Tarmel Udimo was the GOC tonight. the comments are hers. I was late but then sat alone for the first 15mins before Stevenaia showed up. We talked about slots and time zones.
Tarmel Udimo: hi steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Tarmel
stevenaia Michinaga: this your new timeslot
Tarmel Udimo: no I've always had this slot unless I've got it wrong?
Tarmel Udimo: I do Tuesdays at 7:00pm and Wednesdays at 1:00am
stevenaia Michinaga: and I wednesdays at 7:00 pm
stevenaia Michinaga: and Sunday 7:00
stevenaia Michinaga: we are the two who do two
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Tarmel Udimo: hehehehehe
stevenaia Michinaga: I had a very busy evening and thought I'd stop by to listen
Tarmel Udimo: I thought perhaps you had this slot, but its Fefonz 1:00pm I'm always confusing things with as its 1:00pm in RL for me now:-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I don't need time slots to be confused
Tarmel Udimo: yes exactly:-) - well you'll just be listening to me and you talking:-)
stevenaia Michinaga: seems so
Tarmel Udimo: BRB
stevenaia Michinaga: ok, I'll contintinue the conversation
Tarmel Udimo: back - :-))))
stevenaia Michinaga: missed quite a dialog, lucky for autolog
Tarmel Udimo: hahahaha
stevenaia Michinaga: result of lack of sleep and too much work
stevenaia Michinaga: this evening I was in multiple IM's while sitting in an SL meeting on zen and uploading pictutes to a website.. so I'm here for the softer time at PaB :0
Tarmel Udimo: okay, now doing just one thing at a time:)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, let's just say I was overcommitted
stevenaia Michinaga: new chime?
Tarmel Udimo: yes moon's watch
Tarmel Udimo: do you have one?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I don't
stevenaia Michinaga: aww, with the PaB face, nice
Tarmel Udimo: looking in inventory
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if I can wear it on my ankle, ao it doesn't clash with Fael's tattoo
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
stevenaia Michinaga: I actually had one and never knew it
Tarmel Udimo: yes I've noticed you've been wearing it a bit - the tattoo I mean
We then got down to talking about PaB and whether we are hardwired with awakening or even loving for that matter.
Tarmel Udimo: how has PaB been going for you? apart from multiple IM's :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: It is a very comfortable place to learn much
stevenaia Michinaga: for me
Tarmel Udimo: me too
stevenaia Michinaga: like auditing a class on life and more, come, don't come , take the snacks of info and knowledge that are on the plate, or not... what better place to spend time
Tarmel Udimo: yes it feels very comforting and a safe place
Tarmel Udimo: and i think it has a bigger impact than we all realise
stevenaia Michinaga: we shall see :)
Tarmel Udimo: I have noticed the difference
stevenaia Michinaga: difference in what?
Tarmel Udimo: my intergration with a deeper connection to Being.
Tarmel Udimo: Its something I normally think about most of the time but now it has given me a more concrete focus
stevenaia Michinaga: certainly a new and growing understanding
Tarmel Udimo: yes and by calling it Being takes it away from the 'religious' context
Tarmel Udimo: which being a buddhist wasn't really a problem anyway:-)
stevenaia Michinaga: much baggage comes with religion
Tarmel Udimo: yes and yet when one looks at the history of civilization its always been with us, in some form or another
stevenaia Michinaga: religion or being.. or both?
stevenaia Michinaga: in an overt way
stevenaia Michinaga: of course it's always been with us
Tarmel Udimo: which makes me wander whether we are implanted with a gene that when the human has reached a certain stage they begin to 'awaken'
Tarmel Udimo: or begin to feel the pull to the return journey to the source
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders when that time is...... personally knowing many un-aware or un-awakened people
stevenaia Michinaga: but I do believe the potential for seeing is built in to all of us
Tarmel Udimo: yes perhaps that's a better way to 'see' it
stevenaia Michinaga: like the inate potential to love
stevenaia Michinaga: we all seem to have it hardwired as it awaits to emerge from within
Tarmel Udimo: yes I am still very curious about the love aspect
stevenaia Michinaga: still?
