
Geo Netizen laughs
Kirkra Caerndow: Ah, of course not
Kirkra Caerndow: I suppose so!
Geo Netizen wispers to Kirkra “Corvus … corva …. crow :)
Kirkra Caerndow: Yeah, I'm aware :)
Sylectra Darwin: Steven, why are you so far away?
stevenaia Michinaga: not far
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut like facing everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: w/o the fountain in the way...smile
Geo Netizen: that's what SL cameral position is for :)
Sylectra Darwin: hehe
Sylectra Darwin: That's what I do, Geo, but it sometimes confuses me if I cam out too far.
Threedee Shepherd: Is all of BEING home?
Geo Netizen: We come on the sloop john b
My grandfather and me
Around nassau town we did roam
Drinking all night
Got into a fight
Well I feel so broke up
I want to go home
Adelene Dawner: ^.^ *purrr*
Sylectra Darwin: I would like to think all of Being is home.
Corvuscorva Nightfire sings along.
Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up
I wanna go home
Geo Netizen: The first mate he got drunk
And broke in the capns trunk
The constable had to come and take him away
Sheriff john stone
Why dont you leave me alone, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up I wanna go home
Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, let me go home
Why dont you let me go home
(hoist up the john bs sail)
Hoist up the john b
I feel so broke up I wanna go home
Let me go home
Geo Netizen: The poor cook he caught the fits
And threw away all my grits
And then he took and he ate up all of my corn
Let me go home
Why dont they let me go home
This is the worst trip Ive ever been on
Threedee Shepherd: We sang that this past Sunday at my monthly folk-singing group gathering
Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, let me go home
Why dont you let me go home
Geo Netizen bows to no one in particuliar
Sylectra Darwin: Good song, Geo.
Kirkra Caerndow bows back
Sylectra Darwin: Geo is serenading us.
Geo Netizen: Well ... all this talk of home ...:)
Geo Netizen: Kinda makes me home sick
Geo Netizen wipes a tear
Threedee Shepherd: another quote: Home is where the heart is.
Sylectra Darwin: good one. Classic.
Geo Netizen wipes another tear
Sylectra Darwin: Are you off, Ade? Or just shifting?
Geo Netizen feels much better :)
Sylectra Darwin: Hello Serafim.
Sylectra Darwin: Join us if you like.
Geo Netizen vigorously scratches Ade’s ruff
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, thanks for the drinks
Bell: *ding*
Kirkra Caerndow: Sounds almost like... A chainsaw or something
Geo Netizen: Bye Stevenaia
Sylectra Darwin: I hate talking about home because it brings up all the hackneyed phrases, and yet it is so important to my sense of peace.
Adelene Dawner: (note to self: Install volume control on purr)
Sylectra Darwin: Bye Steven...?
Geo Netizen: O ... it's the perfect rumble Ade :)
Sylectra Darwin: Ade my volume controls don't have you too loud.
Geo Netizen: Exactly the comfort nature designed it to be :)
Sylectra Darwin: So Kirkra, tell us about your crow avatar.
Adelene Dawner: The point was, I'd like to be able to purr louder in response to skritching ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Raven
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Crows have different beaks.
Threedee Shepherd: Purr, and goodnight folks, I need to go. See you again soon ^.^
Kirkra Caerndow: Aye, and more fan shaped tails!
Adelene Dawner: 'night, Love ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Three.
Geo Netizen: O no ... two experts !
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thanks for the purrs...
Corvuscorva Nightfire grin....
Geo Netizen: Goodnight Three
Geo Netizen: Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
" 'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door;
Only this, and nothing more."
Kirkra Caerndow: Hah, not surprised to be hearing that one :>
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Threedee Shepherd" from list.
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at Geo.
Geo Netizen: and so forth .... till
Geo Netizen: And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming.
And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted---nevermore!
Kirkra Caerndow cheers dramatically
Geo Netizen: ActuallActually, I love that poem … one of my favorites
Geo Netizen: Just a little long to do the whole thing :)
Sylectra Darwin: thanks geo
Geo Netizen vigorously scratches Ade’s ruff again delighting in its feel
Corvuscorva Nightfire: more than a little long, Geo.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Bill who she just noticed.
