2009.05.01 13:00 - Wanna Breathe?

The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill Laville.

Solobill Laville: Hello, Vendy, Rish :)
Rish Bleriot: hi Solo
Wol Euler: hello solo, Rish, vendy
Solobill Laville: Heya, Wol
Rish Bleriot: Hi Wol
Solobill Laville meows at Wol :)
Vendy Walpole: Hello Solo, was afk
Solobill Laville: cyber-cat?
Vendy Walpole: and Wol too :)
Wol Euler: yep :)
Wol Euler: a Friday night cheerfulness :)
Solobill Laville: hehe, yay!
Solobill Laville: oh, nice, the url is right there now...
Wol Euler: yep, I changed that for people who log off before the session ends.
Wol Euler: no excuse for not getting it!
Solobill Laville looks around innocently
Solobill Laville: uh, speaking of which...
Solobill Laville looks guilty
Solobill Laville: I am a week behind in posting
Solobill Laville: gads
Wol Euler: hheheheh
Wol Euler: I just got my scribe piece done before the next one's sessions began
Solobill Laville: Well done
Wol Euler: it's a struggle and I feel that I am doing a poor job of it
Solobill Laville: Vendy I think I may have seen you before...here or at Kira...nice to see you again
Vendy Walpole: yes, thank you
Solobill Laville: And nice to meet you Rish
Solobill Laville: Have you been to PaB before?
Rish Bleriot: nope
Solobill Laville: OK
Solobill Laville: Basically we are a group exploring 'reality' or 'Being'
Solobill Laville: through mini-meditations 'playing as Being', hence the name ;)
Rish Bleriot: :)
Solobill Laville: then we just discuss it, and whatever else may come along
Rish Bleriot: k
Solobill Laville: One model is to stop every 15 minutes for 9 seconds, and just "Be"
Rish Bleriot: arent we just "being" rt now ?
Solobill Laville: Stop, drop, and see
Wol Euler: which is referred to as a "1% time tax"
Solobill Laville: yes, we are, but the trick is just realize it
Solobill Laville: not so much of a 'just'
Solobill Laville: :)
Rish Bleriot: k
Rish Bleriot: hope u dont mind the shorthand and the lack of apostrophes ?
Wol Euler: we are often "being" many things though: harassed, distracted, annoyed, certain of what somebody meant by that remark ...
Rish Bleriot: its faster ...
Solobill Laville: np
Wol Euler: hello fefonz
Solobill Laville: Hey, Fef :)
Vendy Walpole: hello
Fefonz Quan: Hey everybody :)
Wol Euler: those things we are "being" can get in the way of appreciating and understanding what is going on around us
Wol Euler: the idea of "dropping" is to try to see what is really around us, rather than what we think it means
Rish Bleriot: hm
Vendy Walpole: dropping= awaraness?
Wol Euler: droppping makes space for awareness
Rish Bleriot: dropping = loosing ur paradigms
Solobill Laville: yes
Solobill Laville: letting go of your distractions, your comparisons, your mental compartmentalizations
Solobill Laville: just trying to "Be"
Vendy Walpole: leaving the consiousness
Rish Bleriot: no ... u will be ver conscious ... of urself ...sans distractions :)
Solobill Laville: perhaps, Vendy, but that is a tricky word, with quite a few meanings
Solobill Laville: Hi Ara
Wol Euler: hllo ara
Vendy Walpole: to me , its mind activity
Vendy Walpole: hi
Fefonz Quan: Hi Ara.
Solobill Laville: There is a clock set here at every 15 minutes (3 minutes from now)
Rish Bleriot: hi there
Fefonz Quan: (Solo, i think this is the longest english word i saw in a long time)
Solobill Laville: we can all try it if you'd like, and share our experiences
Solobill Laville: hehe...sorry Fef...:)
Fefonz Quan: np, it was fun :)
Solobill Laville: So, if we're game, at :15 we can just try to stop, drop, and see
Solobill Laville: it is for 90 seconds
Wol Euler grins
Solobill Laville: try not to think of "what" you will share...just 'be'
Solobill Laville: concentrating on breathing can really help....even counting your breaths
Rish Bleriot: yes
Wol Euler: yes, Stim's exercise.
arabella Ella nods
Rish Bleriot: or being dead tired :)
Wol Euler: hello mick
Solobill Laville: HI mick :)
arabella Ella: Hiya Micko
Solobill Laville: Anything to share in the 90 secs? How did dropping go?
