2009.05.16 07:00 - no head and light

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

Lia Rikugun: hello eos
Lia Rikugun: have you been here before?
Lia Rikugun: oh yes
Lia Rikugun: you are a guardian ;)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Are we Being guardians?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I don't think I've met you here yet
Eos Amaterasu: before :-)
Lia Rikugun: I dont come so often
Lia Rikugun: i have my slot saturdays at 7
Lia Rikugun: i didnt have so much time coming to other sessions in the last time
Lia Rikugun: new appartment, new job...
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: lot to do
Eos Amaterasu: Real Livelihood

"on having no head"

Lia Rikugun: i started reading the book "on having no head"
Eos Amaterasu: ?
Lia Rikugun: and really appreciated reading it
Lia Rikugun: but only came to page 18
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Mickorod
Mickorod Renard: Hi
Lia Rikugun: hello mickorod
Mickorod Renard: Lia..have you still not read many pages?
Lia Rikugun: hehe no
Mickorod Renard: naughty
Lia Rikugun: i always need to pause
Lia Rikugun: and read again
Lia Rikugun: and try to feel the same
Lia Rikugun: this takes time ;)
Lia Rikugun: did you get the book mick?
Mickorod Renard: well, i need to get it,..but i am trying to get through neal stephensons latest book
Lia Rikugun: what is the title?
Mickorod Renard: thats an epic
Mickorod Renard: Anathum
Lia Rikugun: what is it talking about?
Mickorod Renard: but next will be no head or Stims book
Mickorod Renard: well, Anathum is a fiction
Lia Rikugun: ah ok
Mickorod Renard: although its quite philosophic it must be taken as a pinch of salt
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: i liked one idea in the no head book
Lia Rikugun: we have this expression
Mickorod Renard: yes,me too
Lia Rikugun: talking from face-to-face
Lia Rikugun: but actually it is only one face
Lia Rikugun: because you cannot see your own
Lia Rikugun: so somehow this is getting the other person into you
Lia Rikugun: you become him/her
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eos Amaterasu: the other one has your face
Lia Rikugun: exactly eos
Lia Rikugun: :)
Mickorod Renard: mmmm..not quite sure I understand
Lia Rikugun: it takes me so much time going through the book
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: maybe i can say it in my words
Lia Rikugun: or what i take out of that
Mickorod Renard: yes please
Lia Rikugun: hm
Lia Rikugun: let me think
Lia Rikugun: after reading the paragraphs
Lia Rikugun: i realize
Lia Rikugun: i have to be more open
Lia Rikugun: not so concentrated on my own thoughts
Lia Rikugun: which jump and circulate in my own head
Mickorod Renard: yea
Lia Rikugun: letting things in
Lia Rikugun: because this is what happens every day
Lia Rikugun: we make the distinction between "me" and the outside world
Eos Amaterasu: things happen but they don't get in your face
Lia Rikugun: but how can there be a distinction?
Mickorod Renard: yes, I think I can see where you are going
Lia Rikugun: :) i am not really sure where i am going :)
Mickorod Renard: I guess its trying to see yourself as a person in the outside world,,instead of the outside world being something alien
Lia Rikugun: you in the outside world and the outside world in you
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eos Amaterasu: you're in the world, but it's as much you as the skin or face or brain you think you are
Lia Rikugun: i dont think you can disconnect
Lia Rikugun: eos i am nit sure what you mean
Mickorod Renard: maybe shouldnt even disconnect
Eos Amaterasu: the world is just as perceived as I am
Mickorod Renard: perhaps that disconnecting is the mistake we make
Eos Amaterasu: freezing of the play
Lia Rikugun: nono i meant you cannot disconnect and just choose one of the both expression you in the outside world and the outside world in you
Eos Amaterasu: is disconnect?

appreciating the presence of appearances

Mickorod Renard: freezing the play I think would be useful exercise
Lia Rikugun: how do we do that?
Mickorod Renard: to have time to observe
Mickorod Renard: well, I dont know if its recomendable,,just me thinking
Mickorod Renard: I suppose I am relating to the usual mode of existance where we get rushed along in the crazyness of daily routine
Eos Amaterasu: just stopping, for 9 sec
Mickorod Renard: but we should stop and observe more often
Lia Rikugun: i try to see everything as appearances
Lia Rikugun: but i have to remind myself
Mickorod Renard: that is a nice thought
Lia Rikugun: in daily life
Lia Rikugun: pema always says this
Lia Rikugun: and somehow it is difficult to try to do this all the time
Lia Rikugun: but it works easier now than for example 6 months ago
Lia Rikugun: so thats great ;)
Lia Rikugun: sometimes when i am walking
Mickorod Renard: sorry, he says what?
Lia Rikugun: to see everything as appearances
Mickorod Renard: ahh ok
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Lia Rikugun: or appreaciate the presence of appearances
Mickorod Renard: yes
Lia Rikugun: hello friedrich
Mickorod Renard: I am doing it whilst I drive to and fro work
Mickorod Renard: Hi Fred

