2009.05.23 19:00 - Brahmamuhurta, Samadhi, Vipassana

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The paragraphs were placed by SophiaSharon Larnia.

SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Buddha
buddha Nirvana: Hello Sophia:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema couldn't be here tonight
buddha Nirvana: :)
buddha Nirvana: Pila:) Hello
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi buddha and SophiaSharon
Pila Mulligan: very slow (laggy) toda it seems
SophiaSharon Larnia: weekend?
buddha Nirvana: yes, i've had that. have been a cloud here and there
Pila Mulligan: probably
Pila Mulligan: it's taking about 10-15 seconds for me to see what I type appear in the chat
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too pila
Pila Mulligan: oh, well, think how much time it would take if we were doing it by postal mail
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
buddha Nirvana: :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: it seems my 90 seconds of silence extends to hours, very welcome now :))
Pila Mulligan: "Stillness and tranquillity set things in order in the universe" Tao Te Ching
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I worked in my yard for 5 hours today and wore myself out :))
Pila Mulligan: feels good, though, I imagine
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, every now and the sunlight would hit me a certain way and i would pause
SophiaSharon Larnia: and listen
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: like there are 2 people doing the work
SophiaSharon Larnia: one acting one listening
Pila Mulligan: I was going to have a similar day but the two young kids from next door came over to show me their new puppy
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: so the day went at the pace of an old guy, two kids and a puppy :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: catching, that kind of exurberance :))
Pila Mulligan: a puppy is an especially clean mirror of reality, it seems
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that is a lovely
Pila Mulligan: what RL time is now where you are SophiaSharon and Buddha? -- it is 4:30 pm here
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is 10:30 pm here on the east coast, usa :))
Pila Mulligan: ah, not so late then
SophiaSharon Larnia: youy are in Hawaii ?
Pila Mulligan: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: very nice
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you always lived there?
Pila Mulligan: since 1985
SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope to go someday
buddha Nirvana: 03:37am here

Pila Mulligan: Buddha, you must be a night person
SophiaSharon Larnia: Where are you, Buddha?
buddha Nirvana: yea... i dont sleep much these days
buddha Nirvana: In thU.K
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
buddha Nirvana: the U.K*
Pila Mulligan: I like to get up at 4:00 am to meditate, it seems to be the best time for stillness all around
SophiaSharon Larnia: I love dawn, it is my favorite time of the day
buddha Nirvana: very nice pila, yes. the mind suprising alert too
Pila Mulligan: someone told me there is actually a name for that time in India, related to meditation
Pila Mulligan: stillness before the dawn
buddha Nirvana: the retreat that i go to, they sound the 1st bell at 4am for the days first meditation, its nice o meditate in a half dream state
Pila Mulligan: (that's not the nanme, just ruminating:)
buddha Nirvana: ah:)
Pila Mulligan: yes, it is
Pila Mulligan: it is also interesting to meditate in a dream
Pila Mulligan: but it seems dificult to maintain
buddha Nirvana: yes, the mind seems elusive
buddha Nirvana: here we go:
buddha Nirvana: Brahmamuhurta (the time of God):
Pila Mulligan: must have soemthing to do with getting relaxed when you are already sleeping :)
buddha Nirvana: :))
Pila Mulligan: what is Brahmamuhurta , Buddha?
buddha Nirvana: i just looked it up, its the name of the 3am-6am meditation
Pila Mulligan: oh, thanks :)
buddha Nirvana: 4-6*
Pila Mulligan: very nice
buddha Nirvana: yes, first time ive heard of it, thanks
Pila Mulligan: how did you find it, may i ask?
buddha Nirvana: i googled:)
Pila Mulligan: oh ... yes, there is a God
Pila Mulligan: its name is Goggle
Pila Mulligan: all-knowing
Pila Mulligan: instant repsonse
SophiaSharon Larnia laughs
Pila Mulligan: sorry if it sounds offensive :)
Pila Mulligan: but Google is remarkable to me
buddha Nirvana: lol

