2008.11.18 19:00 - All My Favourite Creatures

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    Adelene was the guardian that night. She sent me, Pema, the chat log, which I put up. I also provided the title.

    Tarmel Udimo: hi adelene
    Adelene Dawner: Hullo
    Tarmel Udimo: is there going to be a meeting
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm.
    Tarmel Udimo: no
    Tarmel Udimo: have you
    Adelene Dawner: Ah. You should check out our web page, then: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Tarmel Udimo: I have
    Adelene Dawner: I'm a regular here, and tonight's log-taker.
    Adelene Dawner: Do you mind being recorded, for the log?
    Tarmel Udimo: and found it interesting
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: no
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks :)
    Tarmel Udimo: not sure how long I can stay because its the middle of the day where i am and i might
    Adelene Dawner: People should start showing up any time, though it's sometimes a bit slow on Friday nights.
    Tarmel Udimo: need to return to RL
    Adelene Dawner: No worries :)
    Tarmel Udimo: you mean tuesday night?
    Adelene Dawner checks the calendar. "Oh, it is Tuesday, isn't it?" ^.^ "I'm GoC both nights, and I guess I'm still a bit muddled from being on vacation last week."
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Kartos. Are you here for the meeting?
    Adelene Dawner: Kratos, sorry.
    Threedee Shepherd: evening folks
    Tarmel Udimo: do you mind if i get a bit closer, I
    Adelene Dawner: Please do :)
    Tarmel Udimo: haven't seen another species avatar before
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Tarmel Udimo: lions?
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm ^.^
    Tarmel Udimo: opps
    Tarmel Udimo: nice
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks :)
    Threedee Shepherd: Hello Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hello Threedee
    Tarmel Udimo: have you both been at these meeting for a while
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, many months
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Adelene Dawner wonders if there was anything on the website that caught Tarmel's eye in particular?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: the 9sec take time out to BE
    Tarmel Udimo: I haven't done it very much but found it
    Tarmel Udimo: a useful tool to remember to be aware/awake
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I have found that it becomes an awareness habit
    Tarmel Udimo: that would be nice
    Adelene Dawner: Tarmel - you can keep typing past the apparent end of the input bar - it'll scroll over.
    Tarmel Udimo: okat thanks
    Tarmel Udimo: I guess i thought it helped in conversation to have short bursts
    Adelene Dawner: Up to you, of course ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Corvi!
    Threedee Shepherd: Ahh, good evening Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Ade and Three.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Tarmel.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thanks, Ade.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks hopefully at Three.
    Tarmel Udimo: hello corvuscorva
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Please call me Corvi..it's much easier to type.
    Tarmel Udimo: okay corvi
    Tarmel Udimo: have you all been in SL for a while now?
    Bell: *ding*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Let me show you how to know...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if you like?
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: right click on me...
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: /can you see the wheel?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: pick profile
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: got it?
    Tarmel Udimo: yep
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: read the first part..you can see a born date near the top.
    Tarmel Udimo: okay yes
    Adelene Dawner: Oo, random website with an interesing quote - "We all must seek our inner goals, yet sometimes we are distracted by the referee - is he a new and better goal or are we just bedazzled by his shiny whistle?"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: profiles are part of the fun of sl for me.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I'll have to work on mine
    Adelene Dawner: posisble incoming Claire.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, smiles.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yay!
    Tarmel Udimo: does it take a long time to develop an animal avatar
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: You can buy them.
    Tarmel Udimo: oh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: let me give you a landmark.
    Adelene Dawner: From scratch, yeah, probably, but you can buy 'em, for some species, and modify them to our own tastes.
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Threedee Shepherd: Hello Claire, good to see you again :)
    Adelene Dawner grins at Claire and purrs loudly. "Hullo"
    Tarmel Udimo: hello claire
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins..Claire!
    Claire Beltran waves and smiles at everyone.
    Adelene Dawner nudges Corvi and grins, then gets up and movs.
    Adelene Dawner: *moves
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: welcome.
    Adelene Dawner: So what's up with anybody, tonight?
    Tarmel Udimo: nice all my favourite creatures
    Threedee Shepherd: an empty lap, Corvi, may I?
    Claire Beltran: So what's happening tonight?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh please!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: me smiles.
    Adelene Dawner: Any more thoughts on trust, since this afternoon's chaos, Three?
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Steve ^.^
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi all
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Steve!
    Threedee Shepherd: I am still thinking about trust in terms of degrees, not all or none, and how it grows
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Steve
    Adelene Dawner: I think of it less in terms of degrees, and more im terms of types...
    Threedee Shepherd: ahh, say more
    stevenaia Michinaga: are there pillows in the fountain underwater?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks over Three's head to see.
    stevenaia Michinaga: thought I rezzed them for a moment
    Adelene Dawner: I trust certain people with certain things, but not others, and other people with other things.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's what I was trying to say this afternoon.
