2009.05.01 13:00 - Wanna Breathe?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill Laville.

    Solobill Laville: Hello, Vendy, Rish :)
    Rish Bleriot: hi Solo
    Wol Euler: hello solo, Rish, vendy
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Wol
    Rish Bleriot: Hi Wol
    Solobill Laville meows at Wol :)
    Vendy Walpole: Hello Solo, was afk
    Solobill Laville: cyber-cat?
    Vendy Walpole: and Wol too :)
    Wol Euler: yep :)
    Wol Euler: a Friday night cheerfulness :)
    Solobill Laville: hehe, yay!
    Solobill Laville: oh, nice, the url is right there now...
    Wol Euler: yep, I changed that for people who log off before the session ends.
    Wol Euler: no excuse for not getting it!
    Solobill Laville looks around innocently
    Solobill Laville: uh, speaking of which...
    Solobill Laville looks guilty
    Solobill Laville: I am a week behind in posting
    Solobill Laville: gads
    Wol Euler: hheheheh
    Wol Euler: I just got my scribe piece done before the next one's sessions began
    Solobill Laville: Well done
    Wol Euler: it's a struggle and I feel that I am doing a poor job of it
    Solobill Laville: Vendy I think I may have seen you before...here or at Kira...nice to see you again
    Vendy Walpole: yes, thank you
    Solobill Laville: And nice to meet you Rish
    Solobill Laville: Have you been to PaB before?
    Rish Bleriot: nope
    Solobill Laville: OK
    Solobill Laville: Basically we are a group exploring 'reality' or 'Being'
    Solobill Laville: through mini-meditations 'playing as Being', hence the name ;)
    Rish Bleriot: :)
    Solobill Laville: then we just discuss it, and whatever else may come along
    Rish Bleriot: k
    Solobill Laville: One model is to stop every 15 minutes for 9 seconds, and just "Be"
    Rish Bleriot: arent we just "being" rt now ?
    Solobill Laville: Stop, drop, and see
    Wol Euler: which is referred to as a "1% time tax"
    Solobill Laville: yes, we are, but the trick is just realize it
    Solobill Laville: not so much of a 'just'
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Rish Bleriot: k
    Rish Bleriot: hope u dont mind the shorthand and the lack of apostrophes ?
    Wol Euler: we are often "being" many things though: harassed, distracted, annoyed, certain of what somebody meant by that remark ...
    Rish Bleriot: its faster ...
    Solobill Laville: np
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Solobill Laville: Hey, Fef :)
    Vendy Walpole: hello
    Fefonz Quan: Hey everybody :)
    Wol Euler: those things we are "being" can get in the way of appreciating and understanding what is going on around us
    Wol Euler: the idea of "dropping" is to try to see what is really around us, rather than what we think it means
    Rish Bleriot: hm
    Vendy Walpole: dropping= awaraness?
    Wol Euler: droppping makes space for awareness
    Rish Bleriot: dropping = loosing ur paradigms
    Solobill Laville: yes
    Solobill Laville: letting go of your distractions, your comparisons, your mental compartmentalizations
    Solobill Laville: just trying to "Be"
    Vendy Walpole: leaving the consiousness
    Rish Bleriot: no ... u will be ver conscious ... of urself ...sans distractions :)
    Solobill Laville: perhaps, Vendy, but that is a tricky word, with quite a few meanings
    Solobill Laville: Hi Ara
    Wol Euler: hllo ara
    Vendy Walpole: to me , its mind activity
    Vendy Walpole: hi
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Ara.
    Solobill Laville: There is a clock set here at every 15 minutes (3 minutes from now)
    Rish Bleriot: hi there
    Fefonz Quan: (Solo, i think this is the longest english word i saw in a long time)
    Solobill Laville: we can all try it if you'd like, and share our experiences
    Solobill Laville: hehe...sorry Fef...:)
    Fefonz Quan: np, it was fun :)
    Solobill Laville: So, if we're game, at :15 we can just try to stop, drop, and see
    Solobill Laville: it is for 90 seconds
    Wol Euler grins
    Solobill Laville: try not to think of "what" you will share...just 'be'
    Solobill Laville: concentrating on breathing can really help....even counting your breaths
    Rish Bleriot: yes
    Wol Euler: yes, Stim's exercise.
    arabella Ella nods
    Rish Bleriot: or being dead tired :)
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Solobill Laville: HI mick :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Micko
    Solobill Laville: Anything to share in the 90 secs? How did dropping go?
