2008.11.20 19:00 - Finding home

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    The guardian for this meeting was Sylectra Darwin.
    The comments are Sylectra's.

    Adelene Dawner: Hullo :)
    Sylectra Darwin: hullo!
    Sylectra Darwin: this seat taken?
    Adelene Dawner: It is now :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Geo, hi, Threedee, hi
    Geo Netizen: Hi Sylectra
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks
    Geo Netizen: Hi Ade, Threedee
    Adelene Dawner twitches ear and tail in Geo's general direction in a typically feline "and where have you been?"
    Sylectra Darwin: I call that "tipping the ear"
    Geo Netizen smiles at the warm welcome
    Sylectra Darwin: I lived with three cats not too long ago.
    Sylectra Darwin: Cat's are so zen.
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Geo Netizen: Good evening Sundhi
    sundhi Joubert: hello
    sundhi Joubert: rezzing,,,,dont want to sit on someone
    Sylectra Darwin: The more the merrier Sundhi! haha
    Threedee Shepherd: hello
    sundhi Joubert: hahah
    sundhi Joubert: u 2 look comfy
    Adelene Dawner: ooops, wrong button
    Geo Netizen: Hmmm roar not purr tonight !!
    Threedee Shepherd purrs, too
    Sylectra Darwin: Our lion friends are always sprawled out over everything, but they are loveable.
    Adelene Dawner *is* still a little growly, but claws-in as always.
    sundhi Joubert: look friendly to me
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Sylectra Darwin: Ade, did you sleep well?
    Adelene Dawner: Yes :)
    sundhi Joubert: im new,,,,this is my 2nd visit,,,,
    sundhi Joubert: what happens her tonight
    sundhi Joubert: here
    Sylectra Darwin: I am glad to see you here, Sundhi.
    sundhi Joubert: ty..i think i will this group a lot
    Sylectra Darwin: Have you heard that we record our conversations here for the wiki?
    Sylectra Darwin: Is this okay with you?
    sundhi Joubert: yes
    Sylectra Darwin: ok, thanks
    sundhi Joubert: fine wth me
    Geo Netizen: We don’t always have a topic for discussion ….
    Sylectra Darwin: so what's new, is there anything people would like to discuss?
    sundhi Joubert: ok
    Geo Netizen: Was there a topic at the first meeting you attended?
    Adelene Dawner: So Geo, what've you been up to?
    Bell: *ding*
    sundhi Joubert: brb
    Sylectra Darwin: kk
    Geo Netizen: Conf new laptops, desktops .. printers …
    Geo Netizen: work on the financial 5-yr plan
    stevenaia Michinaga: ok, who turned on the fountain?
    Geo Netizen: deal with staff issues
    Geo Netizen: the usually stuff
    Geo Netizen: We could play with the (not so) secret controls
    Sylectra Darwin: Hi Steven :)
    Geo Netizen: Ahhh, Hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, that was me under water

    I had accidentally stopped the PaB listener device and a long series of status reports scrolled by as I  corrected it.

    Sylectra Darwin: okay so I am totally messing up these controls, sorry guys!
    Sylectra Darwin: haha
    stevenaia Michinaga: is our listener out of control?
    stevenaia Michinaga: or it;s our guardian
    Sylectra Darwin: I did it.
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Sylectra Darwin: I was tryingt o learn the fountain controls.
    stevenaia Michinaga: you can do that without touching anything Sylectra
    Geo Netizen: /em Looking through his email
    Sylectra Darwin: oh, chat controls?
    The magic incantation is revealed!
    Sylectra Darwin: aha, thank you Adelene.
    Nostrum Forder: GOD, SYL IS SO DRUNK.
    stevenaia Michinaga: and she still types better than I
    sundhi Joubert: back
    stevenaia Michinaga: wb sundhi
    Geo Netizen: Didn’t miss too much
    stevenaia Michinaga: why don;t I see Nos?
    Geo Netizen: Hi Nostrum
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh, there she is
    Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum! Behave.
    Nostrum Forder: Hi
    Geo Netizen feel out of the loop somehow
    sundhi Joubert: so,,,,,,,,,
    Nostrum Forder: I'm trying. can i have my pants back?
    Nostrum Forder: or are you still using them?
    Sylectra Darwin: bad, bad....lol
    Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum, have a seat. We were just discussing procrastination.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think this only works if we have all been drinking
    Geo Netizen laughs
    Nostrum Forder: can we talk about it later?