Tarmel Udimo: by that I mean I have loved people in different ways and in different contexts
Tarmel Udimo: and it no longers seems to have the same 'flavour' it used to, so curious to see where it is heading
stevenaia Michinaga: it's like conciousness and being.. what is it?
Tarmel Udimo: yes that's my meaning
stevenaia Michinaga: I see love as something a bit closer to my soul than being but is the same thing
stevenaia Michinaga: a reflection of an aspect of Being or the same thing
Tarmel Udimo: okay
stevenaia Michinaga: it is, love can grow (intensity), love can be never ending, all perfect, put being in the same place
stevenaia Michinaga: many aspects are the same, it requires openess to see it
Tarmel Udimo: yes 'Being' in love rather than just being in love
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, yes, but I see it more as love the projector in an outward way, not "in love" with something
stevenaia Michinaga: the love that makes someone else smile
Tarmel Udimo: yes understand I think that's what I mean
stevenaia Michinaga: the disarming "I love you", not the posessive "I am in love with you"
stevenaia Michinaga: the love that lets the bird out of the cage to fly freely
Tarmel Udimo: yes, or for that matter 'loving you':-)
Tarmel Udimo: no 'I' involved
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Tarmel Udimo: or just 'loving'
Tarmel Udimo: but it is fun to say 'I love you'
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to say that w/o smiling
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Then Pila showed up just as the session was ending! And since he had 'missed' the session we once again taken about time zones among other topics.
Pila Mulligan: aloha Tarmel and Steve
Tarmel Udimo: hey pila
Tarmel Udimo: welcome to the end of the session
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Pila Mulligan: oh cripes
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila, quite the evening last night, you were on quite the roll
Pila Mulligan: caught by the clock :)
stevenaia Michinaga: w/ Avastu
Tarmel Udimo: yes what evening was that?
Pila Mulligan: well, I rearely get to engage a Hindu :)
Pila Mulligan: they are more fun than Buddhists
stevenaia Michinaga: 7:00 PM yesterday
stevenaia Michinaga: haha
Tarmel Udimo: :P to Pila
Pila Mulligan: I was also an hour late then
Pila Mulligan: we dont change time here in Hawaii
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
Pila Mulligan: it takes a while for me to catch up
stevenaia Michinaga: really?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Tarmel Udimo: was that a PaB session so I can read the log:-)
stevenaia Michinaga: learn something new every day, are you in the states Tarmel?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Tarmel Udimo: no Australia
Pila Mulligan: Tarmel is in an even more compex time zone than me
Tarmel Udimo: so its Wednesday @ 2:00pm
Pila Mulligan: the daze of Oz
stevenaia Michinaga: how do you keep track?
Tarmel Udimo: I am in your future boys:-) and muchly dazed
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: however, we are one of the last places to leave the old year on 12/31
Tarmel Udimo: I have it in my computer diary....
Pila Mulligan: while OZ is first or close
Tarmel Udimo: and we are the first I think
Pila Mulligan: yep
Tarmel Udimo: It helps when you're doing business in the US because you have a whole day up your sleeve to make a deadline:-)
Pila Mulligan: :) as oppopsed to getting calls at 4:00 am
stevenaia Michinaga: lol wonders how I can make that work
Tarmel Udimo: well I get those too:-)
Pila Mulligan: I get 4:00 am calls usually from east coast US folks oblviious to the earth's rotation
Tarmel Udimo: hahaha understand most challanging
Pila Mulligan: what was discussed this time? what did I miss?
stevenaia Michinaga: I can see where no-time would be convenient in business
Pila Mulligan: but almost impossible to imagine, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: I arrived late to find Tarmel alone
Pila Mulligan: ahh, were you alone for the hour Tarmel?
