2008.11.14 07:00 - Emotions and logics

Gaya replaced quen for this session and comments are hers. She joined Becka as the bell announced the hour (do we have a new regular and from Europe?). Corvi and Susi soon joined them.

Becka Finesmith: Hi Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Becka, Gaya
Becka Finesmith: I finished my assignment :) Such a weight lifted
Becka Finesmith: Hello Corvuscorva
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: how are you Corvi?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: assignment?
Becka Finesmith: Uni assignment
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm fine, how are you, Gaya?
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: well ty ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: do you have more to do Becka?
Becka Finesmith: oh yes - This is the second of 8 then an exam
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Becka Finesmith: I just finished last years course. I get the results in December
Gaya Ethaniel: at least you've got some time until the next deadline hits I suppose ^^
Becka Finesmith: 3 weeks !
Becka Finesmith: I have a book to read before then. This one is a lot more hectic then I expected
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Susi!
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... what is the subject you study? is it physics?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Susi Alcott: Hi cor
Becka Finesmith: Hi Susi
Becka Finesmith: Yes Gaya - It's Physics
Susi Alcott: Hi Becka
Susi Alcott: hi gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: how are you Susi?
Susi Alcott: fine
Susi Alcott: how r U ?
Gaya Ethaniel: getting better with this flu ty ^^
Susi Alcott: good to hear
Becka Finesmith: This fountain is so peaceful

As a dutiful guardian on call as ever, I try to steer the conversation onto 9-sec and PaB topics.

Susi Alcott: I interrupted something urgent?
Gaya Ethaniel: no we just started really
Susi Alcott: ok
Gaya Ethaniel: do you have something you want to discuss in particular Susi?
Susi Alcott: no
Gaya Ethaniel is being a good guardian on call
Becka Finesmith: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Gaya
Faenik: why not?
Gaya Ethaniel: can I suppose you employ a scientific approach to things in life Becka?
Becka Finesmith: I like to think so but not always
Becka Finesmith: In the past, I've been led too much by emotions when a logical approach would have been better
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Becka Finesmith: I'm very sensitive to people’s emotions
Becka Finesmith: at least I think so, I always get it wrong though
Becka Finesmith: if I approached in a logical way, I would get it right more often but would I lose some empathy?
Gaya Ethaniel: would it be possible to deploy two or more different approaches at the same time?
Becka Finesmith: IN some situations, when everything is crashing around you, you just simply react I guess
Becka Finesmith: a step back would be a start :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Becka Finesmith: or to train yourself to have a different reaction

