2009.05.26 13:00 - Meditation Blues

We get onto the subject of meditation. Funny how it can come in diferent disguises

Mickorod Renard: nice to see u back QT
Qt Core: ty, i'm most distracted these day, by RL or just laziness ;-)
Mickorod Renard: well, I am busy in rl too,,but here keeps me sane
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: some light relief
Qt Core: i know, i hate when i don't like the only things that would help
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I understood that QT,,but no worries
Qt Core: the most nervous/troubled you are the best meditation would be for you, but being nervous you cant't oe even won't do it
Mickorod Renard: ahhhh,,I see, yes a bit of a paradox
Gaya Ethaniel rummages her wardrobe ...
Qt Core: just an example, i don't meditate
Gaya Ethaniel: SL keeps you sane Mick?
Mickorod Renard: I dont meditate either..i am a bit to preoccupied
Mickorod Renard: well, its more sane on sl thn in my rl
Fortune Crystal: Why don't you both meditate? My question being what exactly does it mean to meditate?
Fortune Crystal: Is it supoosed to be hard or something?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: well, i suppose i do think about things very deeply,,which is meditating,,but i do not do formal meditation
Qt Core: don't thnk it would be so hard, i don't meditate in the same way i do not (anymore) go to the park walking or to the gym
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
Fortune Crystal: I see. got it
Mickorod Renard: yes, i do not find the time or the setting to meditate
Qt Core: i never really tried it, the most similar thing i ever did was some yoga
Qt Core: (if my english may sound a little strange, Fortune it is as i'm italian)
Fortune Crystal: You sound fine Qt
Mickorod Renard: Qt, your english is superb
Fortune Crystal: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... need to re-log, chat lines are missing brb
Qt Core: sometime some italian wordings slips in and may be misunderstood
Mickorod Renard: c u soon
Mickorod Renard: I read quite a bit,,and find I have dropped into some sort of meditation during sentences
Mickorod Renard: oops
Fortune Crystal: why can't being on SL be considered a form of meditation. I don't believe in formal meditation
Fortune Crystal: meditation makes you relax, so does SL
Mickorod Renard: yes, that is a good point..and I agree
sophia Placebo: greetings all
Fortune Crystal: Hi sophia
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Sophie
Qt Core: here and when chatting with a couple friends i notice long, nice silences there i find a calmness i like, may we call it meditation ?
Qt Core: hi sophia
Fortune Crystal: certainly, Qt

Gaya Ethaniel: Something wrong with SL for me today ...
Fortune Crystal: Qt, on SL there are also so called "meditaion groups" that gather together in serene looking lands and walk around or sit on a cushion and that is considered meditation on SL. So talking with friends and the silences there certainly count
Mickorod Renard: oww,,poor gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm on a green plain alone atm ... will stay put and read what comes up in the chat window.
Qt Core: and that is strange as often i find i've got some form of ADD and can't stay put (mentally speaking) for more than 30 sec
Mickorod Renard: ok Gaya
sophia Placebo: ADD?
Qt Core: attendion deficit disease
Fortune Crystal: I don't think that meditation has to be staying put. Meditation could be savoring a yummy piece of pie but concentrating on that pie and not five thousand other things as you are chewing :-)
sophia Placebo: ok
Mickorod Renard: defecit..not decease
Qt Core: ok, sorry
Mickorod Renard: sorry,,what is it Ara?
Mickorod Renard: disorder
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: your spelling is better than mine QT
Fortune Crystal: Does Attention Deficit Disorder really exist? Who said we are supposed to be still and quiet in life. There is lots of fun active things to do while we are still alive, why name a disease/disorder for something we do?
Fortune Crystal: just a thought
Qt Core: that is the problem, Fortune, i'm a multitasker at heart
arabella Ella nods to Fortune
arabella Ella: and today's culture makes us more adrenaline junkies somehow it seems to me
arabella Ella: the media being one culprit
Fortune Crystal: nodding
Qt Core: the cellphone is another ;-)
Fortune Crystal: :-)
arabella Ella: yes Qt my cellphone just went kaputt ... and i am lost without it
Qt Core: and email another
Mickorod Renard: that was a point I was making once,the stimulating overload of today
Fortune Crystal: elaborate please Mickrod, I like the topic
Mickorod Renard: i think our gadgets and sciences have ran ahead of our natural ability to take it in
Mickorod Renard: an inbalence in conciousness
sophia Placebo: intersting idea mick
arabella Ella: yes and as a result we have lost our natural contact with all that is natural

