2008.11.28 13:00 - Acceptance vs. the will to change

Wol Euler kept the log, filling in for the absent Mr. Laville.

Vertigo Ethaniel: haha, anyway

Vertigo Ethaniel: how have you been, wol?

Wol Euler: mmm, struggling a bit actually.

Wol Euler: getting back up on my feet.

Wol Euler: and yourself?

Vertigo Ethaniel: oh really. would it help to share your troubles?

Vertigo Ethaniel: ive been ok. tai chi is going well. work is stressful, girlfriend is stressful, but my me time helps me relax

Wol Euler: another time perhaps, right now it would help more to be pointed at right angles to them :)

Wol Euler: "me time" sounds like a good idea.

Wol Euler: I keep hearing about tai chi, perhaps I should try it...

Vertigo Ethaniel: yes i highly recommend it

Vertigo Ethaniel: we havent even started learning the forms yet, just the exercises

Vertigo Ethaniel: and already im loving it

Wol Euler: ah :)

Vertigo Ethaniel: it really helps you to slow your mind, to appreciate every moment

Vertigo Ethaniel: hi umb!

Wol Euler: hello umbriel.

Faenik: why not?

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Umbriel Levenque: Has been a while Vertigo. How are you?

Wol Euler can't think of a snappy reply, so says "metta"

Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, ive been very busy

Wol Euler: hello pema

Vertigo Ethaniel: as i was telling wol, tai chi helps keep me sane, lately

Vertigo Ethaniel: haha

Vertigo Ethaniel waves to pema

Wol Euler: indeed, please continue to tell

Umbriel Levenque: ah... yes you've been learning Tai Chi

Pema Pera: Hi everybody!

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Pema Pera: Good seeing you again, Vertigo!

Wol Euler: hello fefonz

Pema Pera: (is this Solobill's session, or did someone switch with him?)

Pema Pera: Hi Fefonz!

Wol Euler: (Not me...)

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Fefonz Quan: Hello all and happy thanksgiving

Pema Pera: Is anyone going to post this log, or should we find someone now?

Wol Euler: well, I can do it...

Pema Pera: Perhaps Solo had trouble getting in . . .

Pema Pera: Thanks, Wol, that would be great!

Wol Euler: sure :)

Vertigo Ethaniel: im afraid i must depart.. my friend has come to visit from down south, so were going to the beach today

Vertigo Ethaniel: but it was nice to see you all again, ill be back

Pema Pera is slightly envious . . . .

Wol Euler mutters quietly. Beach in november. unfair.

Umbriel Levenque: See you soon again Vertigo. Take care.

Wol Euler: bye vertigo, take care, have fun

Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste

Vertigo Ethaniel: see yas!

Pema Pera: nice departure!

Fefonz Quan: my point too

Umbriel Levenque: ^_^ it was

Pema Pera: Hi Fefonz! Did you play around a bit with the 9-sec explorations, by any chance?

Fefonz Quan: yes i did

Wol Euler smiles encouragingly.

Fefonz Quan: i really wondered about some issues there

Fefonz Quan: for example, though i try to "be" without effort,

Fefonz Quan: there are some object that capture my attention during the sessions

Fefonz Quan: and i find that its' easier when i'm looking out the window than staring at the computer

Wol Euler: oh yes!

Umbriel Levenque: ... or eyes closed ^_^

Umbriel Levenque: [as long as not sleepy heheheh]

Faenik: ah :)

Fefonz Quan: somehoe the computer doesn't feel like "natural being" if you know what i mean

Wol Euler: or looking inward, at a memory of a scene ...

Fefonz Quan: exactly.

Fefonz Quan: i try though not to close my eyes in order to stay in touch with the world around

Faenik: could be

Wol Euler: interesting. I sometimes try to know the world around me with my eyes closed, by listening and remembering and feeling

Wol Euler: putting things in their place as they come to mind

Fefonz Quan: yes, i know that feeling too from longer sessions of meditation, somehow i tried to make the 9-sec different in that sense

Umbriel Levenque: ah... ^_^

Fefonz Quan: and concerning feeling, i also saw that the object i observe while "being" jump mostly from visual to inner feelings.

Pema Pera: Hi Sundhi!

Pema Pera: welcome back again

Wol Euler: hello sundhi

Fefonz Quan: and the feeling seems more "being", though it sounds like "wrong" differentiation

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Fefonz Quan: Hi Fael!

sundhi Joubert: hey....

Pema Pera: Sundhi, Fefonz was talking about his experience with trying out the 9-sec exploration

sundhi Joubert: and.......:))

Fefonz Quan: last thing i wrote was about the shift of attention between visual and inner feeling during the sessions

Faenik: indeed?