Pila Mulligan: or before Steve rather
stevenaia Michinaga: came to listen.. that didn't work
Tarmel Udimo: no about 15mins and then we talked about love;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: but I did get this cool watch
Pila Mulligan: ahh, wonderful topic
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pila Mulligan: a PaB watch Steve
Tarmel Udimo: do you have Moon's watch Pila?
stevenaia Michinaga: love and Being, Being in love
Pila Mulligan: somewhere in my inventory :)
Then Pila spoke to us about how God = Love came about.
Pila Mulligan: god is love
stevenaia Michinaga: so some say
Tarmel Udimo: no more like talking about Being in love
Pila Mulligan: or, love is god )
Pila Mulligan: as oposed to being in love?
stevenaia Michinaga: grins.. that was your line
Pila Mulligan: I was in college during the heyday of the god is dead movement in American theology
Pila Mulligan: it was an interesting time to study philosophy
Pila Mulligan: there was this urgent intellectual need to rationailze the demise of the dude with the beard
Pila Mulligan: and so most people settled on the idea that love is god
stevenaia Michinaga: have vauge recollection of that
Pila Mulligan: John AT Robinson was my favorite author of the time
stevenaia Michinaga: so it was still ok to love then
Pila Mulligan: yes, and soon thereafter it was the decade of love
Pila Mulligan: but slightly different
Pila Mulligan: some called it the summer of love
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a different kind of love
Pila Mulligan: they missed most of it
Pila Mulligan: peace and love
Pila Mulligan: what more could you want?
Pila Mulligan: well, and rock and roll :)
stevenaia Michinaga: if love is awakened, how could there be war?
Tarmel Udimo: so you're saying the word God was switched to love and it became more acceptable
Pila Mulligan: some snoozers
Pila Mulligan: it had pretty much been agreed among mainstream liberal theologists that the old Diestic image of a throned God was dead
Pila Mulligan: both historically and philsophically
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders how recenlty that was truely painted
Tarmel Udimo: in the affluent parts of the western world espacilly the US:-)
Pila Mulligan: yes, where there is time for such thoughts
Pila Mulligan: the image of god as an old masculine authority figure is still pretty prevalanet in much of the world
stevenaia Michinaga: except to many women :)
Tarmel Udimo: yes it seems so or at least a God that says its okay to do whatever you're doing in my name
Pila Mulligan: so there was the intellectual struggle to make a new rationailzaiotn for the concept of god
Pila Mulligan: it became very buddhist, actually
Pila Mulligan: or taoist
Pila Mulligan: god is the ultimate reality
Pila Mulligan: and love is the essence of that reality
Pila Mulligan: compassion maybe :)
Pila Mulligan: for Buddhists
stevenaia Michinaga: and Being?
Pila Mulligan: Being is close to Reality, as it was used then
Tarmel Udimo: yes that's where i have fall out - God =love
stevenaia Michinaga: I don't really see the equivalencey of God/love
Pila Mulligan: well, the idea then was not so much to perpetuate the traditional idea of god as to put the old idea in context
Pila Mulligan: jesus said it
Pila Mulligan: Buddha used compassion as an elment of enlightenment
Pila Mulligan: in this context love is defined in the Greek sense of agape
Pila Mulligan: as oposed to bortherly or sexual love
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Pila Mulligan: and the psychological part of it is confirming the reality of your fellows
Pila Mulligan: love confirms reality
stevenaia Michinaga: that's what I was meaning Tarmel
Pila Mulligan: brb - getting rice :)
Tarmel Udimo: 20:20] Pila Mulligan: love confirms reality: humm still don't get it
stevenaia Michinaga: Love=God, equally perplexed
stevenaia Michinaga: a nice thought, perhaps, but religions seems to de-evolve that relationship in their inner workings
Pila Mulligan: the theology of the 60's died in the 70's :)
Pila Mulligan: the old dude reincarnated among Republicans
stevenaia Michinaga: runs the other way
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps resurrected might be a better term
Pila Mulligan: ah, less eastern :)
Pila Mulligan: the resurgence of diestic theology was with a vengance to
Pila Mulligan: like the backlash against all the revolution of the 60's
stevenaia Michinaga: diestic?
