2009.03.21 13:00 - Love God and Love Your Neighbour

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Auroras Graves: what is todays topic ?
    Arisia Vita: welcome Ara and Scat
    Auroras Graves: Hello Arabella and Scathach
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara, Ari, Auroras
    Auroras Graves: welcome :)
    Arisia Vita: welcome Mic
    Auroras Graves: Hello Mickorod
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
    arabella Ella: hiya Mick
    Mickorod Renard: hiya Arisa Ara aurora scath
    Mickorod Renard: please excuse me I am just eating dinner
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    arabella Ella: bon appetit
    Mickorod Renard: mercie
    Auroras Graves: Hello again Pema
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
    Pema Pera: small world, isn't it, Auroras :)
    arabella Ella: hiya Pema
    Auroras Graves: definitly :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Pema
    Auroras Graves: but i do blame Arisia :)
    Pema Pera: Did Ari shrink the world?
    Arisia Vita looks down...
    Auroras Graves: he seems to know everyone here and especially the places worth visiting
    Pema Pera: I'm learning that, yes :)
    Arisia Vita: I've been lucky with my friends
    Auroras had been at the popular astronomy talk organized by MICA and given by Curious George, a few hours earlier.
    Auroras Graves: and curious george said that we shall put our trust in Pema too :)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    arabella Ella: I second curious george and Arisia too then
    Pema Pera: if you want to know what it feels like to fall into a black hole, yes, then you can put your trust in me
    arabella Ella smiles
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: (is what George implied, a few hours ago)
    Pema Pera: (at the MICA popular talk)
    Auroras Graves: hahahaa !!! well, it would be of much help when we are in there, since your answer would not reach us :)
    Auroras Graves: Hello Zen
    Arisia Vita: welcome Zen
    Pema Pera: you have to fall along with me, Auroras, otherwise it is no fun!
    arabella Ella: hiya Zen
    Arisia Vita: then I'm going too!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Zen
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Zen
    Pema Pera: if the black hole is large enough, we can keep communicating for quite a while
    Auroras Graves: your answer would not reach me then either, if i recall correctly :)
    Zen Arado: Hello everyone
    Pema Pera sees the whole PaB community going down the (cosmic) drain
    Auroras Graves: still among the horizon ?
    Pema Pera: hi Zen!
    Auroras Graves: hahahaaa
    Auroras Graves: well, there are worse topics
    Pema Pera: sure, white holes!
    Zen Arado: Hi Pema :)
    Pema Pera: you can get out but not in!
    Pema Pera: time reversed from black holes
    Auroras Graves: is there a special astromonical event today ? the tv stations are full with Astro stuff today )
    Pema Pera: the whole year is special
    Pema Pera: 2009 is the international astronomy year
    Auroras Graves: today it seems the shows are clustering up
    Mickorod Renard: you could scedule lots of classes at the same time at the event horizon
    Pema Pera: http://astronomy2009.us/
    Pema Pera: but don't get out of bed on the wrong foot then, Mick
    Pema Pera: or the wrong side!
    Auroras Graves: ouch......
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Auroras Graves: thanks, but i dont need longer legs....
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Auroras Graves: what is todays topic, anyway ?
    Pema Pera: no topic right now
    Pema Pera: most of the time we don't have a topic
    I brought up the fascinating discussions we had six hours earlier.
    Pema Pera: this morning at 7 am was an exception
    Pema Pera: we had a theme of "karma and sin"
    Pema Pera: comparison with Buddhism and Christianity
    Zen Arado: interesting
    Auroras Graves: bad pun - "my karma run over my dogma"
    Pema Pera: Geo took the Christian side
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: and although I am not a Buddhist, I took the Buddhist side
    Pema Pera: Geo gave a lovely summary of his felt beliefs/inspiration
    Zen Arado: can't see what the 'sides would be?
    Zen Arado: sin and karma are different things aren't they?
    arabella Ella: Geo came across as a very honest person ... very interesting too
    arabella Ella: and very patient with all our questions :)
    arabella Ella: we could have gone on for hours
    Auroras Graves: mmmhhh, will the log be online soon ?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,, nice guy
    Pema Pera: different yet there are far more parallels than we would normally think, Zen
    Zen Arado: yes?
    Pema Pera: I think so, Auroras, Adams will put it up

    (Pema then quoted from that session.)

