2008.11.16 13:00 - Antennas and Obstacles

This is one of the four meetings for guardians currently being held on the weekend. The guardian at this meeting was Maxine Walden.  The comments are hers.

As I came to the Pavilion I saw several guardians already there: Doug, Fael, Carovuscorva, Gaya, Pema, oh and (honorary guardian) Faenik.

doug Sosa: hi.
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi doug! Pema! Naoko! Maxine!
Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
Naoko Oanomochi grisn at Gaya-Chan
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
Naoko Oanomochi: *grins
Maxine Walden: hi, everyone
Wol Euler: hello pema, max
doug Sosa: yes.
Maxine Walden: so good to see everyone
Wol Euler: corvi and geo, say something please, let me see that you have listeners...
Pema Pera: :)
Geo Netizen takes a humble bow
Wol Euler: ty
Faenik: could be

Riddle joins us

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya
Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Everybody
Wol Euler: hello riddle
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: Hi there Riddle!
Riddle Sideways: "at least" :) there are many here
Pema Pera: yes, quite a crowd!
Pema Pera: Hi Naoko, I don't think I've met you before
Naoko Oanomochi waves at Pema
Pema Pera waves back and smiles

We get messages that the 'listener' is ceasing to function.  Doug asks about this

doug Sosa: what is with "listener"?
Geo Netizen: こんにちは Naoko'san
Wol Euler: (sorry about htat everyone, I had to restart it)
Pema Pera: the listeners speaks more than listen it seems
Naoko Oanomochi: eh?
Geo Netizen takes a humble bow
Pema Pera: 日本人ですか？
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's a recorder, Naoko.
Naoko Oanomochi: Erm, alright
Fael Illyar: Don't assume someone japanese just because they look and/or are named like Japanese :)
Pema Pera: no, but I followed Geo :-)
Naoko Oanomochi giggles
doug Sosa: my scrolling posted that my listerer was turning off.
Maxine Walden: as did mine, doug
Naoko Oanomochi bows her head, "Konnichiwa "
Maxine Walden: should that be a worry?
Wol Euler: Naoko, we record these sessions to be posted on our website. May we have your permission to include your name and comments?
Naoko Oanomochi: Hai
Wol Euler: no, max and doug. I restarted it by hand because I was getting error mesages from it. Sorry about that
Pema Pera: thank you, Naoko (^_^)
doug Sosa: ok, now i understand.
Maxine Walden: thanks, Wol.
Faenik: could be

Moon then joins us.  And soon we are raising questions about another possible obstacle to our discussions at the Pavilion the fountain.

Moon Fargis: greetings everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: hello moon, what an unusual av!
Riddle Sideways: greetings moon
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Moon!
doug Sosa: I would like to raise a question about the fountain.
Moon Fargis: hah
Moon Fargis: yes
Maxine Walden: hi, moon
doug Sosa: It seems to create distance and an obstruction.
Pema Pera: it's hard to please everyone, Doug, some really like it . . . .
doug Sosa: perhpas if it were one foot high, and thestone circle was at floor level
Geo Netizen: We do need to be able to see over it IMHO

The question of different views and pleasing everyone arises

Maxine Walden: interesting, I had not felt the obstacle element, but can see how some would
Riddle Sideways: I can see Faenik's eyes ok from here
Maxine Walden: we do wish to have as few obstacles in these chats as possible
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Riddle.
Faenik: ^^
Riddle Sideways: Storm was taking suggestions, but seems to be indecision about the fountain
Pema Pera: the problem with having 38 guardians is that each one will have different wishes for an ideal meeting place, as we saw in our email exchange a week and a bit ago . . . not sure how to please everybody.
Moon Fargis: thats not possible
Maxine Walden: sometimes just being able to voice a concern helps to dispell it, in my experience
Maxine Walden: appreciating that there are so many diverse views
Pema Pera: would most of us here prefer to have the height of the fountain to be adjustable?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes.
Moon Fargis: hmmm
Fael Illyar: I kind of like it the way it is.
doug Sosa: just lower, below eye level.
Maxine Walden: that would be nice but then I can foresee a disagreement among folks at each meeting
Moon Fargis: why not? (c) Faenik
Wol Euler: I find it obtrusive at times, but am not sure that its height is the problem.
Pema Pera: fountain fights :-)
Maxine Walden: yes, fountain fights!
Wol Euler: (I am usually camming about anyway, so I would abstain from a vote to change it)
Gaya Ethaniel gives Naoko-chan PlayasBeing notecard in case she forgot
Riddle Sideways: perhaps it's width is a problem

I wonder if the fountain issue is illustraing some obstacles in our communication and the discussion goes toward missing being closer physically as we were in the other Pavilion.

