2008.11.12 19:00 - White Noise

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    stevenaia Michinaga was the guardian on call tonight and the comments are stevenaia's

    Magdalena Colclough joined me followed by Threedee Shepherd and Adelene Dawner

     No room to sit here, try another spot.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Magdalena

    Magdalena Colclough: Hi Steven

    Magdalena Colclough: is there anyone else here I need to be worried about sitting on?

    Magdalena Colclough: I only see you

    stevenaia Michinaga: have a seat, it;s been a while since I've seen you, no one else here

    Magdalena Colclough: yeah

    Magdalena Colclough: has been

    Magdalena Colclough: call me Maggie, please

    stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse, happy to

    Magdalena Colclough: so what's been going on in the group since I've been away?

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Three

    Magdalena Colclough: hi Threedee

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Ade

    Magdalena Colclough: Hi Adelene

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: hi all

    stevenaia Michinaga: was waiting for last night log to me posted, Three

    stevenaia Michinaga: I have my bad typing to correct

    Threedee Shepherd: OK, I will post it right after this session

    stevenaia Michinaga: :) and a picture of you three to post

    stevenaia Michinaga: you missed Ade's Birthday a few days ago, Maggie

    Magdalena Colclough: oh!

    Magdalena Colclough: Happy Birthday, Adelene :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: she's 26.... is that right?

    stevenaia Michinaga: few of us can say that anymore

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ thanks. I'm 27 now.

    Magdalena Colclough: oh wow--I remember my 26th birthday

    Magdalena Colclough: one of my best birthdays ever

    stevenaia Michinaga: wow I was already blissfully married

    Magdalena Colclough: I was blissfully separated :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Steve, you and I are from a "different" era. I was married when I was 21

    Magdalena Colclough: I got married at 22

    stevenaia Michinaga: indeed

    Magdalena Colclough: oh, I guess I'm from your era too :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: haha

    Threedee Shepherd: My first daughter was born when I was 25.

    Adelene Dawner: 21, here, and boy was *that* a mistake.

    Magdalena Colclough: ditto, Adelene

    Adelene Dawner: But well, live and learn.

    Magdalena Colclough: my friend described me as, "You went to high school for 4 years, you went to college for 4 years, you were married for 4 years, then you graduated"

    Adelene Dawner: hehehe

    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting collection of diplomas

    Threedee Shepherd: ^.^

    Magdalena Colclough: yes, but I think the last has been my ost useful

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Geo

    Magdalena Colclough: Hi Geo

    Geo Netizen: hi all :)

    Threedee Shepherd: hi

    stevenaia Michinaga: well Geo, the floor is yours... smile

    Geo Netizen laughs

    Adelene Dawner chuckles.

    stevenaia Michinaga: we've been waiting for you

    Geo Netizen nods at the humor

    Magdalena Colclough is a little confused

    stevenaia Michinaga: ... always

    Magdalena Colclough: I'm not ALWAYS confused!

    Magdalena Colclough: well, maybe almost always

    Geo Netizen: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I was disturbing the silence with humor

    Threedee Shepherd: which is subtly difference with humoring the silence with disturbancd :>

    Threedee Shepherd: and bad typing

    Geo Netizen ch/me chuckles … “very good!”

    Magdalena Colclough: humoring the silence with disturbance! oh, I love it!

    Magdalena Colclough: and silencing the disturbance with humor

    Bell: *ding*

    stevenaia Michinaga: hmm, so much for unintended consequenses

    Magdalena Colclough grins

    Geo Netizen: Ok … how about:

    Given: ћ ≡ h/2π and ΔXΔP ≥ ћ/2 then ΔEΔt ≥ ћ

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    Magdalena Colclough: exactly!

    Geo Netizen laughs

    Geo Netizen in gasps

    Magdalena Colclough pats Geo on the back

    Magdalena Colclough: you ok there?

    stevenaia Michinaga: Geo, you don;t know what that does to me when I edit these logs with characters that don;t seem to show up when I post the text

    Magdalena Colclough: insert it as an image

    stevenaia Michinaga: what language is your computer configured with?

    Geo Netizen: Ok .... in english ..... just fro grins:

    Geo Netizen: It means that energy-time uncertainty is a consequence of the Robertson-Schrödinger relation (see Heisenberg uncertainty principle). Therefore, I suggest, time cannot be divisible into smaller units indefinitely but has a fundamental minimum size. Or to put it even more imprecisely but definitely more poetically, the heart of the universe beats at 5.391 × 10-44 seconds each beat (see Planck time).

