2009.03.10 07:00 - Time goes here

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

    Riddle Sideways: good morning
    Geo Netizen: Hi Riddle
    Geo Netizen: Hi Adams
    Riddle Sideways: shall we start small?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle, geo, Eliza :)
    Riddle Sideways: we can enlarge soon
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello everyone :)
    Adams Rubble: Small is good :)
    Geo Netizen: Hi Eliza
    Riddle Sideways: good morning eliza
    Riddle Sideways: have we met before?
    Riddle Sideways: my memory is poor
    Eliza Madrigal: Mornin', and I do not think so
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you
    Riddle Sideways: have you been to these sessions before?
    Eliza Madrigal: When reading the logs, it is easy to feel as though you've met someone though :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Riddle Sideways: it is still dark here
    Riddle Sideways: it gives an added thought toward time slots
    Riddle Sideways: and dependence (or lack of) on time
    Riddle Sideways: if my schedule can so easily be upset
    Riddle Sideways: then maybe I am not so tied to it
    Adams Rubble is not sure what Riddle is talking about
    Adams Rubble: It is a riddle
    Riddle Sideways: oh dear I went rubbling to quickly this morning
    Riddle Sideways: was thinking about time, time units, present
    Adams Rubble: and darkness?
    Geo Netizen: More effected by time change than we may think
    Riddle Sideways: went toward schedules/ routines
    Riddle Sideways: and my "usual" get up time
    Geo Netizen: You are 2% more likely to have a heart attack after time change
    Riddle Sideways: is now due to DST) in darkness
    Adams Rubble: It is a nuissance getting up in the dark
    Eliza Madrigal: After a "time change" i feel as though someone is following me around..like a gap there I have to sync
    Riddle Sideways: I did read storms email
    Geo Netizen: *affected
    Adams Rubble: I thought it was 5%
    Riddle Sideways: yes, I read 5%
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... I think he had a later study ... 5%
    Riddle Sideways: only 1.8% in the fall back
    Adams Rubble: I thought of geo this morning as I was putting on my bicycle lights :)
    Geo Netizen: It is getting worse :)
    Riddle Sideways: and I read Adams' reply
    Adams Rubble: So we are agreed about the time change. hehe
    Riddle Sideways: yes, can put off heart attack for 3 more weeks
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: or why not do it at all
    Riddle Sideways: am getting to that age...
    Adams Rubble: let's keep the heart atacks at 95%
    Riddle Sideways: ok, procrastination on the heart attack subject
    Eliza Madrigal: For someone vulnerable healthwise, it seems like any "change" can affect ...maybe not true but seems that wy...have to stay flexible and open perhaps :)
    Adams Rubble: we are just grumbling Eliza :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Am talking myself int it
    Eliza Madrigal: *into
    Riddle Sideways: grumbling is one of my best things
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Adams Rubble: It does lead nicely into the time thingamajog
    Adams Rubble: thingamajig
    Geo Netizen: "We are placing these people back into February," Terman said. "We are dealing with a public health issue and the extension of Daylight Saving Time at both ends is extending the period of year in which people are most vulnerable to depression."
    Adams Rubble: who is Terman?
    Geo Netizen: Can't pin down which one made the quote
    Adams Rubble: It is quite a statement
    Geo Netizen: Michael Terman, Columbia University Medical Center
    Riddle Sideways: don't know Terman, but I like the quote
    Geo Netizen: It was just beginning to get light at 6 am ... now I've been plunged back into darkness :(
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: It is dangerous biking to work in the dark
    Geo Netizen: And we (US) are out of sync with the rest of the world
    Riddle Sideways: also read that DST was done for economic reasons... more daylight time to go shopping
    Geo Netizen: and there is evidence that the time change may use more energy
    Adams Rubble: I always thought it was agriculture
    Geo Netizen: so why ?
    Geo Netizen: Gold !
    Riddle Sideways: we/US are more depressed now
    Geo Netizen: Golf
    Geo Netizen: I mean
    Adams Rubble: we have alot to be depressed about in US after the last 8 years
    Geo Netizen: We know who extended the time too
    Adams Rubble: but Spring is coming
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Geo Netizen: Hmmmm .... we are in the middle of a blizzard
    Adams Rubble: oh my Geo
    Riddle Sideways: the last 8 years go US/us very out-o-sync with the rest of world
    Adams Rubble: yes Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: *got
    Eliza Madrigal: In Florida, there is solittle change in seasons that I tend to welcome anything to break up monotony...though it gets hot very early here now
    Adams Rubble: When does Spring get there Geo?
    Riddle Sideways: when I first moved to cal. it took some timeto feel the seasons
    Geo Netizen: End of May
    Adams Rubble: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: goodness
    Geo Netizen: But then it is summer beginning of June
    Geo Netizen: not much of a spring :)
    Riddle Sideways: and then winter in oct
    Riddle Sideways: sept?