    Rish Bleriot: do u think 90 secs is enuff Solo ?
    Mickorod Renard: HI
    Vendy Walpole: not so good as it could be
    arabella Ella: I find it very difficult to be honest
    Solobill Laville: Depends, Rish
    Wol Euler: it'S an experiment, Rish, we do that for a few weeks now
    Wol Euler: it is perhaps either too long or too short
    Fefonz Quan: i found it nice. could hear the 'buzz of life' zooming silently
    Wol Euler: hello sphia
    sophia Placebo: greeting everyone
    Wol Euler: *sophia
    Vendy Walpole: hi
    arabella Ella: Hiya sophia
    Solobill Laville: In shorter timeframes the idea may be to make up for it in quantity
    Mickorod Renard: Hi sophia
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia, Mick
    Rish Bleriot: practice makes a man perfect ... but ... i still think 90 secs is a bit too little to "drop" it completely ...
    Solobill Laville: Hiya, Sophia :)
    arabella Ella: What I find difficult is to suddenly switch ... I think I need some lead up time and guidance :)
    Rish Bleriot: another lement we cld add is ...
    Rish Bleriot: to split the mind in two ... one part watching the other ...so that it doesnt wander
    Fefonz Quan: there will be another one in 15 min Rish to work on it :)
    Vendy Walpole: :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone,,Fef Vend Solo wol Rish Ara
    arabella Ella: and another, and another
    Rish Bleriot: hi
    Vendy Walpole: patience Rish
    Vendy Walpole: grins
    Rish Bleriot: two is the minimum Ara ... to watch
    Solobill Laville: Patience is a virtue :)
    Vendy Walpole: vary hard to develop to me
    Vendy Walpole: I admit
    Solobill Laville nods
    arabella Ella: could you perhaps help us Solo
    Mickorod Renard: being late i am not sure what i am doing
    Solobill Laville: baby steps are a great way to get going :)
    arabella Ella: with a lead up to help us to start to empty our minds before the 15 min bell pls?
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Well, the mind, as we all know is an amazingly active thing
    Fefonz Quan: why empty ara?
    sophia Placebo: i dont think i can do that
    arabella Ella: if not empty ... to help us to use the 90 sec as best we can
    Fefonz Quan: do what ara?
    Solobill Laville: So, at first, there are some ways we can calm it
    Solobill Laville: Like rubbing a dog's belly :)
    Fefonz Quan: (Sophia that was)
    arabella Ella: as I said i find it difficult to suddenly switch ... one moment active mind ... the next the 90 sec silence
    Mickorod Renard: just calling my dog
    arabella Ella: i am sure it needs discipline
    Solobill Laville: The breath is a wondrous bridge
    sophia Placebo: empty my mind fef , that causes headach due to internal pressure
    Solobill Laville: ha
    Wol Euler: :)
    sophia Placebo: external*
    Fefonz Quan: so why should you empty it?
    arabella Ella: what should we do then?
    Mickorod Renard: bit like the trash bin i guess
    Vendy Walpole: I used to to it when I was a student ...remeber, and was very good in that, just swithced off from boring teaching
    Vendy Walpole: it could help me now :)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Vendy Walpole: still can recall it
    sophia Placebo: i was comminting on arabella , but serously i tried it befor and i couldnt
    Rish Bleriot: my mind was always empty when i was a student ... except when those girls walked into class ....
    arabella Ella: perhaps we could listen to the experience of those of you who were successful in the first 90 sec?
    arabella Ella: pls?
    Vendy Walpole: blinks
    Solobill Laville: There are different methods, watching and/or counting the breath may be the most basic and organic
    Fefonz Quan: i don't think Solo (or others) were aiming at empty the mind, maybe because it is not working ;-)
    arabella Ella: then what did u do and how does it work pls?
    Solobill Laville: Well, that is what I try to do, or at the least not 'force' anything
    Rish Bleriot: solo ... we ought to watch our minds when we concentrate on breathing .... and not allow any thoughts in
    Mickorod Renard: then u make the dog roll over
    Solobill Laville: not really, Rish, I think that is to Fef's point
    Solobill Laville: There is nothing wrong with thoughts, don't need to fight them
    Solobill Laville: But we can sidetrack them a bit, by 'watching our breath'
    Rish Bleriot: then how will we just "be" ? if we still have thoughts ...