    Geo Netizen: Fundamental to all Franciscan theology is the idea that the core nature of the divine is love and perfection; God is perfect love. 
    Geo Netizen: All other attributes of the divine are root in, colored by and flow from this core nature. 
    Geo Netizen: And all love which we experience, including eros, philia and agape, has its origin and source in the divine.
    Geo Netizen: With that background:
    Geo Netizen: Sin is a free act by an individual away from this love. 
    Geo Netizen: I use the word act in a broad sense here which would include thoughts, words and deeds. 
    Geo Netizen: We are called to act in ways that move us to embrace this love. 
    Geo Netizen: (the opposite :) 
    Geo Netizen: Acts have effects and sin creates negative effects that can be experienced by the actor and by others including later generations. 
    Geo Netizen: Movement away from love can create currents that sweep others away.
    Geo Netizen: People generally find this to be vague and they say “Just tell me what to do”. 
    Geo Netizen: That is why rules and commandments are very popular; the ‘thou shall nots’. 
    Geo Netizen: The breaking of these rules is a sin, not because a rule is broking, but because the act that breaks the rule is a movement away from love. 
    Geo Netizen: The sin lies in the movement away. 
    Geo Netizen: One who moves continually towards and embraces this love does not need rules and laws and is free from them.
    Geo Netizen: This is, to the surprise of many Christians, a fundamental Pauline idea. :))
    Zen Arado: hmmmmm yes I see
    Zen Arado: never thought of it that way
    Pema Pera: Geo is a gem :-)
    Mickorod Renard: not sure what a paul;ine idea is,,but sounds interesting
    Arisia Vita: welcome Korii
    Korii Tiger: hi
    Pema Pera: Saint Paul is generally not know for this kind of speech
    Auroras Graves: Welcome Korii
    Mickorod Renard: hiya Kori
    arabella Ella: hiya Korii
    Pema Pera: Pauline = (sayings) by Paul
    Pema Pera: hi Korii
    Zen Arado: but the christian idea is that we get punishment for transgressing God's laws?
    arabella Ella: by St Paul
    Korii Tiger: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I see
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Korii
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    Korii Tiger: Hello every one
    Zen Arado: punihed by God
    Auroras Graves: well, i am working with various flavours of christians and they usually never give arguments as clear and honest :)
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure that is right Zen
    Zen Arado: karma we just reap what we sow ?
    Auroras expressed the sentiment many of us had.
    Auroras Graves: a great treat to hear it without all the dogmas
    Pema Pera: yes
    Zen Arado: ok just ythinking about it
    arabella Ella nods
    Pema Pera: yes, Zen, that is what we often here, but there is room for other interpretations
    Zen Arado: sure
    Mickorod Renard: There is a certain amount of diferent belief between Christians anyway
    Pema Pera: and monks spending hours each day in prayer and meditation are more authentic and honest that priests and mullahs and pundits
    Zen Arado: I was an evangelical christian for a long time
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    arabella Ella: especially franciscans Pema
    Pema Pera: yes
    Zen Arado: then turned to philosophy then Buddhism
    Auroras Graves: got raised by the teachings of Luther, had a half crazed priest and turned Atheist with 5
    Mickorod Renard: I think in the end if you are a good person then that is sufficient,,but working out what good is can be more complicated than some at first think
    Zen Arado: we get lost in definitions
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,and motives
    Auroras Graves: and folks claiming to have the only and last truth
    Zen Arado: yes
    arabella Ella: if you are christian i think the two most important things are Love God and Love your neighbour
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Auroras Graves: and i wont even start with the last news about the Pope
    Pema Pera: yes
    Zen Arado: yes Jesus said that.....
    Mickorod Renard: well,,maybe he is best left out
    Mickorod Renard: the pope
    Zen Arado: does Buddhism claim to have the only and last truth?
    Pema Pera: there are so many different ways of looking at the same reality -- and the difference is more between authentic or not than it is between what angle you choose
    arabella Ella nods
    Pema Pera: The way I expressed it recently in an email exchange was as follows:
    Pema Pera: The point is to see. That is enough. When you see a tree, you don't have to become a leafist or a rootist or a dewdropist or a vineist or a moistureist or a blossomist or a shadeist. You just see the tree, hug it, lean against it, swing from it, smell it, feel its presence, whatever you like, and celebrate being part of the same realm as that tree, given together, appearing together. That's enough.
