2009.03.21 13:00 - Love God and Love Your Neighbour

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Auroras Graves: what is todays topic ?
Arisia Vita: welcome Ara and Scat
Auroras Graves: Hello Arabella and Scathach
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara, Ari, Auroras
Auroras Graves: welcome :)
Arisia Vita: welcome Mic
Auroras Graves: Hello Mickorod
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
arabella Ella: hiya Mick
Mickorod Renard: hiya Arisa Ara aurora scath
Mickorod Renard: please excuse me I am just eating dinner
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
arabella Ella: bon appetit
Mickorod Renard: mercie
Auroras Graves: Hello again Pema
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
Pema Pera: small world, isn't it, Auroras :)
arabella Ella: hiya Pema
Auroras Graves: definitly :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Pema
Auroras Graves: but i do blame Arisia :)
Pema Pera: Did Ari shrink the world?
Arisia Vita looks down...
Auroras Graves: he seems to know everyone here and especially the places worth visiting
Pema Pera: I'm learning that, yes :)
Arisia Vita: I've been lucky with my friends

Auroras had been at the popular astronomy talk organized by MICA and given by Curious George, a few hours earlier.

Auroras Graves: and curious george said that we shall put our trust in Pema too :)
Pema Pera: hehehe
arabella Ella: I second curious george and Arisia too then
Pema Pera: if you want to know what it feels like to fall into a black hole, yes, then you can put your trust in me
arabella Ella smiles
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: (is what George implied, a few hours ago)
Pema Pera: (at the MICA popular talk)
Auroras Graves: hahahaa !!! well, it would be of much help when we are in there, since your answer would not reach us :)
Auroras Graves: Hello Zen
Arisia Vita: welcome Zen
Pema Pera: you have to fall along with me, Auroras, otherwise it is no fun!
arabella Ella: hiya Zen
Arisia Vita: then I'm going too!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Zen
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Zen
Pema Pera: if the black hole is large enough, we can keep communicating for quite a while
Auroras Graves: your answer would not reach me then either, if i recall correctly :)
Zen Arado: Hello everyone
Pema Pera sees the whole PaB community going down the (cosmic) drain
Auroras Graves: still among the horizon ?
Pema Pera: hi Zen!
Auroras Graves: hahahaaa
Auroras Graves: well, there are worse topics
Pema Pera: sure, white holes!
Zen Arado: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: you can get out but not in!
Pema Pera: time reversed from black holes
Auroras Graves: is there a special astromonical event today ? the tv stations are full with Astro stuff today )
Pema Pera: the whole year is special
Pema Pera: 2009 is the international astronomy year
Auroras Graves: today it seems the shows are clustering up
Mickorod Renard: you could scedule lots of classes at the same time at the event horizon
Pema Pera: http://astronomy2009.us/
Pema Pera: but don't get out of bed on the wrong foot then, Mick
Pema Pera: or the wrong side!
Auroras Graves: ouch......
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Auroras Graves: thanks, but i dont need longer legs....
Pema Pera: :-)
Auroras Graves: what is todays topic, anyway ?
Pema Pera: no topic right now
Pema Pera: most of the time we don't have a topic

I brought up the fascinating discussions we had six hours earlier.

Pema Pera: this morning at 7 am was an exception
Pema Pera: we had a theme of "karma and sin"
Pema Pera: comparison with Buddhism and Christianity
Zen Arado: interesting
Auroras Graves: bad pun - "my karma run over my dogma"
Pema Pera: Geo took the Christian side
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: and although I am not a Buddhist, I took the Buddhist side
Pema Pera: Geo gave a lovely summary of his felt beliefs/inspiration
Zen Arado: can't see what the 'sides would be?
Zen Arado: sin and karma are different things aren't they?
arabella Ella: Geo came across as a very honest person ... very interesting too
arabella Ella: and very patient with all our questions :)
arabella Ella: we could have gone on for hours
Auroras Graves: mmmhhh, will the log be online soon ?
Mickorod Renard: yes,, nice guy
Pema Pera: different yet there are far more parallels than we would normally think, Zen
Zen Arado: yes?
Pema Pera: I think so, Auroras, Adams will put it up

(Pema then quoted from that session.)

