2009.03.08 07:00 - Time and the Bottle and Wildflowers

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I sat for a little while before being joined by Wol. I sat thinking of the past few days and how some tings have been falling in place for me. Then Wol arrived:

Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
Wol Euler: hello adams
Adams Rubble: Happy American daylight savings time
Wol Euler: nice outfit! matches your hair.
Wol Euler: oh yes. heh.
Adams Rubble: thanks :)
Adams Rubble: You look very nice this morning :)
Wol Euler: thank you :) a favourite outfit and some new hair.
Adams Rubble: Old hair, different color, old outfit too, a bit stripped down :)
Adams Rubble: less is better
Adams Rubble: hehe
Wol Euler grins
Wol Euler: Write that down.
Adams Rubble: dropped some of the frills
Adams Rubble: I am going through one of those agitated times again
Wol Euler: oh dear. Can you talk OR about what's happening?

As often happens I chat away before reading Wol's question

Adams Rubble: Are they swords on your arms?
Wol Euler: yep :)
Adams Rubble: Oh yes. Please don't stab me
Wol Euler: naah
Wol Euler: gentle as a lamb, I am.
Adams Rubble: Yes, I know :)
Wol Euler: unless you are a noob who needs to be expelled and banned

Now I get around to trying to answer. I start with what my identities are doing which is a bit like stalling except it has been a part of the story this week. I have learned to isolate them but I still usually rein them in when they start to get too needy.

Adams Rubble: How to start :)
Adams Rubble: You know I get an edge when I stay with this avatar
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Adams Rubble: but I start to get a bit silly too
Adams Rubble: in the past I have looked for some balance
Adams Rubble: but for various reasons I stayed with it this week and seem to be getting some payoff
Adams Rubble: but it is hard to put in words

From needy identities to the big stuff

Adams Rubble: I almost think I had a sense of what Being is yesterday
Wol Euler: ah!
Adams Rubble: but I can't say it
Adams Rubble: but it connects one with everything
Wol Euler nods. that sounds about right.
Wol Euler: and not being able to express it in words also seems to fit.
Adams Rubble: I drew a diagram that I haven't digitized yet

Later Pema was to make my diagram obsolete. Still I hope to post it as my understanding of things yesterday

Adams Rubble: in it I had a present man and woman holding hands with past and future people
Adams Rubble: human beings
Adams Rubble: that is the timelessness
Adams Rubble: in open space...no boundaries
Wol Euler nods
Adams Rubble: For me it is a big step
Adams Rubble: Stim's comment about presence being ion the context of timelessness has been the key for me

Stim made this comment at the dialog last Monday, March 2 at 13:00 (not posted when I wroe this)

Adams Rubble talks alot :)
Wol Euler listens and ponders
Adams Rubble: I have been applying timlessness to everything I can :)
Wol Euler smiles
Adams Rubble: even my avatar :)
Wol Euler: indeed? How does that work?
Adams Rubble: Well it says things about ones RL avatar for one
Adams Rubble: But something else
Adams Rubble: for me it is a bit like astronomers looking at stars

Scath joins us

Adams Rubble: Hi Scath
Wol Euler: hello scath
Adams Rubble: The astronomers look at the star from two different places on earth
Adams Rubble: triangulation
Adams Rubble: In a way, I am looking at the world a bit like that
Adams Rubble: from two different perspectives
Adams Rubble: very loose analogy
Adams Rubble: but it comes from thhinking in the context of timelessness
Adams Rubble: Scath, sorry to keep talking
Scathach Rhiadra: np:)
Adams Rubble: I was explaining to Wol some of the things that have been happening to me the past few days
Wol Euler thwaps Adams with a cushion. Stop apologising.
Adams Rubble: hehe
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: I inherited that from my mohter :)
Adams Rubble: mother
Wol Euler: so it's an heirloom to be treasured and enjoyed.
Wol Euler: go with it.
Adams Rubble: hehe
Scathach Rhiadra: :)