    Zen Arado: yes Pema
    arabella Ella smiles at that idea
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Zen Arado: so why do we talk so much :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: to share, Zen
    Auroras Graves: because we want others to believe as we do
    Zen Arado: we still need some guidance
    Auroras Graves: so we dont feel completly nuts :)
    Arabella summed it up:
    arabella Ella: we as humans are social beings and we have an innate need to share our experiences
    Auroras Graves: and it strenghens the group, easier to see who is friend or fiend
    Zen Arado: yes
    arabella Ella: but sharing experiences does not imply either conflict or power
    Zen Arado: reassurance
    arabella Ella: i prefer to enjoy diversity of opinion
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Mickorod Renard: me too Ara
    Scathach Rhiadra: if we only gor confirmation of our own beleifs we would never learn anything
    arabella Ella: exactly Scath
    Mickorod Renard: Its a shame we cannot (human race) be more inquisitive of instead of rejectful of diferent beliefs
    arabella Ella: we could learn and make an effort to be more inquisitive Mick
    Pema Pera: yes, Play as Being is about exploring, by dropping beliefs, or better, wearing them lightly, with a willingness to consider alternatives
    Auroras Graves: to accept another opinion means we have to question ourselves
    arabella Ella: nurture the curious child within each and every one of us
    Pema Pera: yes
    Zen Arado: we cling to our beliefs so much
    Zen Arado: freeze them
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,well I do my best,,but am suprised at the horror that brings when talking to some folk
    arabella Ella: we also need to be tolerant and open to the opinion of others which clashes with ours
    Mickorod Renard: about looking at other stuff
    Mickorod Renard: much misconception about
    arabella Ella: curiousity, tolerance, respect
    Auroras Graves: how shall we encounter people who try to force their opinion on us ?
    Pema Pera: gently :)
    Pema Pera: yet firmly
    arabella Ella: i personally feel that forcing one's opinion on others should be avoided at all costs
    Mickorod Renard: ;-)
    Zen came up with a few rather extreme missionary examples.
    Zen Arado: like Mormons, Jehovahs witnesses
    Auroras Graves: oh, that is easy
    arabella Ella: oh yea jehova's woke me up with the doorbell this saturday morning
    Zen Arado: do you stay open to their teachings?
    arabella Ella: :)
    Auroras Graves: just put up an "i am a blood donator" at your door :)
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Zen Arado: well I really went into Mormon teachings
    arabella Ella: it is difficult to discuss matters openly with ppl who are closed minded
    Zen Arado: their ;ifestyle is impressive
    Pema Pera: actually, it can be interesting to talk with Mormons and Jehovah witnesses -- they really are sincere in their own way, and they really are dedicated; pity they aim it in the way they do, but if you can connect with their sincerity, both you and them can learn, as I have experienced
    Mickorod Renard: I like reading their lil booklets
    Zen Arado: they have great community spirit
    Pema Pera: the trick is to move from their "facts" to their "feelings" but it is possible
    arabella Ella: but Pema i don't like they way they try to impose their ideas on others
    arabella Ella: they are not open to discuss matters
    Zen Arado: but that stems from their beliefs
    Mickorod Renard: they have a strong belief
    arabella Ella: or dogma
    arabella Ella: categorical
    Zen Arado: evangelicals believe the rest of us sre doomed sinners who need to be rescued
    arabella Ella: well if we are so are they
    Auroras Graves: it seems to my they target those who are in a difficult time of life
    Zen Arado: they feel compassion for us
    Zen Arado: ah yes
    Auroras Graves: they come to friends that just got divorced
    Pema Pera: I have the advantage of knowing the bible better than most of them do, with my Dutch Reformed upbringing, so I first counter their arguments, then they are shocked, and that then gives me an opening to talk about their actual experience, which often is quite impressive
    arabella Ella: after all to be human is to err
    Mickorod Renard: evangelists do believe they are sinners
    Zen Arado: yes saved by the grace of God
    Mickorod Renard: but they believe in their repentance
    Mickorod Renard: and that Jesus has paid for our sins
    Auroras Graves: i once read some of the "lost books" of the Bible, the ones that did not make it into the official version, mostly about the 30 years of Jesus
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Mickorod Renard: thats cool
    Zen Arado: the problem with believing in a book like the bibleis that it gets out of date
    arabella Ella: how did u get to them Aroroas?
