2008.11.07 07:00 - (United) Mindstates

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    When I (Quen) entered Corvi and Adelene were in the pavillion. I really wanted to express my congratulations to the Americans, as I am thrilled they elected Obama this week, as many people around the globe were.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Quen!
    quen Oh: hi Adelene, hi Corvi!
    quen Oh: How are you?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well, you?
    Adelene Dawner purrs in reply. ^.^
    quen Oh: I am fine, delighted this week to see how your elections ended.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: me too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: delighted and relieved...as though something broken had been fixed.
    quen Oh: congrats with that :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank you, I feel they are truly in order.
    quen Oh: I can imagine... though I do belief the fixing of the broken is only in beginning stage
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: my whole life it has been in the beginning stage
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the opening of possibilities this one thing represents is huge.
    Adelene Dawner goes to find a quote...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is just one step in a looooong journey..but.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: my life seems more full of possibilities....
    quen Oh: US and the world are facing huge challenges in my opinion, the urgency of which we will probably only see after some time...
    Adelene Dawner: "The idea of hope is genuinely new to those of us who missed the 1960s. It’s one of those things you sort of know is true in theory because you saw it in Star Wars IV, but can’t quite believe it ever happens in real life. Last night we saw it."
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was born in 67
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm a white female.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: my mother fought for the Equal Rights Campaign..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hard
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: this bit...feels like a door opened for all of us.
    quen Oh: indeed, perhaps this quote Adelene: A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. ~ Confucius
    Adelene Dawner: 81, here. The gov't ahs been pretty much some mostly-faceless untrustworthy annoyance, in my life... ignored as much as possible and not good for much else *but* ignoring. So this is definitely new.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adelene Dawner: (born in '81, that is... brain is still a bit off today(
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: feels like we are ALL enfranchised.
    quen Oh: I do belief, there is more to be done, than give form to the consensus that all should have equal rights and choose a black man for president, there is hope for other human values too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: indeed
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Adelene Dawner: And Obama does seem to have a clue, about that, in a way that most people, much less most politicians, don't.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm delighted that it is THIS man, as well.
    quen Oh: the western world has huge responsibilities to all in it, but also the billions of people outside it, for whom the financial crisis and the speculation with primal resources become now very harsh reality: they have no more acces to a daily meal...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    quen Oh: Obama seems to be a very intelligent, and courageous man, who strives to unite in a decent way
    quen Oh: but his job is huge...
    quen Oh: I hope he keeps the needed backup and support
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we all start from where we are.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think he will have it..

    Sonic joins us. And indeed shows that these elections were widely seen outside US as very important :-)

