2008.11.09 13:00 - PaB, Time, and Menageries

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    The guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden.  The comments are hers, with some possible comments by Pema Pera at the end of the chatlog, following Maxine's having to leave. (And for some reason I am having trouble formatting the indentation for the dialog, so will post this chatlog without that indentation)

    When I got to the pavilion Threedee and Adelene were there as two 
    lions, however I did not at first see Adelene

    Maxine Walden: hi, threedee
    Maxine Walden: oh, and Adelene, sorry did not see you at first
    Threedee Shepherd: hi maxine
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. :)
    Maxine Walden: (Adelene wonders how could Maxine have missed her!)

    Doug then strode in at first across the fountain and then soon coming closer.  In a little while he seemed to prefer sitting on the edge of  the fountain, feet planted into the water.

    Maxine Walden: here comes doug
    Adelene Dawner giggles. "I blend in with the pillow, perhaps."
    doug Sosa: hi all.
    Maxine Walden: hi, doug, somehow you look a bit far away over there
    doug Sosa: hi all
    doug Sosa: better?
    Maxine Walden: oh, doug, glad you came closer
    doug Sosa: I was suggesting last night that if the rim wasnt there.
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, sitting on the rim of the pool, nice possibility
    doug Sosa: but last night i could face the other way!

    Adelene mentions some neat pillows she scripted and Pema comes in

    Adelene Dawner: Check out the pillow pile, Doug. Click that and pick 
    'cross pillow' and it'll rez one wherever you want. (Quad pillow is 
    for us quadrupeds ^.^)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
    quen Oh: hello all! :-)
    doug Sosa: there! :)
    Maxine Walden: doug with feet in the water
    Maxine Walden: all sorts of seating possibilities it seems
    Threedee Shepherd: hi all
    doug Sosa: the straw mat helsp too.
    Maxine Walden: that is one of the things about the pavilion here I 
    find, lots of openness for various possibilities

    Quen then joins us, as does Gilles in the form of a large rather 
    ferocious looking black wolf who settles in the proximity of the two 
    lion avs of Threedee and Adelene  And soon the group comments of 
    various aspects of the megagerie

    Maxine Walden: hi quen
    Adelene Dawner: That was Moon's idea - I like it. :)
    Gilles Kuhn: hello all
    Pema Pera: Hi Gilles!
    Threedee Shepherd: old fear, no harm now
    quen Oh: hello black wolfie :-)
    Adelene Dawner shooshes Three. ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: oops ,eaningless, sorry
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: *meaningless
    quen Oh: join the other predators here
    quen Oh: lol
    Gilles Kuhn: gosh a full lion pride....
    Maxine Walden: hi gilles
    quen Oh: is that for safety doug? that you sit in the water, as cats 
    don't like water?
    Gilles Kuhn: curiou i alway sink in PaB......
    Riddle Sideways: hi everybody
    Maxine Walden: Pema, what do you think of the lions and wolf behind you?
    Maxine Walden: hi, Riddle
    doug Sosa: maybe, feel less mouse like.
    Riddle Sideways: just had a very nice balloon ride here
    Pema Pera: I'm glad that Gilles is letting it al sink in . . . .
    Pema Pera: Hi Riddle
    quen Oh: hey Ridle
    doug Sosa: hi
    Gilles Kuhn: ao on
    Riddle Sideways: was reading about sitting on the edge
    Riddle Sideways: had to try
    Maxine Walden: what's it like?
    doug Sosa: it changes the scale of the space.
    quen Oh: hehe funny all these animal ava's

    Adelene then reminds those of her newly scripted pillows and there 
    then is an amusing inter-twining of pillows for two and four legged 
    creatures and  how it is to be nearby such potentially fearsome animals