    Magdalena Colclough: there was a time when I would have also argued that meditation could not be divisible into smaller units indefinitely but had a fundamental minimum size

    Geo Netizen: I think maybe it was something I had for supper :)

    Magdalena Colclough: but with the whole -sec thing...

    stevenaia Michinaga: really? but how can you measure such increaments

    Magdalena Colclough: 9-sec

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, but all models are just approximations, which simply be piecewise linear approximations of continuous functions !

    Threedee Shepherd: *can be

    Geo Netizen: Ahhh but RL is digital …. quantum … not continuous :))))

    Threedee Shepherd: I think the minimum time in Buddhism is 1/64th of a finger snap, as I recall

    Magdalena Colclough: I think we should post a warning to newcomers on this particular log, lest they run away screaming thinking it's all like this

    Threedee Shepherd: sorry, MY RL is definately analog ;)

    Magdalena Colclough: since when do you use the term RL?

    Geo Netizen: On at low res

    Threedee Shepherd: OK FL

    Magdalena Colclough: no, not you, Geo

    stevenaia Michinaga: well perhaps we should think about what to name this log, always an interesting task for the Guardian

    Geo Netizen: Hey I like that Fl == 1L

    Threedee Shepherd: The wavefunction is a wave, not digital

    Magdalena Colclough starts a football-game-esque wave and then looks around, realizing nobody else is thinking what she's thinking

    Geo Netizen: But the wave function SI the approximation

    Geo Netizen: -IS-

    Threedee Shepherd: I was, just could not do it ^.^

    Magdalena Colclough grins

    Geo Netizen: though an amazing accurate one

    Geo Netizen: but we're talking digital at the 5.391 √ó 10-44 level

    Magdalena Colclough: I dare you to speak without numbers for the rest of the night, Geo

    Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps it should be called mini-dot theory rather than string theory

    stevenaia Michinaga: seems it would be easier to limit digital increments then analogs

    Geo Netizen: Twinkle twinkle little stars ….

    Magdalena Colclough likes polka dots

    Geo Netizen: Yes .... there is a fundamental limit …. that's the point

    Magdalena Colclough sings: twinkle twinkle little bat... how I wonder where you're at... up above the world so high... like a tea tray in the sky

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, when Adelene is guardina we end up with Ade-logs

    Magdalena Colclough: heh

    stevenaia Michinaga: laughs

    Geo Netizen: Analog appears to be continuous but only at lower resolutions.

    Geo Netizen: :)

    Magdalena Colclough: but nothing will ever sound as good as virgin vinyl

    Geo Netizen: So …. who has the task to try to make this log presentable ?

    Threedee Shepherd: You mentioned the Planck constant, that's 3-board-feet, isn't it?

    stevenaia Michinaga: raises hand

    Magdalena Colclough: 3-bored-feet, I think

    Geo Netizen: Ahhh ....

    Threedee Shepherd: *I* resisted that one :>

    Magdalena Colclough: lol

    stevenaia Michinaga: these aren;t puns, are they?

    Geo Netizen: No .... of course not ......

    Bell: *ding*

    Magdalena Colclough: when did we start dinging?

    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s wired into Ade

    Magdalena Colclough wants to ding

    Threedee Shepherd: Actually we could segue into a topic, they are the mind working at warped speed (sorry:) which seems the exact opposite of calm meditative observing.

    stevenaia Michinaga: continue, Three

    Threedee Shepherd: Yet, doing that *punny reparte* seems one essence of playing,

    Magdalena Colclough nods, smiling

    Geo Netizen nods

    Magdalena Colclough: and the speed of it can almost be a meditation in iteself

    Geo Netizen smiles

    Threedee Shepherd: yet the 9-sec PLAY asBeing is calm, not mentally frenetic. So are we observing different aspects of Being and/or of Play

    Magdalena Colclough: in the way that a constant hum disappears as white noise

    stevenaia Michinaga: faster can be as meditative as slower

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    Threedee Shepherd: I like that white noise analogy, worth thinking about

    stevenaia Michinaga: when I used to run, you can loose yourself the same way you can when you are still

    Magdalena Colclough smiles at Threedee

    Geo Netizen nods

    Geo Netizen: more so even

    Threedee Shepherd: that's just cheap drugs :>

    Magdalena Colclough laughs

    Magdalena Colclough: endogenous opiates?

