2008.11.08 19:00 - Pile Up at the Pagoda

Instead of having one weekly guardian session, in which we invite more PaB guardians to come to meet each other, we are now switching to four such sessions per week. For a few months we met at 8 am SLT on Sundays. During the new experiment, we will meet at 7 pm SLT on Saturdays, at 1 pm SLT on Sundays, at 7 am SLT on Mondays, and at 1 am SLT on Tuesdays.

I, Genesis stepped in for Stim today as Guardian the comment below are mine.

I arrived at the pagoda to Geo, Adelene, and Doug. Adelene was sitting at Geo's feet and I had to comment.

Geo Netizen: Hi Genesis
Geo Netizen bows
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Geo!
Adelene Dawner: Hi Gen.
Adelene Dawner: Hi doug. :)
genesis Zhangsun: you two look cozy ;)
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Adelene
Geo Netizen: Hi Doug
Geo Netizen: O ... it's very cozy :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Doug!
doug Sosa: hi all.
Geo Netizen: There’s nothing quit like a big cat in your lap :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Adelene Dawner: I'll have to add a cat-in-my-lap poseball setup to my new guardian plot ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: Wow!
Bell: *ding*
genesis Zhangsun: levitating
Adelene Dawner: Feeling antisocial, Doug?
genesis Zhangsun: Pema will not be making it
genesis Zhangsun: I am subbing
Geo Netizen nods
doug Sosa: no, do i look more so?
genesis Zhangsun: I offered to give him a break :)
Adelene Dawner: Well, you're alla way over there.
Geo Netizen: :)
doug Sosa: purr.
Adelene Dawner: There. Better.
genesis Zhangsun: lol
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: does this mean you'll come and keep me warm over here at some point?
Adelene Dawner: Perhaps. You never know, with cats. ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: So shall we commence?
doug Sosa: yes.
genesis Zhangsun: I am not sure what the format is this being a PaB meeting/Guardian meeting
Geo Netizen: Panthera leo is in such demand I think I picked the wrong skin
Geo Netizen nods
doug Sosa: i have been traveling so feel out of the flow. briefly, what has been happening?
doug Sosa: May be an impossible question.

Indeed an impossible question but I felt I could at least brief Doug on the new dialogue format.

genesis Zhangsun: Well we started the dialogues
genesis Zhangsun: what do we think about that?
Adelene Dawner chuckles at Geo. "I don't think you're a lion, anyway..." *ponders Geo*
Geo Netizen: :)
doug Sosa: dialogues?
You: Yes Doug
Geo Netizen: What have others said so far about the dialogues?
Geo Netizen: Any input?
genesis Zhangsun: Pema has suggested a new format for the PaB sessions
genesis Zhangsun: or perhaps it is more of a complement to then a substitute for
genesis Zhangsun: but basically various guardians engage one another in dialogues or certain themes of interest
genesis Zhangsun: first 30 minutes is dialogue
genesis Zhangsun: nexgt 30 min open to the floor
genesis Zhangsun: the first was in my session last Tuesday between Pema and Stim
genesis Zhangsun: I personally really enjoyed it
doug Sosa: how was it?
doug Sosa: ah
genesis Zhangsun: I think it is a great way to bring some new life into it
Adelene Dawner: It seems like a good idea, but I was kind of elsewhere the day they gave it, so I can't say much. I've been talking to Corvi about the two of us perhaps doing one, though.
Geo Netizen: I was at the 7 am session this morning between Pema and Wol …
genesis Zhangsun: and I feel like now the guardians have grown enough that we have a lot we could contribute in this format
genesis Zhangsun: yes Adelene that would be wonderful
doug Sosa: I need to listen for a while.
genesis Zhangsun: I thought about you and Wol
doug Sosa: what about us?