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Solobill Laville" from list.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: awwww
Sylectra Darwin: does anyone else have a sense of home to share?
Adelene Dawner: Well... it's interesting...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was thinking about it being a place where other's come to visit...
Adelene Dawner: we moved around a lot when I was little, and I never really learned *how* to put down roots... I'm just now starting to see how that might even be a good thing to learn to do.
Adelene Dawner: But...
Solobill Laville: I'm sorry, I missed it , could you quickly review Syl?
Geo Netizen nods towards Ade ... but .....
Solobill Laville: "sense of home"?
Geo Netizen: Yes .... general discussion of home
Solobill Laville: ok
Geo Netizen: Very general though ... no specific focus
Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: I do have a recurring dream... not that I've had it recently, but I tend to have it every few years... of exploring a house that's mine. The house is different every time, in layout and looks (last time, it was literally built into the side of a hill!) but it's always 'the same' house, it's always home, and I'm always just... there. nd comfortable. And exploring.
Solobill Laville: What makes it feel like "home", Ade?
Geo Netizen: Some earlier descriptors:
somewhere I can always feel welcome.
sense of safety
familiarity
security
belonging
belonging to a group
allowedness.
Adelene Dawner: Not sure, Solo. It's just something I know, in the dreams.
Sylectra Darwin: Ade, the house is comfortable in your dream?
Adelene Dawner chuckles. "Depends on your definition of 'comfortable', and I rarely am in the parts that would normally *be* comfortable. One of my earliest memories of this dream, from when I was a kid, is of me crawling through some kind of secret tunnels between the various bathrooms of a mansion.
Kirkra Caerndow: I don't think that physical comfort is necessary for a home
Adelene Dawner: It's always beautiful, though.
Kirkra Caerndow: Although it certainly helps matters
Solobill Laville dreamed as a child of secret rooms in the walls of swimming pools
Geo Netizen scratches Ade’s ruff, feeling comfort in the warmth
Solobill Laville: There is warmth in home :)
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
Kirkra Caerndow: An interesting question might be whether home is a location or a state of mind
Solobill Laville: What if home were not outside (to follow up Kirkra's point)
Geo Netizen: Or state of mind induced by a particular location
Kirkra Caerndow: Well, does home need to have walls or a roof?
Kirkra Caerndow: I don't think it necessarily has to
Sylectra Darwin: Kirkra, that is a good question.
Solobill Laville: As a child I think it oes 99.9% of the time....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think it has to have what one needs to feel safe...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: walls are likely to be part of that unless the elements and the people are very....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: kind.
Geo Netizen: I believe a significant sense of safety and security is necessary …
Geo Netizen: particularly for the young
Sylectra Darwin: Well at least I am not exploring dark basements and finding neglected pets in cages anymore, as I was in college.
Solobill Laville: yes, and as a child I would posit that physical safe = physcological safe, again 99.9% of the time
Geo Netizen: /menods
Sylectra Darwin: good point, Solobill
Geo Netizen nods
Geo Netizen: For the very young ... mother's arms would be home
Kirkra Caerndow: Exactly
Geo Netizen: warmth ... food ... sense of security
Kirkra Caerndow: An island could be a home if it it could be used to sustain oneself
Geo Netizen: Yes .... or a farm .... or a ranch ....
Kirkra Caerndow: Quite so! It's not something that can be contained soley by walls
Solobill Laville: Sustain has many non-bodily implications as well :)
Solobill Laville: I have a brief "home" story...
Geo Netizen nods listening
Sylectra Darwin: I'd like to hear it.
Solobill Laville: I grew up in the northern Midwest of the US
Solobill Laville: cold winters...
Geo Netizen smiles thinking 3 snow falls already
Solobill Laville: spent many a night as a child skating outside on a friend's skating rink
Solobill Laville: I can remember being called home
Solobill Laville: and walking through the woods towards the light of my back door
Solobill Laville: and going inside
Solobill Laville: to the warmth and smell of pot roast
Solobill Laville: that is home to me
Sylectra Darwin: that's a good story of home.