    Geo Netizen: Wwe have had snow here every month except July
    Adams Rubble: oh my!
    Riddle Sideways: you must like it
    Geo Netizen: But I do have an unexpected day off of work today
    Eliza Madrigal: You said you are in the US geo?
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... northern
    Eliza Madrigal: yes..hm
    Adams Rubble: The time change would have a magnified effect there then
    Geo Netizen: Actually just a little south of Winnipeg
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah!
    Riddle Sideways: the border lands
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... end of June and the sun is just setting at 10:30 ... just what I need to help me sleep :(
    Adams Rubble: :(
    Eliza Madrigal: Grumbling in order then :)
    Geo Netizen: Is it obvious I’m a bit grumpy still ... been just two days
    Geo Netizen: It will take me almost two weeks to adjust
    Eliza Madrigal: I can understand taht
    Adams Rubble: Yes, it usually takes me at least a week but for some reason I am not affected by it this year so far
    Adams Rubble: I have reached one of those calm periods just at the time changed
    Adams Rubble: but I understand what you are feeling Geo
    Geo Netizen is a little jealous
    Riddle Sideways: all this PaB talk about time and loosening has had that effect
    Adams Rubble: yes, the context of timelessness
    Riddle Sideways: before we go there
    Riddle Sideways: and at the risk of actually adding a quote here
    Adams Rubble is often there it seems these days
    Riddle Sideways: I ran accross this:
    Riddle Sideways: "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being" - C.G. Jung
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm :)
    Riddle Sideways: not sure if the darkness is meant as the DST morning thing
    Eliza Madrigal: mere being...quite a thought just in that
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Riddle Sideways: but I do think the Being should be capitalized
    Geo Netizen: Begs the question of how human existence is not mere being though
    Adams Rubble: Do we need a purpose?
    Eliza Madrigal: Meaning seems to be Being there
    Geo Netizen: Even if we ‘need’ one do we get one :)
    Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm.... turn on a lamp for appearance
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: If we live in the moment, no need for purpose, we just are
    Riddle Sideways: will have to think on that Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: Looking for a purpose seems a distraction...though I admit to doing it all the time :)
    Eliza Madrigal: tail chasing
    Geo Netizen: But even if no purpose we can have an attribute such as ‘beloved’
    Eliza Madrigal: Lovely
    Adams Rubble is not saying there is no purpose...only addressing our need to llok for one
    Adams Rubble: look
    Adams Rubble: maybe replace need with desire
    Riddle Sideways: there is much in "live in the moment" that suggests "time-less-ness"
    Adams Rubble: yes!
    Geo Netizen: an 'eternal now'
    Adams Rubble: yes!
    Geo Netizen: We are suggesting a reality in which time is essential an undefined term
    Adams Rubble nods
    Geo Netizen: using ‘undefined’ as is done in mathematics
    Riddle Sideways: was doing a math problem yesterday...
    Riddle Sideways: and saw no time envolved
    Riddle Sideways: most sciences have time involved
    Riddle Sideways: but not math
    Adams Rubble: I thought Geo was defining "undefined" rather than time
    Adams Rubble: Geo?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes have to work from the end? That is Math and time?
    Geo Netizen: I was refering to time by
    Geo Netizen: using undefined as is is used in math
    Riddle Sideways: ah I thought you might be
    Geo Netizen: that is it is more than not knowing the definition
    Geo Netizen: is just has no reality
    Riddle Sideways: if we undefine the time term
    Geo Netizen: *it
    Geo Netizen: It would make no sense to refer to the beginning nor the end of this session. We would be present to the entire session as a now.