    Auroras Graves: it seems the more books that are out there, the more they contradict each other
    Auroras Graves: easy, they are in the librabry
    arabella Ella: oh
    Auroras Graves: let me see what they are called in english
    arabella Ella: you would not find them in libraries where i am
    Auroras Graves: kryptic books ?
    Auroras Graves: darn english
    Zen Arado: yes - that 'word of God' idea is what most put me off christianity
    arabella Ella: not Koptic?
    Zen Arado: Apocrypha
    Scathach Rhiadra: Gnostic, maybe:)
    Auroras Graves: thanks !!! Zen got it
    Mickorod Renard: Well, I think its the message that you take from the writings that is important,,
    Auroras Graves: but which translation do you use ?
    arabella Ella: but Mick there are often many interpretations even amonst christians
    Mickorod Renard: you mean they wernt written in English?
    arabella Ella: no
    Zen Arado: no I think that is the few extra onee the catholics use on second thoughts
    Auroras Graves: they even removed the rule "Thou shall not make pictures of the things in heaven or Earth"
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,all the bibles I have read are in english
    A good opportunity to talk about languages in general.
    Auroras Graves: english is my third language
    arabella Ella: what is your first language Auroras?
    Auroras Graves: the books got translated so often...
    Auroras Graves: Swiss
    arabella Ella: swiss is not a language ....
    arabella Ella: switzer deutsche?
    Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha
    Auroras Graves: the local idiom :)
    Pema Pera: is what Auroras is refering too
    arabella Ella: ok cool
    Zen Arado: yes a lot of bishops met at the council of nicea and decided what the canonical books were
    arabella Ella: well religions have attempted to harness both power and control even more so in the past
    Zen Arado: they say it was divine inspiration
    Pema Pera: and what is your second language, Auroras?
    arabella Ella: and ppl were not expected to have a mind or thoughts of their own
    Zen Arado: yes
    arabella Ella: french?
    Zen Arado: the bible was in Latin
    Zen Arado: until the Reformation
    Auroras Graves: armenish ? the first language they were written in ?
    Zen Arado: Aramaic
    Auroras Graves: the Jewish Thora ?
    Zen Arado: was what Jesus spoke I think
    Zen Arado: then translated intp Greek
    Zen Arado: might be wrong
    Auroras Graves: the new Testament
    arabella Ella: that is correct i think Zen
    Mickorod Renard: its funny when asking what the holy trinity is
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: difficult to explain
    arabella Ella: but Mick don't forget we use language which is not always suitable to capture certain concepts easily
    Mickorod Renard: I know
    arabella Ella: our language leads us into a number of traps
    arabella Ella: snarpes
    arabella Ella: snares
    Mickorod Renard: snarps,,I read a poem about them
    Auroras Graves: even between british and us english (wont go there now, either)
    Zen Arado: don't blindside us :)
    From here on the conversation took a significant turn . . . :)
    Auroras Graves: like "keep your pecker up" ?
    Pema Pera: like that joke about "celebate" being a mistranslation typo for "celebrate"
    Mickorod Renard: yikes,,,not tonite aurora
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Auroras Graves: the british thinks it means "keep your head up"
    Zen Arado: haha
    arabella Ella: in Canada I once said I had a lift to the airport and the hotel receptionist looked at me as tho i was crazy
    Mickorod Renard: well,,sometimes another head
    Auroras Graves: yiiickes !!! Mick
    arabella Ella: Auroras ... pecker has another (rude) sense in english
    arabella Ella: so careful ... watch your language
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Auroras Graves: oh my... is there anything that does NOT have a second meaning in english `?
    Mickorod Renard: no
    Auroras Graves: so much for translations
    Auroras Graves: the holy book is full with such misinterpretations
    Zen Arado: slipperiness of words
    Mickorod Renard: we all think of rude alternatives
    Auroras Graves: ooh, a nice one about the holy book of islam
    Auroras Graves: they tell them that there are 30 virgins waiting for them on the other side
    Zen Arado: yes heard that
    Auroras Graves: it is widely believed that it should read "30 pieces of white grapes" instead
    Mickorod Renard: I prefer some experience
    Zen Arado: oh
    Zen Arado: slight difference :)
    Auroras Graves: so there he comes, ready for his 30 white skinned lovers
    Auroras Graves: ... and gets a fruit basket
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: hence the expression "basket case"
    arabella Ella: that's men for you Auroras!
