2008.11.23 07:00 - Purpose? No Just Sail

Adams Dubrovna was the Guardian and is responsible for the comments and the title

When I arrived, Umbriel was there sitting on the edge of the pool. We started as a duet.

Adams Dubrovna: Hello Umbriel :)
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Adams Dubrovna: How are you today?
Umbriel Levenque: Slept better thank you. Yourself?
Adams Dubrovna: That is good. Much the same
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: Oddly enough it was dark when we arrived for the session 12 hours ago

We quickly became a trio when Becky arrived. We talked about avatars not visible, weekends and habitats for a bit.

Umbriel Levenque: Supposed to be lighter?
Adams Dubrovna wondering if day ever came
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Becka :)
Becka Finesmith: Hi Adams and Umbriel
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Faenik: could be
Adams Dubrovna: Becka, you are still a cloud to me
Umbriel Levenque: I can see her alright
Becka Finesmith: My connection has been really bad this weekend for some reason
Becka Finesmith: :(
Adams Dubrovna bangs his head
Adams Dubrovna: ah
Becka Finesmith: lol - Am I Human now?
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: no not yet, but no worries, the cloud is just fine. Glad you are here
Becka Finesmith: Very nice to be here :)
Umbriel Levenque: Having a good weekend Becka?
Becka Finesmith: yes. It's been really nice this weekend :)
Becka Finesmith: I've had lots of interesting things to do. And yours?
Adams Dubrovna: Mine has been good. Had a nice walk yesterday
Umbriel Levenque is having a nice relaxing one
Becka Finesmith: We have just had a nature reserve created locally - I walked that the other week. It was very peaceful
Adams Dubrovna: That is great!
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: It is one of the good things society is doing these days
Becka Finesmith: Yes. I think it's more for peope then for nature though sadly
Faenik: why not?
Adams Dubrovna: Hmmm. In our area, there is concern for making habitats and preserving natice species
Adams Dubrovna: Grasslands for birds
Umbriel Levenque: Can be good for both animals and humans...
Adams Dubrovna: natice species
Adams Dubrovna: native species (Dubrovna tries again)
Becka Finesmith: That is true Umbriel :)
Umbriel Levenque: heheheh a bit early to type Adams?
Becka Finesmith: Where in the world are you Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: east coast US
Becka Finesmith: Ahh - OK

I play at being Guardian and Becka immediately responds and we discuss our 9 second experiences

Adams Dubrovna: Would anyone like to share their 9-second experiences?
Becka Finesmith: We were talking about responsibility at the last session and it got me thinking about free will
Becka Finesmith: I've been trying to focus on that in 9 seconds since
Adams Dubrovna: Very interersting. Would you care to say more?
Adams Dubrovna: BTW, you just appeared and you look lovely :)
Umbriel Levenque nods. Free will, a good topic
Becka Finesmith: Well, it seems we are conditioned for obedience from birth and I wondered how much that eventually impinges on our free will or is it even a behaviour that has to be quantified?
Becka Finesmith: Thank you Adams :)
Adams Dubrovna: yes Becka
Umbriel Levenque needs to learn more how to be a gentleman from Adams... ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: Haha Umbriel. You look very good too this morning
Adams Dubrovna: I have found that I have identites related to that Becka
Becka Finesmith: How so ?
Faenik: why not?
Umbriel Levenque: Thanks ^_^
Becka Finesmith: Is freedom in the material world a bit of a misnomer?

I was having trouble with my statements not appearing and the sequence is a bit confusing

Adams Dubrovna: Hmm
Adams Dubrovna: Hmm lag
Adams Dubrovna: OK, I have a statement; I will try again
Adams Dubrovna: No, not necessarily Becka
Becka Finesmith: I hate that when you type something long and it won't go :(
Adams Dubrovna: We need to learn to see clearly which you are doing now, seeing the retraints on you
Adams Dubrovna: We can remove some of those retsraints, or we can just watch them
Adams Dubrovna: I have behavior patterns from youth that conflict with what how I want to behave now
Adams Dubrovna: Fortunately, with the regular stopping, and watching, I have begun to notice them at work
Becka Finesmith: So the conflict is uncomfortable and affects your life?
Adams Dubrovna: the nine-second stopping is the key
Adams Dubrovna: Yes Becka, it has. Created confusion before I knew what they were
Becka Finesmith: So during yor 9 seconds you stop and reflect on the previous 15 mintesbehaviour?
Adams Dubrovna: No, not quite. I do various things. The exercises have helped me see
Adams Dubrovna: The stopping helps me stop what I am doing. Sometimes then I see the identity at work
Adams Dubrovna: But it is not something we can do consciously
Adams Dubrovna: We just have to let it happen
Umbriel Levenque nods...
Adams Dubrovna: I have learned the last part fairly recently
Adams Dubrovna: although I was told many times before that
Becka Finesmith: perhaps that is where I am going wrong. I am actively still trying to control. I feel I should be using the time for something my behavious until now says is constructive
Becka Finesmith: which I am beginning to understand is not the purpose