I interpreted Doug's comment as a request to start a dialogue between the two of us.

genesis Zhangsun: :)
doug Sosa: ??
genesis Zhangsun: Right now right here
genesis Zhangsun: ?
genesis Zhangsun: hehe
genesis Zhangsun: ready Doug?
doug Sosa: for?
genesis Zhangsun: the dialectic to begin!
genesis Zhangsun: I was sort of half jokinh
doug Sosa: between?
genesis Zhangsun: Oh sorry I thought you meant by "what about us" as in what about me and you engaging in a dialogue
doug Sosa: just got off a plane. hed still foggy. slow witted.
doug Sosa: but ok.
genesis Zhangsun: np :)
genesis Zhangsun: well as I said I was half joking
doug Sosa: but the other half..
genesis Zhangsun: I think because this is also doubling as a Guardian meeting keeping it open to the entire group might be a good idea
genesis Zhangsun: but rain check?
genesis Zhangsun: I'd love to do one too ;)
doug Sosa: or lets go on. how do we start?
genesis Zhangsun: what do you think Adelne and Geo?
Geo Netizen: Its ok with me .... topic?
genesis Zhangsun: Doug?
doug Sosa: how is this space different from the old pavalion?

This was not really the type of topic I had in mind but I decided to go along :)

Adelene Dawner: Sure, go ahead.
genesis Zhangsun: hehe
Geo Netizen nods
genesis Zhangsun: I'm sure Storm would love this topic
doug Sosa: Maybe not. But it raises the question, is critical reflection possible? Has there been any ?
genesis Zhangsun: Oh sure...I think Storm sent out an email asking for feedback and I read a couple of people's comments
genesis Zhangsun: seems like overall people like it but some felt that it feels a little cold
genesis Zhangsun: and less intimate
doug Sosa: . t me it is captured in ade's question "why are you so far away"?
genesis Zhangsun: yeah I hear that
genesis Zhangsun: so what do you think Doug?
doug Sosa: i feel so out of the loop but I am thinking of the emperor's new clothes.
Geo Netizen ?
doug Sosa: the tailor made a new suit - of nothing - and convnced the emperor it was the best latest style. "Ah, so beautiful" everyone said.
Bell: *ding*
doug Sosa: But a little boy said "hey, he hasn't got ny clothes on!"
genesis Zhangsun: by nothing is this a comment on the minimalism or more like nothing good has come of the move ;)
doug Sosa: i found the older site cozier, warmer. this is beautiful, but austere.
genesis Zhangsun: that is the word that came to mind for me too
genesis Zhangsun: austere
doug Sosa: so has it been discussed?
genesis Zhangsun: Check out the email from Storm if you get a chance
genesis Zhangsun: I think he would appreciate your feedback
genesis Zhangsun: I think he is open to making changes
genesis Zhangsun: otherwise I don't think he would have opened it up for discussion
genesis Zhangsun: one thing people mentioned was the bell
genesis Zhangsun: or lack thereof
doug Sosa: It is also very grand
genesis Zhangsun: people wanted to bring it back
genesis Zhangsun: it would also be nice to have the logo
doug Sosa: yes. This would be better if the water were a little lower and there waas no raised rim.
genesis Zhangsun: I think another session people talked about this issue
Geo Netizen nods
genesis Zhangsun: probably several
genesis Zhangsun: so do you think we should move back?
doug Sosa: I find that what i think and want to talk about is very related to the particular people present. Hard to imgine it being read. makes me very much more conservative in what i say. But maybe not enought :)
genesis Zhangsun: haha
genesis Zhangsun: :)
doug Sosa: shh!
doug Sosa: :)

I thought about what Doug said about the austerity and looking around the new location I realized that this place for some reason suited my mood in PaB better than the other one at this moment in time. I wondered perhaps not only for me but for the whole group?

