2009.05.18 19:00 - Why preserve "historic" sites and buildings?

The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.

Threedee Shepherd: Hio Corvi & steve
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Three, Steve.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Whatcha thinkin' Steve, Three?
Threedee Shepherd: Steve, I am about half way through reading the Tao of architecture
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve a continuing seminar tomarrow and I'm just etting my paperwork together, thought I's stop by to listen to stimulating conversations while I work....grin
Corvuscorva Nightfire: rolls my eyes and throws a pillow at Steve.
stevenaia Michinaga: you are father into it that I ahve had time for, but what I did read was interesting thus far
stevenaia Michinaga: farther
stevenaia Michinaga: it is not a quick read
Threedee Shepherd: yes, he is strong on empty space as a design feature
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I thiught youmight like that
stevenaia Michinaga: there is much to say about what the vessal holds
Threedee Shepherd: What impressed me most was that I could get a book published in the mid-50s and out of print in 2 days used in great condition
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
stevenaia Michinaga: the space, the light, the heat
Threedee Shepherd: Yes I do like the ways he deals with space
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve a 1981 paperback printing
Threedee Shepherd: I must admit that there are sentences (perhaps even paragraphs) where the words make syntactic sense and I hoave only a dim idea of what he is saying ;>
stevenaia Michinaga: considering it's "only" 72 pages weghty pages
Threedee Shepherd: indeed
Corvuscorva Nightfire: only 72 pages?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is such a slim book, then.
Threedee Shepherd: What is your seminar about?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: histoic preservation, I am an alternate on a local historic district commission, so the feel I need to be informed
Threedee Shepherd: Yes Covri, I think he subscribes to the idea that if you have nothing more to say, do so.
stevenaia Michinaga: infortunately it means I must be out of the house at 6:30
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!
Threedee Shepherd: To be out at 6:30 I find it almost as easy to stay up all night.
stevenaia Michinaga: some kindly soul will be driving us the 90 minutes to get there and back
Threedee Shepherd: Why do morning people always get to set meeting times ;>
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s about a 6 hour seminar, I jsut bought a car charge for mycomputer, considered getting work done on the road
Threedee Shepherd: Personally, I would sleep
stevenaia Michinaga: and my officemate who will be joining us usually gets up at 9:30, she is not a morning person either
stevenaia Michinaga: and he has "issues" with the drive from the city who is also on the commission
stevenaia Michinaga: she has issues
Threedee Shepherd: So, there was recently an interesting historic preservation issue here in boulder, where historic preservation is BIG.
stevenaia Michinaga: as it should be
Threedee Shepherd: The question was whether a regular old house from the 1930s was worth preserving, even though it was totally non-special, which is "said some" what was now special about it.
Threedee Shepherd: hiya ig pink bunny Hug
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, specialness could be how ordinary it is
Peer Infinity: hi everyone :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello peer
stevenaia Michinaga: thre was an interesting case in ENgland where fail public housing was considered historic for that reason
stevenaia Michinaga: so not sure what the decision was in the end, keep it or remove it
Threedee Shepherd: oh dear! I think people can gt out of hand on this kind of thing
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes
stevenaia Michinaga: but each side's opinion matters to someone
stevenaia Michinaga: and usually it;s the developer who contributes to the politicals who matters
Threedee Shepherd: That too
Threedee Shepherd: My question to you is: Are there principles of a general nature that should ground such decisions?
stevenaia Michinaga: oh yes, and they generally disagree
Threedee Shepherd: Is there ANY rational way in?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: between need and history?
stevenaia Michinaga: there is certainly many situatiosn where it;s black and white
Corvuscorva Nightfire: are there, really?
stevenaia Michinaga: but many where it depends on many smaller factors
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean.I guess you'd preserve the whitehouse no matter what...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: despite condition and need...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: right?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, famouse architect or famous building or important histoical event happened there
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is famous enough?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: important enough?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: condition of the buildiing counts, right?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and what you need to build there.
stevenaia Michinaga: I was giving an example of criteria
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah but..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: famous is a sliding scale?
stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse, like the buidling in england
stevenaia Michinaga: famous for its failure
stevenaia Michinaga: but success on an architectural level to sime
stevenaia Michinaga: some
stevenaia Michinaga: things get interesting the grayer the points are
stevenaia Michinaga: when the absolutes dissappear
Threedee Shepherd: There must be some kinds of thresholds, or everything would e saved?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i bet it's a matrix of criteria?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, each dependant on the situation at hand
Threedee Shepherd: OK, let's turn it around. Why *preserve* ANY building?
stevenaia Michinaga: civic and social continuity matter
Corvuscorva Nightfire: because it gives you a more sensual experience of the moments which where lived in it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: than one can get from simply hearing the story.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so one thing important is the value of that story to the community.
stevenaia Michinaga: that to, which is why places where histoical even occure make the place important, like Gettesburg
Threedee Shepherd: Well to paraphrase some guy, once you've seen one Williamsburg, you've seen em all.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: how important is THIS story to this community might include...how many similar stories re there...preserved already?
stevenaia Michinaga: no
stevenaia Michinaga: one may be all that is importnat
stevenaia Michinaga: and how the story is framed may be more important than it really is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah..if there are thirty williamsburgs already..then do we need another colonial story?
stevenaia Michinaga: so you can tip the scales
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: with a vision? A new version of the story?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello fear
stevenaia Michinaga: not a new version, bit an enhanced version
Threedee Shepherd: Hmm, I now wonder just what happened when I went to Williamsburg as a child or about 12? Was it real to me, or just another museum of sorts.
stevenaia Michinaga: do you remember?
Threedee Shepherd: Hello, fear, we are a group that meets daily and discusses reality or unreality and everything in between.
Threedee Shepherd: I remember every door and bed was small by adult standards
stevenaia Michinaga: aww, second day in SL, welcome
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: but so were you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I remember that, too.
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve never been there but ahve several books on it;s restoration
Threedee Shepherd: I think reading the "Federalist Papers" made more of a lasting impression on me than seeing Williamsburg or Mt. Vernon. Perhaps I am too cerebral
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the thing about Willamsburg and other similar spots for me..was the stories about the community it took to support it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: seeing the places each person tucked into to sleep..and the work they did to live.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, living communites portrated in history offer a better perspective than reading about it
Threedee Shepherd: stories are pivotal. I agree and if th place provides a context available no ther way then it can matter
stevenaia Michinaga: liek a movie
stevenaia Michinaga: cept you can ask questions
stevenaia Michinaga: of the actors
Threedee Shepherd: So lets get the filmmakers and model makers to do a great film and then tear the damn building down
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ha!
stevenaia Michinaga: here that would be not appreciating, but interacting with...appearance
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well..its different to touch the walls than to see the film.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: to stand in a space is different..the scale for instance...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: how would you have known that bed was too small?
Threedee Shepherd: If modern civilization does not self-destruct, in 100-years you will be able to experience that without going there.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: until then
Threedee Shepherd: Actually, does it matter that I did. I learned about the changes in body stature due to improved health and nutrition in many other ways.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: I am aways amazed at what prediction do not come true, and which do, they are always more random then you ever thought
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smoke
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I remeber smoke at one one of those tours..in the kitchen
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heat
stevenaia Michinaga: like facebook, SL, very recent
Threedee Shepherd: of course, Steve, just llok back at 1950s Popular Mechanics
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: there are alot of sensory experiences to capture..the buildings are like primary documents or original research.
Threedee Shepherd: So, in taking parts of both sides to stand on, I am looking for pattern and balance in the context of competing pragmatic needs
stevenaia Michinaga: were you at Adam's talk on sunday?
Threedee Shepherd: When my grandparents and other early 1900s immigrants left the "old country" did they give much care of thought to the buildings they left behind?
Threedee Shepherd: me, no
Threedee Shepherd: I guess, to sum up this conversation, I have the usual kneejerk reaction that preservation and understanding of cultural evolution is a *good thing*. And, I then step back and am trying to have a second look....
stevenaia Michinaga: it should outlast the individual
stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to go
Threedee Shepherd: same here. sleep fast