Rish Bleriot: do u think 90 secs is enuff Solo ?
Mickorod Renard: HI
Vendy Walpole: not so good as it could be
arabella Ella: I find it very difficult to be honest
Solobill Laville: Depends, Rish
Wol Euler: it'S an experiment, Rish, we do that for a few weeks now
Wol Euler: it is perhaps either too long or too short
Fefonz Quan: i found it nice. could hear the 'buzz of life' zooming silently
Wol Euler: hello sphia
sophia Placebo: greeting everyone
Wol Euler: *sophia
Vendy Walpole: hi
arabella Ella: Hiya sophia
Solobill Laville: In shorter timeframes the idea may be to make up for it in quantity
Mickorod Renard: Hi sophia
Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia, Mick
Rish Bleriot: practice makes a man perfect ... but ... i still think 90 secs is a bit too little to "drop" it completely ...
Solobill Laville: Hiya, Sophia :)
arabella Ella: What I find difficult is to suddenly switch ... I think I need some lead up time and guidance :)
Rish Bleriot: another lement we cld add is ...
Rish Bleriot: to split the mind in two ... one part watching the other ...so that it doesnt wander
Fefonz Quan: there will be another one in 15 min Rish to work on it :)
Vendy Walpole: :)
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone,,Fef Vend Solo wol Rish Ara
arabella Ella: and another, and another
Rish Bleriot: hi
Vendy Walpole: patience Rish
Vendy Walpole: grins
Rish Bleriot: two is the minimum Ara ... to watch
Solobill Laville: Patience is a virtue :)
Vendy Walpole: vary hard to develop to me
Vendy Walpole: I admit
Solobill Laville nods
arabella Ella: could you perhaps help us Solo
Mickorod Renard: being late i am not sure what i am doing
Solobill Laville: baby steps are a great way to get going :)
arabella Ella: with a lead up to help us to start to empty our minds before the 15 min bell pls?
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: Well, the mind, as we all know is an amazingly active thing
Fefonz Quan: why empty ara?
sophia Placebo: i dont think i can do that
arabella Ella: if not empty ... to help us to use the 90 sec as best we can
Fefonz Quan: do what ara?
Solobill Laville: So, at first, there are some ways we can calm it
Solobill Laville: Like rubbing a dog's belly :)
Fefonz Quan: (Sophia that was)
arabella Ella: as I said i find it difficult to suddenly switch ... one moment active mind ... the next the 90 sec silence
Mickorod Renard: just calling my dog
arabella Ella: i am sure it needs discipline
Solobill Laville: The breath is a wondrous bridge
sophia Placebo: empty my mind fef , that causes headach due to internal pressure
Solobill Laville: ha
Wol Euler: :)
sophia Placebo: external*
Fefonz Quan: so why should you empty it?
arabella Ella: what should we do then?
Mickorod Renard: bit like the trash bin i guess
Vendy Walpole: I used to to it when I was a student ...remeber, and was very good in that, just swithced off from boring teaching
Vendy Walpole: it could help me now :)
Solobill Laville: :)
Vendy Walpole: still can recall it
sophia Placebo: i was comminting on arabella , but serously i tried it befor and i couldnt
Rish Bleriot: my mind was always empty when i was a student ... except when those girls walked into class ....
arabella Ella: perhaps we could listen to the experience of those of you who were successful in the first 90 sec?
arabella Ella: pls?
Vendy Walpole: blinks
Solobill Laville: There are different methods, watching and/or counting the breath may be the most basic and organic
Fefonz Quan: i don't think Solo (or others) were aiming at empty the mind, maybe because it is not working ;-)
arabella Ella: then what did u do and how does it work pls?
Solobill Laville: Well, that is what I try to do, or at the least not 'force' anything
Rish Bleriot: solo ... we ought to watch our minds when we concentrate on breathing .... and not allow any thoughts in
Mickorod Renard: then u make the dog roll over
Solobill Laville: not really, Rish, I think that is to Fef's point
Solobill Laville: There is nothing wrong with thoughts, don't need to fight them
Solobill Laville: But we can sidetrack them a bit, by 'watching our breath'
Rish Bleriot: then how will we just "be" ? if we still have thoughts ...