Pila Mulligan: the idea that love affirms reality is really pretty simple
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Pila Mulligan: deistic, theistic -- the god image of an old man
Pila Mulligan: god as love was more like buddhism in that it omits that image
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pila Mulligan: we share Reality, or a Being
Pila Mulligan: in Daoist there is the Ultimate
Pila Mulligan: that is the peak of the shared realm of Being
Pila Mulligan: and then beyond that is the Dao, ot the supreme Ultimate
Pila Mulligan: it is a concept of theology wihtout a god
Pila Mulligan: but still allowing for the spiritual and supernatural
Tarmel Udimo: okay so when we are experiencing the shared realm of being we are experiencing love?
Pila Mulligan: maybe
Pila Mulligan: we may also be expereincing other things
Pila Mulligan: the realm of being is vast
stevenaia Michinaga: I think it depends how you experince it
Tarmel Udimo: so you're not sure about what love is?
Pila Mulligan: no, I am
Pila Mulligan: I am a minimalist
Tarmel Udimo: or what we mean when we talk about love
Tarmel Udimo: not personal love
Pila Mulligan: to me it is simpler to deflate the words than inflate them
Pila Mulligan: lets start with reality
Tarmel Udimo: so-
Tarmel Udimo: okay
stevenaia Michinaga: or experience
Pila Mulligan: any questions about the word 'reality'?
Pila Mulligan: everything that is real is realtiy
Pila Mulligan: everything that is is being
Pila Mulligan: it is all exactly as it is
Tarmel Udimo: hello celleon
Tarmel Udimo: please come join us and take a seat:-)
Tarmel Udimo: okay so back to reality
Pila Mulligan: to daoists this is sometimes illustarted by a an empty circle named wu chi
Pila Mulligan: the empty circle is all that is
Pila Mulligan: when we are enlightened we see it
Pila Mulligan: there it is
Pila Mulligan: no problem
Pila Mulligan: exactly as it is
And then Celleon showed up. Much to my delight and surprise. And made it all the way to her seat. Pila then continued talking about love and compassion and told us a nice story to illustrate.
Tarmel Udimo: hello celleon
Celleon Aboma: Hello
Tarmel Udimo: come and sit down
Pila Mulligan: hi Celleon
Celleon Aboma: I will try
Pila Mulligan: come on over
Celleon Aboma: Hello Pila
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to Celleon
Celleon Aboma: I'm a newbie and slow
Tarmel Udimo: :-)
Pila Mulligan: no one is in a hurry :)
stevenaia Michinaga: no rush
Celleon Aboma: good
Tarmel Udimo: so back to love pila
Tarmel Udimo: or reality
stevenaia Michinaga: or Being
Pila Mulligan: I'm trying to describe a 60's theology relating to love
Pila Mulligan: and using daoist ideas to do it
Pila Mulligan: welcome :)
Pila Mulligan: so, the quick take on daoism according to Pila
Celleon Aboma: thanks, made it, sorry for the interruption
Pila Mulligan: not a problem, Celleon
stevenaia Michinaga: yes Daoism interests me
Tarmel Udimo: oh okay i thought you were telling us about your thoughts about love=god apart from the 60's
Pila Mulligan: well, my thoughts about love=god came from the 60's
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: so I'm kind of stuck there
stevenaia Michinaga: a nice place to be stuck
Pila Mulligan: so Chinese philosophers said lets contemplate all of reality
Pila Mulligan: evertything that is
Pila Mulligan: and they symbolized it with an empty circle they called wu chi
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: and in the highest state of consciousness one simply sees all that is
Pila Mulligan: exactly as it is
Pila Mulligan: and that is the ulitmate reality
Pila Mulligan: undistorted perception of all that is
Pila Mulligan: but the mind is a greedy bugger, and busy
Pila Mulligan: and the mind likes to do things, name things, rationalize
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: so we need to feed the mind with more ideas
Pila Mulligan: and so they took a line and divided the circle called wu chi with a line calle tai chu tu
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pila Mulligan: the division created two parts that they called yin and yang
Pila Mulligan: and from yin and yang they described everything the mind wanted, in words and concepts
Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is simply the undivided whole of reality -- wu chi in Chinese
Pila Mulligan: so what is love?