I suspect QT hopes AI will soon be able to take over the role of meditating for him

Qt Core: i agree...even if i'd like a wifi connection to wikipedia and google right in my brain ;-)
Mickorod Renard: and more
sophia Placebo: hehe qt
arabella Ella: we will have that soon Qt rest assured :)
Fortune Crystal: lol
Qt Core: (do you know the start of Hyperion by Simmons, i liked that)
Mickorod Renard: no?
arabella Ella: no
Fortune Crystal: no
Mickorod Renard: tell us more qt
Qt Core: it is a sf book and people has something like that, a connection to the internet in their head
arabella Ella: cool
Qt Core: the best use was direct democracy, you just have to connect to the "parliament website"
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Qt Core: to partecipate to the discussion and voting
arabella Ella: do u have the full title and name of author Qt pls?
Mickorod Renard: whats that illness,,turetts?
sophia Placebo: funny thing is re ara: when i first came to sl i joined a for fun only group and were testing all kinds of sl silliness and gestures in a -meditaiting sim - lol and poeple there were angery cause they went to that sim to -meditiate , at that time i wasnt sure about the sl meditaion concept , seems odd at that moment
sophia Placebo: sorry for inturrupt
Mickorod Renard: np
Fortune Crystal: no, I like your point Sophia. Is there etiquette on SL? You interrupted on SL but people interrupt all the time in RL when meditating or something else so why should they have cared so much. SL is RL after all
Mickorod Renard: its not like u block out others coms
Qt Core: first book : Hyperion by Dan Simmons (a series of four, there is time travel, some AI stuff and a lot of religion stuff (mostly in the less good sequels
sophia Placebo: sl is rl plus the mute button
Fortune Crystal: lol
Mickorod Renard: sounds good Qt
arabella Ella: thanks QT
arabella Ella: do u know the name of the AI one pls?
Qt Core: ?
Mickorod Renard: hyperion I think Ara
arabella Ella: i thought you said one of the dan simmons books is on artificial intelligence or did i misunderstand Qt?
Qt Core: in this book there are some AI involved
arabella Ella: ok ty
Mickorod Renard: not sure if Ai will ever get on a level playing ground with human

arabella Ella: but micko AI surpasses humans where memory is concerned ... recall
Qt Core: seeing movies and reading books more than a playing ground it will be a battle ground ;-)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,but on a thinking level
arabella Ella: and AI could easily complement our human capacities
arabella Ella: well ... that leads to the question ... what is thinking?
sophia Placebo: someone once said that if the robots and computers rule the world it would be much better place , cant really trust machiens to that level
Mickorod Renard: no arguement there
arabella Ella: and surely memory is part of thinking
Fortune Crystal: good question Ara

Mickorod Renard: I think the human mind works on a quantum level

Qt Core: AI as "agents" doing the boring part of intellectual works sound noce to me
Fortune Crystal: explain further please Microd
Qt Core: nice*
Mickorod Renard: multi universe
arabella Ella: yes Qt, cleaning, routine tasks, boring stuff ... would be brilliant
arabella Ella: but we already use our phones and laptops for memory storage
arabella Ella: and the web too
Mickorod Renard: well,,it creates future scenarios so as to make decisions and then runs back in time and chooses the likely best option

Qt Core: i was thinking more researching information, doint the low level math and such, Ara
sophia Placebo: agree qt and the dangerouse physical works too
Fortune Crystal: but once we store the things in memory, most of the time we forget we have it/forget to use it later
Mickorod Renard: the human mind creates multi universe scenarios every second,,picks one and then dumps the memory
sophia Placebo: arabella i guess we just replace the papers in case of storage memory card of laptop
Qt Core: another sf books very interesting about this AI/agent topic "Accelerando" by Charles Stross
arabella Ella: if you take memory ... just imagine how much help robots could be for people with dementia
Mickorod Renard: not sure it would Ara
arabella Ella: especially due to the age crises with more old people than young ones
Mickorod Renard: folks with dementia find it hard to relate to other people
arabella Ella: surely most of you remember the age of virtual pets when people even committed suicide when their vitual pet died
Fortune Crystal: so do normal memory people (finding hard to relate to other people)
arabella Ella nods

