2009.05.11 13:00 - Half Truths

The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

Qt Core: hi Stim
Stim Morane: Hi QT
Qt Core: hi Scath
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello QT, Stim
Stim Morane: Hi Scathach
sophia Placebo: greetings all
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
Qt Core: hi sophia
Stim Morane: Hi sophia
Stim Morane: well, I guess it's time to start ... any thoughts or insights+
Stim Morane: ?
Stim Morane: Hi Sky!
sophia Placebo: hi sky
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sky
Sky Szimmer: hello everyone!
Qt Core: hi sky
Stim Morane: Are PaB sessions becoming more laid back?
Stim Morane: :)
Sky Szimmer: oh?
Scathach Rhiadra: seems to be so:)
sophia Placebo: :)
sophia Placebo: hi fef
Sky Szimmer: can't stay long but just dropping in briefly
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz, Trmel
Qt Core: have we switched the silence periods and the talk ones ? :-)
Fefonz Quan: Hello all :)
sophia Placebo: hi tarmel
Stim Morane: Sky, your schedule was the same last time. And we didn't really address the point you raised then.
sophia Placebo: that would be a challenge qt
Qt Core: hi fef, tarmel
Sky Szimmer: ah. that's alright. it wasn't that interesting
Stim Morane: Hi Fefonz, Tarmel
Fefonz Quan: (who broght the car?)
Fefonz Quan: brought*
Tarmel Udimo: Hi everyone
Stim Morane: well, would you like to start things off today, Sky?
Sky Szimmer: oh no... if you don't mind, I'd rather be the silent observer today as my time is very short
Stim Morane: OK
Stim Morane: hi kaju
Tarmel Udimo: Sky - I think if I remember right it was about the secret and manifesting what you want?
Tarmel Udimo: it had a huge impact in RL
Sky Szimmer: yes. that is right. i guess i am always trying to control my life and looking for the right ingredient
Sky Szimmer: : )
Qt Core: (a big club in most cases)
Qt Core: ;-)
Sky Szimmer: but that is precisely what we aren't supposed to do.
Fefonz Quan: well, it does succeed in breaking some stuff, surprisingly :)
Sky Szimmer: i guess the idea behind the secret is that we are constantly manifesting our "reality" by what we hold in our mind.
Tarmel Udimo: i think that's the case
Fefonz Quan: (just to clarify - we are talking about 'the secret' - the movie?)
Sky Szimmer: so we make our own "reality" . Right Fefonz.
Tarmel Udimo: yes - DVD
Fefonz Quan: ok, thanks.
Qt Core: is there a movie too ? i only saw several books in the bookshops, no movie
Sky Szimmer: not a movie, but DVD or online. i didn't actually watch the whole thing
Tarmel Udimo: hva eyou seen it Stim?
Tarmel Udimo: have
Stim Morane: no
Stim Morane: But the idea has been a money-maker for generations.
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Fefonz Quan: if it was RL we could have a group screening :)
Fefonz Quan: Are you this is a fale idea abused for profit Stim?
Fefonz Quan: you suggesting
Stim Morane: well, I'll stay neutral on this one
Sky Szimmer: it kind of fits into the PaB idea of our lives being like an illusion and that we are playing, no?
Stim Morane: your life doesn't have to be an illusion for it to be built out of choices, some of which are made on a very subtle, transitory level
Stim Morane: the point is simply that you can author your life
Stim Morane: within limits, of course
Fefonz Quan: can you explain a bit 'author' in what way?
Fefonz Quan: (asking also for language ignorance)
Stim Morane: each person stands in an authorial position with respect to her life
Stim Morane: life can be directed, and is being directed even when we think it isn't.
Stim Morane: This gets back to the importance of what you're doing in subtle ways with your own mindn.
Stim Morane: *mind
Sky Szimmer: what are the limits?
Stim Morane: I don't pretend to know, Sky.
Stim Morane: :)
Fefonz Quan: so not authored like controled (as a writer of a book does)?
Stim Morane: But I'm sure we are subject to many kinds of limits.
Stim Morane: Right, Fefonz, it's not totally a story we can contrive.