I get a chance to tell Becka about Pema's ship analogy

Adams Dubrovna: One thing I have learned the hard way, is that as long as we are at it, we are not going wrong
Adams Dubrovna: Pema talks about a ship in motion
Becka Finesmith smiles
Faenik: indeed?
Adams Dubrovna: the important thing is not to tie the ship up at dock
Adams Dubrovna: to keep sailing
Adams Dubrovna: no direction
Adams Dubrovna: just keep in motion
Adams Dubrovna: then we see things
Becka Finesmith: As you were typing that I felt a rush of understanding
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: I have sailed around in circles sometimes but have enjoyed the ride :)
Becka Finesmith: :) Nice analogy. I think I see
Umbriel Levenque: heh... better learn to fish fast if can't stop to re-stock on food ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: haha Umbriel
Becka Finesmith: lol@Umbriel
Adams Dubrovna wonders if the fish are just jumping into the boat

I missed Becka's next comment; I would have liked to have followed up and mentioned that we can llok for the part of us that is constant

Becka Finesmith: I guess the only constant is ourselves and even that is ever changing
Adams Dubrovna: I have done the retraining part very well :)
Adams Dubrovna: I have had selves coming out of the woodwork
Becka Finesmith: Interesting. That must have been unsettling at first
Umbriel Levenque: I was once told that the only thing that is constant is 'change'
Becka Finesmith nods
Adams Dubrovna: yes, sometimes it is very unsettling
Adams Dubrovna: hmm
Adams Dubrovna: lag again
Adams Dubrovna: For me that has been part of the fun
Umbriel Levenque: heh... fun ^_^
Becka Finesmith: You learn a lot about yourself.
Faenik: could be
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Adams Dubrovna: Things I could never imagine
Becka Finesmith: what opened your eyes the most?
Adams Dubrovna: Stopping and recording the stops so I can see what is going on is the most help to seeing

Fael joined us making it a quartet

Adams Dubrovna: The more regularly I stop, the more the ship is in motion
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Becka, U :)
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Umbriel Levenque: Let me make a notecard of what we've discussed so far Fael
Becka Finesmith: Sorry - serious lag again
Adams Dubrovna: Thanks Umbriel
Becka Finesmith: Hi Fael
Becka Finesmith: Fael is who was discussing these things with me this morning :)
Adams Dubrovna: Ah
Adams Dubrovna: Fael was a big help to me when I started PaB in June. Fael had been here a week and was a great mentor to me
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Umbriel Levenque: Pleasure
Becka Finesmith: :)
Becka Finesmith: Fael made me think very deeply this morning :)
Adams Dubrovna: From what you said this morning, and what I have seen on the logs, you are off to a great start :)
Fael Illyar smiles 'Yes, it does look like you're off to a great start.'
Becka Finesmith: Who me Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Becka Finesmith: OK. Thank you

And then the journey again....

Becka Finesmith: I feel I have a long journey ahead
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Fael Illyar: We all have. It'll last until we die :)
Becka Finesmith: and maybe beyond :)
Fael Illyar: ... at least until we die.
Adams Dubrovna: ah lag again
Faenik: なるほど^^
Adams Dubrovna: where's my line?
Adams Dubrovna: Try again. The journey is in the movement, no destination (I have to rememebr that too)
Adams Dubrovna: Me try again, not you
Umbriel Levenque nods... each moment counts
Adams Dubrovna: Always tring to see reality, to watch
Fael Illyar: What I was trying to say in the morning is that, you do control yourself. It's just that you refuse to recognise that control as yours and therefore won't even consider that it could be changed how you do it.
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, Fael, our identities prevent us from seing clearly