    Sylectra Darwin snickers
    Nostrum Forder: I think I need a drink
    sundhi Joubert: whats the hurry
    Threedee Shepherd: No, we are discussing LAST year's procrastination.
    sundhi Joubert: even less of a hurry
    Nostrum Forder: I think we should put off the discussion until we find some more beer.
    Sylectra Darwin: So I had the travel dream again.
    sundhi Joubert: dont want to make a hasty decision
    Threedee Shepherd: In my travel dream, I never get there
    Sylectra Darwin: I think I am processing the question, "What is home?"
    Geo Netizen: Ahhh … good…. tell us about it
    Sylectra Darwin: You have one too Three?
    Geo Netizen: First let’s hear about Sylectra’s dream
    Threedee Shepherd: In various guises. But I forget the ticket, or my passport, or there is plane malfunction, or whatever
    Sylectra Darwin: yeah, Three, I can relate.
    Sylectra Darwin: In my dream, I am usually staying with a family member, and in a guest room that just doesn't quite

    do the job for what I need.
    Nostrum Forder: I had a dream that someone was chasing me.
    Nostrum Forder: and then she caught me.
    Sylectra Darwin: I can't find my stuff and I am late for the plane, and my relative is slowing down my efforts to meet it.
    Sylectra Darwin: That was me.
    Nostrum Forder: But I'm not supposed to talk about it.
    Nostrum Forder: Then I had a different dream.
    Geo Netizen: Hi Melodie
    Sylectra Darwin: Hi Melodie, will you join us?
    Bell: *ding*
    Geo Netizen thinks he like to hear about Nostrum's dream next
    Geo Netizen: From fields studies
    Geo Netizen: your observation is from field studies I take it Nostrum
    Nostrum Forder: I have to say I'm enjoying having Syl around tremendously.
    Sylectra Darwin: grins
    Sylectra Darwin: But I am not "home" yet, which is why I had the dream again.
    Sylectra Darwin: I have had this dream on and off for the last 20 years though.
    Sylectra Darwin: Nostrum thinks if I find my true home I will stop having it.
    Sylectra Darwin: Maybe it is a mental discipline opportunity.
    Nostrum Forder: I actually think
    Nostrum Forder: you'll stop having it when you internalize "home"
    Sylectra Darwin: How does one feel at home anywhere they are?
    Sylectra Darwin: you just answered what I asked, and yet I wonder about the specifics.
    Nostrum Forder: I don't feel at home here, even now. For me, home is a definite place, and no matter how far away from it I get, I always feel "home" when I'm there.
    Geo Netizen: What is 'home'?
    Threedee Shepherd: Robert Frost: Home is where they have to take you in.
    Nostrum Forder: home is the place they can't kick you out of if you fart.
    Sylectra Darwin: haha
    sundhi Joubert: not always
    sundhi Joubert: depends on who else is there
    Threedee Shepherd: Is home a place and/or a state of mind?
    Geo Netizen: but single people would also define a place as home
    Sylectra Darwin: That's the crux of my dilemma, Geo.
    Geo Netizen: Hi Corvi
    sundhi Joubert: state of mind
    Geo Netizen: Good to see you

    Corvuscova looks for a place to settle.

    Threedee Shepherd: pick me, pick me, Corvi!
    Geo Netizen: State of mind induced by a place?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, All.
    Sylectra Darwin: Good to see you Corvi.
    Threedee Shepherd: Or place induced by state of mind?
    sundhi Joubert: hello corvi
    Threedee Shepherd purrs contentedly
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches random ears, and gets confused by Sylectra's.
    Sylectra Darwin: hehe
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ooops...that didn't work.
    Sylectra Darwin: I could put my cheetah ears on if you want.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi, sorry I was drinking
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Threedee Shepherd: Scratching ears is like love, you can give and give and never run out ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs at Steve.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins...yeah.
    sundhi Joubert: well folks,,,,got to go....thanks:)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Sundhi.
    Geo Netizen: Bye Sundhi hope to see you agina
    Sylectra Darwin: ok Sundhi, thanks for coming.
    Sylectra Darwin: going back to the conversation...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches her cheeta ears. "bye, Nos!"
    Nostrum Forder: I am being dragged off.
    Nostrum Forder: Have fun. Try not to use big words, cause I'll read the wiki and be confused.
    Geo Netizen wonders if Nostrum intentionally turned her back on him
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Nostrum Forder" from list.
    Geo Netizen Hmmm .... interesting
    Sylectra Darwin: Nos got paged, sorry.
    Geo Netizen: Are we going to get a beverage dispense here …. maybe a wine cask?