    Adelene Dawner: Did everybody see the new (beta version) pillow pile? 
    It's a new thing I scripted, I think it'll be useful here.
    quen Oh: it looks nice Adelene
    Maxine Walden: thoughtful of you Adelene
    Riddle Sideways: how does it work?
    quen Oh: especially if you put lions on top of it :-)
    Gilles Kuhn: i feel not on top of food chain tonight i wonder why ;-)
    Adelene Dawner: It's not for looks - if you click it, it gives you a 
    choice of pillows to sit on and rezzes the selected one at your feet, 
    wherever you are, facing how you're facing.
    Adelene Dawner: Right now, there's only two pillows in it - one for 
    humans, one for quadrupeds.
    Pema Pera: ah, it might be good to write that on a notecard, with a 
    notecard dispenser near the pillows
    Adelene Dawner: You do have to be standing for it to work right, 
    otherwise the pillows wind up beneath the floor.
    Adelene Dawner: I'll do so, Pem.
    quen Oh: are you in a staring contest with Three and Adelene Gilles?
    quen Oh: ah no more lol
    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
    Gilles Kuhn: ? quen
    Adelene Dawner: The pillows are temp-on-rez, too, and derez when you 
    stand up, so it won't clutter up the place.
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Maxine, Everyonre :)
    Riddle Sideways: Hi adams
    quen Oh: hi Adams
    Adelene Dawner: How's it going, Adams?
    Adelene Dawner: Any new thoughts?
    Adams Dubrovna: No, no thinking today :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Riddle Sideways: Adams must be very trusting to turn back on wolves 
    and lions
    Adams Dubrovna: Friendly beasts, this is the peaceable kingdom
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ *purr purr*
    Threedee Shepherd: *meow*
    Gilles Kuhn: yes but in this peacable kingdom how do you feed 

    Becka then joins us and the conversation meanders between her being 
    introduced to the group and what to feed carnivores in a friendly 
    world.  Pema's asking how Becka is finding PaB stears the conversation 
    toward aspects of PaB

