2008.11.26 13:00 - Tax and Software

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    The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

    When I arrived, doug and Becka were already there.

    doug Sosa: hello?
    doug Sosa: hi quilt.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Doug, Becki.
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Quilty and everyone
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, Becka.
    doug Sosa: didn't see you, hi.
    Becka Finesmith: Hey Doug :) BRB just got to get a drink
    Quilty Bookmite: Neither did I. Just showed up on my radar.
    Quilty Bookmite: You need a drink for my chats. :-)
    doug Sosa: BRB?
    Wol arrives.
    Wol Euler: hello quilty, doug, becka
    Quilty Bookmite: Means Be Right Back.
    doug Sosa: ah, yes.
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Wol.
    Quilty Bookmite: Text speak is killing the English language. :-)
    To be fair, I use acronyms like BRB myself but I draw the line at shortening words like you -> u. As I move further into middle age I need a few things to rage at.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi wester.
    Wol Euler: hello wester, glad you came
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Wester arrives.
    Wester Kiranov: hi everyobody
    Wol Euler: brb, time for tea
    Becka Finesmith: I haven't had one all day :(
    Quilty Bookmite: OK.
    Quilty Bookmite: Please have a seat.
    Wester Kiranov: thanks
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Wol - Looking very glam tonight :) Off out?
    Wol Euler: back
    Wol Euler smiles at Becka. Thanks! I felt the need for some glam today.
    Becka Finesmith: one of those days?
    Wol Euler: meh.
    Wol Euler: (I do need a little cheering up, yes)
    Becka Finesmith: Do you want to talk about it?
    Quilty Bookmite: What's up Wol? *tickles Wol*
    Wol Euler squirms and laughs.
    Wol Euler: Eh, it's fine, just work today and more work tomorrow.
    Becka Finesmith nods
    Wol Euler: I have a bad feeling that tomorrow's day (2 hours train ride, fixing a problem, 2 hours train back) will be a waste of time
    Becka Finesmith: will you get paid?
    Wol Euler: well, that is the catch.
    Quilty Bookmite: The 2 hour train ride isn;t normal then?
    Becka Finesmith: :(
    Wol Euler: the customer claims that it is a flaw in my software. If it is, then I won't charge anything.
    Becka Finesmith: Ahh. Pain.
    Wol Euler: however, I am about 87.3% certain that it is an operating system error.
    Such precise certainty can only come from someone with an engineering or scientific background, and it went unnoted. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: yay :)
    Wol Euler: everything she's said supports this. But the in-house IT department denies it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Then you just need to prove it. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: Wol. You are in the UK aren't you?
    Wol Euler: I am betting that I will prove them wrong within an hour
    Wol Euler: no, germany.
    Quilty Bookmite: What is the OS?
    Wol Euler: and if I do, then I will sure as hell bill them for wasting my time
    Becka Finesmith: ahh - ok - I thought it was Europe way ;)
    Wol Euler: XP
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    doug Sosa: I thought you, wol, were an Alsatian dog in a research center? were a
    Quilty Bookmite: Bugs? In XP? Never!
    I jest of course, but XP will at least run on an average PC more than a year or two old, unlike Vista.
    Becka Finesmith: Bound to be an OS faultt hen ;)
    Wol Euler: but I am not looking forward to it.
    Wol Euler: oh, but I am doug.
    Wol Euler: dogs have jobs too.
    Wol Euler: hello pema
    doug Sosa: Wonderful!
    Pema graces us with his presence.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pema
    Becka Finesmith: It could be worse
    Wester Kiranov: hi pema
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Pema Pera: Hi All !
    Quilty Bookmite: No disguise Pema?
    A reference to a comment I made in a guardian meeting. I suggested that Pema arrive at a meeting in disguise and see if the mood is really different with and without him being there.
    Becka Finesmith: I had to visit someone today because they couldn't print their VAT return :(
    Becka Finesmith: :0
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Quilty Bookmite: You're in the UK Becka?