I bring up time and the thread turns to judging, and then punishment

Adams Dubrovna: Pema, likes to talk about time. Taking out the time element puts everything in the moment. Then no destination
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Dubrovna: just what we are doing now
Becka Finesmith: that's an interesting concept
Fael Illyar: the past and the future only exist in our imagination. Even a large portion of now is like that too.
Becka Finesmith: Doesn't past and future give now meaning? What is it without a relation to these two other things?
Becka Finesmith: what is "Now" imean
Adams Dubrovna: We can view this narrowly or in relative terms...
Umbriel Levenque nods... only if one doesn't try to 'control' Now with looking further into the past or the future imo
Fael Illyar: maybe we judge ourselves because we fail to see that it is ourselves we're judging?
Adams Dubrovna: and then it is not such a serious question
Adams Dubrovna: our ship is sailing
Adams Dubrovna: there is no destination
Adams Dubrovna: there really hasn't been a starting point
Adams Dubrovna: we are just sailing, learning to se more cl;early
Becka Finesmith: I agree with you Fael - I realised a while back that I am really looking in a mirror at the world
Fael Illyar: and at the same time, the part of us that applies the punishment does see it's ourselves and the punishment does go to the right address.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Becka Finesmith nods
Fael Illyar is suddenly wondering how come the part that applies the punishment doesn't stop doing it when the punishment hits ... perhaps it isolates itself somehow.
Umbriel Levenque: Judging and punishing happen because one tries to 'control'... mostly the future
Becka Finesmith: Perhaps punishment needs to affirm it's existance
Becka Finesmith: needs to be fed somehow for some reason
Umbriel Levenque: It is easy to forget that there are so much which is not under our control...
Fael Illyar: We do have a natural tendency to try to keep change to a minimum and suddenly not punishing feels unfamiliar and dangerous.
Adams Dubrovna scratching his head, wondering how the conversation turned to punishment
Fael Illyar: oh, that was the main thread this morning, actually :)
Adams Dubrovna: ?
Umbriel Levenque: ah... ^_^
Becka Finesmith: [7:45] Fael Illyar is suddenly wondering how come the part that applies the punishment doesn't stop doing it when the punishment hits ... perhaps it isolates itself somehow.
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: started with talk about control though :)
Umbriel Levenque: Because... one thinks of the judging part separate from oneself perhaps
Becka Finesmith: yes. and what I considered to be the illusion of control.
Becka Finesmith: which led me to free will
Umbriel Levenque can't make the rain stop ^_^
Fael Illyar: well, an umbrella will stop it for limited area ;)
Umbriel Levenque: heh... true
Fael Illyar: also, the houses we live in do stop it :)
Fael Illyar: and they're our creation ... well, nowadays not likely your own but still ...
Umbriel Levenque: Just need to see there is a limit to 'control'... 'no man's an island'
Becka Finesmith: And maybe we shouldn't worry about stopping the rain. Fael taught me that we can allow these things to go on around us without the need to feel we are not in control
Becka Finesmith: I have to leave :( This has been a lovely hour seont :) Thank you :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Becka :)
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, good to toalk with you this mornng Becka. bye for now :)
Umbriel Levenque: Enjoy the rest of the weekend Becka ^_^
Becka Finesmith: Bye Fael, Adams and Umbriel
Becka Finesmith: namaste

Becka leaves here; "A Rose by any other name.."

Fael Illyar: does one of you perhaps know how often a rose in a pot needs water?
Adams Dubrovna: potted plant?
Fael Illyar: yes
Umbriel Levenque: You gauge by touching the soil...
Umbriel Levenque is not good at keeping things alive
Fael Illyar is doing her best to learn :)
Adams Dubrovna: Different roses have different needs; soil best in dicator (I was just told)
Adams Dubrovna: indicator
Faenik: why not?
Adams Dubrovna: there are swamp roses
Fael Illyar: red rose, this one. pretty small one :)
Fael Illyar: not even flowering yet.
Fael Illyar: small red buds peeking .
Adams Dubrovna: If you know the kind, you could look it up
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adams Dubrovna: Well this has been a great session. Much different from last week when many new people were popping in and out
Umbriel Levenque: Yes it has been nice
Fael Illyar: Yes, it's nice to get new people but rather distracting for conversation :)
Adams Dubrovna: especially when they really don;t care
Fael Illyar: Yep
Umbriel Levenque: Must be off now. See you later Adams and Fael.
Fael Illyar: See you later U :)
Adams Dubrovna: Have a great day all!
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hope to see you later
Fael Illyar: you too :)