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/..._am_made_of%22 (Saturday Morning Discussion)

Wol Euler: scath, I read the log from saturday morning, when you were talking with Udge about timelessness.
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm
Adams Rubble: Scath. I have been thinking much about Stim's comment about presence being seen in the context of timelessness
Adams Rubble: Oh my
Adams Rubble listens
Wol Euler: could you expand on that a little, please?
Wol Euler: (adams about Stim)

I missed Wol's question. It might be best to read Monday's log

Adams Rubble: Sorry I haven;t read that
Adams Rubble: (hehe)
Adams Rubble: but I will
Adams Rubble: I should further explain I have been applying timelessness to everyting
Wol Euler: you started by saying that you were going through agitated times. Is that related to applying timelessness?
Adams Rubble: Scath or me?
Wol Euler: adams
Scathach Rhiadra listens
Adams Rubble: No that is related to other things
Wol Euler: ah, ok.
Adams Rubble: There is more there. I did take notice that my ddreams have been very agitated the past few nights
Adams Rubble: but I haven't remembered any dreams yet
Adams Rubble: No, the agitation is giving some drive, some energy
Adams Rubble: Words do get very hard here :)
Wol Euler nods
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Wol Euler: Narrow it down perhaps, say what it isn't.
Adams Rubble: One problem is I am not sure we are talking about agitation or my thinking about Being :)
Wol Euler: whichever is most helpful :)
Adams Rubble: Let's forget the agitation :)
Wol Euler: ok
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Adams Rubble: Unless I start babbling silliness
Adams Rubble: which may happen
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler holds a cushion ready.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Looking at things in the context of timelessness

Wol Euler: I'm thinking about "applying timelessness to everything", Adams, and wondering how that works.
Adams Rubble: I am looking back. I should send Scath what I erarlier said about Being
Adams Rubble: Ooooh. It's quite interwoven
Wol Euler: let me send her a notecard then, while you continue to explain.
Adams Rubble: I have had a hard time with Being because I equated it too much with God I think
Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
Pema Pera: Hi Wol, Adams, Scathach
Adams Rubble: Hi Pema :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello pema
Adams Rubble fumbling for words again
Adams Rubble: Oh thanks Wol
Wol Euler: hello pema
Adams Rubble takes a breather :)

Pema arrives and helps frame the conversation

Pema Pera: I just read your blog, Adams, yesterday morning's entry -- so glad to see these things becoming clearer to you! It really is a kind of organic growth, isn't it
Adams Rubble: yes, hard to explain though
Pema Pera: Being as not a thing, keeping identities but not overly identifying, so easy to say the words but it takes time to "see" what that all means . . . .
Scathach Rhiadra: ty Wol
Adams Rubble: yes, I realized that I have been thinking thingness by equating Being with my idea of God
Pema Pera: but you the more glimpses you get, the easier it is to recognize how someone else is fumbling for words :)
Adams Rubble: abstract thingness
Pema Pera: and communication then becomes possible

Being

Adams Rubble: but I am seeing Being more as a connection...more than a connection...but a connection nevertheless
Pema Pera: yes, all is Being
Pema Pera: we can say that every day to ourselves
Pema Pera: and everyday it becomes a bit more clear
Pema Pera: we grow up
Pema Pera: a child cannot comprehend the care and love of a parent
Pema Pera: but the more we grow up the more we comprehend
Pema Pera: we are all growing up together in comprehending Being
Pema Pera: our Parent
Pema Pera: but the odd thing is, at the same time we also *are* Being
Pema Pera: like a Moebius strip or Klein bottle, to use a few metaphors
Adams Rubble doesn;t know what they are
Pema Pera: depending on what we identify with, we are both parent and child
Pema Pera: we have that freedom
Pema Pera: what we really *are* is Being
Adams Rubble: yes our child and parent identities
Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%...bius_strip.jpg