    quen Oh: Hello Sonic, welcome
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and he will have the attention of the folks who truly care about these things...
    Sonic Moonites: hello
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: He will need to keep our attention...and I think he truly wants to.
    Adelene Dawner: For myself - I don't like politics, and I don't like elections. I didn't vote, though if I was in a swing state I may've. But I also added my email to Obama's mailing list today.
    Adelene Dawner: And that's not at all something I do lightly.
    quen Oh: Well that is the support which is needed perhaps Adelene
    Sonic Moonites: what are you guys talking about today?
    Adelene Dawner: Put it this way - he doesn't have my attention, per se, but I'm open to the idea of him getting my attention. ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: election, so far.
    Sonic Moonites: right, im in britain so i stayed up to watch it
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: how wonderful!
    quen Oh: Politics is not the same as with an enormous group of privileged people take responisbility for the others on the planet... politics is only a means, one very infuential one
    Sonic Moonites: well its gonna make a big difference what america does
    quen Oh: Me too in the Netherlands
    Adelene Dawner: hm, Quen?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
    quen Oh: yes Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: [7:17] quen Oh: Politics is not the same as with an enormous group of privileged people take responisbility for the others on the planet... politics is only a means, one very infuential one - say more?
    quen Oh: I agree Sonic
    quen Oh: well there are a lot of NGO's doing that too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't see our job as "taking care" of others
    Sonic Moonites: i think Obama was a good choice for modern reasons, im thinking of the planet mostly ,and how the government needs a younger role model
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but ensuring that all have access to resources.
    quen Oh: and very important UN, but they are highly dependent of political decisions, for instance whether they get funding
    quen Oh: I agree Corvi!
    Adelene Dawner is now out of her depth, and just listens.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: THey are not "our" resources to be doled out.
    Sonic Moonites: what do you thinkn will happen to the UN?
    quen Oh: to resources, education, health care
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the change that has to be made is to how we think about resources...what is ours and what is not...and then appropriate steps to make sure everyone has access.
    quen Oh: I sincerely hope Obama will take UN serious, 180 degrees opposite of Bush
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Sonic Moonites: yeah i hope so too
    quen Oh: hear hear Corvi!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I suspect his personal style...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: he actually likes other people.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: might help there.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm feeling hopeful.
    Sonic Moonites: whats the general feeling in america now, because from my point of view everybody seemed to have hope again, like energy
    quen Oh: there is an enormous gigantic debt from US to UN now.. but more important, by overruling UN when US interest seemed to be threatened Bush weakened UN
    Adelene Dawner: Corvi, remind me to go through his speeches & stuff sometime. I'm weird at reading NT body language, in a way that might be interesting to apply to this.
    quen Oh: NT body language Adelene?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't think the speaches really will help with that, Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: You might be surprised, Corvi. Quen, I'm autistic - NT means neurotypical, people with normal-style brains.
    quen Oh: I think US was too much caught up in fear the last years, and forgotten their real strength, to care for others

    Adams Dubrovna is entering.. Just after we learned that Adelene is autistic. Which is interesting, as in RL I am having a student who is too. And allthough I have known people in an informal way who are, it's another thing if you are teaching them.

    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Adams :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we also had a president who is scared of other people
    quen Oh: interesting Adelene :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and his leadership style, negotiating style reflected that.
    quen Oh: indeed
    Sonic Moonites: hello adams
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Dubrovna!
    quen Oh: hey Adams!
    Adams Dubrovna: hello Everyone :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritcheds Adelene's neck
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: perhaps I would be.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Who knows where my cues come from.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: honestly, I guess I know those things about people in SL, too.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: where body language doesn't exactly exist.
    quen Oh: I have an autistic student who is telling me I don't take his autistic problems serious..
    Adelene Dawner: Most of my problem with NT body language is that I can't pay attention to that and the content of what's being said at the same time, I have to pick one or the other to get anything accurate from eitehr. Youtube gets around that problem, and in that situation I can be almost as good at inferring stuff from body language as I am at infering stuff from text
    quen Oh: only he seemed to me working well, his results are good, and he never reported any problems.. so I am confused as how to help him.. or what I done wrong
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: brilliant!
    Adelene Dawner: We can talk sometime, Quen, if you'd like.
    quen Oh: ah nice solution Adelene
    quen Oh: that would be nice Adelene!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adelene..what's that website?
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: might be useful....
    quen Oh: I also asked to see the student, to really talk, hope it will clarify

    (Have - after this, before I put this on the chatlog - just had that talk with him. The rumour that he thought I was not taking him serious, was not correct thankfully. It was a fellow student with whom he was cooperating, who was ignoring it and in fact being rather threatening .. Anyway we seem to have found a working solution.)

    Adelene Dawner: which... Amanda's? http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/
    quen Oh: thank you :-)
    Sonic Moonites: so adams, how are things?
    Adams Dubrovna: Great Sonic. How about you?
    quen Oh: I belief Sonic that I have not met you before?
    Adams Dubrovna: I don;t think I have either
    quen Oh: nice to meet you
    Sonic Moonites: yeah sorry, i have only been here once before
    Sonic Moonites: you too
    quen Oh: nice to see you than!
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, it is good to meet you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's a delight to meet you.
    Sonic Moonites: thanks
    quen Oh: have you taken a look to the Play as Being wiki as well?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches Adelene's back.
    Sonic Moonites: yeah ive had a good look around seems really interesting, a good use for the internet
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes..to me too.
    quen Oh nods
    Sonic Moonites: its difficult to find information about things like this, and i think the comfort of it channeld through second life helps people to open up