Geo Netizen remembers the warm yellow light in the cold night …. beckoning
Solobill Laville: yep
Bell: *ding*
Sylectra Darwin: I think the smell of food is an important symbol of home.
Geo Netizen nods Yes
Solobill Laville nods
Sylectra Darwin: As is the warmth of an animal or a person sitting next to you.
Geo Netizen scratches Ade’s ruff at the thought
Sylectra Darwin: I am sitting now with my guy right next to me on the left and my dog on the right and I can feel the warmth from both.
Solobill Laville smiles
Sylectra Darwin: Maybe that is home.
Geo Netizen smiles
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..I am sure that home and love must somehow be connected.
Geo Netizen: Yes ................
Solobill Laville: Can there bi "home" without those things, Syl?
Adelene Dawner: I think home is different for everybody, in practice - home is what makes you feel comfortable, secure.
Adelene Dawner: And yeah, loved :)
Geo Netizen nods Yes Ade
Solobill Laville: (asked rhetorically) :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Ade.
Geo Netizen: Safe ... secure .... comfortable
Adelene Dawner: I've been putting a lot of thought, in the last few years, into what kind of place I'd live in if I had my choice. And it's kind of interesting what's important.
Geo Netizen nods listening
Sylectra Darwin: Ade, continue.
Adelene Dawner: Computer is important. Privacy is important. Pets are important. Having people I know and love nearby is important, too, but given my choice, 'neraby' would be next door, or on the same block.
Adelene Dawner: And given my choice, I'd have a very samll house.
Adelene Dawner: *small
Sylectra Darwin: so, less clutter?
Adelene Dawner: Yup. ^.^
Adelene Dawner: I mean, I *like* clutter, but it it has too much room to breed, it does get out of hand. ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
Sylectra Darwin: I feel like clutter reduces the feeling of home and the serenity that makes me feel like I am home.
Adelene Dawner: But small is good. I spend 90% of my time at home in half a room, in this one bedroom apartment.
Geo Netizen: That aspect I find varies so much from one person to another
Geo Netizen: The clutter aspect.
Kirkra Caerndow: I kind of enjoy a bit of clutter. If things are too organized it feels sterile
Adelene Dawner: Agreed, Kirkra
Geo Netizen: And I know some people who seem to revel in clutter
Geo Netizen: and other who cannot relax is there’s even a hint at clutter :)
Sylectra Darwin: an interesting difference in preferences.
Geo Netizen nods
Solobill Laville wonders if home, like love, is ultimately and fundamentally a choice on how to live
Geo Netizen nods thinking
Sylectra Darwin: Solo, how so?
Solobill Laville: Is homemy office? Is home my apartment? Is home where I grew up?
Solobill Laville: Is my home clear? "messy"? am I happ there?
Solobill Laville: *y
Sylectra Darwin: I guess I was hoping to find out how my choice of life would impact my sense of home, but perhaps that is a question only I can answer for myself.
Solobill Laville: Similaryly, do I choose to approach humanityy with love? Or as a "struggle"? These are choices
Kirkra Caerndow: I think It's a struggle for the most part
Solobill Laville: /smiles
Solobill Laville: Have you moved recently Syl?
Geo Netizen notices the raven eyeing the lions tail
Corvuscorva Nightfire worries about that tail!!!
Sylectra Darwin: yes I have.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: notices some pecking going on....
Solobill Laville nods
Sylectra Darwin: I am now 8 states from my previous home, living now in NJ
Solobill Laville: And there was a "choice of life" involved too?
Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: hmmm... I need to go, folks.
Sylectra Darwin: You always ask good questions, Solobill. Yes, a choice of life, definitely.
Geo Netizen wonders if it could get dangerous for him ….
Kirkra Caerndow: Alright
Sylectra Darwin: I have changed almost every part of my life in less than 6 months.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Adelene!