    Solobill Laville: well, again, baby steps
    Rish Bleriot: or did u mean ... let thoughts run randomly ?
    Rish Bleriot: without directing them ?
    Fefonz Quan: we will stil also see images with are eyes Rish, do they interupt our Being?
    Wol Euler: yes, let them run in and straight out again
    Solobill Laville: There is no 'switch' to just turn them off
    arabella Ella: Solo and Fef ... could you desc ribe your own experience?
    Solobill Laville: Sure
    arabella Ella: ty
    Solobill Laville: #1 sit up straight
    Solobill Laville: #2 relax my shoulders
    Mickorod Renard: I think the problem is the rush hour motorway of thoughts ,,and we need to get onto a nice quiet country road of thoughts
    Solobill Laville: #3 take a deep breath, see it come in throuh my nose and into my lungs
    arabella Ella listens
    Solobill Laville: #4 let it out slowly and see it pass up my lungs and out my nose
    arabella Ella sits up straight and relaxes her shoulders ... mmm
    Solobill Laville: #5 count (1, 2, etc)
    Solobill Laville: that is the very basic way
    sophia Placebo: thats work already, thinks i should close my eyes and sl too :)
    arabella Ella: thanks!
    Rish Bleriot: thats ur basic buddhist form of meditation .... first step ...
    Solobill Laville: right
    Solobill Laville: and others
    Rish Bleriot: then imagery ...
    Solobill Laville: breath is a powerful bridge
    Fefonz Quan: i wouldn't rank them Rish
    Solobill Laville: no imagery for me :)
    arabella Ella: should we also remove any RL disrtractions?
    Rish Bleriot: but how does it help us Solo ?
    Vendy Walpole: mediatation can be done in any way any time
    Fefonz Quan nods to vendy
    Vendy Walpole: not only in the crossed legs posture
    Solobill Laville: right
    Wol Euler: I find it calming and centring, it helps me deal with stress
    Solobill Laville: helps in many ways...
    Solobill Laville: those are three :)
    Fefonz Quan: yet is is easier to some starting in a quiet place with less interupptions vendy
    sophia Placebo: works better when my eys are open
    Wol Euler grins.
    Solobill Laville: also concentration
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Solobill Laville: yes, eyes open is pretty important
    Solobill Laville: Yo, Gen :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
    Vendy Walpole: helo
    arabella Ella: Hiya Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
    Solobill Laville: (we can try again)
    Fefonz Quan: i like the eyes closed too. easeier to really put the volume of things down
    sophia Placebo: amazing :) ty solobill
    Solobill Laville: Ara, this is part of my practice: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Guardians%...B_-_10_Breaths
    Rish Bleriot: what happened sophia ??
    Solobill Laville: yes, please, sophia
    arabella Ella: thanks Solo!
    sophia Placebo: my mind was almost empty purposly
    Solobill Laville: What were you doing?
    Solobill Laville: (watching your breath, counting, etc, ?)
    sophia Placebo: automaticaly siquating and putting my too palms togather infront of me and gazing to thekeybaord
    genesis Zhangsun: breath counting is very useful :)
    genesis Zhangsun: I like this summary
    genesis Zhangsun: ty
    Wol Euler: very good, thank you.
    sophia Placebo: though keeping the brathes at he same pace require some efforts
    Solobill Laville: some folks say to not control it, just watch, some to slow it down....
    Wol Euler: I don't try to control my breathing, just watch and count
    Solobill Laville: yes
    Solobill Laville: even Zen schools differ in that :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Solobill Laville: and on the type of meditiation, of course
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i know the no-control approach
    Solobill Laville: I've done both
    arabella Ella: it certainly seems to work and make one more relaxed altho i think as a beginner some of us may need a bit more time
    Fefonz Quan: then non-controlled they are slowing down :)
    sophia Placebo: yep solo , i guess naturally it is not controlled and has a ruthm but when are aware of it , your awarness distube that
    Wol Euler: seems to me to fit better with the "dropping" approach, let your breathing be what it is
    Fefonz Quan nods to Wol
    Mickorod Renard: I notice my heart beat slowing more than anything
    Solobill Laville: Hi, QT :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Qt
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Qt
    Fefonz Quan: hi qt
    sophia Placebo: hi qt
    Wol Euler: buona sera QT
    Qt Core: hi all
    arabella Ella: ciao Qt
    Vendy Walpole: hi
    Solobill Laville: Vendy, what are your thoughts about that 90 last seconds?