genesis Zhangsun: it is kind of interesting though perhaps says something about the way we are going as a group?
genesis Zhangsun: moving can be a big deal
genesis Zhangsun: emotionally
Geo Netizen: Can you expand on that Genesis?
genesis Zhangsun: hard to put into words
doug Sosa: there ave been so many changes from a small group, intimate, unrecoreded, ..
genesis Zhangsun: but I feel as though this place and the fact that is so minimalistic comapred to the other place fit the progression of the group
genesis Zhangsun: the other place had almost a party atmossphere
genesis Zhangsun: party is over
genesis Zhangsun: ;)
Geo Netizen: Do you think the founders feel that things have gotten a little out of control?
doug Sosa: i tried to sit on the rim but it wouldn't let me.
genesis Zhangsun: no not at all
Geo Netizen nods
Adelene Dawner hmms at Geo.
genesis Zhangsun: it is the natural progression
genesis Zhangsun: In the beginning I think many of us had a lot to say
genesis Zhangsun: I feel these days we are more introspective
Adelene Dawner: The thing is, this place has been built for months. So even if there was something intentional about it, it's not about anything recent.
genesis Zhangsun: I feel quieter
Geo Netizen: /m nods thinking
genesis Zhangsun: yes this is true Adelene
genesis Zhangsun: I guess I am not talking about anyone's intention to create this moment
genesis Zhangsun: but just how this moment is
genesis Zhangsun: arrived at in all sorts of fateful/chaotic ways
Adelene Dawner: And actually I feel like the move is in the opposite direction from how I've been going... introspective, yes, but we've also gotten closer as a group and this place doesn't reflect that at all.
Geo Netizen Ahh thinks of chaos :)
doug Sosa: I feel like I am in Dubai

I couldn't hold back on this one...

genesis Zhangsun: HAHAHA!!!
Geo Netizen: :)
genesis Zhangsun: You are too funny Doug
Adelene Dawner looks at her screen - that's one talented Doug, sneaking out from under a lion without disturbing her.
doug Sosa: ah, got it.
genesis Zhangsun: hehe
doug Sosa: big group hug.
genesis Zhangsun: Its a pile up!!!

Before I knew it we were all piled up on eachother almost in a spontaneous revolt against the idea that we could/should be separated!  It is too impossible to describe how funny this looked so Adelene kindly snapped a picture which is included here :) 

genesis Zhangsun: lol
doug Sosa: amazing.
genesis Zhangsun: this is better
genesis Zhangsun: we need a picture of this
Geo Netizen: Ahhh .. can't get turned around
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene will you do the honors
doug Sosa: they will never understand the transcript :) :)
doug Sosa: no picture! :)
genesis Zhangsun: no one move!!
Geo Netizen: Pile up !!!!
genesis Zhangsun: we need a picture
Adelene Dawner: hold on, I have to turn the particles off.
Adelene Dawner: ok :)
doug Sosa: So good to know we can sit on the edge and put our feet in!
genesis Zhangsun: So yes Adelene we have all become very close
genesis Zhangsun: and seems like we are not going to let the pavilion get in the way hehe
Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: ^.^

The pile up was too much for my computer and SL crashed.  The log for this portion was sent to me by Adelene.
Adelene Dawner: Hm, we lost Gen, too.

genesis Zhangsun: and seems like we are not going to let the pavilion get in the way hehe
Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
doug Sosa: what an evening! But I must needs to dinner.... so I must say bye
Adelene Dawner: ok, Doug. See you. :)
Geo Netizen: Ah ... bye Doug Enjoy your dinner
doug Sosa: co-creation this was.
Adelene Dawner: Hm, we lost Gen, too.
Adelene Dawner: Oh, there you are. :)
Geo Netizen: :)
genesis Zhangsun: System couldn't handle the pile up :)
genesis Zhangsun: crashed
Geo Netizen: I'm just trying to stay still .....
Geo Netizen: don't want to go into ....
Adelene Dawner: hehe
Adelene Dawner: You know what would be neat?
Adelene Dawner: I could script it, even...
Geo Netizen nods listening
Geo Netizen: /hug Ade
Adelene Dawner: some kind of scripted seating system. Get rid of these cushions, put a thing somewhere, and when you click on it it rezzes a cushion right at your feet.
Adelene Dawner: 'lo Claire. :)
Geo Netizen: Hi Claire
Geo Netizen: Did we lose Genesis?
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
Adelene Dawner: In fact... Yeah, I'll script that up. I know the perfect place to test it.
Geo Netizen: That sounds like a good project for vacation time :)
Geo Netizen: What the hec !!
Adelene Dawner: Oh, there you are. :)