Pema Pera: whatever you like to focus on, the challenge is to appreciate all that appearas as it appears, as appearance . . . .

Pema Pera: without being too much sidetracked by judgements and identifications

Pema Pera: sounds easy but requires some practice . . . .

Fefonz Quan: yes it does

Pema Pera: but you've done somewhat similar meditation practice, haven't you?

Fefonz Quan: yes i did

Pema Pera: can you say something about that, to compare?

Fefonz Quan: most of the meditations i practice are with closed eyes, and they start with focusing on the breath, so it's kind of different

Fefonz Quan: the during the "vipasana" stage, it is quite similar to the 9-sec, and similar to what Wol said.

Fefonz Quan: what i wonder about, in continuing the sessions from last tuesday, is the "apperciation" attitude

Pema Pera: Hi again Kitanas!

Wol Euler: hello kitanas

Kitanas Raviprakash: Hi ... am I interrupting anything?

Fefonz Quan: i feel that it is different "to appereciate" and "to let be" which is my intuitive approach

Pema Pera: oh no

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Pema Pera: people always come and go here!

Pema Pera: please join us

Fefonz Quan: Hello Kitanas

Kitanas Raviprakash: :) hi

Wol Euler: take a seat, join us :)

sundhi Joubert: hello kit

Pema Pera: perhaps "let it be" is the negative description side and "appreciate it" the positive side? Insofar as letting be means don't do or disturb

Pema Pera: or you could say that letting something/someone be is a form of appreciation

Pema Pera: of what they are

Wol Euler smiles. Hello again becka

Pema Pera: Hi Becka!

Kitanas Raviprakash: 'let it be' - for me - means not having much hope in changing a thing and accepting it as it is

sundhi Joubert: hey becka

Pema Pera: the two don't have to exclude each other though

Becka Finesmith: hi everyone

Becka Finesmith: sorry - lag again

Fefonz Quan: yes, for me as well, juat without the "negative" feeling of "not having hope"

Becka Finesmith: Hi everyone

Pema Pera: even if you think there might be change, you still have to start accepting the situation as it is, to begin with

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Pema Pera: attempts at change based on denial of the current situation -- that is a mistake that is so often made, and so easy to make . . . .

Kitanas Raviprakash: accepting is knowing it is as it should be and letting it be that until it decides to be something else (again, from my perspectice)

Fefonz Quan: i agree

sundhi Joubert: not to mention it dosent work

Wol Euler: what do you mean by "as it should be"?

Fefonz Quan: though even the second of going into "being" includes some "doing"

Fefonz Quan: i guess "it should be" == "as it is" ?

Wol Euler: oh, sorry, misread that. Duh.

Wol Euler polishes her glasses.

Kitanas Raviprakash: as it should be == everything that occurs up to present creates the current situation, that is "as it should be" . it is not denying mistakes or credit ... it is seeing it as a result and working with it from this point on

Kitanas Raviprakash: yes, "as it is"

Pema Pera: words I tricky here, we may all mean close to the same thing, I suspect :)

Kitanas Raviprakash: I think so hehe. Different terms, same concept

Pema Pera: if the dishes are dirty, I accept that, and yet I want to change them, making them clean :)

Wol Euler: right, agreed; I misread you to mean something differnet.

Kitanas Raviprakash: having a sink full of ants over week old dishes too ... "as it should be/as it is" ...

Kitanas Raviprakash: :)

Fefonz Quan: is it acceptance when the will to change is so immadiate

Fefonz Quan: ?

Wol Euler: I think it depends where you see the acceptance happening :)

Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

Kitanas Raviprakash: everything changes ... even without will, something is about to change. Knowing that does not deminish accepting soemthing or giving up and thinking "I accept this ... move on"

Wol Euler: accept that your lousy housekeeping caused the situation; do not abuse and hate yourself but simply move on.

Kitanas Raviprakash: yes

Fefonz Quan: yes, surely without those judgments

Fefonz Quan: i wanted to know if you actually also stop physically what you do, cause i would have thught that we can "being' while typing, but that id very difficult

Fefonz Quan: is

Pema Pera: The easiest way is to stop, during the 9-sec exploration, physically, what you are doing

Pema Pera: but a much more interesting way is to continue what you are doing but

Pema Pera: to do it in a non-doing way

Wol Euler: :)

Pema Pera: wu-wei, doing by not doing

Pema Pera: without fabrication or manipulation

Kitanas Raviprakash: I was reading your site about the 9-sec (and the rest of it) earlier ... good things there

Pema Pera: without forcing and without identifying to much with what you are doing

Pema Pera: did you try it out Kitanas?