Playing Roles

Pema Pera: what we can play as roles (roles that we have) is limitless
Wol Euler: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/spc/ugA...ein_bottle.jpg
Adams Rubble: The role playing is so helpful
Adams Rubble: see from different points...like triangulation
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: changing clothes prevents you from identifying one set as a kind of skin
Pema Pera should be changing clothes in SL more often . . . if he only had time to go shopping . . . one day!
Wol Euler grins. I'd be glad to take you out, Pema
Adams Rubble: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: Wol, if you find a shop with good T shirts, I'm game!
Pema Pera: no big lettering, only images
Wol Euler: we can get Solo to come along, he's one of the best-dressed males in SL
Pema Pera: like the one I'm wearing
Wol Euler: bound to have some good tips
Pema Pera: let's do that!
Adams Rubble was thinking of more radical changes :)
Wol Euler: shhhhh :)
Pema Pera: much as I like my scarab, it's time to descarab
Pema Pera: hehehe, Adams
Wol Euler: we'll sneak up on him with a new look
Scathach Rhiadra: ha:)
Pema Pera: anticipation rises . .. .
Pema Pera quickly saving his current avatar look, just to be on the safe side
Wol Euler grins
Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Over the summer Pema talked about fourth time and I could not comprehend that at all then, so I ask....

Adams Rubble: Is timlessness the same as fourth time?
Wol Euler: I think of 1,2,3 as a line with now inthe middle, and timelessness as the page on which that line is drawn
Scathach Rhiadra never heard of fourth time
Wol Euler: in other words, a second dimension crossing but including hte line
Pema Pera: yes, Adams, close enough at least!
Pema Pera: I also like to call it zeroth time
Pema Pera: or the eternal now
Adams Rubble: Scath, Pema has talked of fourth time
Pema Pera: yes, Wol, nice picture too
Adams Rubble: thank you Pema
Adams Rubble: and Wol

Scathach asks about the fourth dimension as Moon arrives

Scathach Rhiadra: the fourth dimension?
Pema Pera: not necessarily that
Pema Pera: in physics we sometimes think about space as having three dimensions with time the fourth dimension
Adams Rubble: Hello Moon :)
Moon Fargis: greetings
Wol Euler: hello moon
Pema Pera: but that makes a spatial presentation of time
Pema Pera: that is still linear PPF time
Pema Pera: past present future
Pema Pera: Hi Moon!
Moon Fargis: (just wear pema)
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, PPF and 'now'?
Wol Euler: as I understood it, rather PPF and the timeless all-of-it
Pema Pera: the now is the middle P of PPf in a narrow sense, the second of the three times we normally deal with
Pema Pera: the "eternal now" is different, a kind of now but more open
Pema Pera: so I like to call it zeroth time
Wol Euler: God's time, if you will, where our distinctions of present and future are as inconsequential as a single atom in the handle of a teacup to us
Pema Pera: the time that presents itself before you start divvying it up in PPF
Pema Pera: hence zero seems better than fourth
Adams Rubble thinks of the things that do not change in time that relate to all time
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Pema Pera: yes, Wol !
Adams Rubble: yes Wol

Something new for me...beyond change and constancy

Pema Pera: the zeroth time is beyond change and constancy
Pema Pera: it is not changeless
Pema Pera: not stiff or frozen or static by any means
Adams Rubble nods
Pema Pera: the notion of "change" is based on something that is normally constant and that then changes -- now that kind of base is already totally absent in ZT (Zeroth Time)
Pema Pera: in ZT there are no things and they certainly cannot even change
Adams Rubble's head explodes
Wol Euler grins
Moon Fargis: ^^
Wol Euler: actually I find this much easier today than last week when you were talking with Stim about it
Adams Rubble nods
Scathach Rhiadra: like I think of the timeless'now' not as the P in PPF, maybe different words...
Pema Pera: We are all learning to find new words, Wol, together -- and also while chewing on the same words, the taste penetrates more
Adams Rubble: applying timelessness even without fully graasping it seems helpful
Adams Rubble: the context of timelessness
Pema Pera: like the more you sip different wines, the more you become a connesseur :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: mhmm