    Pema Pera: Hi Becka!
    Becka Finesmith: Sorry I'm late.
    Maxine Walden: hi, becka
    Becka Finesmith: Hello
    Pema Pera: Welcome to Play as Being
    Threedee Shepherd: virtually, of course :D
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Becka
    Pema Pera: oh, not to worry, people just come and go here all the time
    Becka Finesmith: thank youPema and Hello Adams
    quen Oh: turn them into herbivorous? or make them do with fish/
    Pema Pera: Becka, meet everyone else :-)
    Pema Pera: You may have met some of us already in the Kira Cafe
    Adams Dubrovna: Nice to meet you becka
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Becka
    quen Oh: nice salmon we could have in this fountain lol
    Maxine Walden: hi, becka, nice to meet you
    quen Oh: hi Becka!
    Becka Finesmith: Nice to meet you all too. :)
    Pema Pera: A couple days ago I mentioned PaB to Becka.
    Gilles Kuhn: Hoooooowls!!
    Gilles Kuhn: hello Becka
    Becka Finesmith: Hello Gilles
    Pema Pera: You got a chance to look at the web site, I believe; may I 
    ask what your impression was?
    Becka Finesmith: yes. It was extremely well put together. I had only 
    one question afterwards
    Becka Finesmith: I wasn't sure of the precise meaning of the acronyms 
    but I guess that's deliberate
    Riddle Sideways: oh dear, di dwe do anything deliberate :)
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Pema Pera: not deliberate ;) I thought we had a dictionary somewhere
    Disconnected from in-world Voice Chat
    Becka Finesmith: i've been practising the 9 seconds over the weekend.
    Becka Finesmith: I had some odd looks on my walk today
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    doug Sosa: what was happening?
    doug Sosa: During the 9 sec?
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. I stopped what I was doing and people stared :)
    Pema Pera: there are many ways to do this kind of exploration
    Gilles Kuhn: you were crossing a road ?
    Pema Pera: one is to literally stop
    doug Sosa: when you stopped what then happened with you?
    Pema Pera: other ways are to take a different attitude, a more open one
    doug Sosa: and keep the body's momentum as part of what is to be 
    Riddle Sideways: and perhaps it is ok for others to stare
    Becka Finesmith: I have to delineate what I'm doing and the 1% at the 
    moment, does that change with practice?
    Becka Finesmith: I have found my thinking outside has been clearer
    Maxine Walden: I think that is a frequent experience, clearer thinking 
    beyon the 9 sec practice
    Maxine Walden: beyond
    Becka Finesmith: yes. Even after doing it for only a day or so, I can 
    see that
    doug Sosa: yes, and with time it is harder to see the boundary between 
    the 9 sec and the rest of time.
    Maxine Walden: right
    Becka Finesmith: And that's what I'm finding hard right now
    Becka Finesmith: Can you explain the emotion behind ESBS?
    Gilles Kuhn: ESBS ?
    Maxine Walden: Pema is probably the best one to respond to that question
    Becka Finesmith: It's one of the acronyms -
    Pema Pera: well, I think we all can respond :-)
    Becka Finesmith: I got the acronym right didn't I
    Pema Pera: yes, ESBS is an acronym, but it was used in a particular 
    Pema Pera: to talk about it we have to go back to that context first
    Becka Finesmith: OK.
    Gilles Kuhn: may i inquire about the meaning of the say acronym?
    Pema Pera: We're chatting about the nature of reality -- and every 
    else that comes up
    Pema Pera: The context was that we explored, first, the difference 
    between our normal way of seeing things, and letting Being see 
    (whatevery Being may be :-)
    Pema Pera: So we used the acronym YSBS
    Pema Pera: You seeing vs. Being seeing
    Pema Pera: and then after playing with that for a while, we introduced 
    a third element:
    Pema Pera: how would we imagine that a more experienced you might see 
    more, a kind of "enlightened" you if you like
    Pema Pera: so then we compared ESBS
    Pema Pera: an enlightened you seeing vs Being seeing
    Pema Pera: we never got very far with that exploration though, in the 
    Pema Pera: the term was introduced some time in June I believe
    Threedee Shepherd: may I interrupt?
    Becka Finesmith: I understand. I have trouble seeing what being would 
    Pema Pera: and it would still be very interesting to explore further 
    what it could mean, experientially as well as theoretically
    Becka Finesmith: Heres one of my 9 seconds
    quen Oh: and you yourself Pema, have you any thoughts on ESBS?
    Pema Pera: sure, Threedee, of course!
    Pema Pera: (I'm just summarizing the background for Becka)
    Becka Finesmith: I imagined me in teh centre of myself (my 
    unenlightened self if you like)
    Threedee Shepherd: Especially today, my experience adds the word 
    *connecting* as a part of or parallel with *seeing*
    Pema Pera: Becka, we all have "trouble" in the sense that we are 
    exploring what it could be -- and we're comparing notes
    Becka Finesmith: and me at the periphery of what my Self could see
    Pema Pera: yes, 3D, another good word -- but connecting sounds more 
    active than seeing
    Becka Finesmith: OK Pema
    Pema Pera: "letting connect" is perhaps an alternative?
    Pema Pera: "or seeing connection, feeling connection??
    Riddle Sideways: yes, Becka, most of us had put time imto ourselves 
    seeing Being
    Threedee Shepherd: being connected, being in connection
    Riddle Sideways: before relaxing 'ourselves' to what our enlighted 
    selfs might see
    Adelene Dawner nods and leans on Three.
    Riddle Sideways: it should come to you in time
    Pema Pera: yes, 3D!
    Becka Finesmith: yes. I'll keep at it :)
    Pema Pera: And yes, Becka, just exploring is the only thing important
    Pema Pera: you'll find different things each time
    Pema Pera: and it is all fun to report and compare!
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Riddle Sideways: you might need to remember that this is play
    Becka Finesmith: yes.

    Remembering the guardian duty to check with new visitors about being 
    logged I break the thread of conversation for a question. And some 
    additional questions ensue.