    Adelene Dawner: And it has less to do with some things being 'private' and more to do with what I think a given person can handle.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: though sometimes my fear outstrips the actuality there.
    Adelene Dawner: Agreed, Corvi - some things, I have to be *really sure* a person will handle them well before I'll trust the person with them...others I'm more willing to take risks with.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that makes me think of when we were first getting to know each other.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and how you checked.
    Adelene Dawner is just restless tonight, sorry Claire :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was startled to find myself in the log.
    Bell: *ding*
    Claire Beltran: It's fine. ^-^
    Tarmel Udimo: sorry to interrupt but I can't see what steve is saying
    Corvuscorva Nightfire wonders if Steve is typing and erasing.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    stevenaia Michinaga: working on a questions
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t want to interrupt your flow
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mine?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh go ahead.
    stevenaia Michinaga: at first meeting, does your trust tend towards more or less them move from there
    stevenaia Michinaga: I tend to trust much ar first meeting
    Adelene Dawner: I do have a default level, but it's intentionally moderate.
    Tarmel Udimo: i tend to wait and see
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers...I trust in some ways a great deal...and in some ways not at all.
    Adelene Dawner nods at Corvi.
    stevenaia Michinaga: ways of trust, can you explain
    Tarmel Udimo: for the shhort time i have spent in SL - the trust level seems very high
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I trust you to type and erase.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    stevenaia Michinaga: count on it
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I trust Three to make erudite puns.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I trust Ade to tell the truth as she sees it, and to see pretty accurately.
    Adelene Dawner: Corvi's headed in the same direcion I go - trust is about seeing the consistent ways that people are.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I trust Claire to pick really good shops to buy furniture.
    Claire Beltran: And me?
    stevenaia Michinaga: well, not sure that's waht the question was
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles
    Claire Beltran: Oh. Heh.
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and to be really smart.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Tarmel..I trust to be interested in things.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not sure just what yet.
    Tarmel Udimo: that's interesting :-) - trust is about seeing the consistent ways that people are
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: terrible thing is..
    Adelene Dawner: It's... more accurate than the question I think you were trying to ask, Steve. "how much can I trust a person" isn't a good question - the answer is way too complicated. "What can I trust this person to act like" is a lot more realistic.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: even those things aren't consistent....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Three didn't tell us one pun at the 1:00 meeting.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks sternly at Three.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    Threedee Shepherd: I trust you will overlook that
    Tarmel Udimo: at the moment I'm trying work with or look at when my shadow self comes into play
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins. I'm pretty consistent that way.
    Adelene Dawner: People aren't that one-dimensional, and understanding the complexity is part of that... in fact, I think that's a lot of what trust comes down to: Do I know this person well enough to predict their actions with a reasonable degree of accuracy?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adelene Dawner: And are they consistent enough for me to predict their actions with a reasonable degree of accuracy?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh. Good point.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Rowan!!!
    Rowan Masala: HI all
    stevenaia Michinaga: well, I tent to approach with people with untempered trust and let the situation be further defined by experience
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers...Part of where I "trust" people is where it's ok with me if I'm wrong.
    Threedee Shepherd: All relevant, but some kinds of trust cover a lot of territory. For example, if I trust this person to never intentionally hurt me (more than physically) then I will trust in situations where I have little previous data to go on
    Adelene Dawner: Like, for example, my mother - there's very good reasons why she and I don't talk - but she's predictable in enough ways, and I know hee well enough, that I know I can trust her with certain things, even if I really don't like the woman.
    Adelene Dawner: Yes, Three.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about these three bits of trust....
    Adelene Dawner: Here's a relevant question, Three: Would you trust me to, oh, give a presentation to a client in RL?
    Tarmel Udimo: sorry I have to get back to RL
    Tarmel Udimo: see you again soon
    Adelene Dawner knows what the smart answer is, and will not be offended ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Tarmel.
    Bell: *ding*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire starts to trust that Tarmel, too, will type and erase, considering her words carefully.
    Tarmel Udimo: no I don't think so
    Threedee Shepherd: I trust you to know whether you can, abd then we both act accordingly.
    Adelene Dawner: Ah, but that's not the question I asked.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: There might be times when you would be a good choice, Ade?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Say Pema or I were the client....
    Adelene Dawner: If you were to get a phone call tomorrow, from a company in NJ, interested in doing something with 3de, but they wanted somoene to talk to face-to-face, and you had to tell them yes or no right then, what would you do?
    Adelene Dawner: Yes, Corvi, there are exceptions to everything. I'm making a specific point here and that's not it.
    Threedee Shepherd: I would ask you if you want to do it, and let you if you say yes.
    Adelene Dawner: "...and you had to tell them yes ot no right then..."
    Adelene Dawner: Three, you know me well enough to predict this.
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes.
    Threedee Shepherd: I would say Yes.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles and shakes her head. "Foolish lion."