Present and "normal present" (sounding a bit like Latin grammar lesson)

Pema Pera: yes, Scathach, you can use the word "present" as the "timeless now" but then you have to find another word for the "normal present" that most people consider themselves to live in
Pema Pera: as part of the past - normal present - future time line that they imagine to live in . . .
Pema Pera: P-NP-F ?
Pema Pera: and P=TN for timeless now
Pema Pera: quick proliferation of terms :)
Moon Fargis: P-TNT
Wol Euler: an explosive concept

We had been surrounded by beautiful tall wildflowers for much of the session and now found out why

Pema Pera: btw, Moon, I am wearing your portable garden, as you asked me to do, but for me it is still just a grey donut around us . . . .
Pema Pera: hahaha, Wol !
Pema Pera: and Moon!
Moon Fargis: oh then itsn ot rezzed yet
Moon Fargis: slow network ?
Pema Pera: what does it look like to you?

Adams Rubble enjoying the grassy field behind us
Wol Euler: flowers, weeds
Moon Fargis: a grass field :)
Adams Rubble: with wild flowers
Wol Euler: heh
Pema Pera: from wild Moon
Adams Rubble: weeds?
Wol Euler thinks of blind men and elephants
Moon Fargis: ˙·•| miaaauuuu |•·˙
Adams Rubble: Storm will be busy mowing for aa long time

Doug arrived

Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
Pema Pera: haha
Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
Moon Fargis: ../../../@api/deki/files/94/=Snapshot_002.png
Wol Euler: I thought of them as wildflowers growing in a planted field, Adams, going back to my childhood. In that context they would be weeds, yes.
Adams Rubble: weeds by any other name would be just as prolific
Pema Pera: Thanks for the notecard of the earlier conversation, Adams! I'm intrigued by [7:35] Wol Euler: I'm thinking about "applying timelessness to everything", Adams, and wondering how that works.
Wol Euler: :)
doug Sosa: morning.
Wol Euler: hello doug
Moon Fargis: hi doug
Pema Pera: good seeing you again, Doug

doug Sosa: been a while. time has been segmented.
Pema Pera: welcome to this segment, Doug :)
Pema Pera: how do you do that, Adams, "applying timelessness to everything"?
doug Sosa: I find the wild floweres beautiful.
Pema Pera: Moon can give them to you, Doug!
Adams Rubble: It is just a matter of the way of looking at things for me...the context
Pema Pera: what happens when you do, can you try to describe?
Adams Rubble: It makes me see it differently
Pema Pera: in what way?
Adams Rubble: Well I describe the ocean in my blog
Adams Rubble: Mainly it lifts me out of my self or identities
Pema Pera: yes, that is a very nice connection with great space
Adams Rubble: see the connections
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: yes, connection probably is the word