    Albertus enters. And finally we talk about PaB ;-) And how it works out for us.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: indeed!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Hullo again, Albertus :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes it does
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Albertus
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the mysterious Albertus.
    quen Oh: hello Albertus, welcome!
    Sonic Moonites: hello, albertus!
    Albertus Urvilan: Good morning all!
    quen Oh: For me also a new face I belief, nice to meet you Albertus!
    Albertus Urvilan: Likewise
    Adams Dubrovna: Have you tried the nine-second pause yet Sonic?
    Adelene Dawner hmms. "This might in fact *be* a good time to go into more detail re:autism, given who's here. We'd have to take it slow, though - I'm still a bit slow with processing, today. Up to you guys."
    Sonic Moonites: no, im not completely sure what that is?
    Adams Dubrovna: We stop every fiften minutes for 9 seconds
    Adams Dubrovna: Stop what we are doing for a break
    Sonic Moonites: ok
    Sonic Moonites: a sort of mini-meditation
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
    Adams Dubrovna: Helps us to explore ourselves and reality
    Adelene Dawner: Exactly, Sonic.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: though...if you do it for a bit...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mini becomes a relative term, from what I have seen.
    quen Oh: sort of a micromeditation..
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ @ Corvi.
    quen Oh: will try to retrieve an interesting explanation Sonic
    Sonic Moonites: ok thankyou
    quen Oh: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/hin...ying-as-being/
    Sonic Moonites: thanks
    quen Oh: step 3 ..
    quen Oh: what you mean Corvi? that is becomes relative?
    quen Oh: it*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the habit of awareness begins to be just that...a habit...4 of those in an hour...and one finds there is bleeding into the rest of the 15 minutes, no?
    Adams Dubrovna: There can be depending on how much time we have
    quen Oh: ah, do you recognise that too Adelene?

    And we learn how PaB works - surprisingly - for Adelene.

    Adelene Dawner: I actually haven't done the 9-second meditations.
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adelene Dawner: I don't talk about it much 'cause it always seems to sound like bragging, but my normal mindstate is generally very close to meditation anyway... the nines actually did more harm than good.
    Albertus Urvilan: I do a similar practice, "one-breath meditation" - coming back to the breath throughout the day.
    Albertus Urvilan: Adelene, what you describe is rather like what people with overarticulated limbs (stretchy noodle girs for example) find in yoga class. Hard for them to achieve the work of the pose, ironically.
    Adelene Dawner: Mmhmm.
    Albertus Urvilan: They so naturally "flop" into poses, the energetic work can be a chore. They have to come at the work from a different angle.
    Adelene Dawner: Me, too.
    Albertus Urvilan: As one yoga instructor said, "it's easier to carve out of grranite than out of jell-o".
    quen Oh: interesting. :-)
    Albertus Urvilan: So Adelene I imagine that "9 second" fed into obsessive mind patterns for you.
    Albertus Urvilan: ?
    Albertus Urvilan: so not a path to true mindfulness
    Adelene Dawner: It's useful to see you guys doing this stuff, not because it's what I need to do myself, but because I can see where you're going and what you're learning, and also where you're coming from - in a way it feels like we're all trying to complete a collection, and you're trying to learn stuff that I already know, and I need to learn stuff you already know.
    Adelene Dawner: Yes, it felt like an obsessive thing... pausing so often to think about 'what should I be doing' when I'm already *doing* what I should be doing.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: feels that way about all of us, to me.
    quen Oh: can you explain what would be the stuff you want to learn Adelene?
    Albertus Urvilan: So Adelene what are your "completion pieces" do you feel
    Adelene Dawner: Hard to put words around, give me a minute.
    quen Oh laughs at the movements of the lions mouth ;-)
    quen Oh: combined with the bird sounds it's funny
    Albertus Urvilan: I do know from meditation retreats it takes afew days to reassemble ones' self. Those days one is swimming in the vivid moment, it can be a little difficult to do some ordinary activities that require a regular amount of brainwork - or social contact.
    Albertus Urvilan: very tiring in fact
    Albertus Urvilan: However, falling into doing the dishes is just perfect.
    Adelene Dawner: It seems like to you guys, the idea(s) of 'this is a goal, and I'll move toward that goal' come easily. Moving toward the goal in a ... functional, rational, realistic way, is harder. To me, it's the opposite. I'm good at rational and realistic. Applying it to a real situation is harder, almost counterintuitive - Pema's 'nothing needs doing' is *blazingly* obvious, from here.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like about he 9 seconds..that the pratice of 'in and out" is built in.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am learning that idea from you...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that nothing needs doing.
    Adelene Dawner: Albertus - that 'reassemble ones' self' is very relevant.
    Adelene Dawner: Like I said, my normal mindstate is like meditation - it's actually difficult, takes conscoius effort, for me to figure out that *I* *want* something.
    Albertus Urvilan: Yes, there's a certain kind of "firming up" you need to do, that is built-in for most.
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Adelene Dawner: I'm learning, though.
    Albertus Urvilan: Yes you certainly seem to be!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    quen Oh: how do you compensate that Adelene that you forget what you want? you have a good schedule so you don't forget to eat and so?
    quen Oh: or is that a stupid question?
    Adelene Dawner: It's not so much forgetting as not noticing in the first place - eating and sleeping are not as reliable as they could be, but I manage. Other stuff? Even less so.
    quen Oh: that happens to me sometimes, when I am veryintensely working or reading or so, I forget the rest of the world
    Adelene Dawner: If it weren't for immutable deadlines I'd rarely get anything done.
    quen Oh: ouch!
    Albertus Urvilan: must away for a while. Perhaps see you soon. Or later!
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Albertus. :)
    quen Oh: see you soon Albertus
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Albertus
    Sonic Moonites: bye
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Albertus!