    Adams Rubble: Not sure of all that but I just feel it is not an important question to me
    Adams Rubble: yes Geo
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Adams Rubble: For me it is a connection
    Riddle Sideways: in religions there seems to be both timeless states and history/future
    Riddle Sideways: both studied
    Geo Netizen: We are certainly experience the temporal aspect of this reality we call RL
    Adams Rubble agrees with that
    Adams Rubble: and that too :)
    Adams Rubble: Aren;t they just on different levels
    Adams Rubble: we can simply transcend time
    Adams Rubble: the need for time
    Adams Rubble: the desire for time
    Adams Rubble: then come back to time when we are reayd
    Riddle Sideways: they sure seem to be, but hard to describe
    Adams Rubble: ready
    Geo Netizen: Yet both time and space are quanta here and may be just part of a meta reality in which both time and space are undefined
    Geo Netizen: so to transcend may mean to become aware of that meta reality
    Geo Netizen: It would seem to fit the descriptions of meditative experiences by some of the great teachers
    Eliza Madrigal: In bringing Being what one is "doing"...does seem to stretch time within that activity
    Riddle Sideways: it is both the eternal now in this session and that while chatting we have gone through a SL day/night
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Geo Netizen nods
    Adams Rubble: Our avatars experince the time change four times a day
    Adams Rubble: but no blizzard
    Adams Rubble: unless we want one
    Riddle Sideways: being aware of the meta and it's contradictions
    Geo Netizen bottom half of his window is blocked by snow
    Riddle Sideways: the awareness helps me start toward understanding
    Eliza Madrigal: stepping away for a moment...cooking :)
    Adams Rubble thinking of Geo's snow
    Riddle Sideways: jumping back to previous
    Adams Rubble: not ignoring Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: in music it is all about time
    Riddle Sideways: time signitures
    Geo Netizen is thinking about the term contradiction
    Riddle Sideways: time passages
    Riddle Sideways: but the great pieces become timeless
    Adams Rubble didn;t notice contradiction before
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... and sequence
    Geo Netizen: a C has duration
    Geo Netizen: but a CCCG has meaning
    Riddle Sideways: the players enter and exit at precise measures
    Riddle Sideways: major and minor things happen
    Geo Netizen: (i.e. Beginning of Beethoven’s 5th )
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: that beginning is timeless
    Adams Rubble: music is beautiful and logical at the same time
    Riddle Sideways: sooooo wrapped in exact time
    Riddle Sideways: that it is burned into most ofus
    Riddle Sideways: we carry that pebble
    Riddle Sideways: can listen to it any time
    Riddle Sideways: often hurt my fingers pounding those notes on desktop
    Geo Netizen smiles
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, can not type while playing desk-piano
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Adams Rubble: The music can help us transcend
    Riddle Sideways: that is such a big piece that I have to play air-conductor
    Riddle Sideways waves arms
    Adams Rubble picturing Riddle conducting
    Geo Netizen: Serious music may predate our language abilities
    Riddle Sideways: picture Riddle knocking items off desk
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Riddle Sideways: yes geo
    Adams Rubble nods to geo too
    Riddle Sideways: comes from the same root
    Adams Rubble nods again
    Riddle Sideways: there is that point back there
    Adams Rubble: it is another form of communication
    Riddle Sideways: where the base issues
    Riddle Sideways: we know music, sound, language, colors, warmth
    Eliza Madrigal: intrinsic to connection....rhythm and movement
    Riddle Sideways: by no name
    Riddle Sideways: the atomic we form our foundations
    Riddle Sideways: and look where we take it
    Riddle Sideways: we stand upon those macros
    Riddle Sideways: and think of the meta
    Geo Netizen listens
    Riddle Sideways: oh dear, where did that come from :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: MMM
    Riddle Sideways: 30 years ago I started programing operating systems
    Riddle Sideways: I was in charge of producing characters
    Riddle Sideways: I made pixals/dots into the letter A
    Riddle Sideways: then we built more characters
    Riddle Sideways: we put that software into libraries
    Riddle Sideways: so nobody had to write those routines again
    Riddle Sideways: but could use them to build higher forms
    Riddle Sideways: eventually we could build SL
    Riddle Sideways: and I could stand upon SL and chat of things that matter
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble looks at all the characters
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... we encapsulate complexity
    Riddle Sideways: yes, we are all characters
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Riddle Sideways: yet all same
    Adams Rubble: not quite what I was looking th though :)
    Adams Rubble: at
    Geo Netizen: That encapsulation is one of the powerful properties of language
    Riddle Sideways: I know, just like to twist it
    Adams Rubble: It was so important for people to say, yes we will make this part available so no on ehas to do it again
    Adams Rubble: Surprisingly it takes some foredihgt and goodwill
    Adams Rubble: foresight
    Adams Rubble: the forediht never works
    Riddle Sideways: we live in that complexity
    Riddle Sideways: between the simple and the choas
    Riddle Sideways: encapsulated
    Riddle Sideways: we explain in simple terms and simple examples
    Eliza Madrigal: harmony and chaos....dots dots dots which don't seem to have much to do with one another until you step into Now/Presence
    Riddle Sideways: what we think of the choas
    Geo Netizen: Sometimes the subroutines have errors :)
    Adams Rubble: lol Geo :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, know those errors(bugs) quite well
    Adams Rubble: then one uses the forediht
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes they come out as dots, dots, dots
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Geo Netizen: and sometimes you just crash :)
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: ah yes....didn't many evolutionary leaps come from what some would term "mistakes" in short term
    Eliza Madrigal: or glitches perhaps
    Geo Netizen nods
    Riddle Sideways: in fact most indiht comes from errored forediht
    Geo Netizen: The most important word in science is not eureka but ‘that’s funny’
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Riddle Sideways: well, folks we have wasted another hour here
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Has been enjoyable, thanks
    Adams Rubble: I must go now. Thank you all for a pleasant discussion :)
    Adams Rubble: bye :)
    Riddle Sideways: I must go too
    Geo Netizen: Alway a productive waist :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone :)
    Geo Netizen: *waste
    Riddle Sideways: bye ya'll

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