Someone go next door and tell that AI dog to be quiet, and watch you dont tread in any piles of nuts and bolts

sophia Placebo: vertual pets?
arabella Ella: yes
kenji Pookes: PEt rock
Mickorod Renard: true,,but its often a critical problem,,with carers and sufferers
arabella Ella: cant remember the name ... there was a brand name ... anyone remember it? my memory is ... going
arabella Ella: they were like small key chains with virtual pets
Mickorod Renard: erm
arabella Ella: tamagocci
Mickorod Renard: yes,,I had one
arabella Ella: got it
arabella Ella: japanese
Mickorod Renard: we had a diferent name
Mickorod Renard: like digimon
arabella Ella: of course micko u r brits ....
arabella Ella smiles
Mickorod Renard: grin
Qt Core: tamagoci even here in Italy
arabella Ella: yes
Qt Core: as a virtual pet i prefer a linux distro ;-)
arabella Ella: cool
Mickorod Renard: are u on linux qt,,now?
Qt Core: no, not now, have some graphic card [rrpblem with SL
Qt Core: on linux
Mickorod Renard: I see
Qt Core: cat't even write about it ;-)
Mickorod Renard: you wouldnt recomend it for sl then?
Qt Core: to someone with my exact setup no
Mickorod Renard: ;)

Ooops ,back onto meditation

Mickorod Renard: I am envious that so many here can focus during the day to do the meditation

sophia Placebo: in meditaion dont focus on focus
Mickorod Renard: like the bit that we are supposed to do..
Fortune Crystal: I agree with sophia, focus on being.
Mickorod Renard: so many seconds every 15 mins
Fortune Crystal: in the now
sophia Placebo: choose a nice spot , by nice i mean a place you feel like would sit in and warp on yourself
Mickorod Renard: hours go bye and I havnt even thought of anything except what i am doing
sophia Placebo: choose a time when the demands are to minimum
sophia Placebo: day or night
arabella Ella: mmmm i wish i could ...
Fortune Crystal: well, that is a form of meditation Mickrod. Now just switch to thing about what you are doing and also just happen to be doing something pleasurable
Qt Core: i'd like to be able to think only about what i'm doing at the moment, mick
sophia Placebo: nothing obligatory , not time nor place nor thoughts nor yourself
Mickorod Renard: mmmmmm,,i dream of that sometimes
sophia Placebo: hehe mick for real?
Mickorod Renard: especially the pleasurable bit
Fortune Crystal: dreaming is a nice reality break
Mickorod Renard: I used to long for the ability to not know what i was doing
Mickorod Renard: I think I must have made it a habit
arabella Ella: brings to mind Pink Floyd and comfortably numb?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Fortune Crystal: Perhaps, instead of knowing, one could focus on the feeling. Let the mind take a break and just be
Mickorod Renard: I seem to have formed an ability to run several lines of thought at the same time
Mickorod Renard: so i do a sort of dream, meditation whilst still doing other things
arabella Ella: do you think it is something we learn as a result of SL mick?
Fortune Crystal: good question
Mickorod Renard: no,,just out of a hectic life
arabella Ella: ok
Mickorod Renard: like when u drive long distance
arabella Ella: cos i think SL does help us to build the skill of multitasking even more somehow
Mickorod Renard: I have to aggree there
sophia Placebo: i find being out doors helpfull in bringing mind calmity
Mickorod Renard: agree
Fortune Crystal: I agree with Ara. In addition to multitasking, SL can really help you decide whether or not you want to interact with someone in RL, you really begin to wish there was a mute button.
arabella Ella nod
Mickorod Renard: yes, my main ability to take in calm and being,,is when i drive to work
Qt Core: the daily fight with traffic ?
Mickorod Renard: through lovely countryside
Mickorod Renard: and,,,i no longer worry about rush,,or time
Fortune Crystal: SL is very good about messing with one's concept of time. Unless one happens to live in california west coast time zone
Fortune Crystal: kind of freeing
Mickorod Renard: the tunnel vision of projection vanishes,,and the light floods in
Qt Core: timezones plus DST... quite a mess in stay in touch with peop;e and events
arabella Ella: why california Fortune?
arabella Ella: dont they have to work too :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,,and its light on sl and then u get up and its dark in rl
Fortune Crystal: isn't that the time that SL time is based on
Fortune Crystal: pacific standard time
arabella Ella: yes it is but it seems lots of ppl from other continents on line at different times too
sophia Placebo: i keep it midday all time in sl
Fortune Crystal: going off of Mickrod's comment of light and dark. I went outside once and was shocked to see moisture dropping from the sky. rain.
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: in RL u mean ... there is rain on SL too u know
Fortune Crystal: Rl yes
Fortune Crystal: never knew that
Fortune Crystal: were/ how is there rain
sophia Placebo: :)
arabella Ella: just like there is snow or mist or whatever
arabella Ella: a simulation
Qt Core: sometime in rl i feel i'm still in SL
Mickorod Renard: I have stood in it on sl,,but never found where i can buy it
Fortune Crystal: I agree with Qt
Fortune Crystal: but SL is RL afterall :-)
Qt Core: especially as since some months we have a new trolley service here in rl
arabella Ella: well if i may ask ... do you think SL is like a mirror to our real selves?
arabella Ella: or a curtain which hides our real selves?
Fortune Crystal: I think it is our real selves Ara
Qt Core: and i saw so many simulation of it in meetings fpr the public and it took so much time to build it that i think it still is virtual
Mickorod Renard: maybe more our real selves
Fortune Crystal: nod to Mickrod
arabella Ella nods
Qt Core: more a channel than a mirror
Fortune Crystal: nod to Qt
arabella Ella: a channel?
sophia Placebo: for me sl is like a magical door where you open to another world , close the door ,back to diffrent time dimension