Watching Change and a New Suggestion for me

Pema Pera: may I suggest you to watch "change" for a few days, Adams?
Pema Pera: using "change" as a handle to try and see the world, all that presents itself, as being beyond both change and constancy?
Pema Pera: the world is not static, for sure
Pema Pera: but to say the world changes implies that there are little mostly-static things that then start changing a little here and there
Pema Pera: can you look at the world in a more radical way
Pema Pera: without even the possibility for "change"
Pema Pera: taking the bottom out
Pema Pera: the ground or the carpet, pulling the carpet out from under "change"
Pema Pera: staying only with the arising of what appears
Pema Pera: in the eternal now?
Pema Pera impersonating Adams: sorry, I talk too much :-)
Adams Rubble: hehe
doug Sosa: a change!
Pema Pera: three days, okay?
Adams Rubble looking for a more radical avatar for help
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: no need to "change" avatar, Adams, hehe
Pema Pera: just drop "change"
Wol Euler: all your future avs are already present in you, unexpressed.
Adams Rubble: hehe
Pema Pera: :)
Adams Rubble: Your assignments get harder and harder Pema :)
Pema Pera: you're asking for it, Adams :)
Pema Pera: (actually they're getting beyond easy or hard, they are now impossible :-)
Adams Rubble: hehe
doug Sosa: so, i get up in the orning, eat breakfast do a little tai chi.. etc. to see this as "no change".
doug Sosa: ?
Pema Pera: anything you do or see, Doug -- and not constancy either -- beyond both change and no change
doug Sosa: ah.
Pema Pera: not "no change" and not "change" something more radical than "change" -- something totally new and complete in each moment
Adams Rubble: What part of Winter into Spring is beyond change or conastancy?
Pema Pera: "change" is too static still
Pema Pera: As Dogen said: winter does not change into spring
Pema Pera: winter is winter and spring is spring
Adams Rubble notices it makes it easier of one mispells one of the words
Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogen
doug Sosa: "constantly changing while being the same.. Notice that at no moment is it either just spring or just winter."?
doug Sosa: either should be neither..
Pema Pera: not the same, not changing, but freshly arising in each moment
Pema Pera: completely dropping the constant-change dichotomy language
Adams Rubble: ah
Pema Pera: hence complete freedom
Adams Rubble: so....
Adams Rubble: I look at change while dropping the language to describe it

As I think about my assignment, Wol presses onward...

Wol Euler: I have difficulty applying this concept of timelessness to "real life" though.
Wol Euler: because real change in the state of real objects seems to surround me.
Pema Pera: seems to
Pema Pera: that is key
Wol Euler: I can grant you that the bush with flowers today is the same one that had none yesterday
Pema Pera: how to look through that?
Wol Euler: but this seems to apply badly to non-natural objects.
Pema Pera: not the same, Wol
Pema Pera: nothing is ever the same . . . .
Pema Pera: that's our laziness
Pema Pera: our tendency for "bleeding on" from moment to moment, as Stim puts it
Moon Fargis: hmm there are no flowers
Wol Euler: that seems to me a useful tendency though.
Pema Pera: useful once we realize how to do it for practical purposes, very very bad if it becomes an addiction, and we don't know any other way
Wol Euler nods. Udge was saying something similar to Scath yesterday morning, about being attached to the "applicability" of concepts
Moon Fargis: pema du you see the flowers now ?
Pema Pera: still now, sad to say . . .
Adams Rubble: Like many of the expercises we have had, even doing them badly is sueful
Adams Rubble: useful not sueful
Pema Pera: yes, very much so
Moon Fargis: so you dont see them as wol see them so
Moon Fargis: but still youre looking at the same object
Pema Pera: sue your self, Adams, and see whether you become selfless :)
Wol Euler: :)
Moon Fargis: and it is different for you both then
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Adams Rubble: Does PaB have insureance?
Pema Pera: not the same object, Moon :)
Pema Pera: but we can both point to it, yes
Pema Pera: insureance . . . .
Pema Pera: surveillance . . .
Adams Rubble: insurance
Pema Pera: :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Moon Fargis: well thats what i wanted to point to ^^ we all look at basicly the same object but really we are looking at 6 other objects
Wol Euler: I disagree about them being different objects.
Moon Fargis: becasue we create the description of those object in our mind
Moon Fargis: see other colours other shapes
Pema Pera: in normal parlance we can call them "the same object", sure
Wol Euler: but there _is_ an object
Pema Pera: that is then an abstraction
Pema Pera: what we experience *concretely* is different
Wol Euler: if the "your car" object that I see is not the same object as the "my car" object that you see,
Pema Pera: but yes, we can share an abstraction
Adams Rubble: but there is no object, just an appearance
Wol Euler: then why do you think "my car" is missing when I steal "your car"?
Pema Pera: hahaha, Wol
Pema Pera: the abstractions help here
Pema Pera: there is a category of experiences that I label as "my car" and not "your car"
Pema Pera: but the category is abstract
Pema Pera: only what arises in each moment is really concrete
Pema Pera: and this is not trying to play with words
Pema Pera: it can help you to focus on recognizing "arising" as the *only* concrete thing ever in your life!
Pema Pera: I hope I didn't steal your thunder while you were busy stealing my car, Wol :)
Wol Euler laughs
Pema Pera: we live an impoverished life, we live in a world of abstractions . . . upside down, confusing what is abstract and concrete . . . we got it all wrong!
Pema Pera: that's why we're so hungry, thirsthy, needy . . . abstractions don't fill us, don't fulfill
Moon Fargis: the problem is.. aslong we are searching for the right we get it wrong