    Vendy Walpole: I notced that I did not want to leave my thoughts
    Vendy Walpole: for unknown reason
    Vendy Walpole: there was a resistance in me
    Fefonz Quan: another approac i know says that 'when you see that your mind gone to thoughts, g-e-n-t-l-y return your awareness to the breathing
    Fefonz Quan: (sorry, for jumping in, plese ignore)
    Solobill Laville: Ha! no way! Share Fef, that is the point!
    Fefonz Quan: yep, just didn't see durig writing that someone is talkng
    Solobill Laville: ah, ok
    Solobill Laville: Sometimes we think we are our thoughts
    Vendy Walpole: or think they are very imprtant and can't be postoponed :)
    Vendy Walpole: postponed*
    Vendy Walpole: chuckles
    Vendy Walpole: just caught in their grid
    Solobill Laville: yes, another trick I've used is letting thoughts float away like ballons
    Solobill Laville: *balloons
    sophia Placebo: baloons!
    Solobill Laville: They arise, you acknowledge it, they let it float away
    Wol Euler nods
    Solobill Laville: *then
    Fefonz Quan: one favorite metaphor for me is 'let them walk around like e thief in an empty house'
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Wol Euler: trying to push them down only makes htem more present, in my experience
    genesis Zhangsun: shall we try your breathing technique in the next 90 second period?
    Solobill Laville: yes Wol
    Fefonz Quan: i agree, that's why i like the 'gently' approach
    Solobill Laville: and sure Gen!
    Wol Euler: yes, good idea Gen
    sophia Placebo: switching tv channels would work too solo right?
    Solobill Laville: maybe, you tell me :)
    Fefonz Quan: selling your TV would work great if you ask me :)
    genesis Zhangsun: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Guardians%...B_-_10_Breaths
    Wol Euler smiles. Was that really 90 seconds? seemed much shorter
    genesis Zhangsun: I felt that too Wol
    Solobill Laville: Anything to share? Yes, Wol, isn't that an amazing side effect?
    Solobill Laville: That was 9 breaths for me :)
    genesis Zhangsun: me too
    Vendy Walpole: that was becoming aware of much larger space than my room where I am now
    Fefonz Quan: can you say more Vendy?
    Vendy Walpole: I had a feeling I am distancing from my body ...sounds funnt perhaps
    Vendy Walpole: funny
    Vendy Walpole: and watching wider space
    Vendy Walpole: and sounds
    Solobill Laville: Awesome, Vendy :)
    Fefonz Quan: well, amazing, and after 3x90 secs :)
    Vendy Walpole: happens sometimes
    Vendy Walpole: when I want it
    Vendy Walpole: :)
    Wol Euler: my share of the world seems larger somehow :)
    Wol Euler: I feel taller and lighter and expanded.
    Solobill Laville: nice
    sophia Placebo: it strethegn the senses
    Vendy Walpole: lighter yes and senses were better
    Solobill Laville: I think that what starts to happen is the mind/body duality starts to dissipate
    Qt Core: i found myself very focused on the bird chirping
    Rish Bleriot: in 270 odd seconds ?
    Fefonz Quan: i managed to go to the bathroom in those 90 sec :)
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Vendy Walpole: I heard at the same time, sounds here and in the distanced street
    Solobill Laville: it can, most likely not though Rish
    Rish Bleriot: and to think it took sages of yore years to get there ...
    Solobill Laville: My point was with practice and cultivation :)
    sophia Placebo: now that my sense get better i think my room is in a mess :)
    Rish Bleriot: but then this IS the digital age :)
    Rish Bleriot: computers make it easier i guess
    Fefonz Quan: yet, there is some new smell there, for me it ws like the incense in a retreat
    Solobill Laville: A few years back I did see fairly immediate results though, within a week or two
    genesis Zhangsun: implicit in what is said there Rish is that enlightenment is somehow dependent on time
    genesis Zhangsun: is it?
    Rish Bleriot: i cld beleive a week or two ...