OK,whos using a filter?

Mickorod Renard: it depends whether u choose to operate filters in sl,,like in rl
Mickorod Renard: if u drop the filter,,then u r more real
arabella Ella: filters ... like masks?
Fortune Crystal: good point Mickrod. I also agree with Sophia
Qt Core: a mirror it is something out of me, my avatar is part of me
Mickorod Renard: yea
arabella Ella: so do you feel your avatar is like a puppet on a string ... and you pull the strings?
Qt Core: more than a puppet
arabella Ella: say more pls if u could?
Mickorod Renard: I no longer think of my avi,,its a projection
Qt Core: same here mick
Fortune Crystal: I also think that my avatar is part of me
sophia Placebo: a never ending custom party :)
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: projection as in of me
arabella Ella: however i find SL like a mirror as i find i get to know myself ... my real self ... more as a result of my interactions with others here
Qt Core: it is not a full projection as for different "occasion" i may project different part of myself
Mickorod Renard: mmm?
arabella Ella: other people reveal aspects of myself to me
Mickorod Renard: yes?
arabella Ella: so it is like looking into a mirror
Mickorod Renard: say more Ara?
arabella Ella: i learn more about myself from my interactions with others here
Fortune Crystal: nice point ara. I get to learn about myself in terms of what rules do I follow in RL that are actually really not very beneficial to me etc
Mickorod Renard: I see Ara
arabella Ella: perhaps because it is easier to be honest when we are here ... i dunno
Fortune Crystal: yes, much easier to be honest. Ignore people not because you hate them or whatever but because you are having to much fun doing what you are doing to accomodate other people
Qt Core: yes, and sadlky i've more often discovered defects than good things about myself
arabella Ella: and about rules, Fortune ... it is interesting to see if our avi follows the same rules in SL as we do in RL ... or not ... and that says a lot about our real inner selves i feel
Fortune Crystal: me too Qt
Mickorod Renard: the chat log still puts pressure on people to filter their comments
arabella Ella: yes i dont like being on air myself
Qt Core: i usually think about that after, much after the session end
arabella Ella: but Qt u dont need to be so judgemental about yourself
sophia Placebo: arabella , dont you think so , jedgemntal about slef?
Qt Core: than i promise to filter myself more the next time... but luckily i forgot it before the next session starts ;-)
Mickorod Renard: if you do become judgemental,,you should see it as a good thing to be able to identify things and possibly address them
arabella Ella: i dont think we should be too judgemental about ourselves, i feel we need to be more flexible in our taking and often need to take things in our stride
sophia Placebo: exactly mick
Mickorod Renard: sl, in my opinion,,helps me to feel more relaxed about my weaknesses
sophia Placebo: too judgmental as in too obsssesive i agree arabella
Mickorod Renard: I am much better now with confidence than pre sl
Fortune Crystal: Often times I'll realize that I do something unusual on SL (go counter to a rule/habit that I have in RL) and then Ill try the unusual thing in RL and find nobody really even notices that I changed my action. so SL helps me find a "weakness" or whatever you call it, try it out on SL,try it out on RL and then learn from that.
Fortune Crystal: Me too, better with confidence in after starting SL
Mickorod Renard: thats a good point fortune
Mickorod Renard: about using sl as a platform for learning about urself
Mickorod Renard: in more ways than one

arabella Ella: so Fortune if i may ask are you in the USA or in Europe?

Fortune Crystal: USA
arabella Ella: ok
arabella Ella: i think i may speak for the rest of us ... all in europe

Qt Core: why ara, it is so nice to see everyone playing bongoes ;-)