Corvi teleports in and then makes her way through the tall flowers

Adams Rubble: Hi Corvi :)
Pema Pera: Hi Corvi
Moon Fargis: hi corvi :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Corvi
Wol Euler: right, which says to me that things do exist and the time in which they exist also exists.
Wol Euler: hello corvi
Adams Rubble: Fun seeing Corvi come through the flowers
Pema Pera: yes, Moon, we have to see, but searching seems to be a way to learn to see . . . not searching doesn't seem to work either
Pema Pera: existence is an abstraction Wol !!!!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi. *sings* There's a bad moon rising on the left.....
Pema Pera: an addition
Moon Fargis: haha
Pema Pera: like leaded gasoline
Pema Pera: very unhealthy
Moon Fargis: nooo whyyy
Moon Fargis: not bad
Moon Fargis: nono
Pema Pera: (to Wol)

The Milk Bottle Affair

Wol Euler: if I drop a milk bottle and it shatters, can you pour milk fro it into your coffee?
Adams Rubble: ?
Moon Fargis: wol, sure
Pema Pera: no, Wol, but why?
Wol Euler: (I'm not channeling Sam, I really am trying to understand)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: if I see a movie with a bottle breaking, dus that mean the bottle really exists?
Pema Pera: yes, Wol, thank you, this is fun!
Wol Euler: no but I don't think that it does.
Pema Pera: and helpful, at least for me
Wol Euler: I do think htat the bottle that used to be in my fridge, used to contain milk
Pema Pera: that's the problem, nothing exists . . . .
Pema Pera: there is the arising of the appearance of fridge and bottle and Wol all together . . . .
Pema Pera: that's all
Pema Pera: the rest is addition
Pema Pera: and addiction
Pema Pera: very unhealthy
Wol Euler: that suggests to me that it is only arising for me, in my perception
Pema Pera: your sense of you is *also* arising
Wol Euler: why then can you not pour milk from the bottle that I broke?
Pema Pera: part of the package!
Pema Pera: there is no you, no milk, no bottle
Wol Euler: surely in your perception it need not have broken
Pema Pera: no past in which you broke it
Pema Pera: but there IS the presence of the appearance of all that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i think the point is here that the package includes all ofus.
Pema Pera: yes!!!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that we are one pattern.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and one arising of appearance.
Pema Pera: yes, more than unified -- already one whole
Pema Pera: arising is unitary
Wol Euler struggles valiantly to grasp this.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so Pema...Wol...me...there is one "reality" and a few "realities" within it...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but then...again...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: there is reality?
Scathach Rhiadra: is the question Wol, not rather whether you can perceive Pema pouring milk from the bottle which you remember breaking?
Pema Pera: perhaps Adams' challenge may help, Wol, three days without change :-)
Pema Pera: there is only the presence of appearance, Corvi
Pema Pera: everything else are abstractions built on top of that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well it appears to me the bottle is roken
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to Wol the bottle is broken
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to me i'm eating my cereal dry.
Pema Pera: (meta remark: I feel we are really getting deeper into things now, this is all very encouraging, and I'm learning to see all this more clearly while we speak)
Moon Fargis: hehe
Scathach Rhiadra: but the memory of it breaking is in the 'now'
Pema Pera: yes it all appears, Corvi :)
Moon Fargis: so now just think:
Wol Euler: in which time is the "fact" (call it that) that I have no bottle and no milk?
Moon Fargis: yu learned you have the do this to get the milk out of the bottle all your life
Pema Pera: yes, Scathach, the memory is part of the package
Moon Fargis: then the bottle is not brken
Moon Fargis: its open
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to me there is a story...bottle broke...before....i eat my cereal now....dry.
Pema Pera: Wol, the problem is one of context: a bottle in a movie is made of glass (within the story of the movie, an abstraction on top of the light) or light (when you look more concretely) -- both are true
Pema Pera: but "light" is the more fundamental one
Scathach Rhiadra: and the relatedness otf the memory and the current perception of the broken bottle, so to speak, give us a sense of 'time'
Pema Pera: the other is an interesting illusion
Wol Euler: granted, both are OK so far.
Pema Pera: yes, Scathach
Wol Euler nods. I am definitely hung up on "applicability".
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i wish you hadn't broken that bottle, Wol.
Scathach Rhiadra nods:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd like some milk on my cereal.