I finally got my system to stablize... and when I returned Claire had joined us.

genesis Zhangsun: Yikes!
Geo Netizen: Welcome back Gensis :)
genesis Zhangsun: Sorry Geo
genesis Zhangsun: complete crash
genesis Zhangsun: we lost some people along the way I see
Claire Beltran: Hi, Genesis ^-^/
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Claire!
Geo Netizen: O ... lost and gained :)
Claire Beltran: I just arrived.
genesis Zhangsun: Is that ball of light Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: Probably.
Geo Netizen: Yes ... she's afk
Adelene Dawner: I had an idea while you were gone, Gen.
genesis Zhangsun: yes share
Adelene Dawner: Adelene Dawner: You know what would be neat?Adelene Dawner: I could script it, even... Adelene Dawner: some kind of scripted seating system. Get rid of these cushions, put a thing somewhere, and when you click on it it rezzes a cushion right at your feet.
Geo Netizen nods
Adelene Dawner: The cushion-rezzer thing could look like a pile of cushions - it'd be neat. :)
genesis Zhangsun: So this would allow us to pile up with cushions! Yeah!
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Adelene Dawner: Definitely an improvement.
Geo Netizen: Less structure …. more spontaneity
genesis Zhangsun: yes seriously I like it
Geo Netizen: Offset some of the austerity that some feel
Adelene Dawner: My new guardian plot is right by an empty building that Storm put up, but isn't using for anything - I think I'll try it out there. ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: Try it ou!
genesis Zhangsun: *out
Adelene Dawner: Maybe set it up so you have a choice of cushions, even - make some with good anims for lions. ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Geo Netizen laughs
Geo Netizen: Yes :)

I remembered that earlier Adelene had mentioned the idea of doing a dialogue with Corvi and was curious as to what the theme could be...

genesis Zhangsun: Adelene you mentioned a dialogue between you and Corvi what would this be about?
Claire Beltran: Oh, could you excuse me for a moment?
genesis Zhangsun: sure Claire
Adelene Dawner: cya, Claire :)
Claire Beltran: I'll be back shortly.
Bell: *ding*
Geo Netizen: Certainly
Geo Netizen nods listening for Ade
Adelene Dawner: Well, Corvi and I have been talking on our own about flexibility and metaflixibility and metagility... we've talked some in the group, too, about those things, but we're gone deeper on our own. It'd be neat to bring those ideas back to the group at large, but we tend to get sidetracked when we have tried before.
Geo Netizen: that sound like a great topic for a dialogue
Geo Netizen: I’d love to be present for it
genesis Zhangsun: is this flexibility, meta and metagility a wu wei like concept?
Adelene Dawner: :)
genesis Zhangsun: me too :)
Adelene Dawner: Related, but not the same as wu wei.
genesis Zhangsun: could you say more about that?
Adelene Dawner: Pema's compared wu wei to a dance... learning metaflexibility and metagility is like learning steps in that dance.
Geo Netizen: A though … when there’s a specific topic for one of the meetings, could email be sent out so that we can know about it ahead of time?
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm so the dance has steps but then you adjust which set of "steps" you apply when the moment comes?
genesis Zhangsun: so is it like learning a preset of steps which could serve as a good toolgenesis Zhangsun: like more tools in the tool box? or more dance steps in your repetoire?
Adelene Dawner: Yes, Geo... and pretty much, Genesis. Think of it this way: it's easier to play jazz if you know more about how a sazophone works.
Adelene Dawner: (you typed more, to which I say: exactly right.)
genesis Zhangsun: thats very interesting Adelene
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm :)
genesis Zhangsun: great to break complex concepts down into smaller complex concepts

The more I thought about it this was probably a great direction for PaB to go and the dialogue format is perfect for exactly this sort of parsing down of larger themes into bite size morsels and in doing so figuring out what smaller component these larger themes may consist of in order to create a clearer picture.

Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
genesis Zhangsun: seriously good start :)
Geo Netizen: Yes ... I would love to hear more
genesis Zhangsun: Geo I haven't talked to you much how do you gind out meetings?
Geo Netizen: Your perspective is always interesting unique Ade :)
genesis Zhangsun: *find
Adelene Dawner butts Geo with her head.
Adelene Dawner growls at her SL client. :P
Geo Netizen: I usually thinks about the discussion for a long time after the meeting …
Geo Netizen: That must mean that there serious content …l
Adelene Dawner: ... ... ... it's hailing, in RL. Or something. There are solid things hitting my window and I don't like it.
genesis Zhangsun: storm?
Geo Netizen: even if the format is, at time, chaotic …
Geo Netizen: O ....
Adelene Dawner: rain... and solid things.
Adelene Dawner: getting stormy, a little. *goes to look out window*
Geo Netizen: Everything ok Ade ??
genesis Zhangsun: yes Geo the format can be chaotic
Geo Netizen: But that makes it very engaging for me anyway
genesis Zhangsun: I have been thinking lately about the relationship between order and chaos
Geo Netizen: In a way, I’d hate to lose that dynamic
Geo Netizen: O .... good topic
genesis Zhangsun: Yes that is perhaps a dialogue worthy one

After Adelene was gone for a little while Geo and I began to worry a bit about the hail storm... 

Geo Netizen: Ade , everything ok ??
genesis Zhangsun: Yes Adelene?
Adelene Dawner returns.
Geo Netizen: :))
Adelene Dawner: Yes, just rain now.
Adelene Dawner: Oo, Gen, I'd like to hear about that - but that seems more like a topic for open discussion, perhaps?
Geo Netizen: The contrariness of nature in the face of the second law of thermodynamic !!
genesis Zhangsun: what are your thought Ade
genesis Zhangsun: wow Geo! Care to expand
Geo Netizen: I have to go soon … I was just suggesting that as a great topic :)

 Ah what a cliff hanger but hopefully a topic that we will take up again!

Geo Netizen: And Ade, I think I prefer the open discussions ...
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm, for most things I very much agree, Geo.
Geo Netizen: I did think that a colloquium format .... 5 or 10 minute presentation on a topic
Geo Netizen: followed by open discussion might be fun
Geo Netizen nods
genesis Zhangsun: I think that the dialogues are a great complement but I agree not a substitute
genesis Zhangsun: thats a good format too Geo
Bell: *ding*
genesis Zhangsun: but difficult to get something down in that short time
genesis Zhangsun: especially considering the complexity sometimes of topics
Geo Netizen reaches over and scratches Ade’s ruff …
Geo Netizen: But it doesn't have to be complet ... just an opening to discussion
Geo Netizen: Sort of set the tone or direction
Adelene Dawner stares off into space, mentally elsewhere...
Geo Netizen: but the group can take it elsewhere
genesis Zhangsun: Yes Geo good point
Geo Netizen: if that seems good
genesis Zhangsun: Yes Geo
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps we can suggest something like that
genesis Zhangsun: or perhaps Pema reading this could consider it ;)
genesis Zhangsun: Well I must be going
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene would you mind sending me the log where I dropped off? And the pic?
Geo Netizen: O ... good night Genesis
genesis Zhangsun: Good night Geo :)
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to finally spend some time with you :)
Adelene Dawner: Sure, Gen, I'll email you.
genesis Zhangsun: ty Adelene
Adelene Dawner: np
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to see you too Adelene :)
genesis Zhangsun: take care :)
Geo Netizen: U 2