Geo Netizen: Fundamental to all Franciscan theology is the idea that the core nature of the divine is love and perfection; God is perfect love. 
Geo Netizen: All other attributes of the divine are root in, colored by and flow from this core nature. 
Geo Netizen: And all love which we experience, including eros, philia and agape, has its origin and source in the divine.
Geo Netizen: With that background:
Geo Netizen: Sin is a free act by an individual away from this love. 
Geo Netizen: I use the word act in a broad sense here which would include thoughts, words and deeds. 
Geo Netizen: We are called to act in ways that move us to embrace this love. 
Geo Netizen: (the opposite :) 
Geo Netizen: Acts have effects and sin creates negative effects that can be experienced by the actor and by others including later generations. 
Geo Netizen: Movement away from love can create currents that sweep others away.
Geo Netizen: People generally find this to be vague and they say “Just tell me what to do”. 
Geo Netizen: That is why rules and commandments are very popular; the ‘thou shall nots’. 
Geo Netizen: The breaking of these rules is a sin, not because a rule is broking, but because the act that breaks the rule is a movement away from love. 
Geo Netizen: The sin lies in the movement away. 
Geo Netizen: One who moves continually towards and embraces this love does not need rules and laws and is free from them.
Geo Netizen: This is, to the surprise of many Christians, a fundamental Pauline idea. :))

Zen Arado: hmmmmm yes I see
Zen Arado: never thought of it that way
Pema Pera: Geo is a gem :-)
Mickorod Renard: not sure what a paul;ine idea is,,but sounds interesting
Arisia Vita: welcome Korii
Korii Tiger: hi
Pema Pera: Saint Paul is generally not know for this kind of speech
Auroras Graves: Welcome Korii
Mickorod Renard: hiya Kori
arabella Ella: hiya Korii
Pema Pera: Pauline = (sayings) by Paul
Pema Pera: hi Korii
Zen Arado: but the christian idea is that we get punishment for transgressing God's laws?
arabella Ella: by St Paul
Korii Tiger: :)
Mickorod Renard: I see
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Korii
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Korii Tiger: Hello every one
Zen Arado: punihed by God
Auroras Graves: well, i am working with various flavours of christians and they usually never give arguments as clear and honest :)
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure that is right Zen
Zen Arado: karma we just reap what we sow ?

Auroras expressed the sentiment many of us had.

Auroras Graves: a great treat to hear it without all the dogmas
Pema Pera: yes
Zen Arado: ok just ythinking about it
arabella Ella nods
Pema Pera: yes, Zen, that is what we often here, but there is room for other interpretations
Zen Arado: sure
Mickorod Renard: There is a certain amount of diferent belief between Christians anyway
Pema Pera: and monks spending hours each day in prayer and meditation are more authentic and honest that priests and mullahs and pundits
Zen Arado: I was an evangelical christian for a long time
Mickorod Renard: yes?
arabella Ella: especially franciscans Pema
Pema Pera: yes
Zen Arado: then turned to philosophy then Buddhism
Auroras Graves: got raised by the teachings of Luther, had a half crazed priest and turned Atheist with 5
Mickorod Renard: I think in the end if you are a good person then that is sufficient,,but working out what good is can be more complicated than some at first think
Zen Arado: we get lost in definitions
Mickorod Renard: yes,,and motives
Auroras Graves: and folks claiming to have the only and last truth
Zen Arado: yes
arabella Ella: if you are christian i think the two most important things are Love God and Love your neighbour
Mickorod Renard: yes
Auroras Graves: and i wont even start with the last news about the Pope
Pema Pera: yes
Zen Arado: yes Jesus said that.....
Mickorod Renard: well,,maybe he is best left out
Mickorod Renard: the pope
Zen Arado: does Buddhism claim to have the only and last truth?
Pema Pera: there are so many different ways of looking at the same reality -- and the difference is more between authentic or not than it is between what angle you choose
arabella Ella nods
Pema Pera: The way I expressed it recently in an email exchange was as follows:
Pema Pera: The point is to see. That is enough. When you see a tree, you don't have to become a leafist or a rootist or a dewdropist or a vineist or a moistureist or a blossomist or a shadeist. You just see the tree, hug it, lean against it, swing from it, smell it, feel its presence, whatever you like, and celebrate being part of the same realm as that tree, given together, appearing together. That's enough.
Zen Arado: yes Pema
arabella Ella smiles at that idea
Mickorod Renard: yea
Zen Arado: so why do we talk so much :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: to share, Zen
Auroras Graves: because we want others to believe as we do
Zen Arado: we still need some guidance
Auroras Graves: so we dont feel completly nuts :)