Maxine Walden: is the fountain perhaps illustrating the sense of obstacle in other ways, obstacles to our sharing or comfort?
Maxine Walden: comfort with one another being displaced on the fountain?
Maxine Walden: discomfort with one another being displaced on the fountain?
doug Sosa: discomfort with the fountain being displaced onto the participants?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what if we pulled the circkle in tighter?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: made the pool smaller?
Riddle Sideways: yes
Maxine Walden: maybe so, doug
doug Sosa: much better!
Riddle Sideways: however the number of inner circle people is less
Corvuscorva Nightfire gins at Doug.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Maxine Walden: one more inner circle person...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I liked about the old spot that we were so close to each other.
Wol Euler: yes, this feels quite distant.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like this...but want more cuddle as being.
Maxine Walden: the physical difference is noticeable isn't it, Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
doug Sosa: now what?
Fael Illyar: my own first impression about this place was that you can't quite sit so that you'd feel you're siting next to someone.

Corvi is sitting with feet in the fountain and now begins to complain about the cold water.

Corvuscorva Nightfire 's teeth start chatering.
Moon Fargis: eieiei
Corvuscorva Nightfire: perhaps I need to get my feet out of the water.
Riddle Sideways: the pillow pile is adjustable
Maxine Walden: corvi in the pool
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Fael Illyar smiles.

And then the question of how one experiences the water, warm of cold arises. I am still wondering about the distraction factor

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I wish the water were warmer.
Fael Illyar: who decided it's cold :P
Maxine Walden: there is room for distraction with the water and fountain which we did not have in the other pavilion
Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
Riddle Sideways: temperature is relative
Maxine Walden: each for him/herself Fael?

And then Wol asks where the extra sprays in the fountain are coming from.  We soon learn that Moon is the origin.

Wol Euler: oh wow, where did those come from?
Fael Illyar: Maxine, exactly :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like those two smaller fountains...Moon!
Wol Euler: niceidea
Fael Illyar: Yes, I like it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and a small up one for the middle?
Faenik: ah :)
Wol Euler: and a figure of Being, busy being, in the middle.
doug Sosa: now if we could get the water 3 inches below the floor and remove the stone wall..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oooooooo
Fael Illyar: oh, below the floor... I like the idea.

And soon splashing one another, another form of fountain fights occurs.

Wol Euler chuckles as Moon soaks Doug.
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
doug Sosa: but the little fountains need better manners :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: as she soaks doug.
Moon Fargis: everyone will get wet at bpab hah
Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses licorish at him.
Maxine Walden: maybe a topic we are living out is how events in the moment can distract us...water fights, playful things are so inviting...
Geo Netizen is glad he is sitting on the other side
Maxine Walden: and so fun to be a part of

There seems to be an emerging thought that a smaller quieter fountain might foster more closeness and peacefulness

Wol Euler: would a still watergarden with lillypads and a lotus be less distracting, perhaps?
Wol Euler: certainly easier to seee over
Maxine Walden: and maybe more peaceful
Corvuscorva Nightfire still thinks maybe it would be fun if it were smaller.
Fael Illyar: yes, flowers in the water :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: if it were...and there were the same number of cushions...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: they'd be closer together.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: I would like us to be closer together, however achieved
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so there wouldn't be any fewer....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nor would there be more...

And the playfulness of where one might sit in a re-confured fountain continues

Riddle Sideways: could we sit on the lodus flowers in the pond?
Maxine Walden: closer together physically Wol?
Wol Euler: yes
Moon Fargis: oh

Moon has to go suddenly, leaving some to hope that there is no emergency for Moon to deal with

Moon Fargis: i have to go.. emergenccy
Fael Illyar: lotus flower seats ... sounds interesting :)
Moon Fargis: bbö
Moon Fargis: bbl
Wol Euler: ack, sorry moon
Wol Euler: bye
Maxine Walden: bye moon
Riddle Sideways: hope all is ok
Geo Netizen: Bye Moon

Perhaps to bring some order and focus back into our discussion Pema than asks Riddle a question.
Riddle responds with what he is experiencing more lately