    Becka Finesmith: I'll be thinking of you sticking it to them ;)
    Becka Finesmith: Yes Quilty
    Wol Euler grins
    Quilty Bookmite: So new VAT rate is imminent. :-)
    For the uninitiated, the UK government have decided to drop the rate of VAT (Value Added Tax - it's on most purchased items) from 17.5% to 15% to try and boost spending and therefore the economy.
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Pema
    Quilty Bookmite: That'll probably mess up all the software.
    Becka Finesmith: Yes - And that was part of the problem
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Becka Finesmith: I don't think there software handled it very well
    Becka Finesmith: thier
    Quilty Bookmite: It's quite a while since we had a VAT rate change.
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Becka Finesmith: yeah. I doubt we will see much change
    Wol Euler frowns. did someone just arrive?
    Wol Euler: no, I got a second listener. damn and blast.
    PaB Listener playing up again.
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't think so.
    Pema Pera trying to remember the argument about a brain in a vat
    Becka Finesmith: We all moved though?
    Quilty Bookmite: I like this adaptability. I must congratulate Storm.
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Becka Finesmith: lol@Pema
    Wol Euler nods. It's very nice this way.
    Wester Kiranov: there was water here when i arrived
    Quilty Bookmite: i turned it off.
    Becka Finesmith: Global Warming
    Someone (probably Pema) decided to make the pool reappear so that we are all sitting in it.
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Quilty Bookmite: Ahh! Wet!
    Pema Pera: better to melt the ice than break the ice!
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    doug Sosa: this is the oops. best, sitting in the water (gone).
    Becka Finesmith: Does anyone have the bell as an MP3 file?
    Becka Finesmith: I'd like to use it for my 15 minute timer
    Pema Pera: I suggest you IM Fael Illyar
    Becka Finesmith: I'm trying to train myself
    Pema Pera: she is most likely to know
    Becka Finesmith: THanks Pema
    Pema Pera: (and is online right now)
    Quilty Bookmite: One day I must record a real monastery bell.
    Becka Finesmith: I don't have her as a contact but I will add
    Pema Pera: Wester, did you get a chance to play a bit with the 9-sec explorations?
    Quilty Bookmite: You can hear the ring for a couple of minutes after it is struck.
    Wester Kiranov: a little bit
    Pema Pera: a couple minutes!!!
    Pema Pera: how was it?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. If it is quiet enough. :-)
    Wester Kiranov: I tend to do much too much
    Wester Kiranov: that much i found out
    Pema Pera: great!
    Pema Pera: was it hard to remind yourself to do it?
    Wester Kiranov: i put the mindfulness bell of the link on
    Wester Kiranov: on 15 minutes
    Pema Pera: ah, that's a nice tool
    Wester Kiranov: and then did it in about one third of the cases
    Pema Pera: how did it feel, did you get used to it a bit?
    Wester Kiranov: still getting the hang of it
    Wester Kiranov: i'm thinking instead of seeing too much, still
    Pema Pera: the most important thing is to get used to stopping regularly
    Pema Pera: everything else follows from stopping, it seems
    Pema Pera: just seeing your thinking is already a great step
    Pema Pera: become aware of how many thoughts you have, and then watching those
    Pema Pera: not suppressing or trying to change
    Wester Kiranov: when you see things, they automatically change a bit
    Pema Pera: oh yes, and often for the better :-)
    Wester Kiranov: like your body posture when you meditate
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wol Euler raises her teacup to Werner Heisenberg :)
    Pema Pera is a bit unsure about that
    Pema Pera: (uncertain I should have said)
    doug Sosa: lately I've been noticing that when i shift to the 9 sec things are more defined by color and less by geometry (shape).
    Quilty Bookmite: One thought. The bell in a monastery is rung every 3 minutes during the first meditation period in the morning and the last meditation period at night. The idea is to bring the mind back into focus at a time when it tends to wander. I wonder if the 9 seconds practice is doing something similar.
    Quilty Bookmite isn;t certain whether or not to raise my cup.