Arabella summed it up:

arabella Ella: we as humans are social beings and we have an innate need to share our experiences
Auroras Graves: and it strenghens the group, easier to see who is friend or fiend
Zen Arado: yes
arabella Ella: but sharing experiences does not imply either conflict or power
Zen Arado: reassurance
arabella Ella: i prefer to enjoy diversity of opinion
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Mickorod Renard: me too Ara
Scathach Rhiadra: if we only gor confirmation of our own beleifs we would never learn anything
arabella Ella: exactly Scath
Mickorod Renard: Its a shame we cannot (human race) be more inquisitive of instead of rejectful of diferent beliefs
arabella Ella: we could learn and make an effort to be more inquisitive Mick
Pema Pera: yes, Play as Being is about exploring, by dropping beliefs, or better, wearing them lightly, with a willingness to consider alternatives
Auroras Graves: to accept another opinion means we have to question ourselves
arabella Ella: nurture the curious child within each and every one of us
Pema Pera: yes
Zen Arado: we cling to our beliefs so much
Zen Arado: freeze them
Mickorod Renard: yes,,well I do my best,,but am suprised at the horror that brings when talking to some folk
arabella Ella: we also need to be tolerant and open to the opinion of others which clashes with ours
Mickorod Renard: about looking at other stuff
Mickorod Renard: much misconception about
arabella Ella: curiousity, tolerance, respect
Auroras Graves: how shall we encounter people who try to force their opinion on us ?
Pema Pera: gently :)
Pema Pera: yet firmly
arabella Ella: i personally feel that forcing one's opinion on others should be avoided at all costs
Mickorod Renard: ;-)

Zen came up with a few rather extreme missionary examples.

Zen Arado: like Mormons, Jehovahs witnesses
Auroras Graves: oh, that is easy
arabella Ella: oh yea jehova's woke me up with the doorbell this saturday morning
Zen Arado: do you stay open to their teachings?
arabella Ella: :)
Auroras Graves: just put up an "i am a blood donator" at your door :)
arabella Ella: LOL
Zen Arado: well I really went into Mormon teachings
arabella Ella: it is difficult to discuss matters openly with ppl who are closed minded
Zen Arado: their ;ifestyle is impressive
Pema Pera: actually, it can be interesting to talk with Mormons and Jehovah witnesses -- they really are sincere in their own way, and they really are dedicated; pity they aim it in the way they do, but if you can connect with their sincerity, both you and them can learn, as I have experienced
Mickorod Renard: I like reading their lil booklets
Zen Arado: they have great community spirit
Pema Pera: the trick is to move from their "facts" to their "feelings" but it is possible
arabella Ella: but Pema i don't like they way they try to impose their ideas on others
arabella Ella: they are not open to discuss matters
Zen Arado: but that stems from their beliefs
Mickorod Renard: they have a strong belief
arabella Ella: or dogma
arabella Ella: categorical
Zen Arado: evangelicals believe the rest of us sre doomed sinners who need to be rescued
arabella Ella: well if we are so are they
Auroras Graves: it seems to my they target those who are in a difficult time of life
Zen Arado: they feel compassion for us
Zen Arado: ah yes
Auroras Graves: they come to friends that just got divorced
Pema Pera: I have the advantage of knowing the bible better than most of them do, with my Dutch Reformed upbringing, so I first counter their arguments, then they are shocked, and that then gives me an opening to talk about their actual experience, which often is quite impressive
arabella Ella: after all to be human is to err
Mickorod Renard: evangelists do believe they are sinners
Zen Arado: yes saved by the grace of God
Mickorod Renard: but they believe in their repentance
Mickorod Renard: and that Jesus has paid for our sins
Auroras Graves: i once read some of the "lost books" of the Bible, the ones that did not make it into the official version, mostly about the 30 years of Jesus
arabella Ella: yes?
Mickorod Renard: thats cool
Zen Arado: the problem with believing in a book like the bibleis that it gets out of date
arabella Ella: how did u get to them Aroroas?
Auroras Graves: it seems the more books that are out there, the more they contradict each other
Auroras Graves: easy, they are in the librabry
arabella Ella: oh
Auroras Graves: let me see what they are called in english
arabella Ella: you would not find them in libraries where i am
Auroras Graves: kryptic books ?
Auroras Graves: darn english
Zen Arado: yes - that 'word of God' idea is what most put me off christianity
arabella Ella: not Koptic?
Zen Arado: Apocrypha
Scathach Rhiadra: Gnostic, maybe:)
Auroras Graves: thanks !!! Zen got it
Mickorod Renard: Well, I think its the message that you take from the writings that is important,,
Auroras Graves: but which translation do you use ?
arabella Ella: but Mick there are often many interpretations even amonst christians
Mickorod Renard: you mean they wernt written in English?
arabella Ella: no
Zen Arado: no I think that is the few extra onee the catholics use on second thoughts
Auroras Graves: they even removed the rule "Thou shall not make pictures of the things in heaven or Earth"
Mickorod Renard: lol,,all the bibles I have read are in english