Solobill Laville: well, again, baby steps
Rish Bleriot: or did u mean ... let thoughts run randomly ?
Rish Bleriot: without directing them ?
Fefonz Quan: we will stil also see images with are eyes Rish, do they interupt our Being?
Wol Euler: yes, let them run in and straight out again
Solobill Laville: There is no 'switch' to just turn them off
arabella Ella: Solo and Fef ... could you desc ribe your own experience?
Solobill Laville: Sure
arabella Ella: ty
Solobill Laville: #1 sit up straight
Solobill Laville: #2 relax my shoulders
Mickorod Renard: I think the problem is the rush hour motorway of thoughts ,,and we need to get onto a nice quiet country road of thoughts
Solobill Laville: #3 take a deep breath, see it come in throuh my nose and into my lungs
arabella Ella listens
Solobill Laville: #4 let it out slowly and see it pass up my lungs and out my nose
arabella Ella sits up straight and relaxes her shoulders ... mmm
Solobill Laville: #5 count (1, 2, etc)
Solobill Laville: that is the very basic way
sophia Placebo: thats work already, thinks i should close my eyes and sl too :)
arabella Ella: thanks!
Rish Bleriot: thats ur basic buddhist form of meditation .... first step ...
Solobill Laville: right
Solobill Laville: and others
Rish Bleriot: then imagery ...
Solobill Laville: breath is a powerful bridge
Fefonz Quan: i wouldn't rank them Rish
Solobill Laville: no imagery for me :)
arabella Ella: should we also remove any RL disrtractions?
Rish Bleriot: but how does it help us Solo ?
Vendy Walpole: mediatation can be done in any way any time
Fefonz Quan nods to vendy
Vendy Walpole: not only in the crossed legs posture
Solobill Laville: right
Wol Euler: I find it calming and centring, it helps me deal with stress
Solobill Laville: helps in many ways...
Solobill Laville: those are three :)
Fefonz Quan: yet is is easier to some starting in a quiet place with less interupptions vendy
sophia Placebo: works better when my eys are open
Wol Euler grins.
Solobill Laville: also concentration
Wol Euler: hello gen
Solobill Laville: yes, eyes open is pretty important
Solobill Laville: Yo, Gen :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
Vendy Walpole: helo
arabella Ella: Hiya Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
Solobill Laville: (we can try again)
Fefonz Quan: i like the eyes closed too. easeier to really put the volume of things down
sophia Placebo: amazing :) ty solobill
Solobill Laville: Ara, this is part of my practice: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Guardians%...B_-_10_Breaths
Rish Bleriot: what happened sophia ??
Solobill Laville: yes, please, sophia
arabella Ella: thanks Solo!
sophia Placebo: my mind was almost empty purposly
Solobill Laville: What were you doing?
Solobill Laville: (watching your breath, counting, etc, ?)
sophia Placebo: automaticaly siquating and putting my too palms togather infront of me and gazing to thekeybaord
genesis Zhangsun: breath counting is very useful :)
genesis Zhangsun: I like this summary
genesis Zhangsun: ty
Wol Euler: very good, thank you.
sophia Placebo: though keeping the brathes at he same pace require some efforts
Solobill Laville: some folks say to not control it, just watch, some to slow it down....
Wol Euler: I don't try to control my breathing, just watch and count
Solobill Laville: yes
Solobill Laville: even Zen schools differ in that :)
Wol Euler: :)
Solobill Laville: and on the type of meditiation, of course
Fefonz Quan: yes, i know the no-control approach
Solobill Laville: I've done both
arabella Ella: it certainly seems to work and make one more relaxed altho i think as a beginner some of us may need a bit more time
Fefonz Quan: then non-controlled they are slowing down :)
sophia Placebo: yep solo , i guess naturally it is not controlled and has a ruthm but when are aware of it , your awarness distube that
Wol Euler: seems to me to fit better with the "dropping" approach, let your breathing be what it is
Fefonz Quan nods to Wol
Mickorod Renard: I notice my heart beat slowing more than anything
Solobill Laville: Hi, QT :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Qt
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Qt
Fefonz Quan: hi qt
sophia Placebo: hi qt
Wol Euler: buona sera QT
Qt Core: hi all
arabella Ella: ciao Qt
Vendy Walpole: hi
Solobill Laville: Vendy, what are your thoughts about that 90 last seconds?