Moon starts playing with the metaphor

Moon Fargis: i wish you hadn't opend it that way :)
Adams Rubble agrees with Corvi
Wol Euler: My experience and memory and perceptionand belief tell me that a broken cup remains broken
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Adams Rubble: and Moon
Wol Euler: and that I cannot drink from it before I buy it, either.
Moon Fargis: hmm cats would drink of it
Wol Euler: but not before it breaks, moon.
Pema Pera: when you change, Wol, the name "Wol" does not change, does not get "wollier" (or "woolier") . . . . so Wol is draped on top of you as an abstraction, a lable, a handle -- in that way, ALL OBJECTS AND THINGS in terms we think are abstractions layered on top of what arises -- and the big joke is that we call a stone "concrete" -- how preposterous!!
Moon Fargis: or you try to catch up that milk with something and fix the bottle pices with glue
Moon Fargis: then you can refill the catched milk again :)
Pema Pera wouldn't drink from Moon's bottles . . .
Wol Euler: nor I :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Moon Fargis: meep
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: thinks of cut lips ...
Pema Pera: but would be willing to try moonshine, though
Moon Fargis: hmmm this drug?
Moon Fargis: well
Pema Pera: for Moon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine
Adams Rubble hasn't understood anything since Wol broke the milk bottle
Wol Euler: ((I really do empathise with Sam right now, by the way, I am struggling with this and getting so frustrated by it - by myself))
Adams Rubble: Struggle is good Wol :)
Pema Pera: that's good, Wol: the challenge is to radically jump outside the categories that we have been educated in, all our life, doesn't come easy!
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Wol Euler: I believe that, that is why I stay with it - unlike Sam.
Pema Pera: and you actually would be happy to have your believes tuned up :-)
Pema Pera: beliefs
Scathach Rhiadra nods:)
Adams Rubble: and you don't want to change us :)
Pema Pera: unlike Sam, as Wester pointed out so clearly
Wol Euler: heheheh
Pema Pera: (I used "tuned up" to avoid change, you noticed it, Adams :-)
Adams Rubble: no :)
Pema Pera: (words are so contradictory . . . )
Adams Rubble: I do now
Pema Pera: (oops, gave myself away)
Wol Euler: aha!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i want to change us
Pema Pera: more accurately, the point is to *drop* all beliefs
Pema Pera: not change
Pema Pera: not tune up
Pema Pera: that was just an approximation
Corvuscorva Nightfire: all the time.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i want to dance with us till we are something different
Adams Rubble suggests Wol be more careful pouring milk :)
Pema Pera: Corvi, if there is no "us" your work is done already
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and something different the next day
Pema Pera: yes, Corvi
Adams Rubble: :) Corvi
Pema Pera: and we are already -- just a matter of noticing it :)