Friedrich was one of the first PaB-ers

Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi mick
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Friedrich
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: so, i don't know any of you...
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, believe it or not, i was at the very first PaB
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: last April1
Lia Rikugun: oh really
Lia Rikugun: wow
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and played all of last summer...
Mickorod Renard: cool
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, got really busy w/ school in the fall and spring
Mickorod Renard: so you do not need all the handout cards etc?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and am thinking about returning for this summer vacation
Lia Rikugun: and now you are back!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, am i being recorded?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ;-)
Lia Rikugun: yes you are
Mickorod Renard: yes
Lia Rikugun: is this ok?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: of course
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i just was around for the monumental effort of getting the recording set up
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: wasnt sure if it was done
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: anyways... what are you all taling about. sorry i am late. 10am?
Lia Rikugun: 7am :)
Eos Amaterasu: having no face
Lia Rikugun: SL time
Lia Rikugun: having no head
Mickorod Renard: yes,,we also have the fountain that turns into mist to ask us to be qiuet for contemplatio for a few seconds
Lia Rikugun: no nose
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eos Amaterasu: we do have the sounds and the water before us :-)

the mode of having no head and the feeling you get from it: opening up, getting a feeling of light

Mickorod Renard: I know that when I switch into that mode,,I do feel like light enters into my head
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: very peaceful and beautiful here
Eos Amaterasu: almost midsummer night's dream
Lia Rikugun: what mode mick?
Mickorod Renard: the mode of no head
Mickorod Renard: or at least without a top to my head
Mickorod Renard: almost feels like I am airating my brain
Lia Rikugun: this is amazing, I am not sure if I really get the whole idea
Lia Rikugun: how to get into that mode
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I do it right, or if its my imagination,,but I am happy so far
Lia Rikugun: :)
Mickorod Renard: much of it for me is getting rid of focussing on all the noise that is usually going around my thoughts
Lia Rikugun: exactly this si very difficult
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eos Amaterasu: the noise has momentum
Mickorod Renard: once done, you can then open up to allowing things around you to enter, like appearance
Eos Amaterasu: noticeable in the 9 secs gaps
Lia Rikugun: yes yes opening up
Mickorod Renard: and in that opening up, comes a feeling of light
Eos Amaterasu: appearance presencing from openness, yes, feels illumined
Eos Amaterasu: the 9 secs is a nice trick, .... , something you come or see from that

 the book "finite infinite games"

Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i just came across a book recently that reminded me of this project. i haven't read it yet, but i want to this summer
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: http://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinit.../dp/0345341848
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Lia Rikugun: wow sounds interesting
Lia Rikugun: I am sorry i will have to leave
Lia Rikugun: have a nice week end you all!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, it was nice meeting you
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hope to see you around, Lia
Lia Rikugun: yes likewise
Eos Amaterasu: I also must leave, thanks everyone!
Lia Rikugun: was really nice to talk to you
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sorry i missed the session