Vendy Walpole: I notced that I did not want to leave my thoughts
Vendy Walpole: for unknown reason
Vendy Walpole: there was a resistance in me
Fefonz Quan: another approac i know says that 'when you see that your mind gone to thoughts, g-e-n-t-l-y return your awareness to the breathing
Fefonz Quan: (sorry, for jumping in, plese ignore)
Solobill Laville: Ha! no way! Share Fef, that is the point!
Fefonz Quan: yep, just didn't see durig writing that someone is talkng
Solobill Laville: ah, ok
Solobill Laville: Sometimes we think we are our thoughts
Vendy Walpole: or think they are very imprtant and can't be postoponed :)
Vendy Walpole: postponed*
Vendy Walpole: chuckles
Vendy Walpole: just caught in their grid
Solobill Laville: yes, another trick I've used is letting thoughts float away like ballons
Solobill Laville: *balloons
sophia Placebo: baloons!
Solobill Laville: They arise, you acknowledge it, they let it float away
Wol Euler nods
Solobill Laville: *then
Fefonz Quan: one favorite metaphor for me is 'let them walk around like e thief in an empty house'
Solobill Laville: hehe
Wol Euler: trying to push them down only makes htem more present, in my experience
genesis Zhangsun: shall we try your breathing technique in the next 90 second period?
Solobill Laville: yes Wol
Fefonz Quan: i agree, that's why i like the 'gently' approach
Solobill Laville: and sure Gen!
Wol Euler: yes, good idea Gen
sophia Placebo: switching tv channels would work too solo right?
Solobill Laville: maybe, you tell me :)
Fefonz Quan: selling your TV would work great if you ask me :)
genesis Zhangsun: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Guardians%...B_-_10_Breaths
Wol Euler smiles. Was that really 90 seconds? seemed much shorter
genesis Zhangsun: I felt that too Wol
Solobill Laville: Anything to share? Yes, Wol, isn't that an amazing side effect?
Solobill Laville: That was 9 breaths for me :)
genesis Zhangsun: me too
Vendy Walpole: that was becoming aware of much larger space than my room where I am now
Fefonz Quan: can you say more Vendy?
Vendy Walpole: I had a feeling I am distancing from my body ...sounds funnt perhaps
Vendy Walpole: funny
Vendy Walpole: and watching wider space
Vendy Walpole: and sounds
Solobill Laville: Awesome, Vendy :)
Fefonz Quan: well, amazing, and after 3x90 secs :)
Vendy Walpole: happens sometimes
Vendy Walpole: when I want it
Vendy Walpole: :)
Wol Euler: my share of the world seems larger somehow :)
Wol Euler: I feel taller and lighter and expanded.
Solobill Laville: nice
sophia Placebo: it strethegn the senses
Vendy Walpole: lighter yes and senses were better
Solobill Laville: I think that what starts to happen is the mind/body duality starts to dissipate
Qt Core: i found myself very focused on the bird chirping
Rish Bleriot: in 270 odd seconds ?
Fefonz Quan: i managed to go to the bathroom in those 90 sec :)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Vendy Walpole: I heard at the same time, sounds here and in the distanced street
Solobill Laville: it can, most likely not though Rish
Rish Bleriot: and to think it took sages of yore years to get there ...
Solobill Laville: My point was with practice and cultivation :)
sophia Placebo: now that my sense get better i think my room is in a mess :)
Rish Bleriot: but then this IS the digital age :)
Rish Bleriot: computers make it easier i guess
Fefonz Quan: yet, there is some new smell there, for me it ws like the incense in a retreat
Solobill Laville: A few years back I did see fairly immediate results though, within a week or two
genesis Zhangsun: implicit in what is said there Rish is that enlightenment is somehow dependent on time
genesis Zhangsun: is it?
Rish Bleriot: i cld beleive a week or two ...