    Threedee Shepherd: Back to the idea of home. non-human primates move around within a "territory" usually. Many humans are nomadic and home is wherever they set up their stuff.
    Sylectra Darwin: Well Geo that's an excellent idea
    Threedee Shepherd: A wine cask requires a real spigot on my computer, or it is just window dressing :>
    Geo Netizen: Perhaps Home and territory are the same thing …
    Geo Netizen: I vote for real spigot
    Geo Netizen: home is just a little smaller territory
    Sylectra Darwin: To me home means somewhere I can always feel welcome.
    Geo Netizen: i think a sense of safety has something to do with it
    Sylectra Darwin: yes
    Threedee Shepherd: familiarity
    Geo Netizen: safety and security
    Geo Netizen nods
    Sylectra Darwin: belonging to a group
    Adelene Dawner: allowedness.
    Sylectra Darwin: I like that, Ade.
    Geo Netizen nods at Ade
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Someplace where we can answer many of our needs, like creativity and nutrition and acceptance and rest.
    Threedee Shepherd: potential for privacy when necessary
    Geo Netizen: In a way that's a type of safety
    Bell: *ding*
    Geo Netizen: I feel safe to do ... feel allowed to be and do
    Threedee Shepherd: I wonder how home relates, if at all to Buddhist ideas about grasping and desire?
    Threedee Shepherd: As in "MINE" becomes a burden and a trap and ego.
    Geo Netizen: I suspect that if I shed desires .... I would have (need) no sense of home

    Threedee's question is interesting and, although not much discussion followed, I resolved to learn more about this for
    possible future discussion.

    Adelene Dawner ponders, and thinks that part of 'allowedness' may be 'allowed to walk away'...
    Sylectra Darwin: allowed to create, like you Ade with your projects.
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... in its fullest sense ...
    Geo Netizen: Hi Kirkra
    Geo Netizen: Come have a perch
    Kirkra Caerndow: Ahoy there
    Geo Netizen: Nice av :)
    Kirkra Caerndow: Ah, thank you
    Geo Netizen: Is this your first time here Krikra?
    Kirkra Caerndow: Yes it is
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhhh!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins!!!!
    Sylectra Darwin: welcome Kirkra.
    Sylectra Darwin: We save a record of our chats here for the wiki, which is posted to the Internet. Do you mind, Kirkra?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire chitters at Kirkra...then shuts her mouth...realizing she looks like a girl not a crow.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: You're a raven!?
    Geo Netizen laughs
    Kirkra Caerndow: Ah, of course not
    Kirkra Caerndow: I suppose so!
    Geo Netizen wispers to Kirkra “Corvus … corva …. crow :)
    Kirkra Caerndow: Yeah, I'm aware :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Steven, why are you so far away?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not far
    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut like facing everyone
    stevenaia Michinaga: w/o the fountain in the way...smile
    Geo Netizen: that's what SL cameral position is for :)
    Sylectra Darwin: hehe
    Sylectra Darwin: That's what I do, Geo, but it sometimes confuses me if I cam out too far.
    Threedee Shepherd: Is all of BEING home?
    Geo Netizen: We come on the sloop john b
    My grandfather and me
    Around nassau town we did roam
    Drinking all night
    Got into a fight
    Well I feel so broke up
    I want to go home
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ *purrr*
    Sylectra Darwin: I would like to think all of Being is home.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire sings along.
    Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, yeah yeah
    Well I feel so broke up
    I wanna go home
    Geo Netizen: The first mate he got drunk
    And broke in the capns trunk
    The constable had to come and take him away
    Sheriff john stone
    Why dont you leave me alone, yeah yeah
    Well I feel so broke up I wanna go home
    Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, let me go home
    Why dont you let me go home
    (hoist up the john bs sail)
    Hoist up the john b
    I feel so broke up I wanna go home
    Let me go home
    Geo Netizen: The poor cook he caught the fits
    And threw away all my grits
    And then he took and he ate up all of my corn
    Let me go home
    Why dont they let me go home
    This is the worst trip Ive ever been on
    Threedee Shepherd: We sang that this past Sunday at my monthly folk-singing group gathering
    Geo Netizen: So hoist up the john bs sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, let me go home
    Why dont you let me go home
    Geo Netizen bows to no one in particuliar
    Sylectra Darwin: Good song, Geo.
    Kirkra Caerndow bows back
    Sylectra Darwin: Geo is serenading us.