A good opportunity to talk about languages in general.

Auroras Graves: english is my third language
arabella Ella: what is your first language Auroras?
Auroras Graves: the books got translated so often...
Auroras Graves: Swiss
arabella Ella: swiss is not a language ....
arabella Ella: switzer deutsche?
Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha
Auroras Graves: the local idiom :)
Pema Pera: is what Auroras is refering too
arabella Ella: ok cool
Zen Arado: yes a lot of bishops met at the council of nicea and decided what the canonical books were
arabella Ella: well religions have attempted to harness both power and control even more so in the past
Zen Arado: they say it was divine inspiration
Pema Pera: and what is your second language, Auroras?
arabella Ella: and ppl were not expected to have a mind or thoughts of their own
Zen Arado: yes
arabella Ella: french?
Zen Arado: the bible was in Latin
Zen Arado: until the Reformation
Auroras Graves: armenish ? the first language they were written in ?
Zen Arado: Aramaic
Auroras Graves: the Jewish Thora ?
Zen Arado: was what Jesus spoke I think
Zen Arado: then translated intp Greek
Zen Arado: might be wrong
Auroras Graves: the new Testament
arabella Ella: that is correct i think Zen
Mickorod Renard: its funny when asking what the holy trinity is
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: difficult to explain
arabella Ella: but Mick don't forget we use language which is not always suitable to capture certain concepts easily
Mickorod Renard: I know
arabella Ella: our language leads us into a number of traps
arabella Ella: snarpes
arabella Ella: snares
Mickorod Renard: snarps,,I read a poem about them
Auroras Graves: even between british and us english (wont go there now, either)
Zen Arado: don't blindside us :)

From here on the conversation took a significant turn . . . :)

Auroras Graves: like "keep your pecker up" ?
Pema Pera: like that joke about "celebate" being a mistranslation typo for "celebrate"
Mickorod Renard: yikes,,,not tonite aurora
arabella Ella: LOL
Auroras Graves: the british thinks it means "keep your head up"
Zen Arado: haha
arabella Ella: in Canada I once said I had a lift to the airport and the hotel receptionist looked at me as tho i was crazy
Mickorod Renard: well,,sometimes another head
Auroras Graves: yiiickes !!! Mick
arabella Ella: Auroras ... pecker has another (rude) sense in english
arabella Ella: so careful ... watch your language
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Auroras Graves: oh my... is there anything that does NOT have a second meaning in english `?
Mickorod Renard: no
Auroras Graves: so much for translations
Auroras Graves: the holy book is full with such misinterpretations
Zen Arado: slipperiness of words
Mickorod Renard: we all think of rude alternatives
Auroras Graves: ooh, a nice one about the holy book of islam
Auroras Graves: they tell them that there are 30 virgins waiting for them on the other side
Zen Arado: yes heard that
Auroras Graves: it is widely believed that it should read "30 pieces of white grapes" instead
Mickorod Renard: I prefer some experience
Zen Arado: oh
Zen Arado: slight difference :)
Auroras Graves: so there he comes, ready for his 30 white skinned lovers
Auroras Graves: ... and gets a fruit basket
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: hence the expression "basket case"
arabella Ella: that's men for you Auroras!
Auroras Graves: well....
Auroras Graves: a virgin is a virgin :)
arabella Ella: all waiting for their virgins ... sorry guys here ... there are a few exceptions i know
Zen Arado: but we all seem to need some kind of belief system to cling to?
Mickorod Renard: at my age the fruit sounds very tempting
Auroras Graves: male or female
Zen Arado: isnt scientism also a fn=undamentalist position?
Auroras Graves: cognitiv thinking ?
Auroras Graves: to understand what caused the thunder , if not Thor ?
Auroras Graves: not to believe the old tales but to seek a new way ?
Auroras Graves: i would call it curiosity instead
Zen Arado: we can't be totally open can we?
Auroras Graves: i can not
Zen Arado: have to pin things down some way
Auroras Graves: i can not understand murderer
Mickorod Renard: I like reading Charles Dickens and shakespear,,but because it is old doesnt mean its no good anylonger