Rish Bleriot: but 270 secs ?
genesis Zhangsun: from an enlightened perspective some would say there is no time
genesis Zhangsun: a week or two or 270 seconds pretty arbitrary
Rish Bleriot: no gen
Solobill Laville: Rish -> and people bring different history/experience with them of course
Rish Bleriot: 270 secs is 270 secs
Rish Bleriot: not enuff to find enlightenment ...speciallysince we only just started
Rish Bleriot: how abt a lil bit of honesty ?
Wol Euler: I disagree, a 270 second kiss is different in quality and quantity to 270 seconds of a dentist drilling
sophia Placebo: the light is within you
Rish Bleriot: :)
Solobill Laville: Of course, I don't think we are taling 'enlightenment' though ;)
Solobill Laville: *talking
Rish Bleriot: well have it ur way :)
sophia Placebo: some need longer time to find it some need less time
Solobill Laville: awareness is not a switch either
Rish Bleriot: instant enlightenment ...just add water :)
Vendy Walpole: I believge Rish that enlightenment can come in a sec to some and to some never
Wol Euler: I don't think, any of us is claiming to be enlightened, Rish.
Rish Bleriot: agreed
genesis Zhangsun: yes Vendy that was my point
genesis Zhangsun: that is is really not contingent on time
Vendy Walpole: agree
Rish Bleriot: but .... the point was .... can we lose thoughts in 270 secs ?
Rish Bleriot: after a lifetime of thinking
Fefonz Quan: Wol, the kiss and dentist might feel similar if you got the anesthetizing shot before tehm ;-)
Solobill Laville: baby steps
arabella Ella: or in 90 sec?
arabella Ella: but ... patience and practise help i guess
Solobill Laville: they are key, Ara
Rish Bleriot: i think we are not watching our thoughts that carefully ... next period ...how abt we watch them and see if they really are disappearing
sophia Placebo: lose thoughts?
Solobill Laville: I actually tried to steer us away from the "thoughts" aspect, Rish
Solobill Laville: Breath is more fundamental
arabella Ella nods
Solobill Laville: and takes care of that as well
Rish Bleriot: my poibnt again is .... how do we concentrate solely on breath if we are distracted by thoughts ?
genesis Zhangsun: by concentrating on breath
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Rish Bleriot: easy ..huh ? :)
arabella Ella: i know i am not an expdeert by when we focus on breathing we tend to get our thoughts moving to background
Vendy Walpole: just distance from them and watch them
Solobill Laville: As Fef said earlier, come back to your breath...gently...when you realize that you are off on the 'wild mustang' of your thoughts
Fefonz Quan: we concentrate, then distructed, the coming back to breath, again and again and again
Qt Core: i usually have problem controlling my thought and focusing on breathing is the only thing that can stop them
sophia Placebo: it is like your sadist moments rish
Wol Euler: "fail, fail again, fail better" as Beckett said.
Rish Bleriot: :))
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: or let go completely of the idea of success and failure
genesis Zhangsun: there is nothing "wrong" you could be doing
Fefonz Quan: and smile during :)
Wol Euler: yes of coruse it is difficult, and yes of course I am distracted, and so I start again.
Wol Euler: it's not a disaster, it doesnt invalidate the experience.
Rish Bleriot: how long have u been doing this Wol ?
genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly Wol the experience is still complete
Rish Bleriot: no of course it doesnt
Wol Euler: that was even shorter than the last one :)
Fefonz Quan: 4-5 this time...
Solobill Laville: Hi, Eliza :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Eliza
arabella Ella: Hiya Eliza
Solobill Laville: Fef, you are a slow breather after all! hehe
Fefonz Quan: also a slow thinker sometimes ;-)
sophia Placebo: hi eliza
Wol Euler: Rish, the experiment with 90 seconds is a couple of weeks old; I've been in PaB since last summer; I've been meditating on and off for about three years
Rish Bleriot: hmm
genesis Zhangsun: plus Wol is just a wise soul
genesis Zhangsun: and quick :)
Wol Euler chortles.
Solobill Laville: :)
Rish Bleriot: :)
Solobill Laville: I think the piont here is to 'do'!
arabella Ella: yes ... just 'do' it ...
Rish Bleriot: yep solo ...
genesis Zhangsun: no judgment
arabella Ella: but ... one difficulty may be ...
arabella Ella: we tend to assume the same method may be good for beginners and experts
Fefonz Quan: i would like to take some of teh emphasis on 'getting it', 'who gets it better/faster' ,'improving the meditatin' etc.