Fefonz Quan: that begins to be very subtle to define betqween

Kitanas Raviprakash: well, not yet. we went out and I was distracted. *wags finger at self*

Pema Pera: yes, Fefonz, learning to become friends with wu-wei takes a life time -- it deepens and deepens and deepens

Fefonz Quan: when i type, am i "being" typing, or am i typing as i do every day?

Pema Pera: hehehe, Kitanas

Pema Pera: you tell me :)

Pema Pera: <- Fefonz

Wol Euler: thats entireyl up to you, fefonz :)

Fefonz Quan: i know, i just say that even the "switch" to "being" has lots of subtlties to it.

Faenik: ah :)

Pema Pera: Kitanas, how about doing it right now, stopping for 9 seconds, and telling us how that feels?

Pema Pera: thank you, bell !

Kitanas Raviprakash: did, just before you said that. And am setting up the web clock found on the site

Fefonz Quan: for example, it's easy (for me) to merge "being" and relaxing

Wol Euler: "Perhaps every religious experience is a form of coincidence. Or vice versa."

Fefonz Quan: :-) Wol

Pema Pera: (how did that go, Kitanas?)

Kitanas Raviprakash: what it feels like is ... pulling everything back into center and straightening out a rod that's become somewhat twisted from being pulled in all directions

sundhi Joubert: maybe im just lazy,,,,but i agree

Pema Pera: nice image, Kitanas!

Kitanas Raviprakash: it is very similar to mini-grounding/centering meditation

Umbriel Levenque: I've begun to 'appreciate' appearances of Being other than its calm/peaceful aspects

Pema Pera: yes, the 9 sec is completely openended, everyone does it differently -- the only thing in common is frequency, continuity, continuing to do it

Kitanas Raviprakash: *nod* creating the habit of it

Pema Pera: yes, Umbriel? Can you give an example?

Umbriel Levenque: I found myself being agitated and as I 'appreciated' it... I noticed swelling of one of my fingers due to ezcema went red to pink... gradually closely normal in colour

Umbriel Levenque: I just noticed/appreciated it as part of me/Being... rathter than think about what it is, why I am feeling that way etc

Fefonz Quan: that's nice for 9 seonds

Fefonz Quan: or did you mean after some sessions?

Kitanas Raviprakash: it is another way of stopping the world (as Castaneda would say). Clear mind and self of current aggitations and refocusing on 'here/now'

Umbriel Levenque: No just when I noticed myself being agitated this afternoon

Umbriel Levenque: I decided to 'appreciate' the agitation

Umbriel Levenque: Looking at the finger was an 'accident'... didn't mean to focus on that

Fefonz Quan: thanks for sharing this, seems like a good sessions

Faenik: could be

Fefonz Quan: session

Umbriel Levenque: np thanks for sharing also Fefonz ^_^

Faenik: why not?

Fefonz Quan: Faenik sounds like a little zen master :)

Umbriel Levenque: ^_^

Becka Finesmith: Sorry I missed the start and that I have to leave now :( See you all soon :)

Fefonz Quan: do you manage to practice the 9-sec when out of office?

Pema Pera: bye Becka!

Becka Finesmith: namaste

Wol Euler: bye becka

Fefonz Quan: Bye becka!

Wol Euler: take care

Umbriel Levenque: Good night Becka

sundhi Joubert: bye becka

Umbriel Levenque: I'm afraid my time is up also. Good day/night all.

Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Wol Euler: and bye umbriel.

Pema Pera: Bye Umbriel!

Fefonz Quan: Good bye Umbriel

Kitanas Raviprakash: be well

Pema Pera: Storm just sent me an IM, that he has installed a new balloon ride

Pema Pera: from here to the Kira Cafe

Wol Euler: ah! I thought I saw movements out there!

Pema Pera: I think I'll try it out, for our happy hour now.

Kitanas Raviprakash: happy hour????

Pema Pera: btw, starting next months, we'll often have a ten minute talk at the Happy Hour

Wol Euler: well, shall we adjourn? teh hour is up.

Pema Pera: yes, free drinks, Kitanas :)

Pema Pera: every day at 2 pm SLT

Wol Euler grins and nods

Pema Pera: have you been to the Kira Cafe?

Kitanas Raviprakash: yay!

Pema Pera: one of our places to hang out here :)

Kitanas Raviprakash: um ... don't think I have

Wol Euler: and no hangover!

Fefonz Quan: yep!

Pema Pera: see http://www.kira.org/

Wol Euler raps her gavel and ends the session.