    Geo Netizen: Well ... all this talk of home ...:)
    Geo Netizen: Kinda makes me home sick
    Geo Netizen wipes a tear
    Threedee Shepherd: another quote: Home is where the heart is.
    Sylectra Darwin: good one. Classic.
    Geo Netizen wipes another tear
    Sylectra Darwin: Are you off, Ade? Or just shifting?
    Geo Netizen feels much better :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Hello Serafim.
    Sylectra Darwin: Join us if you like.
    Geo Netizen vigorously scratches Ade’s ruff
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, thanks for the drinks
    Bell: *ding*
    Kirkra Caerndow: Sounds almost like... A chainsaw or something
    Geo Netizen: Bye Stevenaia
    Sylectra Darwin: I hate talking about home because it brings up all the hackneyed phrases, and yet it is so important to my sense of peace.
    Adelene Dawner: (note to self: Install volume control on purr)
    Sylectra Darwin: Bye Steven...?
    Geo Netizen: O ... it's the perfect rumble Ade :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Ade my volume controls don't have you too loud.
    Geo Netizen: Exactly the comfort nature designed it to be :)
    Sylectra Darwin: So Kirkra, tell us about your crow avatar.
    Adelene Dawner: The point was, I'd like to be able to purr louder in response to skritching ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Raven
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Crows have different beaks.
    Threedee Shepherd: Purr, and goodnight folks, I need to go. See you again soon ^.^
    Kirkra Caerndow: Aye, and more fan shaped tails!
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Love ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Three.
    Geo Netizen: O no ... two experts !
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thanks for the purrs...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grin....
    Geo Netizen: Goodnight Three
    Geo Netizen: Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
    Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
    While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
    As of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
    " 'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door;
    Only this, and nothing more."
    Kirkra Caerndow: Hah, not surprised to be hearing that one :>
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Threedee Shepherd" from list.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at Geo.
    Geo Netizen: and so forth .... till
    Geo Netizen: And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
    On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
    And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming.
    And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
    And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
    Shall be lifted---nevermore!
    Kirkra Caerndow cheers dramatically
    Geo Netizen: ActuallActually, I love that poem … one of my favorites
    Geo Netizen: Just a little long to do the whole thing :)
    Sylectra Darwin: thanks geo
    Geo Netizen vigorously scratches Ade’s ruff again delighting in its feel
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: more than a little long, Geo.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Bill who she just noticed.
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Solobill Laville" from list.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: awwww
    Sylectra Darwin: does anyone else have a sense of home to share?
    Adelene Dawner: Well... it's interesting...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was thinking about it being a place where other's come to visit...
    Adelene Dawner: we moved around a lot when I was little, and I never really learned *how* to put down roots... I'm just now starting to see how that might even be a good thing to learn to do.
    Adelene Dawner: But...
    Solobill Laville: I'm sorry, I missed it , could you quickly review Syl?
    Geo Netizen nods towards Ade ... but .....
    Solobill Laville: "sense of home"?
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... general discussion of home
    Solobill Laville: ok
    Geo Netizen: Very general though ... no specific focus
    Bell: *ding*
    Adelene Dawner: I do have a recurring dream... not that I've had it recently, but I tend to have it every few years... of exploring a house that's mine. The house is different every time, in layout and looks (last time, it was literally built into the side of a hill!) but it's always 'the same' house, it's always home, and I'm always just... there. nd comfortable. And exploring.
    Solobill Laville: What makes it feel like "home", Ade?
    Geo Netizen: Some earlier descriptors:
    somewhere I can always feel welcome.
    sense of safety
    belonging to a group
    Adelene Dawner: Not sure, Solo. It's just something I know, in the dreams.
    Sylectra Darwin: Ade, the house is comfortable in your dream?
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "Depends on your definition of 'comfortable', and I rarely am in the parts that would normally *be* comfortable. One of my earliest memories of this dream, from when I was a kid, is of me crawling through some kind of secret tunnels between the various bathrooms of a mansion.
    Kirkra Caerndow: I don't think that physical comfort is necessary for a home
    Adelene Dawner: It's always beautiful, though.
    Kirkra Caerndow: Although it certainly helps matters
    Solobill Laville dreamed as a child of secret rooms in the walls of swimming pools
    Geo Netizen scratches Ade’s ruff, feeling comfort in the warmth
    Solobill Laville: There is warmth in home :)
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Kirkra Caerndow: An interesting question might be whether home is a location or a state of mind
    Solobill Laville: What if home were not outside (to follow up Kirkra's point)
    Geo Netizen: Or state of mind induced by a particular location
    Kirkra Caerndow: Well, does home need to have walls or a roof?