Fefonz Quan: of*
arabella Ella: when actually beginners may need a bit more time and guidance ... as we are fortunate to experience today
Rish Bleriot: off
Fefonz Quan: yes off
Rish Bleriot: a lil word ...if i may ...
Wol Euler nods
Solobill Laville: Ara, I think what is good for beginners is good for experts...and I am no expert
genesis Zhangsun: Fefonz do you feel there has been an emphasis on this?
Rish Bleriot: i started doing this at 15 ....
Fefonz Quan: treating awareness like a gym is misleading i believe.
Rish Bleriot: and did it for ...lets see ... some .... 15 yrs ... or a bit more
Fefonz Quan: Gen, i felt that by 'who is doing it more years/getting better' etc. there was some pointint gto it
Rish Bleriot: it does work wonders ... but not in 90 secs ... or 270 ....
Wol Euler: yes, there seems to be, fefonz. Rish asked me a question which I answered
genesis Zhangsun: AH yes I understand I thought you were speaking in general
Rish Bleriot: but of course solo is merely introducing us to the concept
Solobill Laville: Right, Rish, I think the point here, in SL, is to support others "doing" and sharing...
Rish Bleriot: so that we can do it .... for longer periods .... as and when we find the time
arabella Ella tends to agree with Rish and feels that as a beginner one may need more then 90 sec at times
Wol Euler: Rish, this is not meant to replace retreats and monasteries and teaching traditions.
Solobill Laville: There is no set agenda or topics for a session
Rish Bleriot: lol
Rish Bleriot: im in no monastery Wol :))
Solobill Laville: It just seemed today that a '101' may be helpful :)
Vendy Walpole: I do not agree that long practicing is always a condition to achieve it
Fefonz Quan: Rish, one of the reasons for the short times we practice it here is to make it easier to incorporate it to our busy daily lives
Rish Bleriot: but its a really nice thing ..once u get the hang of it
Rish Bleriot: helps ...
arabella Ella nods
Rish Bleriot: of course fef
Fefonz Quan: we replace lengeth with frequency, if i may quote some masters :)]
Rish Bleriot: but at the same time .... lets not let newcomers get weird ideas that smthn is going to happen to them in 270 secs
Vendy Walpole: how can you know?
Solobill Laville: there i disagree with you
Wol Euler: how do you know?
Rish Bleriot: ;)
Fefonz Quan: someh=thing yes, maybe not everything
Vendy Walpole: there is no rule
Solobill Laville: respectfully :)
Rish Bleriot: honesty ...
Rish Bleriot: or i cld keep my mouth shut :)
Solobill Laville: Plus, again, people bring different things here...
Fefonz Quan like to hrear what comes after those three dots
Solobill Laville: No, please, share your thoughts...maybe there is a misunderstanding of intention on our part
Fefonz Quan: (Rish's dots :)
Rish Bleriot: after i deal with this onslaught of PVTs fef ....excuse moi ....
Fefonz Quan: fef didn't understand 2 of the 3 words before his name there
Solobill Laville: OK, anyway, there are just some basic breathing techniques that can be used ...whenever! :)
sophia Placebo: i didnt expect wonders from the breathing excersis but i could sense the all over shift in awarness from your focusing on parts of your surrounding into focusing into part of your self ie breathing which amazingly give you a space to be aware of other surroundings i was ignoring usually
Solobill Laville: yep!
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Rish Bleriot: exactly sophia ...
Rish Bleriot: thats better
Rish Bleriot: u do become aware of an inner reality ...serene .... almost instantly ...
Rish Bleriot: almost
Fefonz Quan: (and then it goes away sometimes...)
Rish Bleriot: thats why we gotta practice :)
Fefonz Quan: linearity is not a major faculty of this stuff
Solobill Laville: Rish, are you familiar with upaya paramita?
Qt Core: in last days i thought about the awarenes while do the breathing like am active sonar against the usual one that is like a passive sonar (that is if you watched submarine battle movies) ;-)
Rish Bleriot: decode plz ...solo
Fefonz Quan: The upaya paramita is a small beaver living in the lakes of center america ;-) (just assicaation...)