    Geo Netizen: Well yes .... free actually

    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm

    Geo Netizen: not counting the cost of food

    Magdalena Colclough: dunno--running shoes can be pricey

    Threedee Shepherd: beat me to it, Geo

    Geo Netizen: Ok shoes too

    Threedee Shepherd: Ethopians run barefoot and win all the big races

    Geo Netizen: Not the Boston and NY I think

    Magdalena Colclough: yeah, but aren't they like 8 feet tall? no, wait, that's the Masai

    Geo Netizen: asphalt

    Magdalena Colclough begins to crave lentils with berbere and injera

    Geo Netizen Checking google ......

    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders about speed one travels and if the moment changes then

    Geo Netizen has to go …. hope I added a little play to being :) …..

    stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t the moment the same moving of being still

    Geo Netizen bows " "Bye all"

    Geo departs


    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Geo

    Magdalena Colclough: have a good night, Geo

    Threedee Shepherd: bye

    Magdalena Colclough: (off the log: did I offend him with the bored thing? I didn't mean to imply that *he* was boring)

    stevenaia Michinaga: not likely

    stevenaia Michinaga: humor and play co-exist easily here

    Magdalena Colclough sighs with relief

    Magdalena Colclough: does he usually leave early?

    Threedee Shepherd: yes

    Magdalena Colclough: k

    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps like doug, who always ahs dinner about now

    Magdalena Colclough: ahh

    Threedee Shepherd: so where were we with calmness

    Magdalena Colclough smiles

    stevenaia Michinaga: I was just sleepie tonight

    Threedee Shepherd: The white noise analogy suggests that as the noise increases equally it wraps around the other side and meets calmness

    Magdalena Colclough smiles and ponders this

    Magdalena Colclough: so it's the steady rhythm of it?

    Threedee Shepherd: white noise is chaotic and lacks rhythm or any single discernable aspect

    Bell: *ding*

    Magdalena Colclough: wraps around the other side of what? our mind? our soul? Being?

    Threedee Shepherd: being

    stevenaia Michinaga: i see the noise as a relative thing, lays there, the lower it is the more open to sence of Being you are

    Magdalena Colclough: so when you say it increases equally, what do you mean, Threedee?

    stevenaia Michinaga: could be a difference in noises

    Threedee Shepherd: I am suggesting that ultimate chaotic frenzy may be indistinguishable from ultimate calm

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    Threedee Shepherd: White noise is all frequencies represented at the same intensity

    Magdalena Colclough: ahh

    Magdalena Colclough: interesting

    Magdalena Colclough: all frequencies within the range of human hearing?

    Magdalena Colclough: is white noise to humans still white to cats?

    Magdalena Colclough: or to people with high frequency hearing loss?

    Threedee Shepherd: You asked: (Wikipedia) "White noise is a random signal (or process) with a flat power spectral density. In other words, the signal contains equal power within a fixed bandwidth at any center frequency. White noise draws its name from white light in which the power spectral density of the light is distributed over the visible band in such a way that the eye's three color receptors (cones) are rather equally stimulated.
    An infinite-bandwidth, white noise signal is purely a theoretical construction. By having power at all frequencies, the total power of such a signal is infinite and therefore impossible to generate. In practice, however, a signal can be "white" with a flat spectrum over a defined frequency band."
    Threedee Shepherd: "Grey noise is random noise subjected to a psychoacoustic equal loudness curve (such as an inverted A-weighting curve) over a given range of frequencies, giving the listener the perception that it is equally loud at all frequencies.
    This is in contrast to white noise, noise which is in fact equally loud at all frequencies but not perceived as such due to psychoacoustics.

    Magdalena Colclough: cool

    Threedee Shepherd: And above, you have just been treated to "Threedee Noise"

    Magdalena Colclough: was the purring you too?

    Magdalena Colclough: was very nice

    Threedee Shepherd: No that's Ade

    Magdalena Colclough: so if there's white light and white noise, is there white fragrance? white texture?

    Magdalena Colclough: white flavor?

    Threedee Shepherd: Theoretically, though that is not defined as such

    Magdalena Colclough: what would be an example?