    Rish Bleriot: but 270 secs ?
    genesis Zhangsun: from an enlightened perspective some would say there is no time
    genesis Zhangsun: a week or two or 270 seconds pretty arbitrary
    Rish Bleriot: no gen
    Solobill Laville: Rish -> and people bring different history/experience with them of course
    Rish Bleriot: 270 secs is 270 secs
    Rish Bleriot: not enuff to find enlightenment ...speciallysince we only just started
    Rish Bleriot: how abt a lil bit of honesty ?
    Wol Euler: I disagree, a 270 second kiss is different in quality and quantity to 270 seconds of a dentist drilling
    sophia Placebo: the light is within you
    Rish Bleriot: :)
    Solobill Laville: Of course, I don't think we are taling 'enlightenment' though ;)
    Solobill Laville: *talking
    Rish Bleriot: well have it ur way :)
    sophia Placebo: some need longer time to find it some need less time
    Solobill Laville: awareness is not a switch either
    Rish Bleriot: instant enlightenment ...just add water :)
    Vendy Walpole: I believge Rish that enlightenment can come in a sec to some and to some never
    Wol Euler: I don't think, any of us is claiming to be enlightened, Rish.
    Rish Bleriot: agreed
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Vendy that was my point
    genesis Zhangsun: that is is really not contingent on time
    Vendy Walpole: agree
    Rish Bleriot: but .... the point was .... can we lose thoughts in 270 secs ?
    Rish Bleriot: after a lifetime of thinking
    Fefonz Quan: Wol, the kiss and dentist might feel similar if you got the anesthetizing shot before tehm ;-)
    Solobill Laville: baby steps
    arabella Ella: or in 90 sec?
    arabella Ella: but ... patience and practise help i guess
    Solobill Laville: they are key, Ara
    Rish Bleriot: i think we are not watching our thoughts that carefully ... next period ...how abt we watch them and see if they really are disappearing
    sophia Placebo: lose thoughts?
    Solobill Laville: I actually tried to steer us away from the "thoughts" aspect, Rish
    Solobill Laville: Breath is more fundamental
    arabella Ella nods
    Solobill Laville: and takes care of that as well
    Rish Bleriot: my poibnt again is .... how do we concentrate solely on breath if we are distracted by thoughts ?
    genesis Zhangsun: by concentrating on breath
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Rish Bleriot: easy ..huh ? :)
    arabella Ella: i know i am not an expdeert by when we focus on breathing we tend to get our thoughts moving to background
    Vendy Walpole: just distance from them and watch them
    Solobill Laville: As Fef said earlier, come back to your breath...gently...when you realize that you are off on the 'wild mustang' of your thoughts
    Fefonz Quan: we concentrate, then distructed, the coming back to breath, again and again and again
    Qt Core: i usually have problem controlling my thought and focusing on breathing is the only thing that can stop them
    sophia Placebo: it is like your sadist moments rish
    Wol Euler: "fail, fail again, fail better" as Beckett said.
    Rish Bleriot: :))
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: or let go completely of the idea of success and failure
    genesis Zhangsun: there is nothing "wrong" you could be doing
    Fefonz Quan: and smile during :)
    Wol Euler: yes of coruse it is difficult, and yes of course I am distracted, and so I start again.
    Wol Euler: it's not a disaster, it doesnt invalidate the experience.
    Rish Bleriot: how long have u been doing this Wol ?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly Wol the experience is still complete
    Rish Bleriot: no of course it doesnt
    Wol Euler: that was even shorter than the last one :)
    Fefonz Quan: 4-5 this time...
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Eliza :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Eliza
    arabella Ella: Hiya Eliza
    Solobill Laville: Fef, you are a slow breather after all! hehe
    Fefonz Quan: also a slow thinker sometimes ;-)
    sophia Placebo: hi eliza
    Wol Euler: Rish, the experiment with 90 seconds is a couple of weeks old; I've been in PaB since last summer; I've been meditating on and off for about three years
    Rish Bleriot: hmm
    genesis Zhangsun: plus Wol is just a wise soul
    genesis Zhangsun: and quick :)
    Wol Euler chortles.
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Rish Bleriot: :)
    Solobill Laville: I think the piont here is to 'do'!
    arabella Ella: yes ... just 'do' it ...
    Rish Bleriot: yep solo ...
    genesis Zhangsun: no judgment
    arabella Ella: but ... one difficulty may be ...
    arabella Ella: we tend to assume the same method may be good for beginners and experts
    Fefonz Quan: i would like to take some of teh emphasis on 'getting it', 'who gets it better/faster' ,'improving the meditatin' etc.