    Auroras Graves: well....
    Auroras Graves: a virgin is a virgin :)
    arabella Ella: all waiting for their virgins ... sorry guys here ... there are a few exceptions i know
    Zen Arado: but we all seem to need some kind of belief system to cling to?
    Mickorod Renard: at my age the fruit sounds very tempting
    Auroras Graves: male or female
    Zen Arado: isnt scientism also a fn=undamentalist position?
    Auroras Graves: cognitiv thinking ?
    Auroras Graves: to understand what caused the thunder , if not Thor ?
    Auroras Graves: not to believe the old tales but to seek a new way ?
    Auroras Graves: i would call it curiosity instead
    Zen Arado: we can't be totally open can we?
    Auroras Graves: i can not
    Zen Arado: have to pin things down some way
    Auroras Graves: i can not understand murderer
    Mickorod Renard: I like reading Charles Dickens and shakespear,,but because it is old doesnt mean its no good anylonger
    All this led to talking about rules.
    Zen Arado: a society needs rules
    Zen Arado: agreed judgements of right and wrong
    Zen Arado: or does it?
    Auroras Graves: some are wired into our brain
    Zen Arado: conditioned?
    Auroras Graves: so deeply that we even can see it in mamals
    Zen Arado: genetic
    Mickorod Renard: We have rules in play as being
    Zen Arado: natural love
    Auroras Graves: it was helping the species to evolve
    Zen Arado: we need frameworks
    Auroras Graves: frameworks ? like caring for the elderly ?
    Zen Arado: just a kind of background system of guidelines
    Auroras Graves: act as you like to be treated yourself ?
    arabella Ella: we probably need norms more than rules or frameworks but we also need more tolerance
    Zen Arado: or we would spend all our time making decisions about actions
    Mickorod Renard: well,,Its dificult to find anyone righteous enough to write some rules
    Mickorod Renard: That is why Jesus was chosen
    Auroras Graves: says who :-) ?
    Mickorod Renard: ;-)
    arabella Ella: all religions, societies, groups, committees, write rules
    Zen Arado: yes generally agreed ones
    arabella Ella: i dont think Jesus wrote any rules
    Zen Arado: well he endorsed the commandments
    Pema Pera: he radicalized them
    Mickorod Renard: Well,,he did condone certail rules
    arabella Ella: he lived what christians consider to be an exemplary life
    Pema Pera: not teeth for teeth, but show the other cheek
    Auroras Graves: if he really existed, he gave some guidelines to improve the general behaviour among his followers
    Mickorod Renard: flashing?
    Mickorod Renard: mooning?
    Auroras Graves: but he did take away his followers from their families
    arabella Ella: but ... again altho i am christian ... i cannot understand how Jesus told his disciples to leave everything ... family etc ... and follow him
    Pema Pera: that's the problem: I've learned my bibilical background in Duch :)
    Pema Pera: Dutch
    Pema Pera: don't know what the translation words are, like Auroras
    Auroras Graves: thank you Arabella, i always wondered about that too
    arabella Ella: yes Pema ... turn the other cheek
    Pema Pera: turn!
    arabella Ella: yes Auroras ... I find that a difficult concept to accept
    Auroras Graves: there are 4 of them, aren't there ?
    Pema Pera: okay, thank you :)
    arabella Ella: leaving families ...
    Zen Arado: Christianity was more radical than we realise now
    Mickorod Renard: Well,I had noticed that too,,about splitting up families
    Zen Arado: it was watered down
    arabella Ella: four of what Auroras?
    Auroras Graves: 4 cheeks :)
    Auroras Graves: multitasking here, sorry :)
    arabella Ella: now u are being naughty
    Auroras Graves: i never said this is going to be a nice talk
    Zen Arado: haha
    Mickorod Renard: thats after middle age sag
    Auroras Graves: i better get my hooves ironed for eternal hell now
    Zen Arado: you can puck up your tail in SL :)
    Zen Arado: pick
    Auroras Graves: double meanings everwhere, aint english great :)
    Arabella tried to move back to a more serious slant.
    arabella Ella: religions have one good aspect as they provide people with values
    Auroras Graves: but we learned from the bible in school
    arabella Ella: but they also raise so many questions
    Mickorod Renard: I dont envy the gaurdian tonite,,looks like some vetting of the chat log needed
    Auroras Graves: and it was mostly about death, and sin and killing and ....