    Albertus left.

    Adelene Dawner: Not-starving is handled by the fact that I tend to eat when I'm bored, as well as on a fairly regular schedule. I've still been known to forget to eat for whole days sometimes, but over-eating the rest of the time means that that's not dangerous. I'm more likely to forget than I have eaten than to forget to eat, but I do both.
    Sonic Moonites: do you not have the sensation of hunger?
    Adelene Dawner: Not unless I pay attention to it, Sonic.
    Adams Dubrovna: RL Calling. Bye all :)
    Sonic Moonites: strange, its difficult for me too imagine, to me hunger will invade my thoughts if its bad enough
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Adams.
    Sonic Moonites: bye adams

    Adams left. And I am about to leave to, as I have another SL appointment.

    quen Oh: I see Adelene, I recognise it, for me it's temporary waves, some days it's like that, that I get up to go to the toilet and notice the time, and that I am feeling instabile and need to eat
    Adelene Dawner: If it's bad enough, yes - but it has to be pretty darn bad to be 'bad enough'.
    Adelene Dawner: And generalyl by then I'm so scatterbrained from low blood sugar that getting food is a problem. So that just doesn't work.
    quen Oh: I try to have always something in my home, as it can happen late in the evening when all shops are closed
    Adelene Dawner: 'getting food' in the sense of paying attention to the need to eat long enough to go to the kitchen, find something to eat, put it in the microwave, and then remember to go back to the microwave to get it out.
    quen Oh: lol Adelene
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers..recognizing this behavior as verrryyyy familiar.
    Adelene Dawner: The last step of that is a problem even when I'm not scatterbrained, seriously.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: pokes Adelene...yeah.
    quen Oh: have that by times, must be terrible to have it all the time
    Adelene Dawner: But when I'm having a bad day, even the earlier steps are not guaranteed.
    quen Oh: ouch
    quen Oh: I need to go guys, nice talking to you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Quen!
    quen Oh: will put the chat online later
    Sonic Moonites: yeah sorry to hear that, bye quen
    Adelene Dawner: It's not so bad, Quen. That's a rough spot, but this neurology has its upsides, too... and yours has positives and negatives, too, which are obvious from this perspective. ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Quen
    quen Oh: I am sure, hope to hear more about it later Adelene, bye all

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