All this led to talking about rules.

Zen Arado: a society needs rules
Zen Arado: agreed judgements of right and wrong
Zen Arado: or does it?
Auroras Graves: some are wired into our brain
Zen Arado: conditioned?
Auroras Graves: so deeply that we even can see it in mamals
Zen Arado: genetic
Mickorod Renard: We have rules in play as being
Zen Arado: natural love
Auroras Graves: it was helping the species to evolve
Zen Arado: we need frameworks
Auroras Graves: frameworks ? like caring for the elderly ?
Zen Arado: just a kind of background system of guidelines
Auroras Graves: act as you like to be treated yourself ?
arabella Ella: we probably need norms more than rules or frameworks but we also need more tolerance
Zen Arado: or we would spend all our time making decisions about actions
Mickorod Renard: well,,Its dificult to find anyone righteous enough to write some rules
Mickorod Renard: That is why Jesus was chosen
Auroras Graves: says who :-) ?
Mickorod Renard: ;-)
arabella Ella: all religions, societies, groups, committees, write rules
Zen Arado: yes generally agreed ones
arabella Ella: i dont think Jesus wrote any rules
Zen Arado: well he endorsed the commandments
Pema Pera: he radicalized them
Mickorod Renard: Well,,he did condone certail rules
arabella Ella: he lived what christians consider to be an exemplary life
Pema Pera: not teeth for teeth, but show the other cheek
Auroras Graves: if he really existed, he gave some guidelines to improve the general behaviour among his followers
Mickorod Renard: flashing?
Mickorod Renard: mooning?
Auroras Graves: but he did take away his followers from their families
arabella Ella: but ... again altho i am christian ... i cannot understand how Jesus told his disciples to leave everything ... family etc ... and follow him
Pema Pera: that's the problem: I've learned my bibilical background in Duch :)
Pema Pera: Dutch
Pema Pera: don't know what the translation words are, like Auroras
Auroras Graves: thank you Arabella, i always wondered about that too
arabella Ella: yes Pema ... turn the other cheek
Pema Pera: turn!
arabella Ella: yes Auroras ... I find that a difficult concept to accept
Auroras Graves: there are 4 of them, aren't there ?
Pema Pera: okay, thank you :)
arabella Ella: leaving families ...
Zen Arado: Christianity was more radical than we realise now
Mickorod Renard: Well,I had noticed that too,,about splitting up families
Zen Arado: it was watered down
arabella Ella: four of what Auroras?
Auroras Graves: 4 cheeks :)
Auroras Graves: multitasking here, sorry :)
arabella Ella: now u are being naughty
Auroras Graves: i never said this is going to be a nice talk
Zen Arado: haha
Mickorod Renard: thats after middle age sag
Auroras Graves: i better get my hooves ironed for eternal hell now
Zen Arado: you can puck up your tail in SL :)
Zen Arado: pick
Auroras Graves: double meanings everwhere, aint english great :)

Arabella tried to move back to a more serious slant.