    Fefonz Quan: of*
    arabella Ella: when actually beginners may need a bit more time and guidance ... as we are fortunate to experience today
    Rish Bleriot: off
    Fefonz Quan: yes off
    Rish Bleriot: a lil word ...if i may ...
    Wol Euler nods
    Solobill Laville: Ara, I think what is good for beginners is good for experts...and I am no expert
    genesis Zhangsun: Fefonz do you feel there has been an emphasis on this?
    Rish Bleriot: i started doing this at 15 ....
    Fefonz Quan: treating awareness like a gym is misleading i believe.
    Rish Bleriot: and did it for ...lets see ... some .... 15 yrs ... or a bit more
    Fefonz Quan: Gen, i felt that by 'who is doing it more years/getting better' etc. there was some pointint gto it
    Rish Bleriot: it does work wonders ... but not in 90 secs ... or 270 ....
    Wol Euler: yes, there seems to be, fefonz. Rish asked me a question which I answered
    genesis Zhangsun: AH yes I understand I thought you were speaking in general
    Rish Bleriot: but of course solo is merely introducing us to the concept
    Solobill Laville: Right, Rish, I think the point here, in SL, is to support others "doing" and sharing...
    Rish Bleriot: so that we can do it .... for longer periods .... as and when we find the time
    arabella Ella tends to agree with Rish and feels that as a beginner one may need more then 90 sec at times
    Wol Euler: Rish, this is not meant to replace retreats and monasteries and teaching traditions.
    Solobill Laville: There is no set agenda or topics for a session
    Rish Bleriot: lol
    Rish Bleriot: im in no monastery Wol :))
    Solobill Laville: It just seemed today that a '101' may be helpful :)
    Vendy Walpole: I do not agree that long practicing is always a condition to achieve it
    Fefonz Quan: Rish, one of the reasons for the short times we practice it here is to make it easier to incorporate it to our busy daily lives
    Rish Bleriot: but its a really nice thing ..once u get the hang of it
    Rish Bleriot: helps ...
    arabella Ella nods
    Rish Bleriot: of course fef
    Fefonz Quan: we replace lengeth with frequency, if i may quote some masters :)]
    Rish Bleriot: but at the same time .... lets not let newcomers get weird ideas that smthn is going to happen to them in 270 secs
    Vendy Walpole: how can you know?
    Solobill Laville: there i disagree with you
    Wol Euler: how do you know?
    Rish Bleriot: ;)
    Fefonz Quan: someh=thing yes, maybe not everything
    Vendy Walpole: there is no rule
    Solobill Laville: respectfully :)
    Rish Bleriot: honesty ...
    Rish Bleriot: or i cld keep my mouth shut :)
    Solobill Laville: Plus, again, people bring different things here...
    Fefonz Quan like to hrear what comes after those three dots
    Solobill Laville: No, please, share your thoughts...maybe there is a misunderstanding of intention on our part
    Fefonz Quan: (Rish's dots :)
    Rish Bleriot: after i deal with this onslaught of PVTs fef ....excuse moi ....
    Fefonz Quan: fef didn't understand 2 of the 3 words before his name there
    Solobill Laville: OK, anyway, there are just some basic breathing techniques that can be used ...whenever! :)
    sophia Placebo: i didnt expect wonders from the breathing excersis but i could sense the all over shift in awarness from your focusing on parts of your surrounding into focusing into part of your self ie breathing which amazingly give you a space to be aware of other surroundings i was ignoring usually
    Solobill Laville: yep!
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Rish Bleriot: exactly sophia ...
    Rish Bleriot: thats better
    Rish Bleriot: u do become aware of an inner reality ...serene .... almost instantly ...
    Rish Bleriot: almost
    Fefonz Quan: (and then it goes away sometimes...)
    Rish Bleriot: thats why we gotta practice :)
    Fefonz Quan: linearity is not a major faculty of this stuff
    Solobill Laville: Rish, are you familiar with upaya paramita?
    Qt Core: in last days i thought about the awarenes while do the breathing like am active sonar against the usual one that is like a passive sonar (that is if you watched submarine battle movies) ;-)
    Rish Bleriot: decode plz ...solo
    Fefonz Quan: The upaya paramita is a small beaver living in the lakes of center america ;-) (just assicaation...)