Geo Netizen: Bye Ade ..... as always its been a delight :)
Sylectra Darwin: Nite Adelene!
Solobill Laville: Night, Ade
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep good.
Geo Netizen: Yes .... do Ade
Adelene Dawner: 'nigh, Corvi-Love. 'Night, Geo-my-friend. 'Night Solo and Sylectra and Kirkra and Serafim. :)
Geo Netizen: Hi Pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Pema.
Pema Pera: Hi there! Up late everybody???
Geo Netizen: Got to talking about home
Geo Netizen wipes a tear
Solobill Laville: What does "home" seem to be to you right now, Syl?
Sylectra Darwin: hello Pema
Solobill Laville: Welcome, Pema!
Sylectra Darwin: I will settle for a sense of community and acceptance. and I will be quite happy for that!
Kirkra Caerndow: Thats a good way of definint it
Kirkra Caerndow: *defining, rather
Solobill Laville smiles at Syl
Pema Pera feels title challenged, reading the beautiful titles of Solo, Corvi, Syl . . . .
Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: Title envy
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..
Pema Pera: I can't read hundreds of languages, Solo . . .
Sylectra Darwin: yes I was intrigued by Corvi's title yesterday when I first saw it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles It's an interesting group with interesting discussions, too.
Pema Pera: Hi Sundhi!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: doesn't meet often, but when it does!
Geo Netizen: Ah yes Solobill title:Scholars regard this language as a hybrid showing features of several Prakrit dialects used around the third century BCE, subjected to a partial process of Sanskritization.
sundhi Joubert: hey pema
Kirkra Caerndow: I think that I shall take my leave. It's been good meating all of you
Pema Pera: Is your group a group, Solo? Or did you make it up?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I hope you will fly back here often!!!
Pema Pera: bye Kirkra -- any relationship to Kira?
Geo Netizen: Great to have you with us tonight Kirkra
Kirkra Caerndow: Not specifically no, just a coincidence
Pema Pera: ah, born today!!
Pema Pera: welcome here
Corvuscorva Nightfire: wb Sundhi.
Sylectra Darwin: thanks for attending Kirkra.
Kirkra Caerndow: Aye, thank you
sundhi Joubert: ty
Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/
Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night, Kirkra.
Pema Pera: nice alt!
Solobill Laville: Sorry, Pema, I was reading back..yes it is the Sutra Group...my title
Pema Pera: ah! nice title!
Geo Netizen: Tis almost 11 here so I should go too …. work day tomorrow :)
Pema Pera: Nice seeing you again Geo!
Geo Netizen: Pali is a literary language of the Prakrit language family BTW
Solobill Laville: Night, Geo
Geo Netizen: Night all
Sylectra Darwin: Geo. always a pleasure.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Geo!!
sundhi Joubert: u know sanskrit geo?
Solobill Laville: What is the relationship between Pa...and he is gone... :)
sundhi Joubert: damn...missed him
Pema Pera: :)
Sylectra Darwin: Ah well, he is a frequent visitor, try again tomorrow and you can ask him.
Pema Pera: you've all been her for two hours ???
Solobill Laville thinks Geo may be more frequent than himself... :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hour and a half.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I came late.
Solobill Laville: I got here about 45 minutes ago
Solobill Laville: Runner!
Solobill Laville is wondering, in a practical sense, what is really not a choice....
Sylectra Darwin: We have, indeed, Pema.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm going afk...I have to do something...but I'm going to park here, anyway.
Pema Pera: the best way to live is to have no choice
Pema Pera: to be really open
Sylectra Darwin: OK Corvi, we will try not to put shaving cream on you while you are gone.
Pema Pera: to live life like a jazz jam session
Solobill Laville: I'll be gone most likely upon your return, Corvi, Night!
Pema Pera: hehehe
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at them and then leaves.
Sylectra Darwin: Pema, I have been trying that approach while learning to navigate NJ streets.
Sylectra Darwin: It's freeing, and funny sometimes.