    Pema Pera: no vetting here, Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Zen Arado: uncensored?
    Pema Pera: I just turn the other ear
    arabella Ella: nd guilt and conscience Auroras
    arabella Ella: and unfortunately conditioning of minds too
    Mickorod Renard: well,,its strange,,the bad side of the bible is what most people think about
    arabella Ella: and conflict with other religions ... when there could be unity
    arabella Ella: so easily
    Zen Arado: yes there is a lot of good in Christianity too
    Zen Arado: and other religions
    arabella Ella: and in all mainstream religions too Zen
    Mickorod Renard: but,,from an enlightened position you can see the beauty in it
    arabella Ella: yes
    Auroras Graves: but it gets watered down
    Auroras Graves: and they keep fighting about the tiniest things
    Zen Arado: gets legalistic
    Auroras Graves: are holding discussions about how many angels might dance on the pin of a needle
    arabella Ella: because there are humans who are too hungry for power
    Mickorod Renard: that is the route of all evil
    arabella Ella: that was st thomas aquinas Auroras
    Auroras Graves: and who will go to heaven (and the lost books, no woman without a christian husband will make it, btw)
    Mickorod Renard: he was a cool guy
    Auroras Graves: power and today - greed ?
    arabella Ella: yes
    arabella Ella: what about single females Auroras?
    Auroras Graves: as long as they are virgins
    arabella Ella: ouch
    Auroras Graves: but bear with me, i read the book with 10 :)
    Auroras Graves: ouch indeed
    Zen Arado: not many will go then :)
    arabella Ella: there we go with celibacy again
    Auroras Graves: all my friends will be in hell anyway
    Auroras Graves: so what
    arabella Ella: i dont think so Auroras
    arabella Ella: because if you believe in God then God is very merciful
    arabella Ella: and books are written by men not by God
    Auroras Graves: mmmmhhh...
    arabella Ella: and as i said before to be human is to err
    Auroras Graves: but then i can not take the bible for guidance
    Auroras Graves: i have to feel what is divine
    arabella Ella: i personally think that if heaven exists then we will all go to heaven
    Auroras Graves: and believe that there is a god
    Mickorod Renard: that is a good debate
    Mickorod Renard: the bit about the bible and err and man written
    Auroras Graves: but i might also believe that there is the god particle
    Auroras Graves: and i doubt that it has a mind or enjoys a prayer
    Zen Arado: as soon as you define 'God' have you not made him/her/it into an idol?
    Arabella pointed to the more positive sides of a belief in God, to ways of actually working with such a belief.
    arabella Ella: if u believe God exists then God does not need a mind as the concept of God is all knowing
    Mickorod Renard: I think religion of any kind was originaly created for human spirituality
    arabella Ella: no Zen ... why should a concept become an idol?
    Auroras Graves: so, God is only in our brain ?
    Zen Arado: but we ascribe human powers magnified to God
    arabella Ella: but God does not have human powers to believe that is not correct
    Mickorod Renard: its only when you loose the sight of the concept that it becomes a tool against you
    Zen Arado: because God is beyond our undestanding
    Auroras Graves: why do we experience an rapture like feeling if our brain gets stimulated by a magnet ?
    Mickorod Renard: do we?
    arabella Ella: yes God is beyond our understanding
    Auroras Graves: the Godmachine it was called back in the 80ies
    arabella Ella: why does it become a tool against you mick?
    Auroras Graves: a magnetic stimula of the prefrontal cortex in our brains
    arabella Ella: wow cool Auroras i never heard of that before
    Auroras Graves: made the people believe that God is close
    Mickorod Renard: when one alows religion to become a controlling force
    arabella Ella: yes
    Korii Tiger: what if we are God?