    And I now realise that I made the same joke as Pema, some time after. Doh! If you don't know what this is about, look up Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principal.
    Pema Pera: I think so, Quilty!
    Pema Pera: (as to 3 min)
    Pema Pera: interesting shift, Doug!
    doug Sosa: yes. one thing, it is easier to see the appearance behind the appearance in color than in geometry, which tendds to freeze out the inner vision.
    doug Sosa: One can experiment right here by shifting attention from tthe shape of things to the colors.
    doug Sosa: back and forth.
    I must admit to getting a bit lost here. This may be something to do with Synesthesia.
    Wester Kiranov: it does soften the focus
    Wester Kiranov: but it brings out too many intellectual questions, for me personally
    doug Sosa: how can there be too many questions?
    Wester Kiranov: some questions distract
    Wester Kiranov: more than others
    doug Sosa: got it.
    doug Sosa: Focus is interesting, it tends to require muscle tension, which makes freedom difficult.
    doug Sosa: the 9 sec for me is an easing off focus.
    Quilty Bookmite: Even mental focus?
    Doh again! What other kind of focus is there?
    doug Sosa: yes, especialy.
    doug Sosa: for me.
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't find that in meditation unless I have a posture problem.
    Wester Kiranov: i think focus is not a bad thing unless you get stuck
    Pema Pera: Doug, how would you use the word "focus" when expert dancers dance together, improvising a totall new dance spontaneously -- are they "focusing" on their dancing?
    doug Sosa: well, good question. I think the bad dancer focuses, now on this foot, that hand, etc. The good dancer lets go of focus
    doug Sosa: and takes in the whole.
    Pema Pera: yes, I think so
    Pema Pera: but you could also say "using a broader focus"
    Pema Pera: it's partly a matter of how to use those words
    doug Sosa: focus implies a narrowing no?
    Pema Pera: often yes
    doug Sosa: Ah, but "bring into focus does not require narrowing.
    Pema Pera: (was just thinking about that phrase)
    doug Sosa: but it is chosing one distance over another.
    Pema Pera: yes
    doug Sosa: I like to think about looking at a face. one can "focus" on the plane of the face, or let attention move to the area where a halo would be and let the face blur a bit.
    doug Sosa: We actually "see" more of the face this way.
    Pema Pera: nice example!
    Pema Pera: Sorry, have to take off, good seeing you all, though briefly!
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Pema.
    Wester Kiranov: bye pema
    Pema Pera: always a pity to take off, but . . . .
    Wol Euler smiles. bye pema
    Pema leaves and we get silly.
    doug Sosa: brief can be good!
    Quilty Bookmite: PaB Listener is going mad.
    Wol Euler: yes, since the newest round of server upgrades.
    Wester Kiranov: or being thorough
    Wol Euler: working on it now.
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. I see. It's an OS problem. :-)
    doug Sosa: oops, yes, past 1:30 i too much vaporize :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Doug.
    Wester Kiranov: bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Language chats?
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe not.
    Wol Euler: eh?
    Quilty Bookmite: Just wondering if there was a language chat at the Kira cafe.
    Wol Euler: oh right.
    Wol Euler: probably...
    Wester Kiranov: i think in 25 minutes
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. OK.
    Wester Kiranov: i think they usually are at 2
    Wol Euler: um, no, from 1:30 to 2
    Wol Euler: language half-hour
    Quilty Bookmite: Onigokko
    Wol Euler: P is prodding me to attend the German evening tonight.
    Wol Euler: i.e. now
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah well.
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Wester Kiranov: you're right, it's german right now
    Quilty Bookmite: stop
    Wol Euler: stop
    Becka Finesmith: Why does that happen?
    Wol Euler: ah, didn't I give you one?
    Wol Euler: an object named "onigokko"?
    Wol Euler: let me remedy that at once!
    Wester Kiranov: what is it?
    Wol Euler: a bit of harmless fun :)
    Wol Euler: just wear it, it ataches invisibly
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
    Wol Euler: and makes you run about waving your arms
    Quilty Bookmite: I must remember not to capitalise it.