Pila Mulligan: how de we define love?
stevenaia Michinaga: listens
Pila Mulligan: any ideas?
Pila Mulligan: how to define love?
Tarmel Udimo: no that's what i have trouble with in a spiritual context
Pila Mulligan: how so
Pila Mulligan: ?
Tarmel Udimo: compassion yes
Pila Mulligan: so something about love is less worthy of spirituality than compassion?
Tarmel Udimo: yes perhaps its a move away from western concepts
Tarmel Udimo: not so much worthy but rather appropriate
Pila Mulligan: okay, then lets define whatever the idea is that is apropriate for spirituality
Tarmel Udimo: to feel compassion for one's fellow humans
Pila Mulligan: compassion is fine, but it also has limits
Pila Mulligan: love has limits, as a word
Pila Mulligan: all words have baggage
Tarmel Udimo: yes I guess that's my point and some we relate to more strongly and others we have no affinity with
Pila Mulligan: ok, let's use compassion then
Pila Mulligan: how d we define compassion?
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: affintiy?
Pila Mulligan: it is more than just affinity
Tarmel Udimo: yes its more
Pila Mulligan: caring for our fellows?
Celleon Aboma: I wonder if compassion arises naturally when we see clearly that we are the same.
Tarmel Udimo: seeing clearly
Pila Mulligan: yes, I thik it does Celleon
Pila Mulligan: if we see we understand
Tarmel Udimo: the needs of others
Pila Mulligan: in the highest state of consciousness one simply sees all that is
Pila Mulligan: and in that state there is bliss
Celleon Aboma: What gets in the way of this seeing?
Tarmel Udimo: yes and in that seeing one can respond appropriately
Pila Mulligan: ilusions get in the way, words, prejudices
Pila Mulligan: the most comon thing about reality is that it is very real
Pila Mulligan: everywhere
Pila Mulligan: beyond languages
Pila Mulligan: and so what is the best we can do for our fellow?
Tarmel Udimo: you mean the reality that we all proscribe to as reality
Celleon Aboma: Past all conditioning.
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: here is a story
Pila Mulligan: it is about a sadhu and a boddhisatva
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: it illustrates the difference between those words
Pila Mulligan: a sadhu is a Hindu term for an enlightned being
Pila Mulligan: bodhisatva is a buddhist term for an enlightened being
Pila Mulligan: these two are crossing the desert
Pila Mulligan: they get lost
Pila Mulligan: it is very hot and they think they will die
Pila Mulligan: they are crawling along and they see a mirage
Pila Mulligan: but as they approach it they realize it is actually an oasis
Pila Mulligan: surrouonded by a wall
Pila Mulligan: they climb up to the top of the wall
Pila Mulligan: inside is a beautiful place, ponds, trees, birds a very nice location
Pila Mulligan: the sadhu climbs down inside the wall
Pila Mulligan: the bodhisatva climbs down outside to go out to the desert to tell others that it is there
Tarmel Udimo: nice story pila
Pila Mulligan: that shows the difference between those words
Pila Mulligan: but they both saw the same thiing
Pila Mulligan: and the idea of bringing others there is close to the idea of affirming reality
Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh
Pila Mulligan: :)
Celleon Aboma: Its a great story Pila
Pila Mulligan: :)
Tarmel Udimo: and yet to play devils avocate here, the one that goes to tell others dies along the way and the one that rests and gets better lives to then go out and tell others about the oasis:-)
Pila Mulligan: each person decides how to respond appropriately in the face of reality, but the most common elelment of those responses usually is like compassion or love
Tarmel Udimo: so its important that each person follows their own path with true intention
Pila Mulligan: their own view of reality
Tarmel Udimo: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
Tarmel Udimo: eventually hopefully if one is 'seeing' one will also make the 'right' choice for not only oneself but for all others
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't that love?