    Wol Euler: what an amusing analogy, qt
    Solobill Laville: Gads...time...sorry to leave you hanging Rish, but I must be off
    Rish Bleriot: aw
    Wol Euler: bye solo, enjoy the weekend
    Rish Bleriot: this is going to torture me ...
    Qt Core: bye solo
    Solobill Laville: (google)
    Fefonz Quan: i feel the other way around Qt
    Mickorod Renard: I find womens cooking programs are good for emptying the mind
    Wol Euler: wikipedia!
    sophia Placebo: bye solo thanks
    Rish Bleriot: lol ! Mick
    Mickorod Renard: bye solo
    arabella Ella: bye solo
    arabella Ella: ty
    Solobill Laville: bye all!
    Fefonz Quan: bye Solo
    Rish Bleriot: i think i waqs counting how many times sophia's glasses changed colour ....in those 90 sec periods :))
    Qt Core: i feel like the mind retreating in itself is expanding
    Wol Euler: heheheeh
    sophia Placebo: gazing into stars in a good night do empty your mind and fill it too
    Rish Bleriot: actually ...
    Rish Bleriot: the best way ...
    Rish Bleriot: do we have musicians here ?
    Rish Bleriot: amteurs even ?
    Mickorod Renard: is that a new outfit Wol?
    Wol Euler: an old fave actually :) cyberneko
    Fefonz Quan amateurs giuitar player
    arabella Ella is not a musician :(
    Rish Bleriot: the best way is ... to lose urself playing an instrument ...
    Rish Bleriot: u wld know fef ...
    Qt Core: like to hear it absolutely unable to play anithing
    Rish Bleriot: when u get into the melody .... ur mind throws out everything else
    Fefonz Quan: yes, get the best improvisasions
    Rish Bleriot: and u wake up from it ...refreshed
    sophia Placebo: well , drawing too has a similar effect rish
    Rish Bleriot: its like .... the world didnt exist around u for some time
    Rish Bleriot: i guess ...
    sophia Placebo: but nature has a special taste and calm
    Fefonz Quan: i should go, thank you all and good weekend :)
    sophia Placebo: bye fef
    Qt Core: have fun fef, bye
    Rish Bleriot: happy playing fef ...
    Wol Euler: goodnight fefonz, shabbat shalom
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Mickorod Renard: bye Fef
    Fefonz Quan: yep!
    arabella Ella: bye fef
    Rish Bleriot: but really ... this technique does improve things at the mental level
    Rish Bleriot: we just have to do it diligently .... a few mins every day
    Wol Euler nods. That is what I'm here for. I am not trying to become enlightened, I just want to be better able to deal with my life
    Rish Bleriot: dont worry Wol ... u wont find enlightenment this way :))
    Rish Bleriot: just good concentration and less stress
    sophia Placebo: i once do it accidentally while im in bd trying to sleep and thinking of death , very scary and cause insomnia too
    Rish Bleriot: wow
    arabella Ella: peace and calm perhaps too?
    arabella Ella: (related to less stress)
    Rish Bleriot: of course
    Rish Bleriot: but peace is related to ur innwer turmoils
    sophia Placebo: peace and calm counting your brath and making sure you are not dead , no :)
    Rish Bleriot: so ...dont think it wld help u too much there
    Qt Core: i (that don't really follow the 15min practice) i've found ,y "amateurish" way as a way to regain control of my wandering m,ind (a bad thing as a programmer) and it is quite similar, almost identical if not for the set time interval\
    arabella Ella: peace of mind often comes about when we learn to 'control' our thoughts and concerns
    Rish Bleriot: C++ has a way of bringin ur mind to attention Mick ...
    arabella Ella: what do you do then QT if not the 90 sec?
    Qt Core: i just stop when i feel the need
    Qt Core: so it depend on the actual state of mi mind
    Rish Bleriot: peace of mind comes when we learn to deal with situations in our life in a positive way
    sophia Placebo: agree rish
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,,just noticed C++
    Rish Bleriot: there is no easy pill for that :)
    Wol Euler: no, but there are tools and habits to enable and encourage it, rish
    Qt Core: i just stop when i feel there are too many thought strands deviating my focus from the task at hand
    sophia Placebo: so even if i died tommorrow it is not that bad:)
    Rish Bleriot: yep ....concetration ... lack of stress ... they help in so many ways
    arabella Ella: tere are no easy tools for any of life's turmoils ... but often using different tools helps a great deal ... for peace of mind too i mean ... not just a positive attitude ... but also self discipline
    Rish Bleriot: why are u so concerned with dyiong sophia ? its one thing that WILL happen for sure ...