Stim Morane: Any contemplative tradition is concerned with "getting a grip" on a life which is otherwise out of control.
Stim Morane: The "secret" is hardly a secret.
Stim Morane: And in one form or another, this narrow form of it continues to make money (for its promoter), generation after generation.
Fefonz Quan: So it is proven fruitful :)
Stim Morane: :)
Tarmel Udimo: For some people its a revelation even if a narrow one, which is why it has an impact
Fefonz Quan nods
Stim Morane: Yes, I don't doubt that
Sky Szimmer: duty calls, got to run. see you all again.
Tarmel Udimo: it reminds the community there are other whys of being outside of the narrow confines we tend to live in
Fefonz Quan: bye Sky
Stim Morane: OK, thanks for dropping in
Qt Core: bye sky
Tarmel Udimo: bye Sky
Tarmel Udimo: I understand what you're saying Stim and agree
Tarmel Udimo: It does tell us that people are yearning for some 'spiritual' connection
Tarmel Udimo: which always surprises me
Fefonz Quan: why surprise Tarmel?
Stim Morane: Yes, or at least some hope for being able to get control
Tarmel Udimo: I should say outside of orthodox religion
Tarmel Udimo: not everyone is priviliged to hear the words we hear:)
sophia Placebo: hi genesis:)
Stim Morane: Hi gen!
Qt Core: hi geensis
Fefonz Quan: yes, but the yearning comes i believe from suffering and hard times, and then is quite common
Fefonz Quan: Hello Gen
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Stim!
Fefonz Quan: that
genesis Zhangsun: Hi everyone!
Tarmel Udimo: Hi gen
Stim Morane: brb
Tarmel Udimo: Hi gen, we've been talking about the secret - the DVD
genesis Zhangsun: ty Tarmel
genesis Zhangsun: a lot of buzz huh?
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: will give you the chat log:)
Stim Morane: back
Tarmel Udimo: WB Stim
Stim Morane: did i miss a secret?
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Stim Morane: Does kaju have opinions about this PaB stuff?
Tarmel Udimo: Oh Kaju is a Jedi master
Stim Morane: AH
Tarmel Udimo: she has been teaching me many Dragon secrets:)
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: in return for which you carry her around
Tarmel Udimo: exactly
Tarmel Udimo: Sh'es in control
Tarmel Udimo: working on her script so she can speak to humans
Stim Morane: yes. I think that is the case for every domestic parrot
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Tarmel Udimo: I was quite impacted by Pila's article that ws discussed in ways of knowing sesson
Stim Morane: say more?
Tarmel Udimo: It was about the Truth of who we are for those who were not there
Stim Morane: it was a good article ... I appreciated him taking the time to write and post it for us
Stim Morane: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/6Writi...ays/Satyagraha
Tarmel Udimo: It has made me really observe this idea
Tarmel Udimo: and what are lies and what are truths
Stim Morane: I'm sure he would be gratified to hear that
Tarmel Udimo: yes must remember to tell him
Tarmel Udimo: its made me realise how deeply ingrained half truths are
Tarmel Udimo: well not a full realization:)
Stim Morane: well it's definitely a point that's important to contemplative practice ... that everything we take for granted has a somewhat limited status
genesis Zhangsun: could you explain Stim?
Stim Morane: any feature of existence has a limited status ... it's not the bedrock we assume
Stim Morane: at least, this is the view of contemplative traditions, and presumaby of PaB too.
genesis Zhangsun: sorry I am little fuzzy today could you explain how this relates to being untruthful?
Stim Morane: Self and others, near and far, now and then … none of these are bedrock
Stim Morane: it's not so much a matter of being untruthful, as of being "limited"
Fefonz Quan: 'near and far, true and false'?
genesis Zhangsun: ah so not "lying" but not having the capacity to hold a larger truth?
sophia Placebo: limited tendency or cabibility to tell the truthe?
Stim Morane: yes, gen ... at least that's what I thought we were saying earlier. I might have misunderstood.
Stim Morane: But I see from your comment, sophia, and your, Fefonz, that there are other angles here too.