    Wol Euler: when someone says ...
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Wol Euler: stop
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Becka Finesmith: Try again
    Wol Euler: be my guest :)
    Quilty Bookmite: You're making it look like I'm odd or something. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: onigokko
    Becka Finesmith: onigokko
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Quilty Bookmite: stop
    Wol Euler: stop
    Becka Finesmith: Funny
    Becka Finesmith: stop
    Wol Euler: oh daer, you're stuck
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Quilty Bookmite: stop
    Wol Euler: select "stop all animations" from the help menu
    Wester Kiranov: it seems i'm not doing something i should
    Wol Euler: sorry, in "world" enu
    Wol Euler: did you "wear" it, Wester?
    Becka Finesmith: Too funny
    Wester Kiranov: it seems not, how do i do that
    Wol Euler: ah, ok. open your inventory, it will be in the "objects" folder
    Quilty Bookmite: Drag it form your inventory onto yourself.
    Wester Kiranov: i'm wearing it now
    Wol Euler: so just say the magic word!
    Wester Kiranov: onigokko
    Wol Euler laughs
    Wester Kiranov: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite laughs maniacally
    Becka Finesmith: I have to give this to my friends :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
    Becka Finesmith: I think we are all stuck now!
    Wol Euler: stop
    Becka Finesmith: Can anyone say stop?
    Wol Euler: the problem happens if two people say it at once.
    Wol Euler: yep
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes
    Becka Finesmith: k
    Wester Kiranov: what happens then?
    Wol Euler: well, as happened earlier. Some people don't stop when you say "stop"
    Wol Euler: they have to use the menu command to kill the animation
    Wol Euler: wester, pema meint gerade daß Du auch Deutsch plappern kannst :-)
    Becka Finesmith: It's very funny though :)
    Wol Euler: heisst, er will uns zum Deutsch-Abend einladen.
    Quilty Bookmite: Are you going Wol?
    Wol Euler: pema is being insistent :)
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Becka Finesmith: OK - better let you get off. See you all soon :)
    Wol Euler: ok, bye for now; perhaps see you for happy hour?
    Quilty Bookmite: Of course, you don't have to go. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Probably not. Bed time.
    Wol Euler: ah, it's my Germanic sense of duty calling.
    Becka Finesmith: ;)
    Quilty Bookmite: Enjoy. Have a beer for me.
    Wol Euler: will do!
    Wol Euler: good night, quilty; everyone else bfn or goodnight too
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight
    Becka Finesmith: Night everyone :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Becka.
    Wester Kiranov: bye
    Becka Finesmith: namaste
    Quilty Bookmite: Namaste
    Wester Kiranov: nice gesture
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks. Want it?
    Wester Kiranov: please
    Wester Kiranov accepted your inventory offer.
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: You too Becka?
    Becka Finesmith: Te namaste?
    Becka Finesmith: the Namaste?
    Becka Finesmith: Oh
    Becka Finesmith: Thank you
    Quilty Bookmite: No. The gassho gesture.
    Becka Finesmith accepted your inventory offer.
    Wester Kiranov: how do i put this into use?
    Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Rigt click on it and activate it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Then just type
    Wester Kiranov: thanks
    Quilty Bookmite: / gassho
    Becka Finesmith: Ok - Thanks Quilty - See you soon.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, Wester. As you can see, I take my duties as a guardian seriously. :-)
    Wester Kiranov: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Probably because I'm too tired to enter into a serious philosophical discussion.
    Wester Kiranov: yeah
    Quilty Bookmite: Or not enough alcohol, i.e. none.
    Wester Kiranov: maybe you should go to the cafe then
    Quilty Bookmite: I would rather go to bed. :-)
    Wester Kiranov: sleep well then
    Quilty Bookmite: You too. Would you like me to put the fountain back?
    Wester Kiranov: that's fine
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. It will return after you leave anyway.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye.
    Wester Kiranov: bye

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