buddha Nirvana: heres more: our sages and saints have eulogised the benefits of waking up early in the morning, before 4 am. This time 4 am - 6 am is called Brahmamuhurta (the time of God): it is the best time for entering into deep meditation (thoughtless awareness) and Samadhi.
buddha Nirvana: = http://osdir.com/ml/politics.parties.../msg00002.html
buddha Nirvana: thats funny, how we can be unaware of a principle but share the sentiment... perhaps its because its valid
Pila Mulligan: yep
buddha Nirvana: my particular practice is based on samadhi, and the description is spot on
Pila Mulligan: that's how some practices can be largely self-teaching
SophiaSharon Larnia: we become aware of the same things but call it by different words
SophiaSharon Larnia: can you explain that more, Buddha?
buddha Nirvana: sure, but something as personal as meditation - we can appreciate the accuracy more perhaps?
buddha Nirvana: samadhi?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
buddha Nirvana: sure
buddha Nirvana: my practice of it, vipassana, is wjere you focus the mind on something... for example first breathing - the mind becomes still and calm and you are ready to practice vipassana
buddha Nirvana: but ut basicly means concentration
buddha Nirvana: its the desired state of mind once looks to achieve before the insight work
buddha Nirvana: one*
Pila Mulligan: do you know of any relationship between vipassana and kriya?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry if I use an awkward description, but is Samadhi a practice that helps to see past our distracting, earthly thoughts
buddha Nirvana: i've heard of kriya pila, but never looked into it in much depth, i wouldnt know of any comparisons
Pila Mulligan: I notice in an artcile from Google that vipasanna involves "observing the sensations within the body"
buddha Nirvana: kind of sophia, its really about subdueing the mind - for thoughts cease entirely, worldly or otherwise
buddha Nirvana: thats right pila, thats it entirely
buddha Nirvana: i think ive mentioned it here a few times
Pila Mulligan: to me that is really the best part of meditation
Pila Mulligan: observing the sensations within the body
buddha Nirvana: yes, they are the only things we can truely experience
buddha Nirvana: its actually the technique buddha used
buddha Nirvana: and luckily its been passed on in its purest form
Pila Mulligan: Kriyas are the spontaneous movements of the body
Pila Mulligan: Paramahansa Yogananda wrote about it
Pila Mulligan: it is a similar approach
buddha Nirvana: and you are to be aware of those movements?
Pila Mulligan: but it also involves observations of kriya in all contexts, not just meditation
Pila Mulligan: yes, awareness is the idea
buddha Nirvana: so kriya manifests internally and externally, and you are to observe both?
Pila Mulligan: that it my take on it -- like everything there are different schools
Pila Mulligan: my practice is Chinese, but all of these things relate to the same expereince
Pila Mulligan: and as you said earlier, e can be unaware of a principle but share the sentiment
buddha Nirvana: :)