Pila Mulligan: buddhists are so smart they are way ahead of most theolosies
Pila Mulligan: they never let the old theisic god image into their zoo to start with
Tarmel Udimo: yes it could be called love
Pila Mulligan: so when buddha said here is enlightenment and here is comassion
Pila Mulligan: he was probaly closer than when the 60's theologist said god is love
Pila Mulligan: but they sit side by side
Pila Mulligan: enlightenment and god beside compassion and love
Tarmel Udimo: hummm
stevenaia Michinaga: that would be a nice meeting to watch, those 4
Pila Mulligan: :0
Pila Mulligan: they converge in your heart :)
stevenaia Michinaga: indeed
Tarmel Udimo: :-)
Pila Mulligan: then you have to get off the wall :)
Pila Mulligan: this is why Pila goes off some times on ethics, here at PaB
Pila Mulligan: to much enlightenment, not enuf compassion
Tarmel Udimo: hahahaha
stevenaia Michinaga: ok, 4 states walk into a bar.. there must be a good punchline in there somewhere
Pila Mulligan: :)
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Tarmel Udimo: still with us Celleon?
Celleon Aboma: I'm listening keenly and wondering about the energy that is compassion.
Pila Mulligan: I think the best way to describe that energy is 'light'
stevenaia Michinaga: the energy of openness
Celleon Aboma: It is able to move us. Is its source love or are they one and the same?
Pila Mulligan: The fruits of success in contemplative practices are described by various traditions in somewhat different terms, but their essential descriptions commonly refer to well-being, happiness and awareness
Pila Mulligan: that's enlightenment or god
Pila Mulligan: compassion or love is what you take with you off the wall
Pila Mulligan: that's why I'd use the term 'light'
Celleon Aboma: The light of seeing?
Pila Mulligan: the light of lucid seeing
Pila Mulligan: it has a quality
Pila Mulligan: a unique quality
Pila Mulligan: you recognize it when you see it
Celleon Aboma: You become 'the seeing, the clarity'.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Tarmel Udimo: sorry folks in the middle of answering an email but still here in spirit:-)
Pila Mulligan: here's one of my favorite chinese poems ..about wu chi
Pila Mulligan: (done it here before)
Pila Mulligan: Without beginning, without end, without past, without future.
A halo of light surrounds the world of law.
We forget one another, quiet and pure, altogether powerful and empty.
The emptiness is irradiated by the light of the heart and of heaven.
The water of the sea is smooth and mirrors the moon in its surface.
The clouds disappear in blue space; the mountains shine clear.
Consciousness reverts to contemplation; the moon disk rests alone.
stevenaia Michinaga: nice the meanings reveals itself differently each time you read it
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I know I saw it before here
Celleon Aboma: How beautiful. I like the line: 'the emptiness is irradiated by the light of the heart and of heaven'
Pila Mulligan: yep, light :)
Celleon Aboma: Moment to moment
stevenaia Michinaga: light is a nice medium to carry enlightenment
stevenaia Michinaga: even in the dark
Pila Mulligan: :)
Then it was time to go as it was already over 2hours. Another successful PaB session.
Pila Mulligan: well, this was fun
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it's getting late for me, I've caught up to Tarmel's tomorrow
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you again Celleon
Pila Mulligan: always nice to chat with you Steve and Tarmel
Celleon Aboma: It was great being here Pila and Stevenaia.
stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you Calleon
Celleon Aboma: and of course Tarmel
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: and glad I join you today Tarmel
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy your meal, Pila
Pila Mulligan: thanks, aloha `oe
Celleon Aboma: I think I'll be off myself.
Tarmel Udimo: I'm back, but will have to go too.
Celleon Aboma: So, until next time, take care.
Tarmel Udimo: see you steve
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Tarmel Udimo: see you celleon
Celleon Aboma: OK, later Night Steve
Images 0 | ||
---|---|---|
No images to display in the gallery. |