    Rish Bleriot: that only means ... its the least of our problems :)
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,I am actually planing on dying one day
    Rish Bleriot: it happens automatically ..we dont have to try too hard ...no stress at all
    Qt Core: yeah, we just have to accept it... easy thing ;-)
    sophia Placebo: true , so im not concern about it much now
    Rish Bleriot: even if u dont accept it QT u will still have it :))
    Mickorod Renard: living is more dificult than dying
    Rish Bleriot: true ... MIck ...
    Mickorod Renard: well,,at least I think it is
    arabella Ella: not sure about that Mick cos dying will be a new experience and i think it may be difficult to 'let go' when the time comes
    Rish Bleriot: specially if ur a programmes
    Qt Core: yes, i know it but i have some periods here and there when i think about death
    Rish Bleriot: r
    Rish Bleriot: k ...shhh
    sophia Placebo: but i belive in the day of judgment rish, thats why when i think of dying i think of who iam and what did i do so far?
    Rish Bleriot: hmmm sombre thought
    Rish Bleriot: how will u ever have peace now ...
    sophia Placebo: kinda of judging my acts befor anyone dose
    Qt Core: when it is bad i too lose some sleeb when it is good i only think i don't want a tie for my funeral ;-)
    Qt Core: sleep*
    Mickorod Renard: might not be how much u have done but how u do it
    arabella Ella: but sophia dont forget ... God is all merciful
    sophia Placebo: :) i can ,i just have to do what i can - good things - and be a better person everyday
    Wol Euler: there#s a famous poem about this, which ends "they also serve who only stand and wait"
    Wol Euler: you donÄt know what God wanted you to do, perhaps you have already accomplished all your assigned tasks?
    sophia Placebo: true ara and most forgivable and knowing of my intentions and powers
    arabella Ella: yes Sophia ... but God will be forgiving with you and with all of us and merciful too as God is Love
    sophia Placebo: no wol , keep thanking him for each breath i have now and for health and for being able to be a better person every day
    arabella Ella nods
    Wol Euler: oh, I didn't mean that you should stop.
    Rish Bleriot: how do we know we are getting better ?
    Wol Euler: just that our measurement is probably not his...
    sophia Placebo: and during that try not to do bad things to poeple around you or lose hope and trust in allah when poeple do bad things to you
    Mickorod Renard: I think we dont need to know,,just try
    sophia Placebo: so it is continous till my death :)
    Wol Euler: yes :)
    Rish Bleriot: yeah .... get that loop to do more things MIick ...
    Mickorod Renard: grin,,yea,,clever isnt it
    Rish Bleriot: ;)
    sophia Placebo: getting better by appreciating god gifts to you better
    Rish Bleriot: god's gift to Mick is the loop
    Wol Euler: getting better by stopping being an arse.
    Rish Bleriot: arses are so important ....
    Mickorod Renard: I am very content with the loop
    sophia Placebo: your body , your health, your mind , your surroundings
    Rish Bleriot: excretory functions were invented by god too
    Qt Core: RL calls, bye to all
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take are
    sophia Placebo: bye qt
    genesis Zhangsun: me too!
    Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
    Rish Bleriot: ciao QT
    Wol Euler: *care
    genesis Zhangsun: bye all!
    Wol Euler: and bye gen
    Rish Bleriot: bye gen
    Mickorod Renard: excretory functions are incredibe works of art
    Mickorod Renard: bye Gen
    arabella Ella: bye gen
    sophia Placebo: me too have to go , bye all
    arabella Ella: bye sophia
    Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
    Rish Bleriot: bye sophia ...
    arabella Ella: alla mieghek
    Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i guess i had best be going too
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Wol Euler: well, let's call it a night then?
    Rish Bleriot: bye mick
    Wol Euler: goodbye all, thanks for hte discussion
    Mickorod Renard: bye rish, bye Wol bye Ara
    arabella Ella: i must go too
    arabella Ella: bye Wol and Rish
    Wol Euler: bye mick, bye ara, bye rish
    Rish Bleriot: bye wol ...
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