I had to leave at this moment and will not try to comment on the discussion

Mickorod Renard: i think I can describe my feeling, from the point of light through a camera apperture, like an iris opening up,,one always has light entering,,but when opening up(like with an iris) one can be more perceptive to things usually outside of the range
Mickorod Renard: its ok,,we have pleanty more
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ha ha
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: where are oyu from mickorod?
Mickorod Renard: do you still get the mail to say when things are on?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: SL mail?
Mickorod Renard: I am from the Uk
Mickorod Renard: well,,google group mail
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i was on the gaurdian list, but i got kicked off for not showing up for a while
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: crummy policy, if you ask me
Mickorod Renard: well,,maybe u need to ask to rejoin
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i didn't mind lurnking, and i wasn't bothering anyone
Mickorod Renard: the policy may have reasons
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: probably.
Mickorod Renard: for example,,a gaurdian has an oportunity to claim land here
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: so?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i would have waived that, if asked
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i don't want land here right now
Mickorod Renard: well, I guess if everyone showed up once or twice and claimed land it would be unfair for those more regular
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: or, why shouldn't i be entitled to land either?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh, i showed up more than once or twice
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: though i never permanantly manned a post
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but i subbed
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: substitute gaurdian
Mickorod Renard: well, I was just tryin to show that there are considerations to why there may be policies
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that could have been my title
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sure
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: doesn't make htem any less crummy ;-)
Mickorod Renard: not everyone is as honest as you perhaps
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: s'ok. i'm over it.
Mickorod Renard: cool
Mickorod Renard: do you visit the kira sessions?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that apeture feeling, that is from the 9 second practice?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: um, haven't been there yet.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you have the landmakr?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i seriously haven't been inside SL in months
Mickorod Renard: the aperture feeling is more from my personal time
Mickorod Renard: I never really get into the 9 seconds
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: interesting.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: is that still hte core of hte practice here?
Mickorod Renard: we have deviated into other themes too,,but when Pema is here we tend to focus on Being
Mickorod Renard: Being as in 'Being'
Mickorod Renard: he he
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: nice. you know, i think i will hit that workshop at kira
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: please, sir.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh wait, is that now?
Mickorod Renard: but we also do time and dreams and even delve into ethic and theology through the back door
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i've had one of those months
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: time, waking dreams (or dreamlike states while awake), being, the works
Mickorod Renard: yep,,thats the stuff
Mickorod Renard: and of course 'phenemology'
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh, it felt exhilirating
Mickorod Renard: well, not sure if you are joking..he he
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: never can tell in here, heh?
Mickorod Renard: grin
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, here's a hint: I try my best to never lie
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: which, i suppose is not identical with honesty
Mickorod Renard: yea,,thats an interesting point
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, generally speaking, my insides are viewable from outside
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what is your background?
Mickorod Renard: lol,,that wud take a long time
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh - sorry, i forgot how this world works. i haven't even right-clicked you
Mickorod Renard: i am in design and technology at the moment,,but I am not young and have a mixed history
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ah. an alchemist.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: me too.
Mickorod Renard: grin,,I soppose on the periphery of ,yes
Mickorod Renard: great
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i work in educational technology
Mickorod Renard: cool,,me too
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and am also working on a phd in communications
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sweet.
Mickorod Renard: interesting
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: are you an NMC'er?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (New Media Consortium)
Mickorod Renard: no
Mickorod Renard: I am just plain old me
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: true dat.
Mickorod Renard: I work at a college
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: at least, for now.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: tomorrow you'll be someone else
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: we all will
Mickorod Renard: grin
Mickorod Renard: wherabouts are you from?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i told you - my insides express themselves publically
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: check out the shirt
Mickorod Renard: a ha
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: the statue of liberty gave it to me, but i am not just a tourist
Mickorod Renard: sussed
Mickorod Renard: do you know Pema then?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not well
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but yes
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i learned about PaB at a talk he gave up at Columbia U
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: before this began last year
Mickorod Renard: great
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: it was at a science and religion conf, on free will or something
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i didn't attend the conf
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, i knew pema's name, from college reading
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i took a class w/ a philosopher who used to dialogue w/ pema often
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and we read some of their dialogues
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: so, when i saw pema's name on the program, i made sure to check it out
Mickorod Renard: he is working in Japan at the moment so he is on a diferent time zone than we usually meet him on
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: right. half a year there, or more...
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: he is amazing.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: his wife is a notable sociologist at the new school also
Mickorod Renard: yes, I dont know how he can spend the time on here with his rl commitments
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, i think the institue for advanced study is a special place ;-)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: kinda like The Village, in the prisoner, at least from afar
Mickorod Renard: grin,,thats a good way of putting it
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i wonder if they effectively neutralize most of hte brillance that ends up there...
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not pema, but i think its odd, being that smart and not teaching
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: maybe that's just me
Mickorod Renard: I have mused over this too,,not about Pema, but about where everyone goes
Mickorod Renard: they seem to move from one project to another and then ,,I dunno
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: you mean who? avatars here in SL? Gaurdians? Humans? Professors? im confused?
Mickorod Renard: sorry, Humans/professors
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, for sure. and it does seem as if the institutions, like many other industrial era information production systms, are in a state of, err, flux
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: wow
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: irridescent
Mickorod Renard: he he ..well,,i think the whole world is in a state of flux at the mom,,
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heck - swine virus has bred w/ avian flu....
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that means that pigs are flying, right?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (ba-da-bump)
Mickorod Renard: yea,,and we may get poo on our heads yet
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. but at least all those debts will be cleared up
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but yeah, i had some friends looking for prof jobs this year - it was really tough
Mickorod Renard: I think jobs are gonna be tough to find in any sector,,best hang onto what we got
Mickorod Renard: hope it sorts itself out
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i'm indentured for the better part of hte next decade, so i'm not going anywhere
Mickorod Renard: thats handy
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: of course it will sort itself out. i just hope it sorts itself out /quickly/ ;-) I'm very impatient
Mickorod Renard: me too
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I will have to leave
Mickorod Renard: got rl calling
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yup. cool meeting you.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,you must come back..or to kira
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: can you give me the kira landmark pls?
Mickorod Renard: sure
Mickorod Renard: ok matey