    Magdalena Colclough: is lying on a bed of nails an experience of white texture?

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, that's hard, given that there are about 5000-10000 fragrences, not even all yet well defined. I doubt there is a texture homolog.

    Magdalena Colclough: because it's distributed evenly alll over your body, so you don't really feel it?

    Threedee Shepherd: that is a good analogy

    Magdalena Colclough: so what might this have to teach us about seeing Being?

    Threedee Shepherd: Scale matters

    Threedee Shepherd: ?

    Magdalena Colclough smiles

    Magdalena Colclough: and evenness, consistency

    Magdalena Colclough thinks of her own erratic being with a bit of dismay

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, but everything interesting to the senses is at the *edges* where change happens

    Magdalena Colclough: ahhh. hmmm

    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "One scale's 'erratic' is another scale's 'orderly' or even 'boring'

    Magdalena Colclough smiles

    Threedee Shepherd: we are back to time again

    Magdalena Colclough: oh?

    Threedee Shepherd: different temporal scales

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    Threedee Shepherd: Seriously. I now ponder why silence, calmness, mindfulness is the class of valued things in buddhism?

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    Bell: *ding*

    Threedee Shepherd: they are exactly the things the brain is not designed to do. It would be like playing a CD player with the volume all the way down

    Magdalena Colclough: yes!!

    stevenaia Michinaga: clears the mind, leaving it more open to thr next thing and the current thing

    Magdalena Colclough: but I've NEVER understood how it's possible to clear the mind

    Magdalena Colclough: my great failing in Buddhism

    Threedee Shepherd: One does NOT clear the air by removing all the gas molecules

    Magdalena Colclough grins

    Adelene Dawner grins. "The only way to grok that something is futile is to try it and see." ^.^

    Threedee Shepherd: Why do we assume the mind NEEDS to be cleared?

    Magdalena Colclough: is that from Stranger, Adelene?

    Magdalena Colclough: yes--that and the intense focus on suffering are what turned me away from Buddhism

    Adelene Dawner: the word, yes, the meme, no.

    Magdalena Colclough: ah

    Threedee Shepherd: Short-term memory clears itself many times per second.

    Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps it is not that the mind needs clearing, but that what is important is what is occupying it?

    Magdalena Colclough nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: when i clear my mind, thee is always the point when it fills with new thoughts, like the water rushing back in

    Magdalena Colclough: I like the notion of receptivity in Taoism better than the notion of emptiness in Buddhism

    Threedee Shepherd: Please say more

    stevenaia Michinaga: hmm we must be late, the cleaning crew has arrived

    Magdalena Colclough: lol

    Threedee Shepherd: Who has remove power


    Several people using voice arrived with cleaning equipment rumaging through out pavilion interrupting and walking over us...


    Magdalena Colclough is poweless

    Magdalena Colclough: can you bite them?

    stevenaia Michinaga: on that note, I msut go

    Threedee Shepherd: well I was able to catch and eject her

    Magdalena Colclough: but we can still hear her

    stevenaia Michinaga: vacuum and all?

    Threedee Shepherd: no that's him, he's moving too fast to easily catch

    Magdalena Colclough: she said something about being banned

    Magdalena Colclough: in voice

    stevenaia Michinaga: to fast for a lion?

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I banned her

    stevenaia Michinaga: I;m shocked

    Adelene Dawner: got'm.

    Magdalena Colclough: but I mean, if they're banned, should they still be audible?

    Threedee Shepherd: no, I think not

    Magdalena Colclough: hmm

    Adelene Dawner: Banned just means they can't be on this land - mute does what you want.

    Magdalena Colclough: this land being just the pavilion?

    Threedee Shepherd: yes, but one needs to select to mute

    Adelene Dawner: It may be for just here, or all PaB land... not sure.

    stevenaia Michinaga: night all

    Threedee Shepherd: night

    Magdalena Colclough: goodnight, all

    Adelene Dawner: The selecting's the hard part, yes... though banning can be dons by script, with the right perms, I think.

    Magdalena Colclough: was a pleasure

    Threedee Shepherd: have fun making a sensible log ;D

    Magdalena Colclough: lol

    stevenaia Michinaga's PaB Listener: No longer recording. Have a nice day. :)

    stevenaia Michinaga shouts: THANKS 

    .. as I flew away 
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