    Adelene Dawner: That was intended to be a really obvious example of when you could reasonably predict that someone would be incapable of something. ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Threedee Shepherd: I was well aware of that ;)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think Three kept addresing whether you wanted to....
    stevenaia Michinaga: trust =predictability?
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks this is both very right and missing something.
    Threedee Shepherd: Six months ago the answer would have been, No.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I certainly don;t think I apply that term to trust, needs to think
    stevenaia Michinaga: which is why I begin meeting someone with more trust than less
    Adelene Dawner: Think of it this way, Steve: If you trust someone to repay you $100, what that means is that you'r reasonably sure that they will give it back... and that's a prediction.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wait...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sometimes I trust someone with my money....without expecting them to pay it back.
    Adelene Dawner would not count that as trust, then.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It is, though.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I choose to trust them with it.
    Adelene Dawner: Unless you're trusting them to do some other thing with it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and if they pay it back..it's gravy.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: my trust is repaid.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if they don't what have I lost?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not much.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: only do that with what I can afford to lose.
    Adelene Dawner nods. "That's a useful thing to do... but I don't call it trust."
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I do.
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps I am relating trust to ones intregrity
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: in the sense that I sometimes choose to trust beyond my expectation of result.
    Threedee Shepherd: My default condition is to believe what people tell me until I have reason to know otherwise, as a starting position. Similarly I assume they are *nice8 until proven otherwise.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes three, agree
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am saying that badly...what I mean is that one can "choose" to trust...
    Threedee Shepherd: That does not mean I will give them my credit card numbers when I first meet them (waiter's excepted:)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...right.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think my "choosing" to trust without evidence has to do with what I fear I will lose.
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes Corvi, I know what you mean. It does depend on the risk, though.
    stevenaia Michinaga: usually relates to one you expect to have an ongoing (future) relationship with
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Rowan Masala: and there's also the question of what you might lose by being unwilling to trust
    Bell: *ding*
    Threedee Shepherd: My experience is that I can never predict who will cross my path in the future, and I behave accordingly.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes, Rowan..that's a good point too.
    Threedee Shepherd: Ahh rowan, of course. Only BEING is absolute, the world of the relative is a balancing act.
    Adelene Dawner nods at Three.
    Rowan Masala: I tend to be wary--too wary, I think--an I lose opportunities
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh! Yes!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean..about me, not you.
    Threedee Shepherd: That being wary is a decision that seems to work at present, and you can decide differently when you sense the time is right.
    Rowan Masala: but I think I could be happier if I could be more trusting
    Threedee Shepherd: As in, I believe it is more important to be aware of what I actually do, as opposed to what I say about it, to myself or others.
    Rowan Masala: could you explain a little more what you mean, 3?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Rowan...only if you can be accepting that they may show themselves to eventually be unworthy of your trust, rather starting untrustung and letting it build over time
    Threedee Shepherd: What I do, as in watch my feet, tells me much more than guessing why I chose to do it. All the after the fact explanation is just a nice story, not information.
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Threedee Shepherd: I did X, I must have had a good reason--good enuogh at the moment. If I reflect back and say given my experience doing X, can I add information that will be of value the next time X arises as a possibility.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: /saying is a doing.
    Threedee Shepherd: That is not the same as asking myself WHY did I do X the first time.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, and considers.
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes Corvi, often I *learn* what I think by talking about it, and that can affect the future, not the past.
    Rowan Masala nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. yes..that's exactly what I meant...much better said.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches the Lion's ear happily.
    Threedee Shepherd purrs contentedly
    Corvuscorva Nightfire pretends to purr back, cause she knows Adelene will be likely to laugh.
    Claire Beltran watches and tentatively odes the same to Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Rowan Masala: I need to go. Good to see you all
    Threedee Shepherd: g'night Rowan
    stevenaia Michinaga: Bye rowan
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Good to see you, too...'night.
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Ro.
    Threedee Shepherd: About trust, in all things, I start by assuming what will make life work best and *easiest* and then adjust from there as needed. If only I know all that when I was young and eager ;)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Guess it takes time.
    stevenaia Michinaga: aww, but that;s when you thought you did
    Bell: *ding*
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Poe
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice of you to drop in
    Threedee Shepherd: Good decisions come from wisdom. Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions. ^.^
    stevenaia Michinaga: I;m going to head out, see you soon
    stevenaia Michinaga: night all
    Claire Beltran: Goodbye, Steve! ^-^/
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs and scritches Three's mane.
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Steve.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Steve!
    Threedee Shepherd: night Steve
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thanks for that last line, Three.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: One of the things I don't trust as often as I'd like...is that it's ok to try things and fail.
    Threedee Shepherd: I did not make it up, however, I had it as a sign oon the wall of my office at the University.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, shrugs. It's useful.
    Adelene Dawner: Indeed. *nudges Claire and purrs*
    Threedee Shepherd: funny how often risk and gain turn out to be roughly proportional ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: Ade, I assume the log is closed
    Adelene Dawner: Sure/
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