    Auroras Graves: well,... we are AVATARS
    arabella Ella: mmmmmmmm
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Zen Arado: yes that sounds Budhist
    Auroras Graves: and that means God on earth
    Zen Arado: everything is God
    Auroras Graves: in Sanskrit
    Auroras Graves: or closely, i am not good in languages
    arabella Ella: sounds like you are very good in languages
    Zen Arado: I think in Islam you are not allowe to speak the name of God
    Zen Arado: or is it udaism?
    arabella Ella: Jehova Zen
    Auroras Graves: not by far as good to talk about religion
    Zen Arado: Judaism
    Auroras Graves: Scientist Dr. Michael Persinger has developed a "God helmet" which he claims can generate altered states of consciousness, including those similar to religious epiphany
    arabella Ella: they call God ... He who is
    Auroras Graves: Wikipedia
    arabella Ella: wow
    And Mick expressed a similar sentiment as Arabella.
    Mickorod Renard: I dont think it matters who or what we believe God is,,as long as we Love what we believe is God
    Auroras Graves: as long as we love our neighbours
    Auroras Graves: not matter how tiresome they are
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Zen Arado: as ourselves
    Mickorod Renard: especially if they are virgins
    Zen Arado: haha
    Auroras Graves: snickers
    Zen Arado: couldn
    Auroras Graves: i will ask Paul if he is a virgin then
    Zen Arado: couldnt cope with 30 though :)
    Mickorod Renard: I thought it was Pauline
    Auroras Graves: i was talking about the neighbour :)
    arabella Ella: (no comment on the virgin issue)
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Auroras Graves: and i must admit
    Mickorod Renard: ?
    Auroras Graves: this was the most relaxed talk about religion i ever witnessed
    arabella Ella: great
    Mickorod Renard: cool
    arabella Ella: no conflict for a change
    Auroras Graves: just like paradies
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I have no hang ups,,I have my personal relationship with what I belive in
    Zen Arado: bring on the virgins :)
    arabella Ella smiles ... SL can be like paradise sometimes
    Auroras Graves: this seems like the best we all can hope for
    Auroras Graves: everyone is happy with her or his beliefes
    Auroras Graves: and that is just the way it should be
    Zen Arado: or lack of them :)
    arabella Ella: (no jet lag, no bad weather, no house problems, no baggage, etc)
    arabella Ella: and some positives too
    Mickorod Renard: Its a shame we are wrecking our lovely planet though
    Zen Arado: yes
    Auroras Graves: another misinterpreting in the bible here
    Auroras Graves: now, in english
    Auroras Graves: darn
    Mickorod Renard: oh yes,,end time
    Auroras Graves: go and make the earth your own ?
    Mickorod Renard: we should welcome the end of the world
    arabella Ella: say it in any language auroras and someone will understand
    Zen Arado: Aurora sends her apologies for not being able to attend
    Auroras Graves: gehet hin und machet Euch die Erde untertan
    Pema Pera: no problem Zen, I took over from Aurora
    arabella Ella: go hinter and take over the earth ... or similar
    Mickorod Renard: I am hoping to miss the end of the earth show
    Auroras Graves: sigh...
    Auroras Graves: maybe the anwer to it all IS 42....
    Mickorod Renard: might be a close call though
    arabella Ella: or 22
    Auroras Graves: oh, that was the end of the universe, sorry Mick
    Mickorod Renard: or........
    Mickorod Renard: 45
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,I will def miss that one
    Auroras Graves: i wont go into 666 now
    arabella Ella: noooooooo please dont
    Auroras Graves: snickers
    It was time for Auroras to leave, and soon we would all follow her example; we had been at the pavillon for an hour and twenty minutes already.
    Auroras Graves: may i say goodbye ?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    arabella Ella: if u r off
    Pema Pera: wiedersehn Auroras
    Pema Pera: mach's gut
    Auroras Graves: Wiedersehen Pema :)
    arabella Ella: Tchuss
    Zen Arado: bhye Auroras
    Pema Pera: tschuess
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Auroras
    Mickorod Renard: bonne nuit
    Zen Arado: au revoir
    Mickorod Renard: ciao
    Auroras Graves: and goodbye to all :) thank You all and bonne nuit, good night Gute Nacht Pfuuest Guet :)
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Mickorod Renard: bye aurora
    arabella Ella: bye
    arabella Ella: i must go too
    arabella Ella: bye everyone
    Mickorod Renard: are u goin Ara?
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ara
    Zen Arado: bye Arabella
    Pema Pera: Bye Arabella
    Mickorod Renard: spose I had best be off too
    Pema Pera watches his watch and concludes he'd better go too
    Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, namasté:)
    Zen Arado: yes me too
    Pema Pera: see you all later!
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,,bye folks
    Zen Arado: bye everyone :)
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