Pema Pera: Riddle, may I ask, have you been playing with appearance more, recently?
Riddle Sideways: have gotten off into feeling waves (seeing interferrence patterns) more then what might be appearance
Riddle Sideways: am playing with antennas now
Pema Pera: antennas?
Riddle Sideways: appearance is a fine word (to me) but others might not get my meaning
Maxine Walden: please say more, riddle
Riddle Sideways: big problem is that I forgot to post last tuesdays session
Riddle Sideways: where I explain most of it
Riddle Sideways: posting today
Riddle Sideways: but not commented completely
Maxine Walden: will look forward to reading it
Riddle Sideways: still editing
Pema Pera: me too!
Maxine Walden: sounds like you are thinking about a lot, riddle
Riddle Sideways: my son was driving through boring desert, so we phone talked for an hour about radio waves through the brain
Riddle Sideways: broadcasting negitive messages
Riddle Sideways: receiving the knowledge of the centuries
Riddle Sideways: depending on your channel
Riddle Sideways: am really excited about being an antenna
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles....
Maxine Walden: are all the messages from the centuries negative that your antenna receives?
Riddle Sideways: does anybody know the terms / subject / field
Riddle Sideways: of mental radio, ether , etc. ?
Wol Euler suspects she doesn't know how you use them...
Fael Illyar: isn't negative/positive for messages purely a judgement thing?
Maxine Walden: would be great to hear how you are using those terms/concepts
Riddle Sideways: no maxine, those were 2 diff examples
Maxine Walden: thanks, riddle, thought so
Pema Pera: I have had similar feelings in particular places, as if the landscape conveys its history . . . ..
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: claire, nice to see you again.

Claire joins us.

Claire Beltran: Wow. Hello, everyone! ^-^/
Pema Pera: Hi Claire!
Maxine Walden: as do I.
Maxine Walden: hi Claire
Naoko Oanomochi: Hiii
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Claire!!!!
Riddle Sideways: welcome Claire
Fael Illyar: Hi Claire :)

Riddle continues his theme

Riddle Sideways: yes pema, there are places that just 'feel' holy
Wol Euler nods
Maxine Walden: yes
Riddle Sideways: there are groups of people that you might walk past that give you a happier felling
Claire Beltran: You think so?
Pema Pera: indeed, for me Assisi is one of them
Maxine Walden: people who seem to radiate something...
Fael Illyar: Assisi?
Pema Pera: the place, not a group :-)
Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, agree
Wol Euler: profane places too, some of the huge rocks in Central Park have the same effect on me :)
Riddle Sideways: definetely times the angry person ahead of me in line as dampened my day
Geo Netizen nods
Pema Pera: but yes, groups too, and individuals
doug Sosa: I was just there. the story of the city and st. francis.. i've been
doug Sosa: looking at such walls, such as sienn, "good government" and "bad government" in hugh frescoes.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: WB moon!
Fael Illyar: wb Moon :)
Riddle Sideways: popular TV theme lately is being able to see crime scenes past/future

Moon rejoins us as his tiny teddy bear av

Moon Fargis: rehi
Wol Euler: hello again
Maxine Walden: those places with centuries of human experience, habitation...
Riddle Sideways: WB moon
Naoko Oanomochi: Greetings :D
Maxine Walden: hi again, moon
Maxine Walden: glad you could return
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Moon ^^
Faenik: ah :)
Claire Beltran: Hello, Moon ^-^

Riddle then puts out a wondering

Riddle Sideways: what if we played with pushing those feelings
Pema Pera: pushing?
Riddle Sideways: into a place where we are radios
Pema Pera: or allowing?
Riddle Sideways: those senses
Riddle Sideways: yes, allowing
Pema Pera: we probably are already

And we get a small distraction in terms of a lollipop that teddy bear Moon offers around.  But Pema makes the point that our being together may offer a radiating presence which is not interrupted by distractions

Red Lollipop : A nice red lollipop!
Riddle Sideways: allow them to come at you and watch them go by
Pema Pera: like right here, as a group . . .
Maxine Walden: think we may do that in our chats, unless something gets in the way
Pema Pera: perhaps even just by being here
Maxine Walden: maybe so
Pema Pera: no matter what we do or say . . .
Wol Euler nods at Pema
Red Lollipop : Just one more lick!
Moon Fargis: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^

Riddle mentions the two strands in the discussion

Riddle Sideways: feeling the waves of fountains and lolipops
Red Lollipop : A nice red lollipop!
Moon Fargis: lolipop rain!
Gaya Ethaniel wonders who has given Moon candies...
Naoko Oanomochi giggles at the lollipop
Riddle Sideways: the moon will have a supar high
Moon Fargis gave you cherry lollipop.
Maxine Walden: thanks, Moon
Naoko Oanomochi smiles happily, Domo arigato Moon-San
Wol Euler: ty
Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
Gaya Ethaniel: ty Moon
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ty, moon.
Riddle Sideways: ty moon
Fael Illyar blinks ... lollipop behind my ear.
Geo Netizen: ども Moon
Red Lollipop : Just one more lick!
Wol Euler: oh yes, geo too :)
Wol Euler: hehehehehe
Wol Euler: what messy eaters we are

Pema directs the conversation back to his earlier question to Riddle, about appearance.  Claire responds re her difficulties with appearance which may have to do with feeling judged about how one appears