 Pema Gets Ready to Leave

Pema Pera: Well, I have to go . . .
Pema Pera: what a great discussion!
Pema Pera: thank you all so much
Adams Rubble: bye Pema...we've gone a long time :)
Moon Fargis: ok ^^ see you soon pema :)
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)
Pema Pera: and I'm afraid I'll have to take my moonshine flowers with me . . . .
Wol Euler: yes, thank you pema, and adams moon scath and corvi too
Pema Pera: bfn!
Wol Euler: wow
Moon Fargis: ^^
Adams Rubble: wow
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: hahaha
Wol Euler: the meadow flashed through my camera blocking the rest of the world
Pema Pera: I am beginning to see some flowers sticking out from the fog now
Pema Pera: like little insights arising . . . .
Moon Fargis: *smiles*
Moon Fargis: i wonder how the people look where he teleportet too now
Adams Rubble: hehe
Wol Euler: heheheh
Moon Fargis: Pema arising with a meadowfield around him in a classroom
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler: but there is no change, so the flowers were always there.
Moon Fargis: no i wear them :)
Wol Euler: Nobody noticed them before, that's all.
Wol Euler is being contentious.

Moon delights us with more portable garden plans and he gives us each the wildflowers that we recently experienced. Some of us wear them and the plot flowers gets thicker around us

Moon Fargis: actually i am building portable meadows and gardens
Adams Rubble: what a neat idea
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i really love them.
Wol Euler: what a great idea.
Moon Fargis: so you just sit somewhere, wear it and youre surrounded by a great garden or meadow
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, we will all want one:)
Adams Rubble: Would be great for cities
Wol Euler: absolutely.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: they're a little laggy though
Moon Fargis: here is the first one :)
Moon Fargis: well not more laggy than a good detailed bracelet attachment
Moon Fargis: i think around 180 prims
Wol Euler: put it back on, please?
Moon Fargis: this one is specially for pab
Moon Fargis: without trees ofcourse :)
Adams Rubble: hehe. TY Moon
Scathach Rhiadra: ty Moon:)
Wol Euler: ty moon!
Moon Fargis: ^^

Moon then rezzes the other meadow he is working on and we are lost for a bit

Moon Fargis: hmm i shall try the other one here ^^
Wol Euler: wow, 5070 points of rendering cost.
Adams Rubble: where'd everyone go?
Wol Euler: heh
Adams Rubble: just name tags sticking up
Wol Euler: good god, rocks and stones too.
Scathach Rhiadra: heh:)
Moon Fargis: haha jungle pab
Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe then it's just laggy for me...heh...not laggy anymore!
Wol Euler: this needs a photo for the log
Corvuscorva Nightfire: gah..that's beautiful!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhhhhhhh
Adams Rubble: I can't find us for a photo
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i'm not moveing from here ever.
Moon Fargis: haha
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Moooooon....this is tooo pretty.
Moon Fargis: ^^ thanks
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it has an appearance of comfort.
Adams Rubble brushes away a tick
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Moon Fargis: btw who is the guardian ?
Adams Rubble raises hand
Adams Rubble: ty Moon

Wol leaves and I follow closely behind (I planned to do the log which I finally finish hours later)

Wol Euler: sorry, my dears, I must go back to RL for a while.
Adams Rubble: nice picture
Moon Fargis: ah ok see you soon wol ^^
Adams Rubble: yes, me too. It has been a fun session
Adams Rubble: bye Wol
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Wol, see you later:)
Wol Euler: I perceive myself to be hungry, and imagine that I can remedy this by cooking lunch
Scathach Rhiadra: :))
Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
Wol Euler: enjoy your Sundays.
Wol Euler: bye for now
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams:)
Moon Fargis: ^^
Adams Rubble: thanks, you too
Moon Fargis: ^^/

and then Scath goes...

Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, bye Corvi, Moon, thank you:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
Moon Fargis: bye ^^/