arabella Ella: religions have one good aspect as they provide people with values
Auroras Graves: but we learned from the bible in school
arabella Ella: but they also raise so many questions
Mickorod Renard: I dont envy the gaurdian tonite,,looks like some vetting of the chat log needed
Auroras Graves: and it was mostly about death, and sin and killing and ....
Pema Pera: no vetting here, Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Zen Arado: uncensored?
Pema Pera: I just turn the other ear
arabella Ella: nd guilt and conscience Auroras
arabella Ella: and unfortunately conditioning of minds too
Mickorod Renard: well,,its strange,,the bad side of the bible is what most people think about
arabella Ella: and conflict with other religions ... when there could be unity
arabella Ella: so easily
Zen Arado: yes there is a lot of good in Christianity too
Zen Arado: and other religions
arabella Ella: and in all mainstream religions too Zen
Mickorod Renard: but,,from an enlightened position you can see the beauty in it
arabella Ella: yes
Auroras Graves: but it gets watered down
Auroras Graves: and they keep fighting about the tiniest things
Zen Arado: gets legalistic
Auroras Graves: are holding discussions about how many angels might dance on the pin of a needle
arabella Ella: because there are humans who are too hungry for power
Mickorod Renard: that is the route of all evil
arabella Ella: that was st thomas aquinas Auroras
Auroras Graves: and who will go to heaven (and the lost books, no woman without a christian husband will make it, btw)
Mickorod Renard: he was a cool guy
Auroras Graves: power and today - greed ?
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: what about single females Auroras?
Auroras Graves: as long as they are virgins
arabella Ella: ouch
Auroras Graves: but bear with me, i read the book with 10 :)
Auroras Graves: ouch indeed
Zen Arado: not many will go then :)
arabella Ella: there we go with celibacy again
Auroras Graves: all my friends will be in hell anyway
Auroras Graves: so what
arabella Ella: i dont think so Auroras
arabella Ella: because if you believe in God then God is very merciful
arabella Ella: and books are written by men not by God
Auroras Graves: mmmmhhh...
arabella Ella: and as i said before to be human is to err
Auroras Graves: but then i can not take the bible for guidance
Auroras Graves: i have to feel what is divine
arabella Ella: i personally think that if heaven exists then we will all go to heaven
Auroras Graves: and believe that there is a god
Mickorod Renard: that is a good debate
Mickorod Renard: the bit about the bible and err and man written
Auroras Graves: but i might also believe that there is the god particle
Auroras Graves: and i doubt that it has a mind or enjoys a prayer
Zen Arado: as soon as you define 'God' have you not made him/her/it into an idol?

Arabella pointed to the more positive sides of a belief in God, to ways of actually working with such a belief.

arabella Ella: if u believe God exists then God does not need a mind as the concept of God is all knowing
Mickorod Renard: I think religion of any kind was originaly created for human spirituality
arabella Ella: no Zen ... why should a concept become an idol?
Auroras Graves: so, God is only in our brain ?
Zen Arado: but we ascribe human powers magnified to God
arabella Ella: but God does not have human powers to believe that is not correct
Mickorod Renard: its only when you loose the sight of the concept that it becomes a tool against you
Zen Arado: because God is beyond our undestanding
Auroras Graves: why do we experience an rapture like feeling if our brain gets stimulated by a magnet ?
Mickorod Renard: do we?
arabella Ella: yes God is beyond our understanding
Auroras Graves: the Godmachine it was called back in the 80ies
arabella Ella: why does it become a tool against you mick?
Auroras Graves: a magnetic stimula of the prefrontal cortex in our brains
arabella Ella: wow cool Auroras i never heard of that before
Auroras Graves: made the people believe that God is close
Mickorod Renard: when one alows religion to become a controlling force
arabella Ella: yes
Korii Tiger: what if we are God?
Auroras Graves: well,... we are AVATARS
arabella Ella: mmmmmmmm
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zen Arado: yes that sounds Budhist
Auroras Graves: and that means God on earth
Zen Arado: everything is God
Auroras Graves: in Sanskrit
Auroras Graves: or closely, i am not good in languages
arabella Ella: sounds like you are very good in languages
Zen Arado: I think in Islam you are not allowe to speak the name of God
Zen Arado: or is it udaism?
arabella Ella: Jehova Zen
Auroras Graves: not by far as good to talk about religion
Zen Arado: Judaism
Auroras Graves: Scientist Dr. Michael Persinger has developed a "God helmet" which he claims can generate altered states of consciousness, including those similar to religious epiphany
arabella Ella: they call God ... He who is
Auroras Graves: Wikipedia
arabella Ella: wow

And Mick expressed a similar sentiment as Arabella.