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: try NJ streets in the dark . . . while they are repairing the roads . . . .
sundhi Joubert: better hope u have no fre will
sundhi Joubert: free
Sylectra Darwin: What is interesting and funny is how NJ has 2 types of drivers...
Sylectra Darwin: the slow putterers and the fast commuters.
Corvuscorva Nightfire waves and flies 'home"
Sylectra Darwin: You can be tooling down highway 1 and the guy on your left is going 70 while the guy on your right is going 25.
Pema Pera: to be free is to have no will
Pema Pera: that's the bottom line
Pema Pera: welcome to joysee Syl!
sundhi Joubert: thsats better
Sylectra Darwin: smiles
Sylectra Darwin: Need to learn to surrender, to truely take it all in.
Solobill Laville: ...and to have no will is not to want anything...yet...
sundhi Joubert: nothing is what i want,,a true zen saying
Pema Pera: Sundhi, you see, we mix the sacred and profane, sentence by sentence :-)
Pema Pera: one moment serious, one moment silly
Sylectra Darwin: grins
sundhi Joubert: yes
Sylectra Darwin: the essence of Play as Being.
Sylectra Darwin: Well, I think I am off for the evening. More boxes for me in the morning.
Sylectra Darwin: Thanks for the great discussion!
Solobill Laville: Enjoy your home, Syl :)
Sylectra Darwin: Solobill, thank you. :)
sundhi Joubert: ye syl
Sylectra Darwin: thanks!
Solobill Laville smiles
sundhi Joubert: nite
Pema Pera: well, it's past midnight here
Pema Pera: are you going to sleep, Solo, or learn Pali instead?
sundhi Joubert: only 9:12 here
Solobill Laville: Should sleep, Pali can wait...
Pema Pera: ah, yes, the joys of the Old World!
Pema Pera: perhaps learning Pali will put you to sleep . . . .
sundhi Joubert: u learning pai
Pema Pera: oh, no, 9:12 pm Sundhi?
sundhi Joubert: pali
Solobill Laville: Reading Shobogenzo can do that too, in English!
Pema Pera: hehe
Pema Pera: Being-Time!
sundhi Joubert: yes
Solobill Laville: yup
Pema Pera: ah, okay!
Pema Pera: early indeed
Pema Pera: One Bright Pearl is one of my favorites, Solo
Pema Pera: do you know that one?
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: Yes
Pema Pera: ikkamyouju
Pema Pera: really wonderful
Pema Pera: truth is so very simple . . . .
Pema Pera: one taste
Solobill Laville: Very simple, and very deep
Solobill Laville: yes
Solobill Laville: one level, and many levels
Pema Pera: I don't think I would have like to train under Dogen, though
Pema Pera: he seemed rather strict and dour .. . .
Solobill Laville: Ha, a bit of a tickler on how to wipe yourself!!
sundhi Joubert: lol
Solobill Laville: *stickler
Pema Pera: yeah, and brush your teeth, and cook soup and clean snow
sundhi Joubert: too strict for me
Solobill Laville: yup
Pema Pera: I'd click more with someone like Trungpa
Pema Pera: wish I would have met him . . . . .
sundhi Joubert: ooohh yessssss..
Pema Pera: have either of you?
Solobill Laville: WIsh I knew S. Suzuki...
sundhi Joubert: him i could deal with:))))))
Solobill Laville: No, not Trungpa
sundhi Joubert: hahaha
Pema Pera: Suzuki must have been great too . . . . . so simple
Solobill Laville: and ... "releasing the fingers"
Pema Pera: releasing the fingers?
Solobill Laville: Active passivity
Solobill Laville: Dogen's phrase
Solobill Laville: as opposed to grabbing, yet still a choice
Pema Pera: ah!
Solobill Laville: The act of release
Pema Pera: nice
Pema Pera: About Trungpa, I mentioned him a few months ago in a PaB session: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...t=blue+pancake
Pema Pera: let's see, just a sec:
Solobill Laville: That is an old one...