    Kirkra Caerndow: I don't think it necessarily has to
    Sylectra Darwin: Kirkra, that is a good question.
    Solobill Laville: As a child I think it oes 99.9% of the time....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think it has to have what one needs to feel safe...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: walls are likely to be part of that unless the elements and the people are very....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: kind.
    Geo Netizen: I believe a significant sense of safety and security is necessary …
    Geo Netizen: particularly for the young
    Sylectra Darwin: Well at least I am not exploring dark basements and finding neglected pets in cages anymore, as I was in college.
    Solobill Laville: yes, and as a child I would posit that physical safe = physcological safe, again 99.9% of the time
    Geo Netizen: /menods
    Sylectra Darwin: good point, Solobill
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: For the very young ... mother's arms would be home
    Kirkra Caerndow: Exactly
    Geo Netizen: warmth ... food ... sense of security
    Kirkra Caerndow: An island could be a home if it it could be used to sustain oneself
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... or a farm .... or a ranch ....
    Kirkra Caerndow: Quite so! It's not something that can be contained soley by walls
    Solobill Laville: Sustain has many non-bodily implications as well :)
    Solobill Laville: I have a brief "home" story...
    Geo Netizen nods listening
    Sylectra Darwin: I'd like to hear it.
    Solobill Laville: I grew up in the northern Midwest of the US
    Solobill Laville: cold winters...
    Geo Netizen smiles thinking 3 snow falls already
    Solobill Laville: spent many a night as a child skating outside on a friend's skating rink
    Solobill Laville: I can remember being called home
    Solobill Laville: and walking through the woods towards the light of my back door
    Solobill Laville: and going inside
    Solobill Laville: to the warmth and smell of pot roast
    Solobill Laville: that is home to me
    Sylectra Darwin: that's a good story of home.
    Geo Netizen remembers the warm yellow light in the cold night …. beckoning
    Solobill Laville: yep
    Bell: *ding*
    Sylectra Darwin: I think the smell of food is an important symbol of home.
    Geo Netizen nods Yes
    Solobill Laville nods
    Sylectra Darwin: As is the warmth of an animal or a person sitting next to you.
    Geo Netizen scratches Ade’s ruff at the thought
    Sylectra Darwin: I am sitting now with my guy right next to me on the left and my dog on the right and I can feel the warmth from both.
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Sylectra Darwin: Maybe that is home.
    Geo Netizen smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..I am sure that home and love must somehow be connected.
    Geo Netizen: Yes ................
    Solobill Laville: Can there bi "home" without those things, Syl?
    Adelene Dawner: I think home is different for everybody, in practice - home is what makes you feel comfortable, secure.
    Adelene Dawner: And yeah, loved :)
    Geo Netizen nods Yes Ade
    Solobill Laville: (asked rhetorically) :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Ade.
    Geo Netizen: Safe ... secure .... comfortable
    Adelene Dawner: I've been putting a lot of thought, in the last few years, into what kind of place I'd live in if I had my choice. And it's kind of interesting what's important.
    Geo Netizen nods listening
    Sylectra Darwin: Ade, continue.
    Adelene Dawner: Computer is important. Privacy is important. Pets are important. Having people I know and love nearby is important, too, but given my choice, 'neraby' would be next door, or on the same block.
    Adelene Dawner: And given my choice, I'd have a very samll house.
    Adelene Dawner: *small
    Sylectra Darwin: so, less clutter?
    Adelene Dawner: Yup. ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: I mean, I *like* clutter, but it it has too much room to breed, it does get out of hand. ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
    Sylectra Darwin: I feel like clutter reduces the feeling of home and the serenity that makes me feel like I am home.
    Adelene Dawner: But small is good. I spend 90% of my time at home in half a room, in this one bedroom apartment.
    Geo Netizen: That aspect I find varies so much from one person to another
    Geo Netizen: The clutter aspect.
    Kirkra Caerndow: I kind of enjoy a bit of clutter. If things are too organized it feels sterile
    Adelene Dawner: Agreed, Kirkra
    Geo Netizen: And I know some people who seem to revel in clutter
    Geo Netizen: and other who cannot relax is there’s even a hint at clutter :)
    Sylectra Darwin: an interesting difference in preferences.
    Geo Netizen nods
    Solobill Laville wonders if home, like love, is ultimately and fundamentally a choice on how to live
    Geo Netizen nods thinking
    Sylectra Darwin: Solo, how so?