Mickorod Renard: I dont think it matters who or what we believe God is,,as long as we Love what we believe is God
Auroras Graves: as long as we love our neighbours
Auroras Graves: not matter how tiresome they are
Mickorod Renard: yes
Zen Arado: as ourselves
Mickorod Renard: especially if they are virgins
Zen Arado: haha
Auroras Graves: snickers
Zen Arado: couldn
Auroras Graves: i will ask Paul if he is a virgin then
Zen Arado: couldnt cope with 30 though :)
Mickorod Renard: I thought it was Pauline
Auroras Graves: i was talking about the neighbour :)
arabella Ella: (no comment on the virgin issue)
Mickorod Renard: ok
Auroras Graves: and i must admit
Mickorod Renard: ?
Auroras Graves: this was the most relaxed talk about religion i ever witnessed
arabella Ella: great
Mickorod Renard: cool
arabella Ella: no conflict for a change
Auroras Graves: just like paradies
Mickorod Renard: well,,I have no hang ups,,I have my personal relationship with what I belive in
Zen Arado: bring on the virgins :)
arabella Ella smiles ... SL can be like paradise sometimes
Auroras Graves: this seems like the best we all can hope for
Auroras Graves: everyone is happy with her or his beliefes
Auroras Graves: and that is just the way it should be
Zen Arado: or lack of them :)
arabella Ella: (no jet lag, no bad weather, no house problems, no baggage, etc)
arabella Ella: and some positives too
Mickorod Renard: Its a shame we are wrecking our lovely planet though
Zen Arado: yes
Auroras Graves: another misinterpreting in the bible here
Auroras Graves: now, in english
Auroras Graves: darn
Mickorod Renard: oh yes,,end time
Auroras Graves: go and make the earth your own ?
Mickorod Renard: we should welcome the end of the world
arabella Ella: say it in any language auroras and someone will understand
Zen Arado: Aurora sends her apologies for not being able to attend
Auroras Graves: gehet hin und machet Euch die Erde untertan
Pema Pera: no problem Zen, I took over from Aurora
arabella Ella: go hinter and take over the earth ... or similar
Mickorod Renard: I am hoping to miss the end of the earth show
Auroras Graves: sigh...
Auroras Graves: maybe the anwer to it all IS 42....
Mickorod Renard: might be a close call though
arabella Ella: or 22
Auroras Graves: oh, that was the end of the universe, sorry Mick
Mickorod Renard: or........
Mickorod Renard: 45
Mickorod Renard: lol,,I will def miss that one
Auroras Graves: i wont go into 666 now
arabella Ella: noooooooo please dont
Auroras Graves: snickers

It was time for Auroras to leave, and soon we would all follow her example; we had been at the pavillon for an hour and twenty minutes already.

Auroras Graves: may i say goodbye ?
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: if u r off
Pema Pera: wiedersehn Auroras
Pema Pera: mach's gut
Auroras Graves: Wiedersehen Pema :)
arabella Ella: Tchuss
Zen Arado: bhye Auroras
Pema Pera: tschuess
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Auroras
Mickorod Renard: bonne nuit
Zen Arado: au revoir
Mickorod Renard: ciao
Auroras Graves: and goodbye to all :) thank You all and bonne nuit, good night Gute Nacht Pfuuest Guet :)
Mickorod Renard: grin
Mickorod Renard: bye aurora
arabella Ella: bye
arabella Ella: i must go too
arabella Ella: bye everyone
Mickorod Renard: are u goin Ara?
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ara
Zen Arado: bye Arabella
Pema Pera: Bye Arabella
Mickorod Renard: spose I had best be off too
Pema Pera watches his watch and concludes he'd better go too
Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, namasté:)
Zen Arado: yes me too
Pema Pera: see you all later!
Mickorod Renard: ok,,,bye folks
Zen Arado: bye everyone :)