Wol Euler: what an amusing analogy, qt
Solobill Laville: Gads...time...sorry to leave you hanging Rish, but I must be off
Rish Bleriot: aw
Wol Euler: bye solo, enjoy the weekend
Rish Bleriot: this is going to torture me ...
Qt Core: bye solo
Solobill Laville: (google)
Fefonz Quan: i feel the other way around Qt
Mickorod Renard: I find womens cooking programs are good for emptying the mind
Wol Euler: wikipedia!
sophia Placebo: bye solo thanks
Rish Bleriot: lol ! Mick
Mickorod Renard: bye solo
arabella Ella: bye solo
arabella Ella: ty
Solobill Laville: bye all!
Fefonz Quan: bye Solo
Rish Bleriot: i think i waqs counting how many times sophia's glasses changed colour ....in those 90 sec periods :))
Qt Core: i feel like the mind retreating in itself is expanding
Wol Euler: heheheeh
sophia Placebo: gazing into stars in a good night do empty your mind and fill it too
Rish Bleriot: actually ...
Rish Bleriot: the best way ...
Rish Bleriot: do we have musicians here ?
Rish Bleriot: amteurs even ?
Mickorod Renard: is that a new outfit Wol?
Wol Euler: an old fave actually :) cyberneko
Fefonz Quan amateurs giuitar player
arabella Ella is not a musician :(
Rish Bleriot: the best way is ... to lose urself playing an instrument ...
Rish Bleriot: u wld know fef ...
Qt Core: like to hear it absolutely unable to play anithing
Rish Bleriot: when u get into the melody .... ur mind throws out everything else
Fefonz Quan: yes, get the best improvisasions
Rish Bleriot: and u wake up from it ...refreshed
sophia Placebo: well , drawing too has a similar effect rish
Rish Bleriot: its like .... the world didnt exist around u for some time
Rish Bleriot: i guess ...
sophia Placebo: but nature has a special taste and calm
Fefonz Quan: i should go, thank you all and good weekend :)
sophia Placebo: bye fef
Qt Core: have fun fef, bye
Rish Bleriot: happy playing fef ...
Wol Euler: goodnight fefonz, shabbat shalom
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Mickorod Renard: bye Fef
Fefonz Quan: yep!
arabella Ella: bye fef
Rish Bleriot: but really ... this technique does improve things at the mental level
Rish Bleriot: we just have to do it diligently .... a few mins every day
Wol Euler nods. That is what I'm here for. I am not trying to become enlightened, I just want to be better able to deal with my life
Rish Bleriot: dont worry Wol ... u wont find enlightenment this way :))
Rish Bleriot: just good concentration and less stress
sophia Placebo: i once do it accidentally while im in bd trying to sleep and thinking of death , very scary and cause insomnia too
Rish Bleriot: wow
arabella Ella: peace and calm perhaps too?
arabella Ella: (related to less stress)
Rish Bleriot: of course
Rish Bleriot: but peace is related to ur innwer turmoils
sophia Placebo: peace and calm counting your brath and making sure you are not dead , no :)
Rish Bleriot: so ...dont think it wld help u too much there
Qt Core: i (that don't really follow the 15min practice) i've found ,y "amateurish" way as a way to regain control of my wandering m,ind (a bad thing as a programmer) and it is quite similar, almost identical if not for the set time interval\
arabella Ella: peace of mind often comes about when we learn to 'control' our thoughts and concerns
Rish Bleriot: C++ has a way of bringin ur mind to attention Mick ...
arabella Ella: what do you do then QT if not the 90 sec?
Qt Core: i just stop when i feel the need
Qt Core: so it depend on the actual state of mi mind
Rish Bleriot: peace of mind comes when we learn to deal with situations in our life in a positive way
sophia Placebo: agree rish
Mickorod Renard: yea,,,just noticed C++
Rish Bleriot: there is no easy pill for that :)
Wol Euler: no, but there are tools and habits to enable and encourage it, rish
Qt Core: i just stop when i feel there are too many thought strands deviating my focus from the task at hand
sophia Placebo: so even if i died tommorrow it is not that bad:)
Rish Bleriot: yep ....concetration ... lack of stress ... they help in so many ways
arabella Ella: tere are no easy tools for any of life's turmoils ... but often using different tools helps a great deal ... for peace of mind too i mean ... not just a positive attitude ... but also self discipline
Rish Bleriot: why are u so concerned with dyiong sophia ? its one thing that WILL happen for sure ...