    Solobill Laville: Is homemy office? Is home my apartment? Is home where I grew up?
    Solobill Laville: Is my home clear? "messy"? am I happ there?
    Solobill Laville: *y
    Sylectra Darwin: I guess I was hoping to find out how my choice of life would impact my sense of home, but perhaps that is a question only I can answer for myself.
    Solobill Laville: Similaryly, do I choose to approach humanityy with love? Or as a "struggle"? These are choices
    Kirkra Caerndow: I think It's a struggle for the most part
    Solobill Laville: /smiles
    Solobill Laville: Have you moved recently Syl?
    Geo Netizen notices the raven eyeing the lions tail
    Corvuscorva Nightfire worries about that tail!!!
    Sylectra Darwin: yes I have.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: notices some pecking going on....
    Solobill Laville nods
    Sylectra Darwin: I am now 8 states from my previous home, living now in NJ
    Solobill Laville: And there was a "choice of life" involved too?
    Bell: *ding*
    Adelene Dawner: hmmm... I need to go, folks.
    Sylectra Darwin: You always ask good questions, Solobill. Yes, a choice of life, definitely.
    Geo Netizen wonders if it could get dangerous for him ….
    Kirkra Caerndow: Alright
    Sylectra Darwin: I have changed almost every part of my life in less than 6 months.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Adelene!
    Geo Netizen: Bye Ade ..... as always its been a delight :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Nite Adelene!
    Solobill Laville: Night, Ade
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep good.
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... do Ade
    Adelene Dawner: 'nigh, Corvi-Love. 'Night, Geo-my-friend. 'Night Solo and Sylectra and Kirkra and Serafim. :)
    Geo Netizen: Hi Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Pema.
    Pema Pera: Hi there! Up late everybody???
    Geo Netizen: Got to talking about home
    Geo Netizen wipes a tear
    Solobill Laville: What does "home" seem to be to you right now, Syl?
    Sylectra Darwin: hello Pema
    Solobill Laville: Welcome, Pema!
    Sylectra Darwin: I will settle for a sense of community and acceptance. and I will be quite happy for that!
    Kirkra Caerndow: Thats a good way of definint it
    Kirkra Caerndow: *defining, rather
    Solobill Laville smiles at Syl
    Pema Pera feels title challenged, reading the beautiful titles of Solo, Corvi, Syl . . . .
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Solobill Laville: Title envy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..
    Pema Pera: I can't read hundreds of languages, Solo . . .
    Sylectra Darwin: yes I was intrigued by Corvi's title yesterday when I first saw it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles It's an interesting group with interesting discussions, too.
    Pema Pera: Hi Sundhi!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: doesn't meet often, but when it does!
    Geo Netizen: Ah yes Solobill title:Scholars regard this language as a hybrid showing features of several Prakrit dialects used around the third century BCE, subjected to a partial process of Sanskritization.
    sundhi Joubert: hey pema
    Kirkra Caerndow: I think that I shall take my leave. It's been good meating all of you
    Pema Pera: Is your group a group, Solo? Or did you make it up?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I hope you will fly back here often!!!
    Pema Pera: bye Kirkra -- any relationship to Kira?
    Geo Netizen: Great to have you with us tonight Kirkra
    Kirkra Caerndow: Not specifically no, just a coincidence
    Pema Pera: ah, born today!!
    Pema Pera: welcome here
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wb Sundhi.
    Sylectra Darwin: thanks for attending Kirkra.
    Kirkra Caerndow: Aye, thank you
    sundhi Joubert: ty
    Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night, Kirkra.
    Pema Pera: nice alt!
    Solobill Laville: Sorry, Pema, I was reading back..yes it is the Sutra Group...my title
    Pema Pera: ah! nice title!
    Geo Netizen: Tis almost 11 here so I should go too …. work day tomorrow :)
    Pema Pera: Nice seeing you again Geo!
    Geo Netizen: Pali is a literary language of the Prakrit language family BTW
    Solobill Laville: Night, Geo
    Geo Netizen: Night all
    Sylectra Darwin: Geo. always a pleasure.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Geo!!
    sundhi Joubert: u know sanskrit geo?
    Solobill Laville: What is the relationship between Pa...and he is gone... :)
    sundhi Joubert: damn...missed him
    Pema Pera: :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Ah well, he is a frequent visitor, try again tomorrow and you can ask him.
    Pema Pera: you've all been her for two hours ???
    Solobill Laville thinks Geo may be more frequent than himself... :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hour and a half.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I came late.