Solobill Laville: :)
sundhi Joubert: i was sitting zen the same time i was with a nyingma teacher
Pema Pera: Pema Pera: Trungpa
Pema Pera: Tibetan guy
Pema Pera: very impressive and very wild
Pema Pera: he talked about dzogchen, but it could have been about PaB
Pema Pera: saying that -- I'm quoting quite freely now --
Pema Pera: it is much more radical than pulling the rug out from under you
Pema Pera: it is more like the sky falling on your head, like a big blue pancake
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: the rug leaves the rest of teh world as it is
Pema Pera: only you topple over
Wol Euler: true
Pema Pera: PaB topples over the whole world
Pema Pera: sky and all
Pema Pera: (sorry for spam)
Pema Pera: yes, Sundhi?
Pema Pera: http://www.shambhala.org/teachings/view.php?id=77
Pema Pera: is the blue pancake story
Solobill Laville: Quite a connection the creative source to envision a blue pancake...:)
Pema Pera: :)
Solobill Laville: Just great
Pema Pera: (you don't run to your neighbor, saying, I got this pancake in my hair, no, the WHOLE sky has fallen!)
Solobill Laville: Not in my neighborhood anyway :)\
Pema Pera: sorry, Sundhi, what was your story? Didn't mean to cut you off!
Pema Pera: zen and nyingma?
sundhi Joubert: yes...
Pema Pera thinking, meanwhile, already about blueberry pancakes for breakfast . . . .
sundhi Joubert: simple ...complex..or seeingly so on both ends
Pema Pera: only nine more hours to go . . . .
Pema Pera: yes, sundhi, how so?
Solobill Laville nods
Pema Pera: you mean, doing both zen and nyingma? I've done that too!
Pema Pera: very complementary
sundhi Joubert: yes...
Pema Pera: Zen like jumping in a hole and crawling upwards; nyingma descending slowly and then jumping back up
sundhi Joubert: the same..
Pema Pera: yes
sundhi Joubert: just from different diections
Pema Pera: yes!!
sundhi Joubert: but,,the zen folks were always on time...lol
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: they were pretty amazing . . . .
Pema Pera: Tang dynasty, marvelous period in human history, birth of zen in China
Pema Pera: had lunch today with a Tang specialist
Pema Pera: very rare guy, both academic specialist and actually appreciative of the truth of zen
Solobill Laville smiles appreciatively
Pema Pera: poor guy can never talk with his colleagues about his real feelings and insights . . . .
Solobill Laville: ...non-scientific...?
Pema Pera: If you teach comparitive religions in a university you are *expected* not to believe it . . .
sundhi Joubert: thats true..
Pema Pera: as if a physicist would do an experiment, read off the needles, and say: look at the fascinating correlations between the needles! But of course, they don't mean anything, I don't believe in matter!
Pema Pera: how silly that would be . . . .
sundhi Joubert: was a comparative religions grad student....
Pema Pera: but that's what happens
Pema Pera: ah, so you know!!!
sundhi Joubert: learned that in spades
Pema Pera commiserates
sundhi Joubert: and NEVER say u study sanskrit to read scripture
Solobill Laville: politico dharma
Pema Pera: you have to wash your mouth then!
sundhi Joubert: regarded as a religious nut
Pema Pera: When I was a postdoc, I didn't dare to say I went to zen retreats; I don't think I would have gotten tenure . . . .
sundhi Joubert: hahaaha......considered a bit out of round....ol
Pema Pera: sorry about taht
Solobill Laville: Only as a social scientist, Pema
Solobill Laville: And there's much less grant money there....
sundhi Joubert: well dogma is everywhere
Pema Pera: yes
sundhi Joubert: esp universities...
Pema Pera still thinking about BLUEberry pancakes . . . . time to go to sleep so that I can eat them for breakfast before too long!
Pema Pera: nice seeing you both!
sundhi Joubert: likewise
Pema Pera: nite!
Pema Pera: see you soon
sundhi Joubert: nite
Solobill Laville: Night :)
Solobill Laville: I am off to bed as well, Sundhi
Solobill Laville: NIce to meet you!
sundhi Joubert: likewise
sundhi Joubert: nite
Solobill Laville: :) be well