Pema Pera: you mentioned about appearance, Riddle, that it might be hard to connect with that word or notion -- what do others think/feel/experience? Does anyone want to say something about how working with appearance worked out?
Claire Beltran: Oh, that's been a lifelong conundrum for me.
Red Lollipop : A nice red lollipop!
Claire Beltran: It's one of the things that makes me so terribly nervous all the time in SL/
doug Sosa: yes. talking about the fountain came from paying attention to apperances.
Pema Pera: can you say more, Claire?
Claire Beltran: Well, first of all I'd like to e clear on what kind of appearances we are talking about.
Pema Pera: yes, that word is used in many different ways, of course

Pema tries to clarify the notion of 'sheer appearance'
Faenik: could be
Pema Pera: the way I introduced it a few months ago is as in "sheer appearance"
Pema Pera: not like "appearance vs. what is real" -- that would be a different use of the word
Pema Pera: So I mean to take what appears as an appearance, rather than a pointer to something real underneath
Pema Pera: and it is *very* hard at first to even notice that kind of sheer appearance
Pema Pera: if I may give an example:
Pema Pera: take a blind person with a stick
Pema Pera: through the stick, the person feels everything around
Pema Pera: but in fact he or she only touches the stick
Pema Pera: but normally the stick is fully transparent, ignored
Pema Pera: but it is possible to focus on feeling the stick, rather than what is imputed by the vibrations in the stick
Pema Pera: somewhat similarly, we can focus on what really appears -- rather than labeling and judging everything
Pema Pera: does that make sense?

Following Pema's attempt to suggest appearance without judgment, Claire again focuses on concerns about being judged.  An example perhaps of how powerful these judgmental concerns can be, obstacles perhaps in terms of the kind of seeing Pema was referring to.

Claire Beltran: I suppose so.
Claire Beltran: You see... I've always been intimdated by faces.
Moon Fargis: oh in what way?
Fael Illyar: does it matter what kind of face it is?
Claire Beltran: I'm not sure if it matters... but looking people in the eyes scares me.
Wol Euler: is it because you see them, or because they see you?
Moon Fargis: maybe its becase you know they see you
doug Sosa: this is very interesting.
Claire Beltran: I think it's a combination of the two, Wol.
Naoko Oanomochi: In RL, I sometimes can only go out with sunglasses on thinking that no one can see my eyes...and hence me
Wol Euler nods
Moon Fargis looks in claires eyes with his knob eyes "hmm nothing scary there"
Claire Beltran: I worry about what they might pick up from my expression, whether it is aethetically pleasing, etc... but something about the way other peoples' faces move unsettles me.
doug Sosa: I have come to love eye contact but it can be intense! :)
Fael Illyar: how about looking at your own face in a mirror?

Maxine and Riddle then wonder about how judgment comes so quickly onto the stage.

Maxine Walden: sometimes we are afraid of being seen, and is it possible that we are afraid what others may see, but really what we fear may be a voice inside which says we do not look good, etc
Naoko Oanomochi whispers, "I wonder if that is really me staring back"
Riddle Sideways: is there a way you can look at the face in the mirror and not be judgemental
Claire Beltran: I'm not sure of one yet.
Faenik loves wells!
Moon Fargis: if you look into a mirror,, iits not you who is looking back
doug Sosa: Most people don't see their ownface inthe mirror. the optimists see the face as their ideal and the pessimists the failure to be the ideal.
Claire Beltran: I sometimes look at myself obsessively in storefront windows as I pass, from all different angles.
Moon Fargis: becasue noone looks in the mirror and noone looks back... close your eyes and there is no mirror
Claire Beltran: Sometimes I find myself worrying what I look like with my eyes closed, too.
doug Sosa: Old movie houses used to have a wall of mirrors going out so people could compare themselves to the movie.
Riddle Sideways: really
Moon Fargis: claire: same beautifull as with eyes open i guess
Geo Netizen: In the mirror sharp,
I see God – on turning round,
There stands beloved.

With the conversation still intense I realize I need to leave, having another meeting to go to at the top of the hour. Geo has to go as well.

Maxine Walden: (I will need to leave in a couple of minutes and will take the chatlog. Maybe someone can send the rest of the chatlog along to me for completion) Seems like the conversation has some wonderful things still to express
Geo Netizen I need to go …. hope everyone has a good day
Naoko Oanomochi bows her head
Wol Euler: sure, max. goodnight, and bye geo
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Maxine Walden: bye geo
Geo Netizen takes a humble bow
Fael Illyar smiles and waves goodbye to Geo.
Claire Beltran: Interesting what you said about the mirrors in movie houses, doug...
Claire Beltran waves goodbye.
Maxine Walden: I will go too. Anyone take the rest of the chatlog?
Claire Beltran: Goodbye, Maxine. take care ^-^
Moon Fargis hopes geo will take of the lollipop from his head :)
Wol Euler: heheheheheh
Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Maxine