    Solobill Laville: I got here about 45 minutes ago
    Solobill Laville: Runner!
    Solobill Laville is wondering, in a practical sense, what is really not a choice....
    Sylectra Darwin: We have, indeed, Pema.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm going afk...I have to do something...but I'm going to park here, anyway.
    Pema Pera: the best way to live is to have no choice
    Pema Pera: to be really open
    Sylectra Darwin: OK Corvi, we will try not to put shaving cream on you while you are gone.
    Pema Pera: to live life like a jazz jam session
    Solobill Laville: I'll be gone most likely upon your return, Corvi, Night!
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at them and then leaves.
    Sylectra Darwin: Pema, I have been trying that approach while learning to navigate NJ streets.
    Sylectra Darwin: It's freeing, and funny sometimes.
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: try NJ streets in the dark . . . while they are repairing the roads . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: better hope u have no fre will
    sundhi Joubert: free
    Sylectra Darwin: What is interesting and funny is how NJ has 2 types of drivers...
    Sylectra Darwin: the slow putterers and the fast commuters.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire waves and flies 'home"
    Sylectra Darwin: You can be tooling down highway 1 and the guy on your left is going 70 while the guy on your right is going 25.
    Pema Pera: to be free is to have no will
    Pema Pera: that's the bottom line
    Pema Pera: welcome to joysee Syl!
    sundhi Joubert: thsats better
    Sylectra Darwin: smiles
    Sylectra Darwin: Need to learn to surrender, to truely take it all in.
    Solobill Laville: ...and to have no will is not to want anything...yet...
    sundhi Joubert: nothing is what i want,,a true zen saying
    Pema Pera: Sundhi, you see, we mix the sacred and profane, sentence by sentence :-)
    Pema Pera: one moment serious, one moment silly
    Sylectra Darwin: grins
    sundhi Joubert: yes
    Sylectra Darwin: the essence of Play as Being.
    Sylectra Darwin: Well, I think I am off for the evening. More boxes for me in the morning.
    Sylectra Darwin: Thanks for the great discussion!
    Solobill Laville: Enjoy your home, Syl :)
    Sylectra Darwin: Solobill, thank you. :)
    sundhi Joubert: ye syl
    Sylectra Darwin: thanks!
    Solobill Laville smiles
    sundhi Joubert: nite
    Pema Pera: well, it's past midnight here
    Pema Pera: are you going to sleep, Solo, or learn Pali instead?
    sundhi Joubert: only 9:12 here
    Solobill Laville: Should sleep, Pali can wait...
    Pema Pera: ah, yes, the joys of the Old World!
    Pema Pera: perhaps learning Pali will put you to sleep . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: u learning pai
    Pema Pera: oh, no, 9:12 pm Sundhi?
    sundhi Joubert: pali
    Solobill Laville: Reading Shobogenzo can do that too, in English!
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: Being-Time!
    sundhi Joubert: yes
    Solobill Laville: yup
    Pema Pera: ah, okay!
    Pema Pera: early indeed
    Pema Pera: One Bright Pearl is one of my favorites, Solo
    Pema Pera: do you know that one?
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Yes
    Pema Pera: ikkamyouju
    Pema Pera: really wonderful
    Pema Pera: truth is so very simple . . . .
    Pema Pera: one taste
    Solobill Laville: Very simple, and very deep
    Solobill Laville: yes
    Solobill Laville: one level, and many levels
    Pema Pera: I don't think I would have like to train under Dogen, though
    Pema Pera: he seemed rather strict and dour .. . .
    Solobill Laville: Ha, a bit of a tickler on how to wipe yourself!!
    sundhi Joubert: lol
    Solobill Laville: *stickler
    Pema Pera: yeah, and brush your teeth, and cook soup and clean snow
    sundhi Joubert: too strict for me
    Solobill Laville: yup
    Pema Pera: I'd click more with someone like Trungpa
    Pema Pera: wish I would have met him . . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: ooohh yessssss..
    Pema Pera: have either of you?
    Solobill Laville: WIsh I knew S. Suzuki...
    sundhi Joubert: him i could deal with:))))))
    Solobill Laville: No, not Trungpa
    sundhi Joubert: hahaha
    Pema Pera: Suzuki must have been great too . . . . . so simple
    Solobill Laville: and ... "releasing the fingers"
    Pema Pera: releasing the fingers?