Someone steals Corvi away…

Susi Alcott: how can everything crash around one ?
Gaya Ethaniel: one feels that way at times I guess
Becka Finesmith: INteresting question Susi. What do you mean? I can explain with an example if you like?
Susi Alcott: pls do
Becka Finesmith: OK. for example.....
Faenik: could be
Becka Finesmith: My Daughter has screaming episodes as part of her epilepsy
Becka Finesmith: I know they are unintentional and she can't help it
Becka Finesmith: But I get upset about it rather then dealing with it logically
Gaya Ethaniel: must be difficult Becka...
Becka Finesmith: the difference is the difference between getting upset at seeing her like that or just rationalising it in your head. You never know when it will happen
Corvuscorva Nightfire quietly excuses herself, as she is being called.
Becka Finesmith: I feel really upset for her when it happens.
Gaya Ethaniel: may I suggest that feeling upset at 'screaming' is natural?
Gaya Ethaniel: (perhaps more upsetting in your circumstances)
Becka Finesmith: of course - It is. But under these circumstances, it has no benefits
Becka Finesmith: I would rather approach that event without emotion
Susi Alcott: so what is that has benefits
Becka Finesmith: Having an emotional response has no benefit
 Gaya Ethaniel: mm...
Gaya Ethaniel ponders
Susi Alcott: what do U exactly do when this happens ?
Gaya Ethaniel: what I meant by 'natural' was that one cannot help being upset at 'screaming'
Susi Alcott: why?
Becka Finesmith: I sit and hold her hand. As the volume increases it starts to set of this emotional response. Sometimes we mutually cry. Then it's all over.
Susi Alcott: does the cry ease?
Becka Finesmith: Exactly Gaya. I agree. But it would be nice to be able to suppress the response under these circumstances
Becka Finesmith: The screaming just suddenly ceases but then she gets upset because it has happened. Do you know what Tourettes Syndrome is?
Gaya Ethaniel: I know Becka what you are trying to do... but in my case, suppressing emotions (esp reactionary ones) hasn't been helpful
Becka Finesmith nods@Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel nods. I am familiar with that disorder. A close family member has it
Becka Finesmith: that's the thing isn't it - it must come out at some point
Susi Alcott: is it worse when she is upset or when she's screaming?
Becka Finesmith: ok - Well, my Daughter doesn't have that but these episodes are similar in that she has no control
Gaya Ethaniel nods I understand
Becka Finesmith: Susi - That's a very good question but I'm not sure I can answer that. It all blends into one thing after the event so I can't separate them
Gaya Ethaniel: for me when ticks start, I see that it upsets/irritates me
Faenik: could be
Susi Alcott: do you understand why I made that question?
Gaya Ethaniel: but I've been learning to respond better without letting these emotions affecting me so much
Becka Finesmith: Yes Susi
Susi Alcott: ty
Becka Finesmith: Is it feelings for myself or for her
Susi Alcott: no
Becka Finesmith: oh - then I don't :(
Susi Alcott: I repeat my this question; does the cry help
Becka Finesmith: Ahh - Yes. It releases the tension but it does make me sleepy
Susi Alcott: so; that it makes U sleepi is another thing
Susi Alcott: but the answer to the question is 'yes'
Susi Alcott: is it big ‘yes’?
Becka Finesmith: it is
Susi Alcott: do You now understand why I make questions?
Becka Finesmith: I think so. Perhaps nothing needs changing.
Susi Alcott: it was a question of all the crash around

For my own situation, it is ‘acceptance’ that has been at the root but it seems Becka is dealing with slightly different issues with her daughter’s condition.

Gaya Ethaniel: there is something I'm not quite clear Becka
Becka Finesmith: yes Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: when you get upsets at these screaming episodes, is it the screaming itself that upsets you (as in natural reaction) or the situation that upsets you?
Faenik: ah :)
Becka Finesmith: I think it's seeing her with this lack of control that upsets me but now we are talking about it (I haven't done that before), maybe I haven't really ever analysed why because I'm a little unsure of the root
Gaya Ethaniel: ok I can only speak from my experience
Gaya Ethaniel: for me, more I accepted that ticks have to come out (actually positive that they do), less upset I got
Gaya Ethaniel: I struggled a while to accept that it can't be otherwise
Becka Finesmith: I understand. Do you mean your own ticks or your family Member?
Gaya Ethaniel: my family member
Becka Finesmith: ok - So you are in a similar position. Are you close?
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Becka Finesmith: OK - So similar emotions then
Gaya Ethaniel: but the 'natural' reaction of being upset
Becka Finesmith: And now what do you do when they happen?
Gaya Ethaniel: that's separate thing I had to deal with
Gaya Ethaniel: first may I suggest you do a 9 sec stop when you see yourself upset on the onset off the episode
Gaya Ethaniel: it would force you to take a break/step back from the situation so to speak

As I listen to Becka more, I hear my inner judge start telling me how useless I am in comparison to someone like Becka. I listen to him carefully and when he finishes I say “thank you for sharing your opinions. I will consider them after the session.”

Susi Alcott: may I ask something more ?
Becka Finesmith: of course
Becka Finesmith: (Good advice Gaya)
Susi Alcott: U told to hold her hand
Susi Alcott: is she too big to take and hug ?
Gaya Ethaniel: well start with that Becka ^^ one thing at a time. we can talk more once you've tried this perhaps
Becka Finesmith: So we hug all the time
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Becka Finesmith: She is 21 but also has Downs Syndrome - Hugging isn't a problem.
Becka Finesmith: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm amazed you manage to study also ^^
Susi Alcott: can U beck tell what is the main reason that U avoid the cry ?
Becka Finesmith: @Gaya - And I have a full time job! Luckily, they let me work from home a lot.
Gaya Ethaniel 's jaw drops
Becka Finesmith: @Susi I don't want her to think I'm upset with her
Susi Alcott: even the cry do help ?
Faenik: could be
Susi Alcott: is not the screaming that is the crisis ?
Becka Finesmith: Yes - It helps a lot at the end but not whilst it is happening
Becka Finesmith: yes - exactly Susi
Susi Alcott: to intelligent person
Susi Alcott: that is often very difficult to depart different things happening so together
Becka Finesmith: Seperating everything that happens in those periods is difficult
Susi Alcott: but you did much that now
Faenik: could be
Becka Finesmith: Yes. Talking about it helps to separate things out
Susi Alcott: always
Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_