    Maxine Walden: oh, Becka, need to ask: are you OK with being included 
    in the chatlot record of this meeting? Each of our discussions is 
    recorded using only our SL names of course. Is that OK with you?
    Becka Finesmith: yes indeed. :)
    Maxine Walden: great, just needed to check.
    Becka Finesmith: ON another practical note - What are those numbers 
    above some people?
    Maxine Walden: actually I am not sure. maybe someone knows...
    Riddle Sideways: has to do with the auto-recording thingies
    Becka Finesmith: ah ok - Is there something I should be listening to? 
    I have media off
    Adams Dubrovna: There is an autorecording system and the numbers have 
    to do with how much space is left in the system
    Riddle Sideways: someday they might not show
    Becka Finesmith: OK

    I then mention some recent thoughts about time which some guardians 
    have been considering.  And Threedee and Adelene have to leave. To and 
    fro considerations about the experience of time
    occupy the group until several of us have to leave.

    Maxine Walden: I have been interested in the aspect of time and 
    timelessness some of us have been thinking about...
    Maxine Walden: and have been thinking that the perspective on time may 
    be related to how at ease we are with being in the present, as it 
    were, just being in the moment
    Threedee Shepherd: Sorry foplks, I need to go. bye
    Adams Dubrovna: bye 3D
    Maxine Walden: bye threedee
    Adelene Dawner: See you next time, All.
    Becka Finesmith: bye threedee
    Becka Finesmith: By Adeleme
    Gilles Kuhn: bye 3D adelene
    Maxine Walden: (I will have to go as well in about 10 min or so)
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Adelene
    Becka Finesmith: Time seems to be something we can't eliminate from 
    our lives
    Becka Finesmith: I have more clocks now then I ever had :(
    Maxine Walden: that is an interesting perpective, Becka, but sometimes 
    it seems that time seems not to relate to current experience
    Gilles Kuhn: (help i'm sinking again !)
    Maxine Walden: for me when I am very focussed on something, or 'just 
    doing things' I lost track of time and indeed it seems that I may be 
    in a timeless 'moment'
    Becka Finesmith: yes. I get that too but as we notice eventually that 
    we were lost in the moment, it takes away the timelessness
    Maxine Walden: perhaps, but the timeless moment is just as relevant as 
    the recollection, it seems to me. So maybe there is both the 'time' 
    and the 'timeless', that they both seem to exist or co-exist
    Gilles Kuhn: is not that yu only forget to think about time when in 
    the timeless part ?
    Becka Finesmith: It's interesting that we have to use the phrase 
    "timeless moment" to describe a period without time though
    Maxine Walden: I find that when I can remain quietly accompanying 
    myself inside, then time seems to lose meaning. But when I get frantic 
    or pre-occupied, and thus 'outside' of myself that time seems to loom, 
    feel wasted etc
    Becka Finesmith: I totally identify with that
    Adams Dubrovna: There is a part of us that appears not to be affected 
    by time
    Maxine Walden: the experience of time may go along with states of 
    mind, it seems to me. But others may have different views
    Adams Dubrovna: a part that can connect with something deeper
    Becka Finesmith: yes. There never seems to be enough time when I am in 
    a rush but my rushing has no consequence for tohers
    Riddle Sideways is Online
    Maxine Walden: yes, a deeper part may link with something other than 
    Riddle Sideways: back
    Becka Finesmith: WB :)
    Maxine Walden: I am going to need to leave soon and will take the 
    Adams Dubrovna: wb Riddle
    Maxine Walden: yes, welcome back Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: good I missed that whole caht
    Becka Finesmith: I will go soon too.Thank you for inviting me :)
    Pema Pera: thanks for dropping by, Becka!
    Adams Dubrovna: It was good to meet you Becka
    Pema Pera: I'm glad you jumped right in in trying things out!
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Maxine
    Riddle Sideways: yes, it was good to meet you
    Maxine Walden: bye all see you soon
    Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
    Riddle Sideways: bye maxine

    As I leave taking this part of the chatlog, Pema and I have agreed 
    that he would supply the rest of the conversation.

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