    Solobill Laville: Active passivity
    Solobill Laville: Dogen's phrase
    Solobill Laville: as opposed to grabbing, yet still a choice
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Solobill Laville: The act of release
    Pema Pera: nice
    Pema Pera: About Trungpa, I mentioned him a few months ago in a PaB session: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...t=blue+pancake
    Pema Pera: let's see, just a sec:
    Solobill Laville: That is an old one...
    Solobill Laville: :)
    sundhi Joubert: i was sitting zen the same time i was with a nyingma teacher
    Pema Pera: Pema Pera: Trungpa
    Pema Pera: Tibetan guy
    Pema Pera: very impressive and very wild
    Pema Pera: he talked about dzogchen, but it could have been about PaB
    Pema Pera: saying that -- I'm quoting quite freely now --
    Pema Pera: it is much more radical than pulling the rug out from under you
    Pema Pera: it is more like the sky falling on your head, like a big blue pancake
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: the rug leaves the rest of teh world as it is
    Pema Pera: only you topple over
    Wol Euler: true
    Pema Pera: PaB topples over the whole world
    Pema Pera: sky and all
    Pema Pera: (sorry for spam)
    Pema Pera: yes, Sundhi?
    Pema Pera: http://www.shambhala.org/teachings/view.php?id=77
    Pema Pera: is the blue pancake story
    Solobill Laville: Quite a connection the creative source to envision a blue pancake...:)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Solobill Laville: Just great
    Pema Pera: (you don't run to your neighbor, saying, I got this pancake in my hair, no, the WHOLE sky has fallen!)
    Solobill Laville: Not in my neighborhood anyway :)\
    Pema Pera: sorry, Sundhi, what was your story? Didn't mean to cut you off!
    Pema Pera: zen and nyingma?
    sundhi Joubert: yes...
    Pema Pera thinking, meanwhile, already about blueberry pancakes for breakfast . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: simple ...complex..or seeingly so on both ends
    Pema Pera: only nine more hours to go . . . .
    Pema Pera: yes, sundhi, how so?
    Solobill Laville nods
    Pema Pera: you mean, doing both zen and nyingma? I've done that too!
    Pema Pera: very complementary
    sundhi Joubert: yes...
    Pema Pera: Zen like jumping in a hole and crawling upwards; nyingma descending slowly and then jumping back up
    sundhi Joubert: the same..
    Pema Pera: yes
    sundhi Joubert: just from different diections
    Pema Pera: yes!!
    sundhi Joubert: but,,the zen folks were always on time...lol
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: they were pretty amazing . . . .
    Pema Pera: Tang dynasty, marvelous period in human history, birth of zen in China
    Pema Pera: had lunch today with a Tang specialist
    Pema Pera: very rare guy, both academic specialist and actually appreciative of the truth of zen
    Solobill Laville smiles appreciatively
    Pema Pera: poor guy can never talk with his colleagues about his real feelings and insights . . . .
    Solobill Laville: ...non-scientific...?
    Pema Pera: If you teach comparitive religions in a university you are *expected* not to believe it . . .
    sundhi Joubert: thats true..
    Pema Pera: as if a physicist would do an experiment, read off the needles, and say: look at the fascinating correlations between the needles! But of course, they don't mean anything, I don't believe in matter!
    Pema Pera: how silly that would be . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: was a comparative religions grad student....
    Pema Pera: but that's what happens
    Pema Pera: ah, so you know!!!
    sundhi Joubert: learned that in spades
    Pema Pera commiserates
    sundhi Joubert: and NEVER say u study sanskrit to read scripture
    Solobill Laville: politico dharma
    Pema Pera: you have to wash your mouth then!
    sundhi Joubert: regarded as a religious nut
    Pema Pera: When I was a postdoc, I didn't dare to say I went to zen retreats; I don't think I would have gotten tenure . . . .
    sundhi Joubert: hahaaha......considered a bit out of round....ol
    Pema Pera: sorry about taht
    Solobill Laville: Only as a social scientist, Pema
    Solobill Laville: And there's much less grant money there....
    sundhi Joubert: well dogma is everywhere
    Pema Pera: yes
    sundhi Joubert: esp universities...
    Pema Pera still thinking about BLUEberry pancakes . . . . time to go to sleep so that I can eat them for breakfast before too long!
    Pema Pera: nice seeing you both!
    sundhi Joubert: likewise
    Pema Pera: nite!
    Pema Pera: see you soon
    sundhi Joubert: nite
    Solobill Laville: Night :)
    Solobill Laville: I am off to bed as well, Sundhi
    Solobill Laville: NIce to meet you!
    sundhi Joubert: likewise
    sundhi Joubert: nite
    Solobill Laville: :) be well

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