Stim Morane: Sorry, my own comment was itself "limited"
Stim Morane: :)
Tarmel Udimo: I guess for me it was impacting on a more personal level
sophia Placebo: ok so the truth in its self is not static and we have limitaions to know everything?
Tarmel Udimo: it was round actually once and for all actually taking on the precepts and not just thinking about them
Tarmel Udimo: Being truthful what ever that means
Tarmel Udimo: even if limited
Tarmel Udimo: we /I have so many ways of lying to onesself
Stim Morane: well, that was my intention, Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: so I have just been noticing how subtle these are
Stim Morane: it's easy to think about things without ever seeing into them, or taking them seriously
Tarmel Udimo: yes I took you point that day "very seriously" :)
Tarmel Udimo: *your
Stim Morane: and yes, sophia, I agree with your comments. We can't know everything and truth is not carved in concrete
Stim Morane: But we can become more aware of the ways in which we are living a lie, or even living in an ordinary way that seems true but in fact takes some things for granted which in fact could be opened up in some way.
Stim Morane: That much we can know, and can do ...
Tarmel Udimo: now I get the link:)
genesis Zhangsun: me too :)
Tarmel Udimo: it's not easy though
Stim Morane: what have you noticed, Tarmel?
Fefonz Quan: so comfortable to take things for granted sometimes
Tarmel Udimo: how one hides behind certain aspects of ways of being - that says this is Me
sophia Placebo: one can add too some words that keeps his saying within the truth span that others can see as if to say this is what i know or what im aware of or this is my opinion or my feelings , i think these words are part of telling the truth
sophia Placebo: everyone knows you dont know everything
Fefonz Quan agrees with Sophia
Tarmel Udimo: I think this goes beyond opnions or thoughts or all that
Tarmel Udimo: one continues to live the way one always does and says the things one always says
Tarmel Udimo: but in observing this I have started to see the holes
Stim Morane: good
Tarmel Udimo: and in fact none of it means much really
Stim Morane: :)
Tarmel Udimo: they allow us to function as we must
sophia Placebo: i see
Stim Morane: I think the simple pleasures in life have staying power ... unless they're in fact just bad habits.
Stim Morane: :)
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
genesis Zhangsun: [13:58] Tarmel Udimo: they allow us to function as we must
genesis Zhangsun: are you serious?
genesis Zhangsun: we must?
Tarmel Udimo: hummm I meant we have to contune functioning in the world
Tarmel Udimo: as it is
genesis Zhangsun: you mean with half truths?
Fefonz Quan: as there is no price to pay for the truth? i think there is a price there
Stim Morane: I'll have to duck out ... thanks for the chat!
Fefonz Quan: bye stim
genesis Zhangsun: bye Stim
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
sophia Placebo: bye stim
Qt Core: bye Stim
Stim Morane: bye everyone
Tarmel Udimo: bye Stim
Tarmel Udimo: no I meant it more simply, as one is observing and changing and trying to maintain our practise we still have to function in the wolrd
genesis Zhangsun: okay I understand
Tarmel Udimo: as we must unless we decide to be a total contemplative and get ourselves into a monastry:)
genesis Zhangsun: I thought you were concluding with the position of the "stranger" that started Pila's piece
Tarmel Udimo: which would be great!
Fefonz Quan: sure, in a way this functioninig is not seperable from teh practice
Qt Core: supposing we ever worked welkl in it ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: no not separate it is the prectise
Tarmel Udimo: practise
Fefonz Quan: merging the practice and the world maybe the real goal, not leaving one behind
genesis Zhangsun: yes agreed Fefonz
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: I am off to Storm's Play workshop
genesis Zhangsun: see you!
Fefonz Quan: bye Tarmel
genesis Zhangsun: I am out of here too
Tarmel Udimo: sorry to go, this has been a good discussion
genesis Zhangsun: bye!
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Tarmel, see you later
Fefonz Quan: yes it has :)
genesis Zhangsun: bye Fefonz, Tarmel, and Scathach
Fefonz Quan: bye Gen,
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen
Scathach Rhiadra: Bye Fefonz, QT, Namaste
Fefonz Quan: Namaste, Scath
Qt Core: bye Scath
Fefonz Quan: and bye, Qt
Qt Core: bye Fefonz