Rish Bleriot: that only means ... its the least of our problems :)
Mickorod Renard: yea,,I am actually planing on dying one day
Rish Bleriot: it happens automatically ..we dont have to try too hard ...no stress at all
Qt Core: yeah, we just have to accept it... easy thing ;-)
sophia Placebo: true , so im not concern about it much now
Rish Bleriot: even if u dont accept it QT u will still have it :))
Mickorod Renard: living is more dificult than dying
Rish Bleriot: true ... MIck ...
Mickorod Renard: well,,at least I think it is
arabella Ella: not sure about that Mick cos dying will be a new experience and i think it may be difficult to 'let go' when the time comes
Rish Bleriot: specially if ur a programmes
Qt Core: yes, i know it but i have some periods here and there when i think about death
Rish Bleriot: r
Rish Bleriot: k ...shhh
sophia Placebo: but i belive in the day of judgment rish, thats why when i think of dying i think of who iam and what did i do so far?
Rish Bleriot: hmmm sombre thought
Rish Bleriot: how will u ever have peace now ...
sophia Placebo: kinda of judging my acts befor anyone dose
Qt Core: when it is bad i too lose some sleeb when it is good i only think i don't want a tie for my funeral ;-)
Qt Core: sleep*
Mickorod Renard: might not be how much u have done but how u do it
arabella Ella: but sophia dont forget ... God is all merciful
sophia Placebo: :) i can ,i just have to do what i can - good things - and be a better person everyday
Wol Euler: there#s a famous poem about this, which ends "they also serve who only stand and wait"
Wol Euler: you donÄt know what God wanted you to do, perhaps you have already accomplished all your assigned tasks?
sophia Placebo: true ara and most forgivable and knowing of my intentions and powers
arabella Ella: yes Sophia ... but God will be forgiving with you and with all of us and merciful too as God is Love
sophia Placebo: no wol , keep thanking him for each breath i have now and for health and for being able to be a better person every day
arabella Ella nods
Wol Euler: oh, I didn't mean that you should stop.
Rish Bleriot: how do we know we are getting better ?
Wol Euler: just that our measurement is probably not his...
sophia Placebo: and during that try not to do bad things to poeple around you or lose hope and trust in allah when poeple do bad things to you
Mickorod Renard: I think we dont need to know,,just try
sophia Placebo: so it is continous till my death :)
Wol Euler: yes :)
Rish Bleriot: yeah .... get that loop to do more things MIick ...
Mickorod Renard: grin,,yea,,clever isnt it
Rish Bleriot: ;)
sophia Placebo: getting better by appreciating god gifts to you better
Rish Bleriot: god's gift to Mick is the loop
Wol Euler: getting better by stopping being an arse.
Rish Bleriot: arses are so important ....
Mickorod Renard: I am very content with the loop
sophia Placebo: your body , your health, your mind , your surroundings
Rish Bleriot: excretory functions were invented by god too
Qt Core: RL calls, bye to all
Wol Euler: bye qt, take are
sophia Placebo: bye qt
genesis Zhangsun: me too!
Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
Rish Bleriot: ciao QT
Wol Euler: *care
genesis Zhangsun: bye all!
Wol Euler: and bye gen
Rish Bleriot: bye gen
Mickorod Renard: excretory functions are incredibe works of art
Mickorod Renard: bye Gen
arabella Ella: bye gen
sophia Placebo: me too have to go , bye all
arabella Ella: bye sophia
Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
Rish Bleriot: bye sophia ...
arabella Ella: alla mieghek
Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care
Mickorod Renard: well,,i guess i had best be going too
arabella Ella: bye Mick
Wol Euler: well, let's call it a night then?
Rish Bleriot: bye mick
Wol Euler: goodbye all, thanks for hte discussion
Mickorod Renard: bye rish, bye Wol bye Ara
arabella Ella: i must go too
arabella Ella: bye Wol and Rish
Wol Euler: bye mick, bye ara, bye rish
Rish Bleriot: bye wol ...