For a weeks or so, my focus has been on ‘focusing’ to avoid ‘overloads’ and this obviously shows… for Becka, ‘shutting down’ is not an option as I do sometimes.

Gaya Ethaniel: I have found 'focusing' very helpful Becka when feeling overwhelmed
Becka Finesmith: TY Susi
Susi Alcott: you are welcome Becka
Gaya Ethaniel: would it be correct for me to think that you try to be helpful to your daughter while trying to be calm yourself and so on?
Becka Finesmith: Yes. I always try and focus on my breathing when it happens but that's a practice I haven't mastered in the heat of the moment
Becka Finesmith: It's one of those things you can't walk away from
Becka Finesmith: yes Gaya. Although I think she is quite oblivious to what is happening around her when it happens
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: (so she won't necessarily notice much if you cry or no)
Gaya Ethaniel: what I mean is
Becka Finesmith: she does because that usually doesn't happen until she starts to come out of it. A kind of release mechanism I guess
Gaya Ethaniel: after taking 9 sec (say taking a deep breath and focus here), would it be possible to focus on your daughter's needs only? and not worry about how you're, ie crying
Gaya Ethaniel: more you focus on your daughter, you would become naturally calmer
Becka Finesmith: That would be something I would have to try.
Gaya Ethaniel: crying because you feel for your daughter is natural and helpful for you so it'd help to accept this and just not worry about it during the episode perhaps?
Becka Finesmith: I think you are right. She knows I'm not angry with her or anything.
Gaya Ethaniel: for myself... crying mainly happened because I felt helpless
Gaya Ethaniel: more I focus on comforting and supporting, calmer I got with the acceptance of the whole situation
Gaya Ethaniel: the trick was for me to step back initially not to get overwhelmed
Gaya Ethaniel: so I suggested doing a 9 sec at the onset
Faenik: indeed?
Gaya Ethaniel: (well... that was before PaB so I did a short breathing exercise instead)
Becka Finesmith: You are probably right about the helplessness Gaya. I will try that :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: but you must be so proud of yourself in a way... to accept your daughter and manage all RL.
Becka Finesmith: This has been really helpful :)
Gaya Ethaniel: easier said than done. I am not always succeeding myself
Becka Finesmith: I never think about it like that. I must do from now on

The session slowly draws to a close.

Gaya Ethaniel: Becka... I think you're amazing. not sure if I can manage what you do to be honest
Gaya Ethaniel: give yourself some pat on your back sometimes ^^
Becka Finesmith: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: and someone's here 4 times a day to talk to ^^
Gaya Ethaniel promises that she would listen more next time
Becka Finesmith: I'm really happy for what you have said. Thank you :)
Gaya Ethaniel: pleasure Becka. glad it helped somehow ^_^
Gaya Ethaniel: hope we can talk more next time how 9 sec helps
Becka Finesmith: it did. Exactly. I will try over the weekend and see where it takes me
Gaya Ethaniel: please tell us more
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah sorry you will
Becka Finesmith: I just realised what Faenik is :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Susi Alcott: sry I also must go again
Gaya Ethaniel: look forward to talking to you again next week then Becka
Gaya Ethaniel: same here must attend RL
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Becka Finesmith: Bye Susi and thank you
Becka Finesmith: Bye everyone :)
Gaya Ethaniel: take care Becka and see you soon again ^^
Becka Finesmith: yes. See you next week :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure I'd be around PaB before then too
Gaya Ethaniel waves