buddha Nirvana: in my experience it was a fairly hard technique to observe at first
SophiaSharon Larnia: what helped you through that?
Pila Mulligan: yes, I agree Buddha, it is hard at first
buddha Nirvana: my 1st 10 day retreat back when i was 21, i was forced to observe sensations that were quite overwhelming
buddha Nirvana: by the seventh day i was quite a state :)
SophiaSharon Larnia nods
buddha Nirvana: it helped to miss a few sittings
buddha Nirvana: to entertain trivial thoughts for a while, familiarity i guess
Pila Mulligan: balancing the old with the new
buddha Nirvana: yea, finding a middle way
buddha Nirvana: i may have had an outer body experience, it felt like that at one point
Pila Mulligan: that could be very intense
buddha Nirvana: the teacher put it down to imagination
buddha Nirvana: yes, its 12 hours of meditation daily
buddha Nirvana: and your following noble silence too
Pila Mulligan: and you've continued the practice since then?
buddha Nirvana: yes, its a technique you can sit down to intentionally observe or one you can observe in daily life
buddha Nirvana: at work, play ... your always in your body
Pila Mulligan: do you meditate daily as well?
buddha Nirvana: i do yes
buddha Nirvana: i take sitting here at the buddha center mon-fri
buddha Nirvana: and also offline
Pila Mulligan: my practice also has been daily, but less intense than the retreat you described
buddha Nirvana: sure, that kind of practice can be hard to sustain.. but its relative i think. the long european long course center has opened here in the UK and will cater for 60 - 90 day courses
buddha Nirvana: of the same intensity
Pila Mulligan: by observing the sensations within the body you seem to become more aware of how things work, generally
buddha Nirvana: yes
buddha Nirvana: it gives you direct insight of how you may react to certain causes
buddha Nirvana: and further more gives you the ability to not react
Pila Mulligan: and how there are often physical reasons for what we feel and think
buddha Nirvana: yea, the premis is that there is no body mind duality
Pila Mulligan: the big lesson from my practice has been that most of what we think of as mental is actually physical -- muscles, etc
buddha Nirvana: sure
buddha Nirvana: the technique has been researched and proven that as a by product inteligence improved vastly in people who started the practice
Pila Mulligan: interesting
buddha Nirvana: i think thats down to enabling longer spells of concentration
buddha Nirvana: and i guess that could apply to any practice, or form of concentration
Pila Mulligan: this is why the cobbler can reach nirvana
buddha Nirvana: that it stills the mind and allows it to become more able to ..do things lol
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
buddha Nirvana: yea, and most likely is better equipped
Pila Mulligan: well, an expereinced cobbler probably finds satisfaction sitting at work for ten hours
buddha Nirvana: :))
Pila Mulligan: and part of the satisfaction no doubts relates to the breathing and the contemplation of the art
Pila Mulligan: and proably also to observing the sensations within the body at some times
buddha Nirvana: :))
buddha Nirvana: i think we all do it, but perhaps only when we feel intense pain, or joy, lust
buddha Nirvana: any extreme sensation
Pila Mulligan: yes, but I tihnk people also gradually accumulate insights from uniintentionally observing the sensations within the body
buddha Nirvana: yes
Pila Mulligan: even the less intense sensationssmalle rones
Pila Mulligan: or smaller ones*
Pila Mulligan: bad typing :)
buddha Nirvana: its funny, i can remember how i use to gather insights
buddha Nirvana: even directly after the 1st course
buddha Nirvana: as if i had done some hardware re-wiring
Pila Mulligan: if i understand the meatphor, you probably did
buddha Nirvana: i thnk my insights in the main came from the thought process them self
buddha Nirvana: prior, i mean
Pila Mulligan: oh, I see
buddha Nirvana: thinking my way into things
buddha Nirvana: its hard to imagine, even after attending a few courses, what it would be like to undergo a 60-90 day course

Pila Mulligan: hi Fortune and Kenji
buddha Nirvana: hello fortune, kenji:)
kenji Pookes: Hello everyone.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Kenji
SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you attended a play as being group before Kenji?
kenji Pookes: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok :))
Pila Mulligan: Buddha has been describing some of his intense vipassana expereinces
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Fortune
Fortune Crystal: Hi
Pila Mulligan: and observing the sensations within the body
Pila Mulligan: kenji has been discussing cultural infufences here before, and vipassana seems to qualify as a culutre :)
Pila Mulligan: influ*ences
kenji Pookes: What is vipassana
buddha Nirvana: i must go. be well everyone:)
Pila Mulligan: bye Buddha
kenji Pookes: Bye
buddha Nirvana: www.dhamma.org would be a useful resource to understaind Vipassana
buddha Nirvana: nite:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Fortune I gave you a notecard, we record our sessions, is this okay that you are included?
Fortune Crystal: It is fine with me that we are recorded.
Pila Mulligan: chat logs are posted here : http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go too, have a great night, or day!!!
Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon, nice to see you
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!
kenji Pookes: Bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: Kenji, did you and Fortune arrive here at the same time just now by coincidence?
kenji Pookes: yes
Fortune Crystal: pure coincidence
Pila Mulligan: well, good timing -- thank you
Fortune Crystal: Well, I am going to take a look around this place and check out the info on the notecard. Peace and joy to you all.
Pila Mulligan: nice ot meet you -- see you next time
kenji Pookes: Afraid sleep deprevation is getting to me--eyes are closing. I think I'll take off. See you later Pila.
Pila Mulligan: ok, bye Kenji, see oyu later